Wright writes.....

[westerner]

Found the first book/bookazine it was called BRM BRM A Century of Progress, also by Bob Essery.

[Tony Wright]

Nah, that was Len of the Vinci's, well know Italian engineer.

Thanks Jol,

 

I'm reminded of an art quiz I once participated in, where one of the questions was 'Where was Leonardo da Vinci born?'. Very few people put Vinci!

[thegreenhowards]

Hi Andy

 

Baseboards have been built and I have put down most the cork. I have just come out the model room where I was laying out the points to get some sense of how it will look. As for pictures there are a few of the construction on my Sheffield Exchange link in my signature.

 

Pre-Templot days I hand drew the 1946 to 77 track plan by hand, scaling it from a large scale OS map. It sat in my filing cabinet for years, when we moved last year and I turned 60 I had to admit defeat that I was never going to build it so I said bye bye as it went off with the recycling men. 6 months ago you could have had it had I known. I had worked out how many Craven DMUs, coaches, locos etc I would need to run the 1969 working time table. From photos of the time period I placed as many trains as I could on the right platforms and then guessed where the rest went.

 

While I was drawing it one evening there was a news flash about a fire at Kings Cross Station. I felt terrible there was I drawing something for pleasure, and at the same time at the real location people were dying. That night it put my hobby in its place.

 

Some nice pictures on the last page of your Sheffield Exchange thread, it should look impressive. The King's Cross fire takes me back. That was right at the start of my railway career, and I'm retired now! But, I know what you mean about putty the hobby in its place. It would have been an insensitive subject for a few years after that.

 

My attempt at the throat in Anyrail (OO gauge Peco 100) is below. It needs tidying, but I'll probably convert to code 75 if I ever build it. I've shrunk things slightly (mainly the platform widths), but I think it's remarkably compact (the squares are 1 foot).

 

[jacko]

I vividly remember 18th November 1987. I was working for the CEGB in Harrogate at the time and had been called to a meeting at the then Bankside Powerstation (now the Tate modern) and was due to travel back from kings cross sometime in the evening.  Luckily for us the meeting was over by lunchtime and we caught the York train mid afternoon but I remember being quite shocked looking at the news footage of melted escalators I'd been up the same day. Quite sobering. 

[St Enodoc]

I vividly remember 18th November 1987. I was working for the CEGB in Harrogate at the time and had been called to a meeting at the then Bankside Powerstation (now the Tate modern) and was due to travel back from kings cross sometime in the evening.  Luckily for us the meeting was over by lunchtime and we caught the York train mid afternoon but I remember being quite shocked looking at the news footage of melted escalators I'd been up the same day. Quite sobering. 

I rode up the same escalator at roughly the same time the previous day, on my way back to Leeds from a meeting in London.

[Anglian]

As Jacko writes – sobering moments. I was a student in London at the time of the last IRA bombing campaign in the UK. I missed three by a couple of hundred yards or less. Victoria Station, Knightsbridge and Long Acre. After the Bishopsgate one I can recall walking from Liverpool Street Station West and even after 15 minutes I could still see signs of damage.

 

In the days of Routemaster buses my No8 used to travel past the back of the Old Bailey. One day I saw a full postal style sack against the entrance that on occasion would have a dozen or so armed police guards. There were campaigns for the public to report suspicious packages and as luck would have it I soon spotted two police officers so I leapt off the back off the Routemaster, as it was caught in traffic and made my way to these two. I explained what I'd seen only to be met with the response 'what do you want us to do about it.' In those days I was a scruffy long haired art student but even so I suspected more from the Met. I'm told I'm well spoken, so perhaps that carried some weight as I suggested that they might want to report it, which they then did immediately. 

 

Edited January 25, 2018 by Anglian

[stewartingram]

Whilst working on the Underground, not long after the KGX bombing, I got on a Cicle line train in the 1st coach. (We always reckoned that it was less crowded than the centre of the train, and by that count potentially safer from terrorists - who knows?). I noticed an unattended bag near the front door, so quickly got off at Westminster, and reported it to a Staiion Assistant on the platform. TBH I was quite shocked at his response as he went to the bag, said something about @more lost property' and slung it onto the platform! Speaking later to a Station Supervisor (not the same station), he wasn't too surprised; he said you really can't be too careful, but in their training they were taught to be on the lookout for specific types of planted items, because in reality "everyday" items of lost property would bring the system to a grinding halt if all were though of as planted bombs.A bit of common sense and good training leading to filtering of information I guess?

 

Stewart

[drmditch]

I'm still re-building my railway, and haven't constructed any exciting engines recently (although I do have one in hand!), but here is an ex-GN Cattle Wagon.

 

 

 

 

One of my New Year resolutions is to improve the standard of my detail modelling, but as far as I know there is no kit available for this vehicle, so this one is all my own!

Source material comes from Peter Tatlow Volume 1, and Steve Banks' website http://steve-banks.org/images/historical/cattle_traffic/cattle_ex_gnr_e410234_2000_1200_72bu.jpg

Some mouldings come from Parkside, but the sides were scratchbuilt inside the Parkside 'frame'.

 

 

 

 

I'm quite pleased with the wagon plate though, which is just visible in the second picture!

Edited January 25, 2018 by drmditch

[Tony Wright]

I'm still re-building my railway, and haven't constructed any exciting engines recently (although I do have one in hand!), but here is an ex-GN Cattle Wagon.

 

 

Post_19.JPG

 

 

One of my New Year resolutions is to improve the standard of my detail modelling, but as far as I know there is no kit available for this vehicle, so this one is all my own!

Source material comes from Peter Tatlow Volume 1, and Steve Banks' website http://steve-banks.org/images/historical/cattle_traffic/cattle_ex_gnr_e410234_2000_1200_72bu.jpg

Some mouldings come from Parkside, but the sides were scratchbuilt inside the Parkside 'frame'.

 

 

Post_19a1.jpg

 

 

I'm quite pleased with the wagon plate though, which is just visible in the second picture!

Cracking stuff!

 

Thanks for posting.

[Atso]

I've been at it with the N gauge CAD again.

 

 

I've not quite finished with this one yet. With luck it might have become a physical model by the time I visit Tony next month.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Atso

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony

 

I cannot recall seeing it in full diesel mode but you know I like seeing steam as well. Stoke was a trainspotters layout with its constant running and it was fun to watch.

Some steam shots on Stoke Summit for you Clive.

 

Although almost all of the diesel-period stock has been sold on, just about everything seen in the following pictures now runs on Little Bytham......................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With the exception of 60034 (which is a much-modified Bachmann A4), I've built all these locos and made/modified some of the trains. The others are the work of Rob Kinsey, Dave Lewis and Tony Geary.

 

I don't think at the time we thought how 'revolutionary' the concept of Stoke Summit was (now 22 years since it was first built). What with just about everything which ran on it built (very, very little RTR) and correct train formations, I don't think anything on the same 'scale' (over 40 'correct' trains) had been attempted before in an exhibition layout. 

 

It proved to be a trainspotters' delight, and still lives on in use (though not with the original stock) in a Devon barn. 

[2750Papyrus]

Still one of my favourite exhibition layouts - just watching the (convincing) trains go by.

[glo41f]

Perhaps Stoke Summit in some respects " broke the mould" for model railways in its day in that it did not have stations (of necessity foreshortened) or any other reference points to take the focus away from the trains which were running. It was the embodiment of time spent at the lineside in those halcyon days where seemingly the sun was always shining and school was a log way off.  (I was usually at Westerfield bank on the East Suffolk line but I would like to have been at Stoke!) You never knew exactly what was coming next in those days. The trains also ran real distances at speed not ten feet into a fiddle yard only to return in three minutes. I first saw it at Ipswich I believe, when it was pretty new and I regret that I did not get to watch it much as I was duty dog in the catering area of the exhibition and those who have done this know that there is no let up in that department! As a concept it is timeless and as an exhibit it delivers what the public and the enthusiasts want. Those layouts which have followed the concept have mostly all been successful as, when it comes to the final analysis, we all like to watch trains running by! That is why successors like Holiday Haunts, Gamston Bank, The Summit etc are all so popular and fondly remembered. They deliver what we secretly want but feel too cowed by the High Fidelity Mafia to actually build!

 

Martin Long

[Clive Mortimore]

Some steam shots on Stoke Summit for you Clive.

 

Although almost all of the diesel-period stock has been sold on, just about everything seen in the following pictures now runs on Little Bytham......................

 

60030 05 BW.jpg

 

60034 on Up Talisman.jpg

 

60116 on Down Queen of Scots.jpg

 

60117 on Up Yorkshire Pullman.jpg

 

60504 on DownExpress.jpg

 

60510.jpg

 

60516 on cement 01.jpg

 

60847 on Up Saturday relief.jpg

 

DJH A2-2 02.jpg

 

Wills A4 on Car Carrier.jpg

 

With the exception of 60034 (which is a much-modified Bachmann A4), I've built all these locos and made/modified some of the trains. The others are the work of Rob Kinsey, Dave Lewis and Tony Geary.

 

I don't think at the time we thought how 'revolutionary' the concept of Stoke Summit was (now 22 years since it was first built). What with just about everything which ran on it built (very, very little RTR) and correct train formations, I don't think anything on the same 'scale' (over 40 'correct' trains) had been attempted before in an exhibition layout. 

 

It proved to be a trainspotters' delight, and still lives on in use (though not with the original stock) in a Devon barn. 

Hello Tony

 

It doesn't look like the same layout......where are all the heads in the way?

 

Thanks.

 

As I said in an earlier post I had thought of a tail chaser layout without a station, yard or loco depot before seeing Stoke Summit. I had no thought of stock beyond the motley collection my fellow club members had or of a location. The original idea was a four track main line out in the country, the center piece being a pair of river bridges towards the middle and the land rising back in each direction towards the storage sidings. To enable as many club members to run their stock it was to have very little in the way of identifying which railway it was supposed to portray. Of course with tracks the second you pair the fast lines and slow lines it says MR or GWR or you pair the Up lines and Down lines, GNR or LNWR. Bring it down to double track then the scenery would have to be exceptional to hold peoples attention, we knew our limits. Adding a loop like on Stoke, would mean a signal box and signals, which shout "This is XYZ Railway".

 

Real location and being strict with the stock is the only way to go. The rest of the club didn't seem keen on LMR Midland Division diesels. :dontknow:

[Tony Wright]

Hello Tony

 

It doesn't look like the same layout......where are all the heads in the way?

 

Thanks.

 

As I said in an earlier post I had thought of a tail chaser layout without a station, yard or loco depot before seeing Stoke Summit. I had no thought of stock beyond the motley collection my fellow club members had or of a location. The original idea was a four track main line out in the country, the center piece being a pair of river bridges towards the middle and the land rising back in each direction towards the storage sidings. To enable as many club members to run their stock it was to have very little in the way of identifying which railway it was supposed to portray. Of course with tracks the second you pair the fast lines and slow lines it says MR or GWR or you pair the Up lines and Down lines, GNR or LNWR. Bring it down to double track then the scenery would have to be exceptional to hold peoples attention, we knew our limits. Adding a loop like on Stoke, would mean a signal box and signals, which shout "This is XYZ Railway".

 

Real location and being strict with the stock is the only way to go. The rest of the club didn't seem keen on LMR Midland Division diesels. :dontknow:

Thanks Clive,

 

May I make one correction, please?

 

Like the MR and the GWR, the L&NWR also paired its four track sections by speed (with a few exceptions - parts of the N.W. Coast, for instance). From Euston as far as Roade, the fast lines were to the west, but between Stafford and Crewe, the fast lines were to the east. 

 

The GNR paired its four track sections by direction, as did the LNER (the section of the ex-NER between Northallerton and York). So did the L&SWR. 

 

There must have been odd sections which were different, but, you're right. Just by looking at the four track sections' pairings one can usually tell the railway of origin. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Anglian]

Chiltern Green was another layout that demoted the station and had full length trains running very much in they way Little Bytham does. I thought it was a fabulous concept with the viaduct taking centre stage. Importantly to me both display the trains on embankments which I think are preferable to cuttings since you see the train quite clearly.

 

I've always had a visual fascination with four track mainlines, there is something about a faster train overtaking a slower one that I find very pleasing to watch, more so than trains passing. I have no idea why this might be, perhaps this scenario conveys a notion of speed and a sense of the importance of the faster train, that adds an extra little visual drama.

 

A concept I rather like would be to model the Midland through the Peaks in winter snow to provide a near colour neutral background for the colourful trains. Icicles hanging off the rocks. It might even be possible to project a snow storm onto a back scene if the projector sat behind an arch framing the view, much like Copenhagen Fields. I've been thinking about skies recently after the discussion about back scenes and wonder if they are often not convincing as they aren't 'organic' enough. Projecting desaturated digital footage on to a back scene, if there is a wide enough angle lens, might be enough to add that extra element. The sky has to creep – too fast and it'll be too busy but increasingly I think this may be a solution. Arguably the sky back scene is often the largest single visual element and yet it is often an after-thought. Perhaps it should be the first thing to resolve since it often takes up so much space in the overall display.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Anglian

[FPH 603]

"I've always had a visual fascination with four track mainlines, there is something about a faster train overtaking a slower one that I find very pleasing to watch, more so than trains passing. I have no idea why this might be, perhaps this scenario conveys a notion of speed and a sense of the importance of the faster train, that adds an extra little visual drama."

Yes, I do find this sort of operation does attract a lot of interest. I guess it's just that you get to see more, and it's something that's pretty common on the real railway.

[Clive Mortimore]

Thanks Clive,

 

May I make one correction, please?

 

Like the MR and the GWR, the L&NWR also paired its four track sections by speed (with a few exceptions - parts of the N.W. Coast, for instance). From Euston as far as Roade, the fast lines were two the west, but between Stafford and Crewe, the fast lines were to the east. 

 

The GNR paired its four track sections by direction, as did the LNER (the section of the ex-NER between Northallerton and York). So did the L&SWR. 

 

There must have been odd sections which were different, but, you're right. Just by looking at the four track sections' pairings one can usually tell the railway of origin. 

Where did I get that this evening?

 

All I had to do was look at my own drawings.

[thegreenhowards]

Here is my latest attempt at making something. This is the ‘Ashburton Pullman’ which carried rubbish during the late fifties and sixties from Ashburton Grove (where Arsenal’s stadium is now - still full of rubbish!) to Blackbridge tip on the Hatfield to St Albans line. It used the LNER 50ton sulphate wagons as produced by Parkside Dundas which were steel sides with wooden doors...hence the slightly odd looking weathering which is evident on protoptype photos. I understand it was hauled by B1s and WD2-8-0s in steam days but I haven’t located any photos of such. In diesel days in started with Class 20s and then pairs of 15s.

 

Does anyone know how long these trains were? I’m working on six wagons because that’s what I had, but I suspect i might need another couple. The only reference I’ve found is 48 ‘basic wagon units’, mentioned in the Nov 1970 Railway World article but that was in the days on pairs of class 15s, so I’m hoping it was less in single class 20 days.

 

I know you regard wagons as slightly beneath you Tony, but I can build one in about the same time it takes you to build a loco so rather more practical for me, and at least these are bogie wagons so not quite the bottom of the food chain!

 

Sorry about the rather clean loco. That will be dealt with in time.

 

Thanks to Tony Teague for his photo on the viaduct using his fancy camera with automatic image stacking. Sorry, I couldn’t get to grips with adding a sky - too fiddly for me!

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited January 26, 2018 by thegreenhowards

[jwealleans]

I think Terry (manna) remembers these from his days at the Cross - you could PM him and ask if he doesn't see the post?

[CUTLER2579]

Tony,

i saw Stoke Summit on many occasions and never tired of it.In my humble opinion it was an iconic layout such as ,Borchester,Borchester Market, Biggleswadwe, High Dyke, Dunwich  and many others.

Also the John Houlden layout Gamston Bank bore a strong resembelance to Stoke Summit in it's philosophy of no station and correctly formed Trains in  a very strict timescale.

All of these layouts gave me enormous pleasure to see and that is after all one of the objectives of building an exhibition model railway layout.

Finally Sir,

I must comment on what was surely a typographical error. " the fast lines were two the west, but between Stafford and Crewe,.

 

See me at 4.00 young man        

Kind Regards,Derek.

Edited January 26, 2018 by CUTLER2579

[copleyhill007]

As I remember, Stoke Summit was a massive draw at most model railway shows. Brilliant!

[Fat Controller]

Here is my latest attempt at making something. This is the ‘Ashburton Pullman’ which carried rubbish during the late fifties and sixties from Ashburton Grove (where Arsenal’s stadium is now - still full of rubbish!) to Blackbridge tip on the Hatfield to St Albans line. It used the LNER 50ton sulphate wagons as produced by Parkside Dundas which were steel sides with wooden doors...hence the slightly odd looking weathering which is evident on protoptype photos. I understand it was hauled by B1s and WD2-8-0s in steam days but I haven’t located any photos of such. In diesel days in started with Class 20s and then pairs of 15s.

 

Does anyone know how long these trains were? I’m working on six wagons because that’s what I had, but I suspect i might need another couple. The only reference I’ve found is 48 ‘basic wagon units’, mentioned in the Nov 1970 Railway World article but that was in the days on pairs of class 15s, so I’m hoping it was less in single class 20 days.

 

I know you regard wagons as slightly beneath you Tony, but I can build one in about the same time it takes you to build a loco so rather more practical for me, and at least these are bogie wagons so not quite the bottom of the food chain!

 

Sorry about the rather clean loco. That will be dealt with in time.

 

Thanks to Tony Teague for his photo on the viaduct using his fancy camera with automatic image stacking. Sorry, I couldn’t get to grips with adding a sky - too fiddly for me!

 

Regards

 

AndyLJPP123018102180123.jpg75B43A90-F6DA-436F-BDC2-E10E4365DC35.jpeg

Each of these wagons would be about 3 Basic Wagon Units (the base was the 16t mineral), so the later trains would be equivalent to about 16 bogie wagons in length.

[gwrrob]

As I remember, Stoke Summit was a massive draw at most model railway shows. Brilliant!

 

So was it's stable mate Charwelton from what I remember.

[thegreenhowards]

Each of these wagons would be about 3 Basic Wagon Units (the base was the 16t mineral), so the later trains would be equivalent to about 16 bogie wagons in length.

 

Thanks Brian,

 

That's a long train! I thought I'd read that a BWU was 8 tons, but can't remember where. This photo certainly shows a shorter train, although in the post Sulphate wagon era so there is a precedent for shorter trains.

 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4151/5124315820_18a65fc020.jpg

 

Annoyingly the only picture I've found with a class 20 and the sulphate wagons doesn't show the whole train!

 

https://plus.google.com/photos/105067039766087617556/album/5665230405222071793/5665230872927477202

 

Andy