Wright writes.....

[New Haven Neil]

Hi Martin

 

As far as I am aware D5578 was the only blue Brush type 2 before the advent of Corporate Blue. I have been told Tri-ang got it right by painting the white stripes on it, no photos have yet raised their head to prove it and that Tri-ang got it right by painting the cab white, again lack of photos to prove it. I have seen photos of it in green livery, which it was painted into on its first major overhaul, and later in Corporate Blue when it received its English Electric engine. I am happy to keep an open mind on the white stripes and the white cab windows but until I see photos of either livery my model stays as it is.

 

I wish I could recall where I read it, but I have seen in print that the Triang version with the white stripes and roof is a neverwozzer (cue language police), and the all blue one shouldn't have had the cab windows painted - IIRC they weren't white but a very pale blue - either.  It (edit - the prototype, not the model) did however get small yellow panels as you depict correctly in your model.

Edited September 22, 2017 by New Haven Neil

[Richard E]

Now D5578 has been discussed on here before and some pictures were linked in post #7, the conclusion is overall blue and that it never had white window surrounds - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/14297-class-31-d5578-in-experimental-blue/

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tony

 

Could your observation of the people who are railway modellers of a certain age liking locomotives of the 1950s be because they are the ones who stop at your demo stand and chat? The ones who are into diesels stop four tables down and chat to the DEMU lads and those who model different gauges and scales do so at their points of interest.

 

Are model railway clubs a thing of the past? Are interwebthingy sites like this the future clubs?

 

I can understand clubs reluctance to look after other peoples kids for a host of reasons. Back in the early 80s when I joined the Witham club we had a rule regarding under 16 membership, anyone under 16 had to be accompanied by a parent.

 

As I have said before let us enjoy our hobby now and let the future sort its self out.

 

Back to getting kids interested in railways, my eldest was until uni.

My youngest only ever wanted to kick a football about, don't know why I never did. 

Or was it in his genes, my brother had interest form some big clubs when he was young but too many injuries playing non league football put pay to that. He use to play football indoors when Mum went out. 

My Granddad played for the RAF between WW1 and WW2.

My Dad's two brothers, Charlie has an MBE for his work with youth football, and John had a Saturday job with Chelsea.

Still no idea why my youngest wasn't into model railways?

Clive,

 

I do speak occasionally to visitors at shows who aren't as old (or grumpy) as I am. Indeed, it's been my privilege to personally help several quite young modellers, even though one said it took time before he plucked up the courage to speak to me because he thought I was 'fearsome'. I thanked him for that. Interestingly, in every case they model what I remember or what their grandparents remember from the days of steam.

 

Might I offer some empirical evidence with regard to the ageing 'status' of the current hobby, by way of a question, please? Why is it that almost every show (large and small) now no longer offers OAP concessionary rate entrance tickets? I think it's because, if they did, by far the majority of tickets would be of that kind, and the shows would lose a substantial revenue. 

[allan downes]

Alan does this help ?.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fiy6kiLyE-k

 

Brit15

 

 OMG, Apollo, it most certainly does and I never realized that it ventured out as far as Bushey.

 

Many thanks for that so now I'm gonna phone up the old gang and tell 'em what I know now what none of us knew then !

 

Again, many thanks.

 

Allan

[allan downes]

 ....even though one said it took time before he plucked up the courage to speak to me because he thought I was 'fearsome'. 

 

I don't know, Tony.  I found you quite fearsome when we first met !

 

Allan

[Clearwater]

On this point on the post steam generation tending to favour pre nationalisation, a camp into which I also fall, I was wondering whether we too are being influenced by our own earlist memories of steam and modelling. I was taken from a young age to the likes of the SVR. In those days the stock may have had more in grouping liveries than today plus the stations were, and still are, in the chocolate box grouping colours. If I recall model rail shows from the early 80s, the cliche of GWR branchline terminus was in fashion.

 

David

[stewartingram]

I wish I could recall where I read it, but I have seen in print that the Triang version with the white stripes and roof is a neverwozzer (cue language police), and the all blue one shouldn't have had the cab windows painted - IIRC they weren't white but a very pale blue - either.  It (edit - the prototype, not the model) did however get small yellow panels as you depict correctly in your model.

 

As a trainspotter from Cambridge, D5578 & D5579 were regulars to me. D5579 was an "orange" version (Golden Ochre) of the standard green livery, with stripes. D5578 was blue, no stripes. Apart from the 1st 20 locos, none had "white" window frames until the fictional heritage repaints of later years. I always believed Electric Blue was the right colour when new, but it weathered rapidly to a darker shade - possibly the effects of oil and soot on the paintwork? I have a Lima D5578; I repainted this with Railmatch Electric Blue which was a perfect match. In time I will weather it darker though.

 

Stewart

[Clive Mortimore]

Clive,

 

I do speak occasionally to visitors at shows who aren't as old (or grumpy) as I am. Indeed, it's been my privilege to personally help several quite young modellers, even though one said it took time before he plucked up the courage to speak to me because he thought I was 'fearsome'. I thanked him for that. Interestingly, in every case they model what I remember or what their grandparents remember from the days of steam.

 

Might I offer some empirical evidence with regard to the ageing 'status' of the current hobby, by way of a question, please? Why is it that almost every show (large and small) now no longer offers OAP concessionary rate entrance tickets? I think it's because, if they did, by far the majority of tickets would be of that kind, and the shows would lose a substantial revenue. 

Very true Tony,

 

It could well be that the show wouldn't make as much door money, could it also be with their generous work pensions there is some extra spending money the shows are tapping into. 

 

When manning the DEMU stand I can get grumpy old men, complaining we have no steam locos on display. At this years DEMU showcase I spoke to more modelling mates about mine and their retirements. And thinking about meeting you at the Willoughby Arms, "Oh you look a lot older than I imagined"......Yes it is a hobby enjoyed by many people who have more miles behind them than in front.

 

As I have said before, let us enjoy our hobby now and let the future look after itself.

[New Haven Neil]

Thanks for the feedback on the Brush 2's - interesting.  I hadn't seen that other thread - and it turns out I DO have Fleet Review number 4 - but my 'forgettory' as ChrisF calls it, had deleted it from my consciousness.

 

I have a spare one or two (OK, 4 in various livereries) that may just get a lick of paint one day, I love the Ochre one but doing the white stripes is beyond my skill level.  The repaint at the GCR of a different class member in the livery looks very well.

[robertcwp]

 OMG, Apollo, it most certainly does and I never realized that it ventured out as far as Bushey.

 

Many thanks for that so now I'm gonna phone up the old gang and tell 'em what I know now what none of us knew then !

 

Again, many thanks.

 

Allan

It didn't. The GN Edgware line from Finsbury Park only reached Edgware itself never beyond. There was a branch from Finchley Church End to High Barnet and another from Highgate to Alexandra Palace. The line closed to passengers beyond Finchley either at the start of or early on in WW2. The section between what is now Finchley Central and Mill Hill East is now Northern Line, electrified and brought into use in 1941 to serve nearby barracks. The line beyond survived for many years freight only. East Finchley-High Barnet is also now Northern Line. The stub of the line towards Finsbury Park survives only to serve Highgate depot. Bushey Heath was a victim of the war and post-war Green Belt. Finsbury Park-Alexandra Palace closed in 1954 but the line as far as Highgate depot survived for Underground stock transfers (hauled by battery locomotives) until 1970.

[St Enodoc]

Oh, and another little memory - A four kid expedition to discover where that little branch line ended up that was undertaken on one hot, relentless Summer's day during the hols with nothing better to do, and nothing left to do as we'd already done everything that was strictly illegal and everything that was regarded as scientifically impossible if you were under 4 foot ten.

 

Equipped with a bottle of Tizer, four jam sandwiches and  absolutely no sense of direction whatsoever, we started off by foot from The Hale and followed the single track for what seemed to be for ever where having reached the Mill Hill East gasworks we declared it as the end of the line, whether it was or it wasn't, ate our sandwiches, drained the Tizer bottle, argued  desperately about  who could keep it so as to claim the penny refund then slogged our way home where we told the rest of the gang that we only got as far a Scotland, even though it was entirely in the opposite direction altogether, because one jam sandwich just wasn't going to do it.

 

So, does anyone know where it  ACTUALLY did end?

 

Thanks.

 

Allan.

Allan, I grew up in Mill Hill (a few years after you) and went to Dollis school, which backed on to the line. By that time - early 1960s - most trains were diesel hauled (I would guess by EE Type 1s, later class 20) but there was an occasional N2. The 240A bus from Mill Hill East to Edgware was a replacement for the former rail passenger service. The line closed in 1964 and the trackbed under the Watford Way was converted to the off slip road for the new M1 - which itself closed when the motorway was extended to Staples Corner.

 

There's lots on the web about the Northern Heights railways as well as some good books - for example, London's Underground Suburbs and By Tube Beyond Edgware.

Edited September 22, 2017 by St Enodoc

[St Enodoc]

It didn't. The GN Edgware line from Finsbury Park only reached Edgware itself never beyond. There was a branch from Finchley Church End to High Barnet and another from Highgate to Alexandra Palace. The line closed to passengers beyond Finchley either at the start of or early on in WW2. The section between what is now Finchley Central and Mill Hill East is now Northern Line, electrified and brought into use in 1941 to serve nearby barracks. The line beyond survived for many years freight only. East Finchley-High Barnet is also now Northern Line. The stub of the line towards Finsbury Park survives only to serve Highgate depot. Bushey Heath was a victim of the war and post-war Green Belt. Finsbury Park-Alexandra Palace closed in 1954 but the line as far as Highgate depot survived for Underground stock transfers (hauled by battery locomotives) until 1970.

Conductor rails were laid beyond Mill Hill East but never energised. They were later removed as part of the war effort. Aldenham Bus Works was to have been the new Northern Line depot.

[Woodcock29]

I have said this before but I don't model what I have seen. I model what I wish I had seen and can only see now through model making.

 

If I want to see a Class 66 on a container train, I don't need to build a model of it, I look out of my window.

 

Blue diesels (my trainspotting days) I can see at preserved lines or on many other layouts.

 

If I want to see a GCR liveried loco pulling a rake of GCR carriages, I have a few snippets of old black and white film, a tiny number of other layouts or my own model making (Until the good folk at Ruddington get theirs finished!).

Like Tony Gee I model(mainly)what I wish I had seen. My modelling period is roughly 1935-39 (some 15-20 years before I was born) and is a fictitious mainline somewhere between the exGC London Extension and the ECML, such that if either of these has engineering works being undertaken trains can be routed through my mainline. This period is of course the Golden Age of the LNER but still allows a vast number of pre-grouping locos to be used from both the GC and GN plus the odd one from the GE. The layout actually has a separate mainline system (LMS) running in parallel with the main station so that I can run 'foreigh' locos that I like from that period, mostly ex L&Y or LNWR.

 

I do however, have a 'collection' of BR ER motive power, and some passenger rolling stock some of which I did see, and even travelled behind (60029)or went onto the footplate of (60049)that get to stretch their legs occasionally on the layout. As if that isn't enough I am dabbling with modelling South Australian Railways in the early-mid 1960s, again something I did see and have some memory of when we arrived here in 1964.

 

So my conclusion is that I'm a bit of everything except a modeller of more recent times!

Andrew Emmett

Edited September 23, 2017 by Woodcock29

[allan downes]

It didn't. The GN Edgware line from Finsbury Park only reached Edgware itself never beyond. There was a branch from Finchley Church End to High Barnet and another from Highgate to Alexandra Palace. The line closed to passengers beyond Finchley either at the start of or early on in WW2. The section between what is now Finchley Central and Mill Hill East is now Northern Line, electrified and brought into use in 1941 to serve nearby barracks. The line beyond survived for many years freight only. East Finchley-High Barnet is also now Northern Line. The stub of the line towards Finsbury Park survives only to serve Highgate depot. Bushey Heath was a victim of the war and post-war Green Belt. Finsbury Park-Alexandra Palace closed in 1954 but the line as far as Highgate depot survived for Underground stock transfers (hauled by battery locomotives) until 1970.

 

 Thanks for that Robert.

 

Do you recall Hammer's Hill pond where as kids we once spent a whole week building a raft which sank immediately during field trials !

 

As I recall, there were a series of brick built arches (Intended to carry a line extension of some kind maybe ? ) that were built on wasteland between Apex Corner and the Stanmore roundabout on the A41 (?) and I do believe that they are still there today.

 

As a side, do you remember Blunts model shop that stood at the top of Mill Hill Broadway near the roundabout ? Oh, and Nan Clarke's lane, a haunted lane that ran off Totteridge High Road that used to scare the crap out of us kids even though we never once Nan Clark - well excepting me of course....  Then there was Scratch Woods, picnics and mosquito bites and, not to forget The Capitol cinema  at the top of the Broadway now a supermarket I believe.

 

I lived above the shops in Deansbrook Road and a no-go area if you weren't in our gang ! Oh, and I bet you didn't know that Langley Park, off  Bunns Lane, got completely flattened during the war by a VI Rocket/Buzzbomb.

 

And the 52 bus turn a round at Bunns Lane also ?

 

Allan

[St Enodoc]

 Thanks for that Robert.

 

Do you recall Hammer's Hill pond where as kids we once spent a whole week building a raft which sank immediately during field trials !

 

As I recall, there were a series of brick built arches (Intended to carry a line extension of some kind maybe ? ) that were built on wasteland between Apex Corner and the Stanmore roundabout on the A41 (?) and I do believe that they are still there today.

 

As a side, do you remember Blunts model shop that stood at the top of Mill Hill Broadway near the roundabout ? Oh, and Nan Clarke's lane, a haunted lane that ran off Totteridge High Road that used to scare the crap out of us kids even though we never once Nan Clark - well excepting me of course....  Then there was Scratch Woods, picnics and mosquito bites and, not to forget The Capitol cinema  at the top of the Broadway now a supermarket I believe.

 

I lived above the shops in Deansbrook Road and a no-go area if you weren't in our gang ! Oh, and I bet you didn't know that Langley Park, off  Bunns Lane, got completely flattened during the war by a VI Rocket/Buzzbomb.

 

And the 52 bus turn a round at Bunns Lane also ?

 

Allan

Yes to all of those Allan.

 

The pond at the top of Hammers Lane was Sheepwash Pond, while the pond in the village at the top of Milespit Hill was Angel Pond.

 

The arches near the Spur Road roundabout were intended as part of the previously-mentioned Bushey Heath extension of the Northern Line.

 

Blunt's was a wonderful shop, run in my time by Peter and Alan, the "sons" in H A Blunt & Sons.

 

Enough for now as we have strayed well off topic!

[APOLLO]

Allan have you seen these sites re the interesting area you write about (interesting for me as a "regular" Finsbury Park 34G visitor in the late 60's early 70's. A rough area but full of railway interest back then - Deltics and semaphore signals !!.

 

http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/Northern_Heights_1.html

 

Wibbles fantastic "Hornsey broadway" layout  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/7989-hornsey-broadway/

 

The EM site featuring the above  http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/layout_hornsey.html

 

There are some links at the bottom of the above site that may be of interest.

 

Brit15

[allan downes]

Many thanks gentlemen. It certainly brings back fond memories of a bygone era where the sun always shone and there was always a plentiful supply of Tizer and jam sandwiches on hand for the more adventurous of us and, notably, the Deansbrook Road gang in particular !

 

There were times that if you could run fast enough, you could jump a ride on the break van as the train lumbered towards the Hale. After that however, it sped up and if you didn't jump off quick enough  you'd end up at Mill Hill East gasworks with a long walk home !

 

The strange this was, that the break van seemed to be rarely manned were I suspect the guard rode up front with the loco crew to discuss local football results.

 

Halcyon days indeed.

 

Allan

 

These are 'The Fields' today that banked right up to the railway  and most certainly better manicured than I could ever remember !

 

Edited September 23, 2017 by allan downes

[grahame]

There's seems to be a theme running on this thread recently that the steam era was better and more interesting than the D&E era. I disagree and surely it's a mater of personal opinion.

 

I'm old enough to have witnessed and remember steam trains, and don't actively dislike them, but I much prefer the style and modernity of electric traction. For me the steam age railway was dirty, tired and tiresome. To me steam locos have a rather clunky and warty look that lack any elegance or aesthetic appeal. And they have a rather grubby, greasy and unpleasant patina and persona. They always seemed to struggle in to stations with a scary and worrying clanking and puffing noise, accompanied by wheezing and belching out of clouds of enveloping choking smoke, rather like an asthmatic and tired old man.

 

I remember, as a child, once being lifted on to the footplate of a steam locomotive. My abiding memory from the experience was of a very dirty, noisy, smelly, cramped and unpleasantly hot working environment. I was instantly cured of the notion of wanting to be an engine driver. And to put a nail in the coffin of any such career thoughts were the constant reminder warnings from parents when travelling by train of not to touch anything (as everything was covered in a dirty, oily and sooty muck) and not to lean out of the windows otherwise you will get covered in smuts or, even worse, get one in the eye.

 

On the other hand modern electric stock offered all that an aspiring lad, who was keen on the space race, modern design and new developments, could want – almost silent trains that glided effortlessly in and out of stations and that were relatively clean (at least certainly not puffing out clouds of black smelly smoke) and brightly painted. What’s more was that the Underground trains I watched at Cockfosters where we lived in the very early 60s had sliding doors that opened almost magically with a swoosh at the touch of a button – very advanced and sci-fi like, something that the dirty old steam trains didn’t offer.

By mid 1963 we were living at Herne Bay on the North Kent coast. Fireball XL5 was on TV and Dr Who about to start (we played with the children of the author of the first story so were primed about its imminent beginning) which satisfied my sci-fi interest and the local trains were mainly new electric multiple units providing the railway interest. Steam didn’t feature on the radar, but by then I’d already learnt it wasn’t a pleasant experience. There is certainly no romance or nostalgia in my memory of steam.

 

G.

[APOLLO]

I loved the grot of the 50's, 60's and 70's. Born and bred in south Wigan just behind the right hand "coolie" in this photo urban grot was absolutely everywhere. It was part and parcel of life.

 

 

 

Everything back then was powered by coal & steam, the railways, said gas and electricity works, the countless cotton mills, iron works, again countless engineering works, coal mines etc, even my primary school was heated by a huge coke fired boiler. Yes we had pea soup thick smog in winter, no central heating, ice on the inside of windows etc.

 

Along with the rapidly vanishing steam locomotives I also liked the new diesels back then because they were clean and new. Little did I know my world of grot was rapidly disappearing. It took time to "get clean" and the clean air act helped. Starting work in 1969 at "The Gas Board" I saw the end of coal gas production at Wigan, the introduction of clean natural gas and in my apprenticeship helped to fit countless gas fires, replacing coal fires. Happy years.

 

Would I like to return to that era - Hell No ! - but I fondly remember - and try to model it. Difficult to model is such "atmosphere"

 

Cough, cough,

 

Brit15

[Clive Mortimore]

There's seems to be a theme running on this thread recently that the steam era was better and more interesting than the D&E era. I disagree and surely it's a mater of personal opinion.

 

I'm old enough to have witnessed and remember steam trains, and don't actively dislike them, but I much prefer the style and modernity of electric traction. For me the steam age railway was dirty, tired and tiresome. To me steam locos have a rather clunky and warty look that lack any elegance or aesthetic appeal. And they have a rather grubby, greasy and unpleasant patina and persona. They always seemed to struggle in to stations with a scary and worrying clanking and puffing noise, accompanied by wheezing and belching out of clouds of enveloping choking smoke, rather like an asthmatic and tired old man.

 

I remember, as a child, once being lifted on to the footplate of a steam locomotive. My abiding memory from the experience was of a very dirty, noisy, smelly, cramped and unpleasantly hot working environment. I was instantly cured of the notion of wanting to be an engine driver. And to put a nail in the coffin of any such career thoughts were the constant reminder warnings from parents when travelling by train of not to touch anything (as everything was covered in a dirty, oily and sooty muck) and not to lean out of the windows otherwise you will get covered in smuts or, even worse, get one in the eye.

 

On the other hand modern electric stock offered all that an aspiring lad, who was keen on the space race, modern design and new developments, could want – almost silent trains that glided effortlessly in and out of stations and that were relatively clean (at least certainly not puffing out clouds of black smelly smoke) and brightly painted. What’s more was that the Underground trains I watched at Cockfosters where we lived in the very early 60s had sliding doors that opened almost magically with a swoosh at the touch of a button – very advanced and sci-fi like, something that the dirty old steam trains didn’t offer.

By mid 1963 we were living at Herne Bay on the North Kent coast. Fireball XL5 was on TV and Dr Who about to start (we played with the children of the author of the first story so were primed about its imminent beginning) which satisfied my sci-fi interest and the local trains were mainly new electric multiple units providing the railway interest. Steam didn’t feature on the radar, but by then I’d already learnt it wasn’t a pleasant experience. There is certainly no romance or nostalgia in my memory of steam.

 

G.

Hi Grahame

 

Looks like we both travelled on the same steam trains. If we went to see my Nan in Farnborough we would travel in our scruffy clothes and be whisked into the loos to get changed into our best clothes on arrival at Farnborough, with the "Wash your hands, now" followed by the compulsory lick on the hankie wash to get the last detritus off our faces. Waterloo station was just full of smoke, which found its way into the EMUS, 2 BILs were as dirty as the loco hauled stock.

 

Going on holiday to Yarmouth or Hunstanton which was mainly on clean modern DMUs no such fuss. And you could see out the front.

 

Diesels meant no lick on the hankie wash..... :locomotive: :locomotive:

Edited September 23, 2017 by Clive Mortimore

[Lecorbusier]

Interesting .....

 

The bright clean modernity of the 60s, by the time I travelled by train (late 70s - early 80s) had somewhat paled! My memory is of everything run down and threadbare in dirgey browns and mustards! (not the trains) Smelly diesels, dirty stations and late late late services. Graffiti, failing sixties tower-blocks and sink estates ....and the emergence of Punk as a kick back against the system. Limited interest for a teenager at stations such that spotting never occurred to me  ... more interested in music and climbing  - though I loved my trainset!   .... sounds good to model though doesn't it! 

 

However, if we are talking of the steam era of the Edwardian Midland ... now we're talking! .... lovingly polished and lined locos, clayton carriages to die for, station staff uniformed and spick and span ... and of course rose coloured spectacles well and truly on 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Lecorbusier

[APOLLO]

I mentioned in an earlier post the family holiday in Ilfracombe in 1963, that's when my real interest in railways started. spam cans were a revelation to me, what wonderful names they carried. I still have fond memories of them storming out of Ilfracombe with 3 coaches on !!. Earlier holidays were in Towyn near Barmouth and I still remember Cambrian steam around 1960, Later holidays were around Hereford / South West Wales and Forest of Dean so I remember the very end of steam (only just) on the Western region. Beeching was getting a grip at this time also, a hard time for the railways. I could never get too interested in GW steam (though I loved the Hydraulics !!), and never saw LNER steam in it's prime, just a few visits to Yorkshire in the mid to late 60's, tatty old B1's etc.. Steam was dying quickly there also.

 

Steam ended in NW England and I was there in the thick of it, August 1968, there are lots of photos on my Flikr site below. Yes it was a sad time, but I was young back then, and daft !!. - Lord - next year is the 50th anniversary of the end of BR steam - Time marches on.

 

Just one last point. For such a small country as the UK we have / had a very wide diversity of railways, . Many towns benefited from having two or more pre grouping railways and their locomotive types / operating procedures / signalling / railway architecture etc. In Wigan we had the dominant LNWR and the L&Y (which both became LMS) and the GC which became LNER. This grotty branch line to Wigan Central from the back of beyond is one of the main reasons for my LNER interest. You can see all three below.

 

I'm modelling the GC line on the right where it crosses the canal to Wigan (GC) Goods on this very interesting photo.

 

 

The railway crossing diagonally is the L&Y to Bolton & Manchester, The LNWR West Coast main line is entering Wigan North Western to the top left. GC line to the right. This scene is around 1925 or so. Lovingly lined locos and polished carriages I very much doubt !!

 

Brit15

Edited September 23, 2017 by APOLLO

[Clive Mortimore]

Interesting .....

 

The bright clean modernity of the 60s, by the time I travelled by train (late 70s - early 80s) had somewhat paled! My memory is of everything run down and threadbare in dirgey browns and mustards! (not the trains) Smelly diesels, dirty stations and late late late services. Graffiti, failing sixties tower-blocks and sink estates ....and the emergence of Punk as a kick back against the system. Limited interest for a teenager at stations such that spotting never occurred to me  ... more interested in music and climbing  - though I loved my trainset!   .... sounds good to model though doesn't it! 

 

However, if we are talking of the steam era of the Edwardian Midland ... now we're talking! .... lovingly polished and lined locos, clayton carriages to die for, station staff uniformed and spick and span ... and of course rose coloured spectacles well and truly on 

Someone say PUNK...................note the railway interest was still there.

 

[Tony Wright]

There's seems to be a theme running on this thread recently that the steam era was better and more interesting than the D&E era. I disagree and surely it's a mater of personal opinion.

 

I'm old enough to have witnessed and remember steam trains, and don't actively dislike them, but I much prefer the style and modernity of electric traction. For me the steam age railway was dirty, tired and tiresome. To me steam locos have a rather clunky and warty look that lack any elegance or aesthetic appeal. And they have a rather grubby, greasy and unpleasant patina and persona. They always seemed to struggle in to stations with a scary and worrying clanking and puffing noise, accompanied by wheezing and belching out of clouds of enveloping choking smoke, rather like an asthmatic and tired old man.

 

I remember, as a child, once being lifted on to the footplate of a steam locomotive. My abiding memory from the experience was of a very dirty, noisy, smelly, cramped and unpleasantly hot working environment. I was instantly cured of the notion of wanting to be an engine driver. And to put a nail in the coffin of any such career thoughts were the constant reminder warnings from parents when travelling by train of not to touch anything (as everything was covered in a dirty, oily and sooty muck) and not to lean out of the windows otherwise you will get covered in smuts or, even worse, get one in the eye.

 

On the other hand modern electric stock offered all that an aspiring lad, who was keen on the space race, modern design and new developments, could want – almost silent trains that glided effortlessly in and out of stations and that were relatively clean (at least certainly not puffing out clouds of black smelly smoke) and brightly painted. What’s more was that the Underground trains I watched at Cockfosters where we lived in the very early 60s had sliding doors that opened almost magically with a swoosh at the touch of a button – very advanced and sci-fi like, something that the dirty old steam trains didn’t offer.

By mid 1963 we were living at Herne Bay on the North Kent coast. Fireball XL5 was on TV and Dr Who about to start (we played with the children of the author of the first story so were primed about its imminent beginning) which satisfied my sci-fi interest and the local trains were mainly new electric multiple units providing the railway interest. Steam didn’t feature on the radar, but by then I’d already learnt it wasn’t a pleasant experience. There is certainly no romance or nostalgia in my memory of steam.

 

G.

Grahame,

 

You're right that interests in railways at different times (or anything) is a matter of opinion. It would seem that most readers of this thread favour modelling a steam era depiction. But, which one? In my case it's very simple - what I remember as a trainspotter.

 

What do you mean by the D&E era? The one which began some 60 years ago, blue/grey, Sectorisation or the 21st Century (or others)?  What I find most appealing about the steam/early diesel transition period (1957-'63) is that, in the main, though the diesel trains might have been new, they were still running over a complete, steam-age infrastructure. 

 

You cite how steam was dirty, noisy, asthmatic, belchy, warty (and many other 'attributes'). Does anyone remember travelling from London to Bristol in the summer of 1961? That August, I was trainspotting on Temple Meads and I lost count of the number of announcements which apologised for the late arrival of services because of 'locomotive failure'. They should have qualified it by saying 'diesel' locomotive failure, because the hydraulic Warships were going through a horrid patch. One complete (and very handsome) set of WR chocolate and cream Mk.1s arrived behind a shining Warship. What was of note, however, was that the whole lot was headed by a County, displaying all the things you mention about steam. The thing was, it was the only reason why the train arrived, late or not. 

 

In the summer of 1958, I was dismayed to find several of the principal ECML expresses diesel-hauled (by EE Type 4s). They were on the like of the Flying Scotsman and Talisman(s). Fast forward a year or two, and joy of joys, steam was back, often in the form of rejuvenated A3s, running on the out and back diesel diagrams (which the diesels failed on). 

 

It is certainly not a matter of opinion that many of the early diesel designs were hopeless. I'll never forget seeing almost the whole class of (quite clean) Baby Deltics laid up in a remote siding at Stratford. What's the point of a shiny, clean, new, space-age, Dr Whoesque (I've just made up a word) locomotive if it's under-powered, overweight and thoroughly unreliable? Now, the big Deltics - I'm with you there when it comes to a liking for diesels! 

[Bernard Lamb]

 

 

Blunt's was a wonderful shop, run in my time by Peter and Alan, the "sons" in H A Blunt & Sons.

 

Enough for now as we have strayed well off topic!

Just straying a bit further.

I vaguely remember Blunt's also having a shop in WGC.

I am sure I once bought some PC Models Gresley coach kits there.

Bernard