Wright writes.....

[Lecorbusier]

Tony,

 

 

I always thought you were most charming.

Charming ..... Amusing ..... and perhaps a tad provocative when appropriate! 

[Tony Wright]

I spy a Mopok Hawksworth full brake.

You do John,

 

I think it's one of a pair of Mopok Hawksworths which I considered selling to you - when the World was young, etc, etc.........

 

I don't know who built it, though it is basically sound. I acquired both this BG and a BCK as part of a second-hand deal many moons ago. The problem was with the bogies, which had ancient Jackson stub axles. Since these carriages weigh a proverbial 'ton', with their wood and white metal construction, then shifting them with their 'brakes on' required a great deal of tractive effort. Thus, I took the bogies apart (which were glued together), inserted pin-point bearings, substituted more recent pin-point axles and soldered them back together. 

 

Time was when building such items from kits/scratch was the only means of acquiring one. 

 

 

Not now, for this is Hornby's rendition. Rob Davey weathered this example, which brings it to life. It's superior in just about every way to the printed-side Mopok equivalent, but (apart from the weathering) it's exactly the same as every other RTR one. That's not the 'Bytham' way. 

 

The vehicle to its right is an old Tr-ang Southern bogie van to which I fitted all the bits and pieces (supplied by whom?) to turn it into something it should have looked like, and the one to its left is an old PC Gresley BG in carmine/cream livery (another with pre-printed sides). Both these pieces of 'book end' antiquity date from my modelling of over 40 years ago!

Edited October 5, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

No Brits from me I'm afraid but I do have a couple of new locomotives on the go....

 

N2 & V1 on modified Farish N Class chassis.JPG

 

An N2 and V1, both riding on modified Farish N Class chassis. While the N class's wheelbase is actually too short (7'3 by 8'3 against the LNER loco's 7'3 by 9') I think the overall effect isn't too bad for N gauge. The prints are Shapeways Frosted Extreme Detail (the first time I've used this material) and other than having washed the residue from the printing process off and airbrushing some light grey onto the models, they are as printed (i.e. no sanding/cleaning up yet).

 

Both locos will actually sit level on the chassis but were quickly (and badly) balanced for the photograph.

This is great stuff, Steve,

 

Pushing the possibilities and boundaries as far as the new technologies go should be at the forefront of this hobby. I cannot see any 'witness marks' at all on those loco bodies, so (I assume?) they must have been produced on a 3D printer of the highest (and expensive?) quality. 

 

How feasible is it to make them in 4mm? (or 7mm?). Might there be a market there as well? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Mallard60022]

This is great stuff, Steve,

 

Pushing the possibilities and boundaries as far as the new technologies go should be at the forefront of this hobby. I cannot see any 'witness marks' at all on those loco bodies, so (I assume?) they must have been produced on a 3D printer of the highest (and expensive?) quality. 

 

How feasible is it to make them in 4mm? (or 7mm?). Might there be a market there as well? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

From what I have heard there is also the advantage (?) of the fact that replacement body parts (internal, so no sniggering) are being produced by 3D printing. I believe there is even a possibility that a heart valve can be produced. This could mean extended survival of us 'old gits' and so we must all applaud the RTR teams and also get the irons and fluids warmed up to complete those long stored kits. Great news would you not agree?

Phil 

[Atso]

This is great stuff, Steve,

 

Pushing the possibilities and boundaries as far as the new technologies go should be at the forefront of this hobby. I cannot see any 'witness marks' at all on those loco bodies, so (I assume?) they must have been produced on a 3D printer of the highest (and expensive?) quality. 

 

How feasible is it to make them in 4mm? (or 7mm?). Might there be a market there as well? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Thank you Tony,

 

The material is known as Frosted Extreme Detail (FXD) and I think is reasonably priced for what you get; there are materials out there that can give near perfect results now but at around 20 times the price! There are still 'witness marks' with FXD, although these are generally quite faint (be not in all areas) and the models always benefit from some careful rubbing down. These have now gone through the first initial stage and I've got the last couple of small areas to make smooth before I start to paint the liveries. This is time consuming but, if you take out the time waiting for the primer coats to dry, it is still quicker than many kits.

 

My own B9 Creator, while still requiring some cleanup, can produce a smooth finish more consistently than FXD (the J6 you've previously seen at Warley last year had no clean up at all but I regret not having done so now). So why have I used Shapeways for these? This is because the B9 requires physical supports that a grown in the same material as and as part of the printed model which require cutting off once printing is complete. For a tank locomotive (or anything with five very visible sides), this always results in a loss of detail on one face which I find unacceptable - in these cases the rear of the bunker. However, tender locomotives or items small enough to fit inside the build area are fine. FXD uses a wax to support the model which is subsequently melted away. This does leave imperfections on the surface but these are easier to clean away than to completely replace.

 

I can't see any reason why models could not be printed in the larger scales however, these would be much more expensive than 2mm/N gauge as, for example, to simply scale up an N gauge model would require eight times the volume of material and twice the printing time. I believe that there are several people already doing this - there is certainly a nice N1 body (AjModels from around £90) to fit the Hornby N2 chassis out there. Personally, I think it would be most cost effective in the larger scales to use the fettled print as a master for casting but will freely admit this isn't something I've investigated. I do believe that OO Work do, or have, used a 3D printed master in just this way for their models. Perhaps this is something to look at for body only kits in the larger scales along the lines of Dean Sidings (did precision take these on?) and Golden Arrow Models. Would anyone be interested in these?

[coachmann]

Not now, for this is Hornby's rendition. Rob Davey weathered this example, which brings it to life. It's superior in just about every way to the printed-side Mopok equivalent, but (apart from the weathering) it's exactly the same as every other RTR one. That's not the 'Bytham' way. 

It may be like everyone else's Hornby Hawksworth full brake, although you have weathered yours, but I wonder how people noticed Hornby went to the trouble of making the correct 'freight Pressed Steel' bogie for this vehicle. Not just short steps as on Centenary stock, but shorter springs than on passenger stock.  I spot lots of little things on ready-to-run items that frankly amaze me for mass-produced items. I suspect the only kitbuilt models that can compete are those built by the super-detail fanatics.

Edited October 5, 2017 by coachmann

[St Enodoc]

You do John,

 

I think it's one of a pair of Mopok Hawksworths which I considered selling to you - when the World was young, etc, etc.........

 

I don't know who built it, though it is basically sound. I acquired both this BG and a BCK as part of a second-hand deal many moons ago. The problem was with the bogies, which had ancient Jackson stub axles. Since these carriages weigh a proverbial 'ton', with their wood and white metal construction, then shifting them with their 'brakes on' required a great deal of tractive effort. Thus, I took the bogies apart (which were glued together), inserted pin-point bearings, substituted more recent pin-point axles and soldered them back together. 

 

Time was when building such items from kits/scratch was the only means of acquiring one. 

 

Rolling stock 13.jpg

 

Not now, for this is Hornby's rendition. Rob Davey weathered this example, which brings it to life. It's superior in just about every way to the printed-side Mopok equivalent, but (apart from the weathering) it's exactly the same as every other RTR one. That's not the 'Bytham' way. 

 

The vehicle to its right is an old Tr-ang Southern bogie van to which I fitted all the bits and pieces (supplied by whom?) to turn it into something it should have looked like, and the one to its left is an old PC Gresley BG in carmine/cream livery (another with pre-printed sides). Both these pieces of 'book end' antiquity date from my modelling of over 40 years ago!

That's right, in the good old days of Friday nights operating Whitchurch. I've now got several of each - Hornby of course. Hooray for RTR!

 

I will add, though, that they all have different numbers and in due course some will get roof boards and/or parcels train/milk train branding as well.

 

I've got a detailed Tri-ang bogie van too - the parts you mention were (are?) from Roxey Mouldings.

 

Edit: Still available: http://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/56/4a250-detailing-kit-for-triang/Hornby-utility-van/

Edited October 5, 2017 by St Enodoc

[Atso]

Just to show the last few areas I need to clean up, here is an extreme close up of the front end of the N2. The coin balanced on the tank side is a ten pence piece to give an indication just how enlarged the photo actually is. I could probably leave this as is now but it would annoy me as I know I can get a little better with regards to the finish yet.

 

 

By comparison, here is an extreme close up of my (just about) finished K3 which was printed on my own machine to give an indication how these prints can be made to look (a shame it highlights the slight chips in the running plate and other flaws!).

 

 

Buffers, handrails, lamp irons and coupling hook are all turned/etched brass aftermarket parts while the vac pipe was scratchbuilt out of some guitar wire and a handrail knob.

 

Would you believe that the donor chassis for both locomotives started life as Graham Farish N classes?

 

 

 

 

[glo41f]

Thank you for the Brit pictures. They bought tears to my jaded eyes (well at least the ones with the BR1 tenders did.)  

 

Mention has been made of Mopok kits. Whilst lacking in detail, for their time the finish was better than most of us could hope to achieve and they were relatively easy to make. The same could be written about the PC models kits which with care could make up well. Both were let down rather not by the design but by the rather weak glues that were available at the time which often cased the models to fail rather spectacularly. The Tri-ang bogie utility van could be enhanced using a white metal set of parts in a green box from from Roxey Mouldings as far as I recall. It had bogies and corridor connections and one had to take off the opening doors and glue them into the door frames thereby eliminating the huge hinges. It still remained a bit short but it looked the part and scaled up quite nicely. It was possible to correct the length too it it really bugged the owner,  I did two of them one in green and one in maroon as I rather like these vehicles (and have a couple in 7mm now!) They were to be seen all over the network often far from the Southern system. I also liked the Hornby 4 wheel version though it was a rather garish green. Again very successful vehicles and still to be found on a number of heritage lines. We also had one of the Hawksworth full brakes on duty on the GE as it regularly worked "Enparts"" from Stratford to Norwich and March. At that time is was in corporate blue livery.

 

The N scale N2 looks nice. What an admirable use of technology too.  I had one produced by Trackmaster which was clockwork powered. It was to correct scale length too. Inevitably the spring went and spares were there none. Did anyone else have one of these old stagers and do they still exist anywhere?  I am making one in 7mm but have to arrive at a decision as to the type. We had a few of the non condensing ones locally where their speed on cross country journeys was appreciated, However to my eye they look rather naked and I would prefer to do a condensing one which of course tended not to stray far from the Capital and certainly not to rural East Anglia. So it sits in its box awaiting a decision.

 

Martin Long

[Atso]

The N scale N2 looks nice. What an admirable use of technology too.  I had one produced by Trackmaster which was clockwork powered. It was to correct scale length too. Inevitably the spring went and spares were there none. Did anyone else have one of these old stagers and do they still exist anywhere?  I am making one in 7mm but have to arrive at a decision as to the type. We had a few of the non condensing ones locally where their speed on cross country journeys was appreciated, However to my eye they look rather naked and I would prefer to do a condensing one which of course tended not to stray far from the Capital and certainly not to rural East Anglia. So it sits in its box awaiting a decision.

 

Thank you Martin. Around an hours work (and waiting all afternoon for the primer to dry enough to handle the models) after the initial post this morning the N2 and V1 now look like this...

 

 

 

The ever so slight stratification remaining on the V1's tank is 16 microns in height (approximately 0.00063 inches if I've gotten my maths right) and will not be visible once painted and lined so I think I'm happy enough with these to progress to the start of the detailing and painting stage.

[Tony Wright]

I've just spent a most splendid day among very good friends round at Roy Jackson's/Geoff Kent's. Retford was run, but I concentrated on getting some more shots of Geoff's Black Lion Halt. 

 

This is all-round modelling of the highest standard. No RTR-dependence here and it was a joy to see. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks to all in attendance for a most-entertaining day. All are modellers, all are doers of things for themselves (and for others). It's a privilege to be in such company. 

 

 

 

 

[Lecorbusier]

I've just spent a most splendid day among very good friends round at Roy Jackson's/Geoff Kent's. Retford was run, but I concentrated on getting some more shots of Geoff's Black Lion Halt. 

 

This is all-round modelling of the highest standard. No RTR-dependence here and it was a joy to see. 

 

Black Lion 17.jpg

 

Black Lion 18.jpg

 

Black Lion 21.jpg

 

Thanks to all in attendance for a most-entertaining day. All are modellers, all are doers of things for themselves (and for others). It's a privilege to be in such company. 

Fantastic photos again. The depth of field makes it. Any clue/hints?

[PMP]

As usual with Mr Jackson and Mr Kent hosting, it was a cracking day with excellent company and inspiring modelling.

[St Enodoc]

Thank you for the Brit pictures. They bought tears to my jaded eyes (well at least the ones with the BR1 tenders did.)  

 

Mention has been made of Mopok kits. Whilst lacking in detail, for their time the finish was better than most of us could hope to achieve and they were relatively easy to make. The same could be written about the PC models kits which with care could make up well. Both were let down rather not by the design but by the rather weak glues that were available at the time which often cased the models to fail rather spectacularly. The Tri-ang bogie utility van could be enhanced using a white metal set of parts in a green box from from Roxey Mouldings as far as I recall. It had bogies and corridor connections and one had to take off the opening doors and glue them into the door frames thereby eliminating the huge hinges. It still remained a bit short but it looked the part and scaled up quite nicely. It was possible to correct the length too it it really bugged the owner,  I did two of them one in green and one in maroon as I rather like these vehicles (and have a couple in 7mm now!) They were to be seen all over the network often far from the Southern system. I also liked the Hornby 4 wheel version though it was a rather garish green. Again very successful vehicles and still to be found on a number of heritage lines. We also had one of the Hawksworth full brakes on duty on the GE as it regularly worked "Enparts"" from Stratford to Norwich and March. At that time is was in corporate blue livery.

 

The N scale N2 looks nice. What an admirable use of technology too.  I had one produced by Trackmaster which was clockwork powered. It was to correct scale length too. Inevitably the spring went and spares were there none. Did anyone else have one of these old stagers and do they still exist anywhere?  I am making one in 7mm but have to arrive at a decision as to the type. We had a few of the non condensing ones locally where their speed on cross country journeys was appreciated, However to my eye they look rather naked and I would prefer to do a condensing one which of course tended not to stray far from the Capital and certainly not to rural East Anglia. So it sits in its box awaiting a decision.

 

Martin Long

That's the one Martin. There were buffers, roof vents and a few etched parts in the box too.

[cctransuk]

The Tri-ang bogie utility van ..... It still remained a bit short but it looked the part and scaled up quite nicely.

 

I've got a couple, too.

 

The only let-down was a rather unfortunate early flowering of 'design-clever'; the plank joints were ribs rather than grooves!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Tony Wright]

Fantastic photos again. The depth of field makes it. Any clue/hints?

Thanks for your comments.

 

I've mentioned my current approach to model railway photography before, but I'll just note a few points for those who might be interested. 

 

Camera: Nikon Df, full-frame digital SLR.

 

Lenses: Nikon 35mm, minimum aperture F29. Or, Nikon 55mm Micro, minimum aperture between F32 and F45. 

 

Lighting: ambient, plus pulses of fill-in flash.

 

Exposures: always minimum aperture, 100 ASA (equivalent), usually between six and ten seconds dependent on lighting. If I use my photofloods (not yesterday), then exposures are usually a third less. 

 

I always shoot in tif (because I don't understand RAW) and do everything manually.

 

Processing: No more than a little sharpening, softening of shadows (if necessary) using curves, and backgrounds taken out using the lasso (freehand) tool in point-to-point mode (NEVER smart edge, which is anything but) to isolate the area, then flood-fill. 

 

I never submit pictures unless I've done all the processing (just as I did in film days) and always prefer muted colours (Geoff's layout colours were perfect, anyway). 

 

Now, in grumpy-git mode..............

 

I cannot get on with little cameras (I never have been able to), don't employ stacking, preferring to get depth of field optically rather than digitally. Why? One, because, even though Andy York explained the stacking process to me, he didn't understand how dim the recipient was, and, two, I dislike the aberrations which occur in the stacking process - weird track effects and 'wobbly' trains at times. Occasionally 'bendy trains' will be blamed on the camera (no stacking), which is nonsense in my view. In a single shot, a decent camera shows what's actually there. If a train is bent, then it's bent! 

 

One thing I find these days is that (because digital photography is easier?), 'everyone' seems to think they're a photographer. I've seen some recently-published work which I think is awful - filled in shadows, muddy colours, product shots not all in focus; really, in my view, little short of snapshots (I don't include the likes of Andy York in this category, of course). Even when pictures are all in focus, the opposite of 'muddy' colours is too opposite, with a lurid and garish appearance. 

 

I make no personal claims with regard to my own (model railway) photography, other than to state that for over 20 years I earned a crust by it. I still do a bit for the magazines these days, but not too much in retirement. The pictures I've taken of Black Lion Halt will eventually appear in BRM. 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

 

 

 Occasionally 'bendy trains' will be blamed on the camera (no stacking), which is nonsense in my view. In a single shot, a decent camera shows what's actually there. If a train is bent, then it's bent! 

 

 

 

A bendy train like this...........

 

The problem often with articulated stock I'm afraid!

 

Nikon Df, 55mm Micro, focus set to 3' (loco 2' from camera), minimum aperture (near) F45, and everything in focus, apart from the ground doll in the foreground, which, I hope, the eye looks beyond). 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Barry O]

I have been fortunate to weather a number of locos seen on Carlisle. My favourite one is

 

 

Duchess of Rutland. Built by Mike Edge, painted by Coachman many moons ago. Mike then rechassied it for EM.

 

It had some wear and tare but was "shed cleaned" - as shown below

 

 

as usual I used ink and powders and in this instance some very good car polish which buffed up well on the Cellulose paint used.

 

Why the ink instead of paint? Well I can take it off if the client doesn't like it.

 

Baz

 

 

[Lecorbusier]

I have been fortunate to weather a number of locos seen on Carlisle. My favourite one is

 

 

Duchess of Rutland. Built by Mike Edge, painted by Coachman many moons ago. Mike then rechassied it for EM.

 

It had some wear and tare but was "shed cleaned" - as shown below

 

 

as usual I used ink and powders and in this instance some very good car polish which buffed up well on the Cellulose paint used.

 

Why the ink instead of paint? Well I can take it off if the client doesn't like it.

 

Baz

Interested by the car polish. Would this work equally well on enamels where you wanted to put a bit of shine back? How does it interact with the powders?

Edited October 6, 2017 by Lecorbusier

[Atso]

RM Little Bytham 07.jpg

 

A bendy train like this...........

 

The problem often with articulated stock I'm afraid!

 

Nikon Df, 55mm Micro, focus set to 3' (loco 2' from camera), minimum aperture (near F45), and everything in focus, apart from the ground doll in the foreground, which, I hope, the eye looks beyond). 

 

Having a bit of a fascination about articulated stock, I paid close attention to several of your sets during our group's visit to Little Bytham. I have to say that the discrepancy in the ride heights highlighted in your photograph were completely unnoticeable both while running on the layout and under closer scrutiny while parked in the fiddle yard.

 

Returning back to 3D printing for a moment, if I may...

 

Having finally received some parts for my own machine, it went back into action last night and printed my K3/1 body as a test print. I've given this an airbrushing of Tamiya matt black and removed the supports, otherwise the print is as it came off the machine and is once again show as an extreme close up.

 

 

I like to use Tamiya for the initial few primer coats due to it's amazingly quick drying time and I've used black simply to provide the best contrast to the natural colour of the resin to making it easier for me to see how much I've sanded. You can see the horrible yellow colour of the resin from my machine where I've removed some of the supports used to keep the model in one piece during the printing process. You can see in this warts and all photograph that there is some banding along the length of the boiler (the print was 'grown' from the cab downwards) but I hope that the ten pence piece gives a sense of scale here. The banding is literally microns thick and, as you can hopefully see from the top of the boiler, removed fairly easily with some sanding sticks and/or fine wet and dry in a matter of minutes - the be fair the banding is possibly a little heavier than it could be and I'll have to play with the settings of the machine to reduce it over the next few prints.

 

Compared with Shapeways Frosted Ultra/Extreme Detail (FUD/FXD respectively) materials, this print will be easier to clean up but I am limited with certain geometries using this material compared to FUD/FXD (which is better for tank engines printed in one piece) as you can see by the lack of turn ins at the back of the cab - I could have printed these but experience suggests that I'll most likely end up with a variable quality in N gauge but I would probably be ok with a 4mm model due to the size (although I'd be pushing the limits of the maximum build area of my machine!). I expect that this K3 print will take around an hour to an hour and a half to clean up to the same standard as my K3/3 pictured previously.

 

Sorry about the dust and fingerprints on the model but this paint layer will be completely removed to prove that I have gotten every surface smooth.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Atso

[richard i]

Have been experimenting with using left over / time expired make up to do weathering. Out of necessity because of where I live.

 

The model is not a hard one to make, it was to hand to allow some experimenting.

The make up comes with a brush as well to apply it. Like games work shop the colours have strange names, except in the make up they are called party kitten or stiletto queen. Get past that and they go on fine and can be cleaned off with thinners like traditional washes can

.

Just a thought as women are always throwing make up out as life expired or not a shade they use.

Richard

[Hroth]

Have been experimenting with using left over / time expired make up to do weathering. Out of necessity because of where I live.

 

The model is not a hard one to make, it was to hand to allow some experimenting.

The make up comes with a brush as well to apply it. Like games work shop the colours have strange names, except in the make up they are called party kitten or stiletto queen. Get past that and they go on fine and can be cleaned off with thinners like traditional washes can

.IMG_3449.JPG

IMG_3450.JPG

Just a thought as women are always throwing make up out as life expired or not a shade they use.

Richard

Also, poundshops are a good source of interesting shades and cheaper than buying the hobbyist stuff.

 

Of course, you've got to harden yourself to the funny looks when you're browsing the makeup shelves.....

[Hroth]

RM Little Bytham 07.jpg

 

A bendy train like this...........

 

The problem often with articulated stock I'm afraid!

 

Nikon Df, 55mm Micro, focus set to 3' (loco 2' from camera), minimum aperture (near F45), and everything in focus, apart from the ground doll in the foreground, which, I hope, the eye looks beyond). 

Tony, I'd say that the plane of sharpness starts at the leading edge of the barrow crossing, the crossbeam of the buffer stop looks slightly soft too.  Apart from that, a terrific shot and I'm thinking that in real life, a shot from that spot, trying to get the loco and train in focus, would result in the foreground being thrown out anyway!

 

(And apart from the humpty third coach, the degree ot naturalness is amazing.  now how about some smoke and steam effects.......   )

 

I swear, I proofread before clicking post, but still... Grrr!!!

Edited October 6, 2017 by Hroth

[Richard E]

Have been experimenting with using left over / time expired make up to do weathering. Out of necessity because of where I live.

 

The model is not a hard one to make, it was to hand to allow some experimenting.

The make up comes with a brush as well to apply it. Like games work shop the colours have strange names, except in the make up they are called party kitten or stiletto queen. Get past that and they go on fine and can be cleaned off with thinners like traditional washes can

.IMG_3449.JPG

IMG_3450.JPG

Just a thought as women are always throwing make up out as life expired or not a shade they use.

Richard

Couldn't you have found something that would have worked over Shap, then we could have quipped about the Long Drag.

 

Sorry, coat and hat already in hand ...

[Tony Wright]

Having a bit of a fascination about articulated stock, I paid close attention to several of your sets during our group's visit to Little Bytham. I have to say that the discrepancy in the ride heights highlighted in your photograph were completely unnoticeable both while running on the layout and under closer scrutiny while parked in the fiddle yard.

 

 

 

 

 

As always, thanks Steve,

 

What you've mentioned illustrates perfectly the big difference between first-hand perception and a photograph. The naked eye just 'dismisses' many things which are out of kilter, and just takes in the whole model railway scene. Look at a layout at an exhibition or at home and the eye doesn't bother too much with poor modelling (unless it's really bad) or peripherals. Yet, take a picture, and wonky track, leaning signals/telegraph poles, gaps underneath buildings, vehicles off the track in sidings, bendy stock, fat bellies, gaps in backscenes, coffee cups, barriers and other myriad 'intrusions' jump right out at you.  

 

The 'true' test of a model's quality is to take a picture of it (a sharp picture). When I do, it shows me how much I need to do better!