Wright writes.....

[cctransuk]

Talking about soldering, or in my case unsoldering. I managed to pop out the slightly wonky panel on the brake compartment doors from the BCK up thread. It is now back in position with only light retouching required.The carriage is now lightly weathered and lined out, just in time for the Wakefield exhibition next weekend. In the meantime back to wheel cleaning.

 

Regarding unsoldering, I recently bought one of these for a controller project - but I can see uses for it in kit-building.

 

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/desoldering-guns-pumps/4794197/

 

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Gilbert]

Until I learned to solder I was very wary of the process and not at all confident.  In, I think, 2007 a one day soldering course was offered at Scaleforum with expert tuition.  It was possibly the best £20 I have ever spent.

 

 

Ditto at Gauge O Guild at Telford several years ago - the cost for the 3 hour tutorial did not even cover the Connoisseur kit and Slaters wheels I left with - brilliant course

 

Chris

[Lecorbusier]

Tim,

 

There is no better example than St. Merryn of how good a P4 layout can look and (most important) can run. This is because the team who built it is comprised of some very high-standard modellers. Standards achieved by only a few in my experience. That's not to say I don't believe you're incapable of building to high standards (you've shown your work), but the gauge is definitely not for all. It's definitely not for me because I'm not a skilled enough modeller. This is not false-modesty, just fact. 

 

It would seem that OO Gauge is not for all if the running on one 16.5mm system was anything to go by at Spalding (though it did get better, to be fair). Even EM was not exempt - pretty structures, but inconsistent running and non-working signals. 

 

I return again to my list of essentials with regard to my own modelling/model railway, and, because of these, my choice to work with a group and also to make many things myself, in OO. The list includes......

 

1. A prototype depiction of the ECML in BR steam days.

2. The size enabling the running of prototype-length express and goods trains - at speed. 

3. Because of 2, excellent trackwork, made, laid and wired to a very high standard, set on very good baseboards. 

4. Some 45 complete trains needed to run the sequence.

5. All signals to be fully operational.

6. All trains to carry appropriate front and rear lamps.

7. Running to be as 'perfect' as possible. By that I mean (other than due to operator incompetence) no stuttering locos, no jerking stock, every loco capable of taking its train and no derailments.

8. Buildings to be as realistic as possible (hence my need to work in a group).

 

There are other peripherals. 

 

Obviously, I can admire other railways in other gauges but only if they satisfy points 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8. St. Merryn did just that. Some others didn't at Spalding (and at many shows I attend). 

Time will tell ... the truth of the pudding and all that.

 

I don't profess to any preternatural skill and have no idea if I will succeed ... just keen to have a bash. I fully accept that there will be a skill level which will need to be achieved and we will see if I am up to it, but I also suspect that there will also need to be a fair degree of bloody mindedness coupled to a high degree of determination as well ... ie succeeding needs to be important enough to you. 

[coachmann]

If women of all ages could solder all day in Ferrantis for a living, why do men think they are different?

[LNER4479]

As promised, the list of Lawrence carriages in OO coming up for sale. I imagine the carriage number is at the end.

 

1 LMS Stove R. 32946

 

2. LMS Stanier 68' 3rd Dining Car. 142

 

3. LMS Stanier 68' Sleeping Car. 712

 

4. LMS Stanier Vestibule 1st/3rd. 9748

 

5. LMS Stanier Neutral. 7688

 

6. LMS Stanier Kitchen Car. 30078

 

7. LNWR Non-corridor arc-roofed 3rd Brake. 7289.

 

8. LNWR Corridor Full Brake arc-roofed. 8741

 

9. LNWR Motor Driver Trailer elliptical roof. 7321

 

10. LNWR Motor Trailer elliptical roof. 827

 

11. LNWR 68' elliptical roof Sleeping Saloon. 448

 

12. LNWR 44' elliptical roof Full Brake. 8006

 

13. LNWR Motor Trailer Brake elliptical roof. 7435

 

14. LBSC 6-wheeled Brake. 269

 

15. MR 48' 4 Compt Brake. 597

 

16. MR 48' All Third. 1477

 

17. MR 48' Composite. 144

 

18. LNWR Motor Trailer 1st/3rd elliptical roof. 2735

 

19. LNWR 57' Full elliptical roofed 3rd Corridor. 806

 

20. LNWR 57' Full elliptical roofed 1st Corridor. 4537

 

21. LNWR Motor Trailer Third full elliptical roof. 7424

 

22. GCR Barnum Saloon. 95

 

23. GCR Barnum Saloon. 97

 

24. LNWR 6-wheeled Brake Van

 

25. FR 1st/3rd Brake. 43 (made for Vaughan Robinson). 

 

26. MR Coke Truck. 85647

 

27. LNWR 57' Tri-Composite Brake non-Corridor, full elliptical roof. 954

 

28. LNWR 68' full elliptical roofed Sleeping Saloon 6032

 

29. LNWR 45' arc-roofed Corridor Full Brake. 8724

 

30. LNWR 57' full elliptical roofed Corridor Brake Third. 7131.

 

31. MR 45' non-corridor Composite baggage. 3543

 

32. LSWR All 3rd Gateway. 739

 

33. LSWR 1st/3rd Brake Composite Gateway. 3200

 

34. LNWR Day Saloon. 5122 (one of twin set, see next)

 

35 LNWR 42' Day Saloon. 5123 (see above)

 

36. LNWR 42' 3rd Class Club Car. 5238

 

37. LNWR 42' Lavatory Tri-Composite. 573

 

38. MR 40' Brake Composite

 

39. NSR 4-wheeled Milk Van. 319

 

40. WCJS 64' TPO. 452

 

41. WCJS 50' TPO. 197

 

42. L&Y Brake Third. 624

 

43. L&Y Composite. 1089

 

44. LMS 68' Dining Car. 231

 

45. LMS 57' Experimental Buffet Car. 40

 

46. NSR 6-wheeled Louvred Truck. 179

 

47. NSR Converted Carriage Truck. 121.

 

48. NSR 35' 6-Wheeled Lavatory Composite. 243

 

49. NSR 35' 6-Wheeled Third. 57

 

50. MR 31' 6-Wheeled Brake. 29

 

53. LMS ist Class Corridor Vestibule coach. 15540

 

57. LNWR Corridor Brake 1st. 5603

 

58. MR 1st Class. 3079 (Ratio)

 

59. MR 3rd Class. 345 (Ratio)

 

60. MR 3rd Class Brake Van. 112 (Ratio)

 

As far as is known, all the above were built by Lawrence/Goddard and (apart from the Ratio cars) are in metal. 

 

There is also a locomotive.

 

GCR Sir Sam Fay Class 427 CITY OF LONDON (built for JR Marloy)

 

Anyone interested, please PM me with e-mail and I'll pass on details. All are being sold through the GOG Executors Committee on behalf of a bereaved family. 

 

Many thanks. 

Presumably, Tony, these coaches are in the livery of the pre-group company or LMS as listed?

[Tony Wright]

Time will tell ... the truth of the pudding and all that.

 

I don't profess to any preternatural skill and have no idea if I will succeed ... just keen to have a bash. I fully accept that there will be a skill level which will need to be achieved and we will see if I am up to it, but I also suspect that there will also need to be a fair degree of bloody mindedness coupled to a high degree of determination as well ... ie succeeding needs to be important enough to you. 

Tim,

 

Having those attitudes, I know you'll succeed. Good luck to you. 

[Tony Wright]

Presumably, Tony, these coaches are in the livery of the pre-group company or LMS as listed?

Graham,

 

Yes, as far as I know.

 

I haven't seen them, though I'm told (as expected) the finish is superb. 

[Tony Wright]

I can't claim to have had the experience of your good self of inspecting a vast number of other peoples kits, I'm just going on personal experience.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Modellers who can't solder perhaps don't build full loco kits, although I have seen fully glued etched kits, admittedly, not over a long timescale, which worked adequately, but there is no reason to not glue a wagon kit or scenic accessory together.

Despite yours and John Isherwoods assertions that soldering is not a black art, it is to some people and they would never consider it, just because the rest of us can doesn't make those who can't chumps.

Besides, I've had soldered bits fall off, so I must be in soldering chumps club!

 

Mike.

Thanks again, Mike,

 

I've had some glued-together loco kits which I've just been able to take apart with my fingers. The adhesives appear to be UHU, Bostik or Evo Stik. Not good for the purpose in my view. Even some fixed together with epoxy have come apart with ease. As for superglue, not for loco kits in my view. 

 

Of course one can glue together wagon kits or scenic accessories. If they're not made of metal, how else would one do it? 

 

And, I've never called those who can't solder 'chumps' (though it might be applicable to those who won't even try). The epithet was given to those who advise gluing nickel silver/etched brass/white metal kits together (in preference to soldering) through their writings, blogs or instructions. I consider the word chump applicable there, because I believe their advice is unsound, and, thus, misleading. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[46256]

Good afternoon Tony, in respect of the lack of bits and pieces of interest at the Spalding show, I fear that will also be the case at  Warley, with certain notable exceptions . in any event I will be attending on the Sunday, not least hoping to see Mike Edge's Fell loco going through its paces on the Leeds MRS Layout.

 

I will if I may speak with you, if you are free to do so ( last year there seemed a never ending queue in front of you)

 

best wishes Brian

[Clive Mortimore]

Regarding unsoldering, I recently bought one of these for a controller project - but I can see uses for it in kit-building.

 

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/desoldering-guns-pumps/4794197/

 

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

My most used tool when I worked at Marconi's as an assembly inspector.

[Clive Mortimore]

I find this conversation about people not soldering a wee bit upsetting. A question to Tony, did all the children you taught art have the ability to draw a human hand which I understand to be one of the hardest parts of the human body recreate on paper?

 

I know from my experiences in life I cannot do everything that people have tried to teach me. I remember my PE teachers face when he was trying to teach me how to throw the discus. He asked were all my family blessed with my inability to co-ordinate my mind and body, and I replied I don't think so as my dad's two brothers are PE teachers.

 

I have tried to teach people nursing procedures, simple ones like doing an aseptic dressing, and before losing it I remembered my PE teacher's face. Some people cannot master certain skills no matter how easy you or I think that task is.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Clive Mortimore

[chris p bacon]

I I remember my PE teachers face when he was trying to teach me how to throw the discus. He asked were all my family blessed with my inability to co-ordinate my mind and body, and I replied I don't think so as my dad's two brothers are PE teachers.

 

Off Topic but we had a similar Games teacher at Stratton*. As part of sports we did the 100yds, as we crossed the line (I was 4 of 6) I remember those words given to the person who came second "Well done boy, 2nd, the first of the losers"

From that point on I didn't bother with any more sports even though I was picked for school team.

 

* his name was Richardson so we called him 'Dick by name, Dick by nature' 

[Headstock]

Perhaps if people were aware that it is easier to solder (or bolt in part) a metal kit together than it is to try and glue it. I certainly don't possess the skill level or have the time available to obtain a reasonable result with glue on such a project.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Headstock

[cctransuk]

Some people cannot master certain skills no matter how easy you or I think that task is.

 

Fair enough, but they must accept the fact that there are consequences - such as being unable to build Finecast A4s.

 

I do not have, nor want to have, the skill to ride a motorcycle - but I wouldn't try to compete in the IoM TT !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Richard E]

If women of all ages could solder all day in Ferrantis for a living, why do men think they are different?

Is that because women can multi-task and, allegedly, men cannot?

 

Or is it down to another one that women have a higher pain threshold than men and are not worried by burns from the iron quite so much?

[jamie92208]

Is that because women can multi-task and, allegedly, men cannot?

 

Or is it down to another one that women have a higher pain threshold than men and are not worried by burns from the iron quite so much?

 

Whisper it not in front of the domestic authorities but I believe that men actually have higher pain thresholds.  Something to do with evolution and the need to ignore scratches when hunting prey in days gone by.

 

Jamie

[mdh1950]

I was reticent about soldering until I saw one of Tony's DVDs - it was a revelation! I am a still a beginner, gaining experience with lineside buildings (Severn Models) and a wagon or two (Lochgorm) before embarking on my first locomotive a London Road Models J65.

 

I share Tony's issues with some exhibition layouts but would add the frequent inability to properly accelerate, control speed and decelerate.

 

Michael

[Lecorbusier]

It is known some people are born with skills. Being able to draw is one!  It depends on hand control and a photographic memory which can carry an image to draw on at a later date. But I have never heard it said that person is a born solderer! Most of life's skill are developed later in life. Soldering is nothing more than applying diluted acid to a joint, carrying solder on the end of a hot stick and holding it on said joint (yes, there are other ways of soldering too). It is easier to pick up soldering than ironing a shirt or kicking a football in the correct manner. All of us on forums learned to find our way around a home computer and that didn't happen over night. Some people took months and a mess of money to learn to drive a car. There are folk who are skilled at managing people, trained in repairing human bodies or road vehicles, yet they say rather feebly they cannot solder! Soldering can be learned in seconds. 

 

There are plenty of WorkBench threads on RMweb, so maybe it is time someone did a WB on the basics of soldering in weekly parts! ....What to purchase and how to do it.  Video would be the greatest assist. Sign up today and Tony W. is your man......  

I would add to this ... just think of our standard hand eye skills. The majority can write ... and if necessary write neatly. This is a high level of hand eye coordination and it is learnt - just have a go at writing with your other hand.  We will not all be great calligraphers, but proficiency is certainly achievable.

[Clive Mortimore]

Tim,

 

There is no better example than St. Merryn of how good a P4 layout can look and (most important) can run. This is because the team who built it is comprised of some very high-standard modellers. Standards achieved by only a few in my experience. That's not to say I don't believe you're incapable of building to high standards (you've shown your work), but the gauge is definitely not for all. It's definitely not for me because I'm not a skilled enough modeller. This is not false-modesty, just fact. 

 

It would seem that OO Gauge is not for all if the running on one 16.5mm system was anything to go by at Spalding (though it did get better, to be fair). Even EM was not exempt - pretty structures, but inconsistent running and non-working signals. 

 

I return again to my list of essentials with regard to my own modelling/model railway, and, because of these, my choice to work with a group and also to make many things myself, in OO. The list includes......

 

1. A prototype depiction of the ECML in BR steam days.

2. The size enabling the running of prototype-length express and goods trains - at speed. 

3. Because of 2, excellent trackwork, made, laid and wired to a very high standard, set on very good baseboards. 

4. Some 45 complete trains needed to run the sequence.

5. All signals to be fully operational.

6. All trains to carry appropriate front and rear lamps.

7. Running to be as 'perfect' as possible. By that I mean (other than due to operator incompetence) no stuttering locos, no jerking stock, every loco capable of taking its train and no derailments.

8. Buildings to be as realistic as possible (hence my need to work in a group).

 

There are other peripherals. 

 

Obviously, I can admire other railways in other gauges but only if they satisfy points 3, 5, 6, 7 and 8. St. Merryn did just that. Some others didn't at Spalding (and at many shows I attend). 

Thank goodness I am building a stay at home train set, I think I would fail on many of the above.

 

1. A prototype depiction of the ECML in BR steam days. There will be some ER stock but mainly small engines and lots of diesels.

2. The size enabling the running of prototype-length express and goods trains - at speed. Prototype length DMUs, from 2 to 8 cars. Hauled trains will be locals so will not be long trains but appropriate formations. No freight trains, as it is a terminus station with the goods yard the other side of the road bridge.

3. Because of 2, excellent trackwork, made, laid and wired to a very high standard, set on very good baseboards. To the best of my abilities.

4. Some 45 complete trains needed to run the sequence. A sequence, timetable envisioned but space constraints come into play with the number of trains, it will be 20 plus.

5. All signals to be fully operational.To the best of my ability, colour lights LMS 1920s style if I can.

6. All trains to carry appropriate front and rear lamps. Will do my best.

7. Running to be as 'perfect' as possible. By that I mean (other than due to operator incompetence) no stuttering locos, no jerking stock, every loco capable of taking its train and no derailments. Will do my best.

8. Buildings to be as realistic as possible (hence my need to work in a group). Very few buildings are planned, not even a station building. I plan to have a inch maybe two of the concourse in front of the barriers so that the viewer looks down the platform. That is how I recall terminus stations, the imposing building was always behind me. Added to the fact a station building would mean this fat bloke wouldn't be able to get around the layout.

 

You are invited to come and have a play when it is up and running. I hope the operational aspect will hold peoples attention, along with a wide variety of stock.

[sp1]

Is that because women can multi-task and, allegedly, men cannot?

 

Or is it down to another one that women have a higher pain threshold than men and are not worried by burns from the iron quite so much?

I don’t believe women can multi-task - just try asking one to sit down AND shut up : they can’t do it......... :-)

[Lecorbusier]

I don’t believe women can multi-task - just try asking one to sit down AND shut up : they can’t do it......... :-)

[The Johnster]

I can't unitask, not well anyway...

[LNER4479]

I don’t believe women can multi-task - just try asking one to sit down AND shut up : they can’t do it......

Are there any women here today?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_hlMK7tCks

Edited November 13, 2017 by LNER4479

[grahame]

Is that because women can multi-task and, allegedly, men cannot?

 

Or is it down to another one that women have a higher pain threshold than men and are not worried by burns from the iron quite so much?

Maybe women are more used to weilding a hot iron, a steam iron from pressing men's shirts. :-)

 

G

[Lecorbusier]

Maybe women are more used to weilding a hot iron, a steam iron from pressing men's shirts. :-)

 

G

again ....