Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

Many thanks once again for those Tony, very much appreciated as I begin my endeavor, and thanks as well to the previous posters with soldering tips, I shall be watching the right tracks video on youtube with a keen eye.  I had hoped to go to one of the stands at Wigan offering soldering demonstrations, however, overrunning of other commitments that morning had rendered my trip to Wigan as a fleeting visit. I shall check the diary as to whether I'd be able to attend Peterborough next weekend (concert season with the brass bands approaches again), failing that, I shall be hunting for the next shows in my area with a view to hunting down the soldering demonstrators. 

 

Thanks again

 

Kieran

Good morning Kieran,

 

I've listed below a few BR West Riding sets, because they might be of interest to others as well.

 

1950/'51.

'The White Rose' Down.

BG (Gresley)

BTK,TO,RK,FO,BFK - the Leeds Quint set

FK (Thompson)

TK (Thompson)

TK (Thompson)

BTK (Thompson

All the above to Leeds Central

BCK (Thompson)

TK (Thompson)

TK (Thompson)

TK (Thompson)

BCK (Thompson)

For Bradford, detached at Wakefield. 

 

10.18 am Kings Cross-Leeds Monday/Friday/Saturday

All Gresley

BTK

TK

TK

TK

TK

TK

TK

BCK

Above to Leeds Central

BTK

TK

TK

BCK

Above to Bradford, detached at Wakefield

 

1955

12.0 noon 'The Queen of Scots' Down

First Kitchen

Third Kitchen

Pair above detached at Leeds

Third Brake

Third Kitchen

Third Parlour

First Parlour

First Kitchen

Third Parlour

Third Kitchen

Third Brake

 

For Comparison, the same train in 1960/'61 (with Mk. 1 cars

Second Parlour

First Kitchen

Above to Leeds-only

Second Brake

Second Kitchen

First Parlour

First Kitchen

First Kitchen

Second Parlour

Second Brake

 

1958/'59

8.50 am 'The White Rose' Down. All BR Mk.1 except the catering cars, which are Gresley

BSK

SK

TSO

RSP

RF

FK

CK

BSK

Above to Leeds

CK

BSK

TSO

Above to Bradford, detached at Wakefield.

 

10.10 am Mondays-only Kings Cross-Leeds. All Gresleys

BSK

SK

SK

SK

SK

SK

SK

BCK

Above to Leeds

BCK

SK

SK

BSK

Above to Bradford, detached at Wakefield

 

10.20 am Kings Cross-Leeds, Ripon, Bradford, Hull. All Mk. 1 except catering triplet

BCK

SO, RK, FO - triplet

CK

BSO

Above to Leeds

TSO

BCK

Above onwards from Leeds to Ripon

TSO

BSK

CK

Above for Bradford, detached at Wakefield

CK

BSO

Above for Hull, detached at Doncaster

 

3.40 pm 'The West Riding' Kings Cross-Leeds. All Mk.1 apart from catering twin, which is an ex-streamlined pair.

BSK

TSO

FO

RS/SO Catering twin

CK

TSO

BSO

Above to Leeds

BSO

CK

TSO

BCK

Above to Bradford, detached at Wakefield.

 

There should be enough to be going on with there. 

 

Most of the Mk.1s should be available from Bachmann or Hornby. Bachmann's latest Thompsons should do, but photographic evidence suggests the Gresleys mentioned are end door, which Hornby doesn't do. Catering vehicles will have to be kit-built. Hornby's latest Pullmans should do for the 'Queen of Scots'.

 

I don't have the consists for the shorter, suburban trains in and out of Leeds Central. Many of these were DMUs by the late-'50s.

 

I hope this helps,

 

Regards.

 

Tony.

[KieranH]

Good Morning Tony,

 

Many thanks again for this information, there is indeed plenty there for me to be getting on with. Thankfully it looks as though the vast majority of the mark 1 stock I already have can be used (with some modifications, renumbering, weathering, better couplings where coaches do not need seperating). Aquisition of some more and Thompson stock (and indeed, their modification) can hopefully take place while I practise my soldering skills ready to fill in gaps with the kit built stock that will be required.

I had read that by the time that I am looking to depict many local services had gone over to DMU usage, and it looks to me that those remaining steam hauled ones made use of non-gangwayed stock? I have seen photos that seem to suggest this (including one described as a local being hauled by an A1 on running in duties, Tony, you did mention there was a service that Doncaster used for this purpose at Wigan). Please feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood something in my initial research.

 

Many thanks again

 

Kieran

[robertcwp]

Good Afternoon Tony/everyone.

 

This is my first post in this thread (and indeed on rmweb) but there seems to me to be a great many modellers contributing to the thread modelling similar periods and locations to myself so it seems the best place to come hunting for advice.

 

Just like to add a quick thank you to Tony for his chat last Sunday at the Wigan show, and for helping with my questions regarding locos and train formations, even though he may still be wondering why a man of 28 who barely remembers seeing anything other than DMUs and class 66s would be modelling the late 1950s... must be the variety of locos and stock that drew me to the period! To put you all in the picture, my layout is rather loosely based (pointwork being much simplified and some aspects removed completely due to space requirements) on Leeds Central (it also won't be called Leeds due to the number of changes, a new name has yet to be decided on but must sound convincingly West Yorkshire...). However, the train formations and running schedule from Leeds Central will be used as it is my view that, even though my layout is based in a fictitious city, by using correct train formations/loco diagrams etc. this will help add a sense of realism to my layout.

 

Once again, thanks to Tony for his help with which locos would have been used on services, and the coaches that would have formed the trains, and I look forward (very nervously I might add) to aquiring the kits required (both coaches and locos), and any future help/advice through this thread on what to aquire, where to aquire from, unusual anomolies that ran would be gratefully received and appreciated.

 

I would like to ask though, does anyone have any tips when it comes to soldering (other than keep practising)? As i first move away from the open the box, plonk it on and away we go train set into 'proper' modelling (buildings too will be made rather than bought to help create an atmosphere), my first attempts at soldering (on scraps, again, thanks to Tony for those!) have been somewhat of a disaster in that all I've managed was one badly made joint and several pieces of tinned metal (and fortunately, no burned fingers....yet). I feel it best to ask now and to take on board tips and advice on scraps rather than badly make and possibly damage/ruin my first kit as and when the time comes.

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who may reply and I look forward to posting again in the future as things progress.

 

Kieran

These might be of interest:

 

NER West Riding Carriage Workings Summer 1958

 

ER GN Main Line Carriage Workings Summer 1958

 

As noted by Tony, DMUs would have been around by then, in fact the West Riding was the first area to receive Derby Lightweight DMUs of the original type with different engines and transmissions to the next and subsequent batches as modelled by Bachmann. If you can find one, the best starting point for a conversion would be the very first Derby Lightweight that Bachmann did - a West Cumberland set, as the body is pretty much correct apart from MU jumpers and absence of one light on the front.

 

Derby-LW_nrLeedsCentral by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Derby-LW_LeedsCentral by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Edited October 8, 2017 by robertcwp

[coachmann]

As noted by Tony, DMUs would have been around by then, in fact the West Riding was the first area to receive Derby Lightweight DMUs of the original type ............

 

 

Also the Conwy Valley branch in North Wales. I also recall seeing the very first Met-Camm units like the old Triang Unit in Manchester Victoria some years before general DMU-isation.

Edited October 8, 2017 by coachmann

[robertcwp]

Also the Conwy Valley branch in North Wales. I also recall seeing the very first Met-Camm units like the old Triang Unit in Manchester Victoria some years before general DMU-isation.

The Conwy Valley ones would have been the slightly later version of the Derby Lightweight with what became the yellow diamond coupling code, mechanical transmission and larger van area than the West Riding ones. The first BR DMUs appeared in 1954, so pre-dated the launch of the Modernisation Plan. 

 

The eight West Riding ones were power-twins with Leyland engines and an already largely obsolete design of hydraulic transmission and were completely non-standard mechanically. They were all withdrawn around 1964.

[glo41f]

As well as the West Riding sets, we also had Derby Lightweights in East Anglia which has only one power car and a different window configuration. I have been working on one in 7mm using the Bachmann Chinese built offering. Sorted out the window issue but trying to get a smooth joint between the reshuffled parts is proving to be rather fraught and I have not achieved the effect I wanted yet.

 

They are rather like mobile barns with a large and airy interior. I have to say that I loved riding in them when they first came out and got very miffed when the driver sometimes pulled down the blind thereby obstructing the view forward.

 

Martin Long

[KieranH]

These might be of interest:

 

NER West Riding Carriage Workings Summer 1958

 

ER GN Main Line Carriage Workings Summer 1958

 

As noted by Tony, DMUs would have been around by then, in fact the West Riding was the first area to receive Derby Lightweight DMUs of the original type with different engines and transmissions to the next and subsequent batches as modelled by Bachmann. If you can find one, the best starting point for a conversion would be the very first Derby Lightweight that Bachmann did - a West Cumberland set, as the body is pretty much correct apart from MU jumpers and absence of one light on the front.

 

Derby-LW_nrLeedsCentral by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Derby-LW_LeedsCentral by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Many thanks for those, they do look of great interest! And thanks also for the DMU information, definitely plenty for me to go on in the coming months

Kieran

[robertcwp]

As well as the West Riding sets, we also had Derby Lightweights in East Anglia which has only one power car and a different window configuration. I have been working on one in 7mm using the Bachmann Chinese built offering. Sorted out the window issue but trying to get a smooth joint between the reshuffled parts is proving to be rather fraught and I have not achieved the effect I wanted yet.

 

They are rather like mobile barns with a large and airy interior. I have to say that I loved riding in them when they first came out and got very miffed when the driver sometimes pulled down the blind thereby obstructing the view forward.

 

Martin Long

If I recall correctly, they made one side of one of them as the motor composite from the 4-car sets and the other side with the correct arrangement for a driving trailer composite.

 

DLW_8-Car_Waskerley_10-4-65 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Note the odd spacing of the windows behind the first door. This is because the first bay thereafter was first class on the 4-car sets. There was no small window before the second door.

 

Derby Lightweights were not all the same.

[Tony Wright]

Good Morning Tony,

 

Many thanks again for this information, there is indeed plenty there for me to be getting on with. Thankfully it looks as though the vast majority of the mark 1 stock I already have can be used (with some modifications, renumbering, weathering, better couplings where coaches do not need seperating). Aquisition of some more and Thompson stock (and indeed, their modification) can hopefully take place while I practise my soldering skills ready to fill in gaps with the kit built stock that will be required.

I had read that by the time that I am looking to depict many local services had gone over to DMU usage, and it looks to me that those remaining steam hauled ones made use of non-gangwayed stock? I have seen photos that seem to suggest this (including one described as a local being hauled by an A1 on running in duties, Tony, you did mention there was a service that Doncaster used for this purpose at Wigan). Please feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood something in my initial research.

 

Many thanks again

 

Kieran

Kieran,

 

Doncaster Works regularly used Doncaster-Leeds locals for running-in Pacifics. Take a look at the work of Eric Treacy and, particularly, Gavin Morrison. The sets would often comprise of articulated stock, both gangwayed and non-gangwayed. 

[Tony Wright]

Many thanks to all those who've responded to the request for information on the West Riding sets, particularly Robert. 

 

Some little time ago (about three weeks) I was presented with an etched brass kit in 2mm Scale for a GNR/LNER island platform building, with a request that I build it and comment accordingly. 

 

Well, I've built it, and (almost) finished it. 

 

 

 

 

 

The little kit has been designed and produced by Steve Costa under the label of ATSO-CAD Models. He posts on here regularly as Atso. What's really encouraging is that he's highly-talented, and young!

 

I've yet to add some strips to the roof and the building's corners, and do a tiny bit of solder-filling and cleaning up. The fit of the parts is just about perfect and the instructions a blueprint of what instructions should be. Naturally, being me, I deviated from the latter, preferring to solder the roof supports in place before fixing the roof. Anyway, any good kit should be flexible in its building approach. Other than the briefest of flicks with a fibreglass brush, I've done no cleaning up at all. 

 

If I had a 'criticism', it's why mention glue as a medium for fixing etched brass kits together? In my opinion, that's poor advice. 

 

I have no connection with Steve's business, though he is a good friend. The latter said, if there were constructional problems I would say so. No doubt, he can be contacted through this thread. 

 

I'll have the model with me at the Peterborough Show. If anyone is interested in buying it, please speak to me. Any money for it will go to Cancer Research. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

If I had a 'criticism', it's why mention glue as a medium for fixing etched brass kits together? In my opinion, that's poor advice. 

 

 

Because a lot of modellers think, rightly or wrongly, lets not get into that discussion, that soldering is a black art and not for them. Superglue gives an easier option which they feel more comfortable with.

Atso is not the only etched kit supplier to make mention of such things.

 

Mike.

[blueeighties]

As Tony will agree, the Bishop's Castle purpose built railway room wasn't just a room that happened to be spare, but an actual detached building and built at immense cost.

 

The baseboards alone cost thousands as did the miles of 10 mil track and plethora of points. Then there was the scenic work ( me ) which was all entirely scratch built so having to fill such a vast area - all main line stuff, towns, steelworks, other industry, 16ft long mainline stations, massive MPD - was never going to be cheap and took a whole year to complete then suddenly - nothing. Nothing at all. Total silence. Just the closing of the doors and the turn of a key - then, shortly after, ANOTHER railway building built which I also filled then, again, nothing.

 

Allan.

Good grief...does the owner want rid?!

[coachmann]

Models are produced in plastic so they can be glued. Models are etched in brass so that they can be soldered.  Those who feel comfortable with glue all the time need to cut the umbilical chord. A man as skilled in his vocation as a doctor once asked me what I did for a living, then casually mentioned he had been trying to solder his father spectacles without success. I took him a small bottle of home-mixed flux and a week or two later was greeted in the surgery car park by a delighted doctor; "It was sooooo easy".

[Tony Wright]

 

Atso is not the only etched kit supplier to make mention of such things.

 

Mike.

Mike,

 

But that does not mean it's good advice in my opinion. 

 

I understand why manufacturers suggest gluing; not just for etched brass kits, but white metal kits as well. 

 

I have no idea how many made-up metal kits for locos and rolling stock built by others you've had through your hands which have been glued together, but I've had several hundred down the years to try and fix/repair/sell-on, etc, etc. Some, arriving by post, have reverted to being kits again. In others, the epoxy has just let-go or the superglue just peels off. I've even had some stuck together with the likes of UHU, Bostik or Evo-Stik. With regard to the last mentioned, at least 40 years ago I built some BSL kits for Thompson carriages. Because the sides and floor pan were made of aluminium, and the roofs made of wood, I had to glue these together, with Evo Stik. The bogies and underframe detail were soldered together (the latter attached to the floor pan with glue). Guess what? Over the years some of the sides have 'sprung', and roofs have lifted. Yet, all the soldered components are still as good as new. 

 

Among my pupils, despite my insisting they solder their locos together, one arrived saying he'd stuck some steps on with superglue. Again, guess what? As he lifted his prize out of its box to show me, the steps fell off! The first job was to clean them up and then solder them back. They've not fallen off since!

 

I'm not denying that glues have their place in metal kit construction. I occasionally glue pick-up pads in place (though I prefer double-sided PCB) and often fix chimneys and domes, etc, on with epoxy. 

 

With regard to Atso's delightful little kit, not all the roof supports finished up at exactly the same angle (probably to do with my building). One or two were just a twitch out. Not a problem adjusting them because they were soldered on - just light finger pressure needed to put them right. Had they been glued (because the bonding area is necessarily so small), the joint would have just failed, believe me. 

 

I know this topic regarding soldering has been aired before, but, in my opinion, it is by far and away the best method of fixing metal loco/stock (or buildings) together (apart from aluminium, which, I admit, I've never been able to solder). One of the most-asked questions of me as a demonstrator at shows is 'How do you solder your locos/stock together?'. No more than five minutes of demonstrating the techniques is needed and away they go - confident solderers. Yes, I admit to not being able to teach everyone how to solder (too many innate cerebral obstructions in the way), but it would be remiss of me (as a demonstrator/tutor/writer of instructions) not to advise soldering as the best medium for building metal kits.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited October 8, 2017 by Tony Wright

[blueeighties]

Good afternoon all, Tony. I have just been reading through the last few pages of discussion regarding DCC. Most interesting.

As you know, I am fortunate to be able to fiddle with all things model railway on a daily basis, whilst charging for the privilege too!

 

I have never really given it a great deal of thought before, but your question along the lines of "why would someone pay to have a simple DCC chip installed" actually made me think whilst sitting here on a beautiful Sunday afternoon, enjoying a coffee and chocolate nibbles.

 

I have many customers, many who have turned into very good friends, so I get to discuss things in greater depth rather than a relatively faceless booking the job in, and then a few words regarding payment upon completion.

 

I have chaps who other than purchase and remove the loco from the box, won't attempt anything else. I'm not 100% clear if it's fear of damaging an expensive model, lack of interest, or something else, they just want DCC controllable locos, that are repainted and weathered to their chosen prototype. I get the feeling that it would be a similar scenario to choosing a car. Me? 1001 questions and debates. Diesel or petrol? Does the model have a history of any known faults? Timing belt or chain driven? Particulate filter? Etc etc. The other chap just goes into a dealership, picks something he likes, and buys it. No other consideration comes into the purchase process. If I'm honest, I sometimes wish my mind worked a bit like that. Would sometimes make decisions easier! But alas, that's not me and never will be.

 

I then have customers who are extremely proficient modellers, indeed respected and admired within trade circles. But when it comes to anything DCC installation wise, it gets handed to me. I have even offered to talk through and introduce the fundamentals of installation, but it's always met with a gracious no thank you. "I don't 'do' DCC, I don't understand elektrickery, I'll leave it to you. As a business, I have to provide that service, I think you would agree I would be a fool if I didn't.

 

And then we move to 0 gauge. If ever there was a scale where traditionally one had to actually do some modelling then this was it. However, as we touched upon during a previous discussion, things are changing.

 

As you know my work is fixed firmly within the diesel era. Heljan certainly seem to be helping the scale to flourish with all of their recent and upcoming diesel era releases. Interestingly, one would have thought that because 0 gauge has traditionally been a 'modellers' scale, people would do a lot of the work themselves. Far from it. If anything, it's going the way of 4mm...everytime a new release hits the retailers, I'm bombarded with new models. Detailing, repainting, weathering, and soundfitting. Why is this? I'm not entirely sure, but I certainly feel blessed that (fingers crossed) folk are happy to use my services and keep business buoyant.

 

I have to say though, even in 7mm it's surprising just how much effort the manufacturers don't go to to make such things as sound installs easy for the customer. Take for example the fairly recent class 25. Other than a rather poorly thought out and slapdash mounting platform for the soundchip, (I make my own), there is no provision for loudspeaker installation. Let alone plug and play chip installation. I could quite imagine a customer rushing home excited with his latest purchase, (I'm sure we can all remember what it feels like!), after being brave and taking the loco body off, he is faced with a mess of wiring and no guidance or proper instruction as to what to do.

 

Maybe that explains why my phone constantly rings and my email inbox is always busy!

 

Anyway, an interesting discussion, I'm off to remake a new hot cup off coffee. See you at Hartlepool with my messy box of bits ;-)

[Tony Wright]

Good afternoon all, Tony. I have just been reading through the last few pages of discussion regarding DCC. Most interesting.

As you know, I am fortunate to be able to fiddle with all things model railway on a daily basis, whilst charging for the privilege too!

 

I have never really given it a great deal of thought before, but your question along the lines of "why would someone pay to have a simple DCC chip installed" actually made me think whilst sitting here on a beautiful Sunday afternoon, enjoying a coffee and chocolate nibbles.

 

I have many customers, many who have turned into very good friends, so I get to discuss things in greater depth rather than a relatively faceless booking the job in, and then a few words regarding payment upon completion.

 

I have chaps who other than purchase and remove the loco from the box, won't attempt anything else. I'm not 100% clear if it's fear of damaging an expensive model, lack of interest, or something else, they just want DCC controllable locos, that are repainted and weathered to their chosen prototype. I get the feeling that it would be a similar scenario to choosing a car. Me? 1001 questions and debates. Diesel or petrol? Does the model have a history of any known faults? Timing belt or chain driven? Particulate filter? Etc etc. The other chap just goes into a dealership, picks something he likes, and buys it. No other consideration comes into the purchase process. If I'm honest, I sometimes wish my mind worked a bit like that. Would sometimes make decisions easier! But alas, that's not me and never will be.

 

I then have customers who are extremely proficient modellers, indeed respected and admired within trade circles. But when it comes to anything DCC installation wise, it gets handed to me. I have even offered to talk through and introduce the fundamentals of installation, but it's always met with a gracious no thank you. "I don't 'do' DCC, I don't understand elektrickery, I'll leave it to you. As a business, I have to provide that service, I think you would agree I would be a fool if I didn't.

 

And then we move to 0 gauge. If ever there was a scale where traditionally one had to actually do some modelling then this was it. However, as we touched upon during a previous discussion, things are changing.

 

As you know my work is fixed firmly within the diesel era. Heljan certainly seem to be helping the scale to flourish with all of their recent and upcoming diesel era releases. Interestingly, one would have thought that because 0 gauge has traditionally been a 'modellers' scale, people would do a lot of the work themselves. Far from it. If anything, it's going the way of 4mm...everytime a new release hits the retailers, I'm bombarded with new models. Detailing, repainting, weathering, and soundfitting. Why is this? I'm not entirely sure, but I certainly feel blessed that (fingers crossed) folk are happy to use my services and keep business buoyant.

 

I have to say though, even in 7mm it's surprising just how much effort the manufacturers don't go to to make such things as sound installs easy for the customer. Take for example the fairly recent class 25. Other than a rather poorly thought out and slapdash mounting platform for the soundchip, (I make my own), there is no provision for loudspeaker installation. Let alone plug and play chip installation. I could quite imagine a customer rushing home excited with his latest purchase, (I'm sure we can all remember what it feels like!), after being brave and taking the loco body off, he is faced with a mess of wiring and no guidance or proper instruction as to what to do.

 

Maybe that explains why my phone constantly rings and my email inbox is always busy!

 

Anyway, an interesting discussion, I'm off to remake a new hot cup off coffee. See you at Hartlepool with my messy box of bits ;-)

Lee,

 

Many thanks for these comments.

 

I believe your phone constantly rings and your email box is so full because your work is so good. 

 

Over the last few weeks, in conversation with folk when visiting shows or visiting friends' layouts, the same observations keep on coming up; usually related to a perceived diminishing in this creative hobby of people actually making things for themselves. Even at some high-quality shows, the trade side is dominated by box-shifters offering RTR/RTP in all scales and gauges.Granted, I tend to speak with model-makers and like-minded souls, so my perception is probably askew in some respects. However, some recent layouts I've seen are awash with RTR, in some cases with nothing having been done to it. 

 

As DCC grows, the number of traders offering advice and a service is increasing, including that of fitting chips (even if the model is DCC-ready, and it's no more than lift the lid and 'plug & play'). 

 

These observations have been discussed before, but I'm sure the hobby has fundamentally changed with respect to how many 'modellers' are personally doing things, and I'm sure that number is diminishing. The 'mainstream' seems now to be divided into those who just use RTR/RTP or those who pay someone else to alter/build/install whatever they want. Has it always been like this? I don't think so.

 

Of course, it would be mad not to exploit what's now available 'out of the box' (I have done with regard to rolling stock), but it's always more satisfying (or it is to me) to have improved/altered/detailed it for oneself. 

 

See you at Hartlepool. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited October 8, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Clive Mortimore]

Hello Tony and All

 

When I scratchbuild my diesels I use glue, well solvent as I find soldering plastic card causes Mrs M to run around the house shouting "Help!!!! The house is on fire" as my loco goes up in smoke. :locomotive:

 

I have built brass kits naturally soldering them. The very first one with electronics cored solder, that was a game and a half. I have had a go at soldering white metal together some years ago with possibly to much heat as the parts melted. This has put me off. I now have a temperature controlled iron so will have another go. I have assembled some MTK locos using both superglue and epoxy, I am never happy with the results so they will be taken apart and used as my experimental models.

[coachmann]

We cannot buck the market Tony and we are where we are. I don't know why Hornby and Bachmann decided to pitch their models at scale enthusiasts when they did, but it couldn't have been because these modellers demanded it, after all, they hardly bought RTR in those days. I suspect it was because the toy train market was drying up and so with little to lose, the proprietary manufacturers went for the scale modellers market with more emphasis on appearance and fine detail, and they found that China could produce the goods.

 

I will most definitely never build a loco again.....I have been spoiled! RTR is perfectly square, or would be if assembly lines didn't distort things. Bachmann's team in particular has designed some spiffing 4-4-0's and 0-4-4Ts chassis that glide along with not a sign of the waggling gait so familiar on kitbuilt chassis. Take a close look at their 'Dukedog' for example with barely a sign  of daylight showing above its bogie, yet it functions without snagging on the running plate angle. The Compound too is a delight to watch.

 

I am not saying for one minute don't build loco kits. I am merely saying why many of us with enough skills to do everything ourselves no longer bother to build locos. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by coachmann

[Tony Wright]

We cannot buck the market Tony and we are where we are. I don't know why Hornby and Bachmann decided to pitch their models at scale enthusiasts when they did, but it couldn't have been because these modellers demanded it, after all, they hardly bought RTR in those days. I suspect it was because the toy train market was drying up and so with little to lose, the proprietary manufacturers went for the scale modellers market with more emphasis on appearance and fine detail, and they found that China could produce the goods.

 

I will most definitely never build a loco again.....I have been spoiled! RTR is perfectly square, or would be if assembly lines didn't distort things. Bachmann's team in particular has designed some spiffing 4-4-0's and 0-4-4Ts chassis that glide along with not a sign of the waggling gait so familiar on kitbuilt chassis. Take a close look at their 'Dukedog' for example with barely a sign  of daylight showing above its bogie, yet it functions without snagging on the running plate angle. The Compound too is a delight to watch.

 

I am not saying for one minute don't build loco kits. I am merely saying why many of us with enough skills to do everything ourselves no longer bother to build locos. 

I entirely agree, Larry, and, as you say 'we are where we are'.

 

But that doesn't mean to say 'we' have to like it. Accept it, of course, but I'm getting rather bored by seeing the same out-of-the-box items at shows and in the model press. With regard to the latter, how many 'Railways of The Month' does anyone recall from the days of yore which featured (exclusively) RTR/RTP? Anything contemporary RTR/RTP either featured in 'Proprietary Modeller' or 'Junior Modeller' (because it wasn't that good?)

 

If you don't need to build a loco again, then that's a good thing as far as you're concerned. I don't 'need' to, but I continue for two principal reasons. One, I enjoy it and, two, LB's requirements (like Retford's but on a smaller scale) for locos capable of shifting up to 14 kit-built brass/white metal cars render RTR Pacifics not really suitable. 

 

We are we are with new technologies, too, so there is some light out there. Thank goodness for the likes of Steve Costa and his etched-brass work (see previous page) and 3D printing of loco bodies. Without newcomers like him, the hobby will just stagnate further and we'll then be only able to say 'we're where we've been, but no further'. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Enterprisingwestern]

Models are produced in plastic so they can be glued. Models are etched in brass so that they may be soldered.  Those who feel comfortable with glue all the time need to cut the umbilical chord. A man as skilled in his vocation as a doctor once asked me what I did for a living, then casually mentioned he had been trying to solder his father spectacles without success. I took him a small bottle of home-mixed flux and a week or two later was greeted in the surgery car park by a delighted doctor; "It was sooooo easy".

 

Mike.

[C.A.T.Ford]

" stuck together with the likes of UHU, Bostik or Evo-Stik. With regard to the last mentioned, at least 40 years ago I built some BSL kits for Thompson carriages. Because the sides and floor pan were made of aluminium, and the roofs made of wood, I had to glue these together, with Evo Stik. The bogies and underframe detail were soldered together (the latter attached to the floor pan with glue). Guess what? Over the years some of the sides have 'sprung', and roofs have lifted. Yet, all the soldered components are still as good as new. "

 

Tony: Can you please tell me the solder and flux to solder Wood to Aluminium and thus prevent the deterioration of the glued joint most of us would be forced to use?

 

CAT 

[Atso]

Hello Tony,

 

Thank you so much for test building the kit, which will be in production within the next few weeks (shameless plug!). The slight delay is due to a very minor error on the etch - one piece not fully etched through due to an artwork error which I corrected on your etch before giving it to you. I hope that you raise a reasonable amount for Cancer Research from its sale.

 

Out of the six test etches in existence, three have been soldered, one is well on its way to being finished with superglue and the other two are looking very pretty on my desk at the moment (they will also be built). My first ever etched kit was the Severn Models signal box (this range of kits forms the inspiration for the waiting room) which I superglued together as I did not have either the skills or equipment to solder at the time. Three years later it is still in one piece and so far has shown no signs of de-bonding (pictures below).

 

 

 

I think I'll amend the instructions (which were only the draft version anyway) to recommend soldering as the preferred method but will maintain that it can be assembled with glue for those lacking the confidence to solder.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Atso

[Tony Wright]

" stuck together with the likes of UHU, Bostik or Evo-Stik. With regard to the last mentioned, at least 40 years ago I built some BSL kits for Thompson carriages. Because the sides and floor pan were made of aluminium, and the roofs made of wood, I had to glue these together, with Evo Stik. The bogies and underframe detail were soldered together (the latter attached to the floor pan with glue). Guess what? Over the years some of the sides have 'sprung', and roofs have lifted. Yet, all the soldered components are still as good as new. "

 

Tony: Can you please tell me the solder and flux to solder Wood to Aluminium and thus prevent the deterioration of the glued joint most of us would be forced to use?

 

CAT 

Unfortunately, I can't. 

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony,

 

Thank you so much for test building the kit, which will be in production within the next few weeks (shameless plug!). The slight delay is due to a very minor error on the etch - one piece not fully etched through due to an artwork error which I corrected on your etch before giving it to you. I hope that you raise a reasonable amount for Cancer Research from its sale.

 

Out of the six test etches in existence, three have been soldered, one is well on its way to being finished with superglue and the other two are looking very pretty on my desk at the moment (they will also be built). My first ever etched kit was the Severn Models signal box (this range of kits forms the inspiration for the waiting room) which I superglued together as I did not have either the skills or equipment to solder at the time. Three years later it is still in one piece and so far has shown no signs of de-bonding (pictures below).

 

20171008_155459.jpg

 

20171008_155526.jpg

 

I think I'll amend the instructions (which were only the draft version anyway) to recommend soldering as the preferred method but will maintain that it can be assembled with glue for those lacking the confidence to solder.

These are lovely models, Steve,

 

In fairness, they're not as load-bearing as is needed with locos and rolling stock. And, if they're held together with glue and they stay together, then the fixing medium has proved its point. 

 

It's just that I personally find soldering easier. The moment the joint is cool (in seconds), it's as strong as it's ever going to be, and, if adjustment should be necessary, then all that's needed is the reintroduction of the iron. 

 

I hope your venture into kits proves successful. It deserves to be. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Atso]

These are lovely models, Steve,

 

In fairness, they're not as load-bearing as is needed with locos and rolling stock. And, if they're held together with glue and they stay together, then the fixing medium has proved its point. 

 

It's just that I personally find soldering easier. The moment the joint is cool (in seconds), it's as strong as it's ever going to be, and, if adjustment should be necessary, then all that's needed is the reintroduction of the iron. 

 

I hope your venture into kits proves successful. It deserves to be. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Thank you Tony,

 

For metal, I too now prefer soldering but that wasn't the case until earlier this year when I finally found the techniques (dark secrets?) to making a successful joint. I have since employed this skill to assemble several etched van kits and 2mm Association chassis (some of which you've seen). I've even managed to solder white metal now which for some strange reason I had a massive fear of and I really don't know how I got on without being able to solder.

 

However others haven't managed to gain the knack for soldering yet and, as Roy (who you met a couple of weeks ago) has proven with his own test build (interesting you've both picked the same day to do this), the waiting room can be glued together for those not ready to have a go with soldering.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Atso