Wright writes.....

[chrisf]

I am sure that there were many more instances of tail traffic on dmus than have so far come to light.  Two examples from the winter 1961-62 timetable may be of interest.

 

1.  On Tuesdays and Fridays the 1.10 pm Kingswear -Exeter had a gas holder attached, presumably being returned empty to Exeter for refilling.

 

2.  The 4.30 am Newton Abbot - Paignton towed a full brake and a Fruit D.  The 5.40 am Paignton  - Newton Abbot, which went forward as the 6.25 am Newton Abbot - Exeter, towed a different full brake and Fruit D.  The 7.55 am Exeter -  Kingswear had yet a third Fruit D attached rear as far as Newton Abbot.

 

Both dmus were what bcame Class 118.

 

Chris 

[Re6/6]

http://www.railcar.co.uk/images/122/55010-hatton-13jun66.jpg

 

http://www.railcar.co.uk/images/uploads/120/1600/class-120-dmu-1487047786-1600.jpg

Edited July 16, 2018 by Re6/6

[4069]

After closure of the GC as a through route, a bogie van with newspapers for Aylesbury used to be tail traffic on a class 115 DMU leaving Marylebone mid-evening. I remember it as being the only even slightly interesting thing to see on the Met in the early 70s, in the rather dead period between the end of LT steam and the start of excursions with Sarah Siddons.

[great central]

I am sure that there were many more instances of tail traffic on dmus than have so far come to light. Two examples from the winter 1961-62 timetable may be of interest.

 

1. On Tuesdays and Fridays the 1.10 pm Kingswear -Exeter had a gas holder attached, presumably being returned empty to Exeter for refilling.

 

2. The 4.30 am Newton Abbot - Paignton towed a full brake and a Fruit D. The 5.40 am Paignton - Newton Abbot, which went forward as the 6.25 am Newton Abbot - Exeter, towed a different full brake and Fruit D. The 7.55 am Exeter - Kingswear had yet a third Fruit D attached rear as far as Newton Abbot.

 

Both dmus were what bcame Class 118.

 

Chris

Mentioned before but worth repeating I think. When the 114s were introduced in Lincolnshire the Skegness-Lincoln service reversed at Firsby. There was still quite a bit of tail traffic, not a problem with steam locos, but it now meant the DMU had to run round the van.

I presume this was done with passengers on board as well.

[Lecorbusier]

Tony,

 

Can I ask a question about the weighting of your locos and their interaction with the stock?

 

When I observe a heavily loaded train running a steam special on the mainline (8 or 10 coaches also pulling a backup diesel) The start out from the station or from a signal has to be managed with considerable care - a gentle hand on the regulator to avoid spinning the wheels .... which of course happens at times. However once the beast is moving, there is little trouble in building up speed. I had always assumed that to achieve this in model form you would need a fair amount of weight within the stock coupled with nice and free running wheels, a good and powerful motor and a loco weight set such that wheel spin would occur if you weren't careful.

 

Free running of the stock would appear to be very important to this goal ... once in motion you wouldn't want the stock to act as a brake.

 

However if this were achieved  then presumably one would have issues with stopping the train in the absence of coach vacuum brakes (not such a problem with trucks so long as you haven't modelled a major incline as the brakes can't be pinned) .... presumably the stopping distances would become extended and then may be way too long.

 

I wondered to what extent (if at all) you might have played around with this.

[unclebobkt]

 

        ... . 

 

  It happens with my baseboards hence the REME, Tool, Adjusting (fine), 2lb, Mk 1 always is with me for a show.

 

        In these days of voluntary & military service some souls might be pondering over the initials REME.?

  The politer meaning for this family-friendly web-site is: 'Rough Engineering Made Easy.'.

  No disparagement of that fine corps intended - we all have our various uses.

 

         

[Clive Mortimore]

        In these days of voluntary & military service some souls might be pondering over the initials REME.?

  The politer meaning for this family-friendly web-site is: 'Rough Engineering Made Easy.'.

  No disparagement of that fine corps intended - we all have our various uses.

 

         

As an ex fitter-gun (field) class 2 I have called my loco building thread Rough Engineering Made Easy, it is on my signature.

 

294 Cfn Mortimore.

[Allegheny1600]

Tony,

 

Can I ask a question about the weighting of your locos and their interaction with the stock?

 

When I observe a heavily loaded train running a steam special on the mainline (8 or 10 coaches also pulling a backup diesel) The start out from the station or from a signal has to be managed with considerable care - a gentle hand on the regulator to avoid spinning the wheels .... which of course happens at times. However once the beast is moving, there is little trouble in building up speed. I had always assumed that to achieve this in model form you would need a fair amount of weight within the stock coupled with nice and free running wheels, a good and powerful motor and a loco weight set such that wheel spin would occur if you weren't careful.

 

Free running of the stock would appear to be very important to this goal ... once in motion you wouldn't want the stock to act as a brake.

 

However if this were achieved  then presumably one would have issues with stopping the train in the absence of coach vacuum brakes (not such a problem with trucks so long as you haven't modelled a major incline as the brakes can't be pinned) .... presumably the stopping distances would become extended and then may be way too long.

 

I wondered to what extent (if at all) you might have played around with this.

Hello Tim, Tony & All,

It's been too long since I posted on here, sorry about that.

In part answer to Tims query above, I have been following several Geman fora for quite some time now and I did find mention quite a while back of one guy who was making this kind of thing happen. Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, I cannot now find this chaps writings or videos anywhere online (maybe he's removed it?).

So, I'll relate as best I can how he did it.

Unfortunately, it was a requisite of his system that it required digital control but please, keep reading and you'll see why.

He took an example of a Roco H0 scale model steam loco of the kind where the motor is housed in the tender and drives the tender wheels AND the loco wheels by means of a cardan shaft. He removed the cardan shaft and replaced it with a second motor fitted in the loco.

Obviously, he matched all the gears so both motors and loco/tender ran happily together!

Now the clever bit: He arranged digital control of both motors - independently but both were linked to the sound output (I don't know how).

So, on setting off, the locomotive motor could be told to wheelslip, while the train was accelerating and you could also hear the rapid-fire chuffs momentarily until the loco wheels caught traction or the driver reduced the throttle sufficiently.

This was arranged as a "function" on the digital handset and could be activated at the operators' will.

I believe this chap was offering a conversion service but no doubt it would be very expensive.

Co-incidently, one of my club colleagues has returned from living in France where a French friend of his had had a model similarly converted, for ages I scratched my head trying to work out how it was done. 

 

How on earth something like this could be arranged to operate with regular DC, I do not know but I thought it was clever stuff.

I'm only saying how this was done, not trying to open any kind of DC vs DCC debate - each to their own I say.

Cheers,

John.

[unclebobkt]

       ... .

 

  Do you think I meant to write 're-routing'? I think that's what I was thinking of, but crumbling faculties interfered!

 

  Anyway, rooting (re, or otherwise) sounds like gardening - something I'm even more ignorant of than DCC. 

 

       Regards,  Tony.

 

 

 

          I remember way back in the late forties/early fifties I was a pupil at Rugby School - a time when the 'round ball.' game was disdained by the majority of the school.

  One winter term the footie. team from the Notting Hill Clubs visited and played a game of soccer against a scratch & school team.

  I remember one of the school's team was doing some fancy footwork, and one of the spectators shouted out: 'Root it.', (meaning give the ball a kick!),..

 That  call of 'Root it.' caused the NH. team to dissolved into unashamed laughter.

 

 Afterwards in the changing room the NH. team was asked what was so funny?

  Their reply was that the word 'Root.' had a completely and more down-to-earth meaning with them, which, in deference to this family friendly web-site,  I shall refrain from elucidating any further.  ;-)

 

             

.

Edited July 16, 2018 by unclebobkt

[cctransuk]

         ... the word 'Root.' had a completely and more down-to-earth meaning with them ...

            

 

I suspect that it was only the 'sheltered' elite of Rugby, and other private-sector schools, who would NOT have understood the dubious connotations of the offending verb - it was certainly in the widest juvenile circulation when I was a lad.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited July 16, 2018 by cctransuk

[rowanj]

This kit must be almost 50 years old - an original Wills Finecast obtained very reasonably from Ebay. It came with the whitemetal chassis, but in the event, I used a Comet version. Still a few things to do, including finishing the lining (Modelmasters),nameplates, front coupling, coal, crew and lamps,.Other tan additional pipework, ashpan lever, streamline dome and footplate extension from he spares box, the kit is as/was supplied.

 

This was supposed to be a quick job before a holiday, but issues with the chassis, and problems fitting Gibson scale wheels meant that the quick job took 3 months. The Tetrach was a Tyneside loco, but I have a good colour photo from 1961 of her on Top Shed, and looking clean(ish). Doubtless this was a good "cop" for the spotters at Kings X..

 

Other than for haulage capacity, there is no good reason to build this kit apart from the pleasure of doing so. Isn't this a good enough reason ?

 

More details are/will be on my thread below.

[Allegheny1600]

Hello Tim, Tony & All,

It's been too long since I posted on here, sorry about that.

In part answer to Tims query above, I have been following several Geman fora for quite some time now and I did find mention quite a while back of one guy who was making this kind of thing happen. Unfortunately, despite my best efforts, I cannot now find this chaps writings or videos anywhere online (maybe he's removed it?).

So, I'll relate as best I can how he did it.

Unfortunately, it was a requisite of his system that it required digital control but please, keep reading and you'll see why.

He took an example of a Roco H0 scale model steam loco of the kind where the motor is housed in the tender and drives the tender wheels AND the loco wheels by means of a cardan shaft. He removed the cardan shaft and replaced it with a second motor fitted in the loco.

Obviously, he matched all the gears so both motors and loco/tender ran happily together!

Now the clever bit: He arranged digital control of both motors - independently but both were linked to the sound output (I don't know how).

So, on setting off, the locomotive motor could be told to wheelslip, while the train was accelerating and you could also hear the rapid-fire chuffs momentarily until the loco wheels caught traction or the driver reduced the throttle sufficiently.

This was arranged as a "function" on the digital handset and could be activated at the operators' will.

I believe this chap was offering a conversion service but no doubt it would be very expensive.

Co-incidently, one of my club colleagues has returned from living in France where a French friend of his had had a model similarly converted, for ages I scratched my head trying to work out how it was done. 

 

How on earth something like this could be arranged to operate with regular DC, I do not know but I thought it was clever stuff.

I'm only saying how this was done, not trying to open any kind of DC vs DCC debate - each to their own I say.

Cheers,

John.

Hello again all,

I hunted high and low and after searching through all of my 'liked' Youtube videos, I found it!

 

Not a great quality video but you can see the wheel-slip.

If you wish to see how it was done, see here: https://www.stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=129545#p1449016

 

All in the German language of course but if you use "Google Translate" or even better: https://www.deepl.com/translator by copying and pasting the blocks of text, you should get a decent translation.

I apologise for introducing 'German' stuff on here but I think if exploring how other countries engineers solved problems was good enough for the likes of Churchward, Gresley and others, then we should not be afraid to have a look either.

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

Can I ask a question about the weighting of your locos and their interaction with the stock?

 

When I observe a heavily loaded train running a steam special on the mainline (8 or 10 coaches also pulling a backup diesel) The start out from the station or from a signal has to be managed with considerable care - a gentle hand on the regulator to avoid spinning the wheels .... which of course happens at times. However once the beast is moving, there is little trouble in building up speed. I had always assumed that to achieve this in model form you would need a fair amount of weight within the stock coupled with nice and free running wheels, a good and powerful motor and a loco weight set such that wheel spin would occur if you weren't careful.

 

Free running of the stock would appear to be very important to this goal ... once in motion you wouldn't want the stock to act as a brake.

 

However if this were achieved  then presumably one would have issues with stopping the train in the absence of coach vacuum brakes (not such a problem with trucks so long as you haven't modelled a major incline as the brakes can't be pinned) .... presumably the stopping distances would become extended and then may be way too long.

 

I wondered to what extent (if at all) you might have played around with this.

Good evening Tim,

 

Thanks for your question.

 

Certainly, if I open the taps on a big loco starting a heavy train, I can get considerable wheel spin. Strangely, my one compensated loco (a Crownline WC, packed with lead) will spin its wheels on starting far more than a rigid equivalent (which is realistic for a WC I suppose). The trick is to just give the locos a bit of voltage, just enough to start their trains, then increase the juice as they pass through the scenic section. 

 

Braking? Most interesting. Every bit of rail on LB on each circuit is live when the controllers are turned on; apart from the 18 inches or so at the end of each fiddle yard road where locos stand. This is isolated until an appropriate switch is turned on. Once the loco has left this bit, the switch is turned off and the train circulates once (in the sequence), before coming to a halt with the loco back in the isolated section. The trick is to ease the throttle on arrival, so that the loco comes to a halt without too much of a dead-stop. However, don't ease the throttle, and 14 bogies has more than enough inertia to shove a loco right through the isolated section, and away it goes again. Great fun! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Edited to state that there are several other isolated sections on LB, other than at the ends of the fiddle yard roads - at the platforms, in the goods yard, at the ends of sidings, etc. I didn't want anyone getting the ludicrous idea that LB was DCC! 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

This kit must be almost 50 years old - an original Wills Finecast obtained very reasonably from Ebay. It came with the whitemetal chassis, but in the event, I used a Comet version. Still a few things to do, including finishing the lining (Modelmasters),nameplates, front coupling, coal, crew and lamps,.Other tan additional pipework, ashpan lever, streamline dome and footplate extension from he spares box, the kit is as/was supplied.

 

This was supposed to be a quick job before a holiday, but issues with the chassis, and problems fitting Gibson scale wheels meant that the quick job took 3 months. The Tetrach was a Tyneside loco, but I have a good colour photo from 1961 of her on Top Shed, and looking clean(ish). Doubtless this was a good "cop" for the spotters at Kings X..

 

Other than for haulage capacity, there is no good reason to build this kit apart from the pleasure of doing so. Isn't this a good enough reason ?

 

More details are/will be on my thread below.

Thanks for posting, John,

 

An observation, if I may? 

 

It looks like you've pivoted the expansion link through its top, not through its centre bearing hole. This gives the effect of having the front end of the eccentric rod far too low. Just like on Hornby's A3's valve gear. 

[rowanj]

Thanks for posting, John,

 

An observation, if I may? 

 

It looks like you've pivoted the expansion link through its top, not through its centre bearing hole. This gives the effect of having the front end of the eccentric rod far too low. Just like on Hornby's A3's valve gear. 

 

That's a great spot, Tony, and you are correct. The question remaining is whether I am brave enough to get in with the soldering iron and correct it....

[micklner]

LNER F8 now complete, "based" on a god awful Falcon Brassworks kit, all of the castings have been replaced using Arthur K parts, and a new Brass Roof .

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by micklner

[westerner]

Knowing as most of you do that I am not a loco kit builder but as Tony has kindly pointed out on several occasions I do weather and alter names etc my RTR fleet which is now diesel only I present the biggest change I have done (actually a couple of years ago), changing a maroon warship (Out of my time period) but from my good friend SAD (Salmon Pastures), strange a GC and LNER man with a maroon warship??!! into D845 Sprightly in Green with its very small yellow panel and white warning stripe on the cab roof. As I started this Kernow models announced their RTR version of Sprightly in this guise. Obviously more accurate as Sprightly was a class 43 where my conversion was  from a class 42. I have slightly altered the roof to make it look more like a 43. Still it saved me a lot of money. I think Kernows was £139-00 when it came out, mine cost £40 for the loco, and about £30 for paint transfers and plates, and as "Sir" often says I have the satisfaction of doing it myself.

 

From this:

 

 

To this:

 

 

It still need some subtle weathering

[Headstock]

LNER F8 now complete, "based" on a god awful Falcon Brassworks kit, all of the castings have been replaced using Arthur K parts, and a new Brass Roof .

 

fullsizeoutput_17c4.jpeg

 

Evening Mick,

 

that's a stunning model, well worth the cross-pollination of parts to get what you want. Have you fitted a Comet gearbox?

[Black Marlin]

At the end of the day, my freshly coaled, crewed and lamped No. 108 passes light engine over the Oykel Viaduct:

[micklner]

Evening Mick,

 

that's a stunning model, well worth the cross-pollination of parts to get what you want. Have you fitted a Comet gearbox?

 

High Level !!!! I do not use anything else, never had a problem with them. Now they have a screw fitting for the final gear they are even better . 

[Tony Wright]

At the end of the day, my freshly coaled, crewed and lamped No. 108 passes light engine over the Oykel Viaduct:

 

IMG_3879.JPG

Gavin,

 

What a wonderful picture.

 

It could almost be real. 

 

Crop the bottom and Photoshop-out the cables across the sky, and you're there. Except for the tension-lock on the tender! 

 

Every silver lining has a cloud. 

[Tony Wright]

Yesterday, I had the pleasure of visiting the Elizabethan Model Railway Society at the clubrooms in Sutton-in-Ashfield, to photograph Ambleside.

 

I first got some shots of this under-construction OO layout at the Loughborough Show last September. At that time, it was mostly running out-of-the-box, in some cases unaltered, RTR locos and stock. I found that a bit of a puzzle, especially with all the hand-built track and numerous scratch-built/modified buildings, structures and civil engineering on display. I leaned yesterday that the stock in September was because of 'democracy'. Club members have a right to run what they wish, and who arrives first at a show puts on what they like (or so it would seem). To me, though inclusive and 'chummy', this is where democracy doesn't work. 

 

 

Democratically, stuff like this appeared in September..........This, unless I'm mistaken, shows a Hornby tender-drive Patriot and a Bachmann Crab. The train the Pat's pulling is made-up of old-fashioned Hornby Stanier carriages (with oval buffers?). Neither loco has been altered at all (or so it would appear) and the carriages are as-supplied. I used this shot some little time ago to illustrate how awful tension-locks look on the fronts of locos, but I use it now to press the case for folk actually 'doing' things to their models. 

 

Fortunately, yesterday, my camera had much more interesting stuff placed in front of it. 

 

 

I knew the late Peter Wright of Millholme Models very well, and always admired his model-making. After his untimely death, members of the Elizabethan club acquired some of his locos and stock from his estate. Thus, both this Scot and Cauliflower were built by him. Aren't these much more interesting that unmodified RTR? Yes, some are getting on a bit now, and the lack of lamps does militate, but I found these models fascinating. They really complement the excellent scenic modelling on Ambleside. 

 

 

A similar view to the one showing the Pat and Crab, but now much more-interesting subject matter for a picture. What price an L&Y 0-8-0 ever being available RTR? 

 

 

Or a Precursor? 

 

Gentlemen, thank you ever so much for your hospitality and friendship yesterday. I hope the many pictures I got do your work justice. 

 

The layout is progressing well, with signals (and lamps!) next on the 'to do' list. 

 

A feature on Ambleside will be appearing in BRM later this year. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Headstock]

High Level !!!! I do not use anything else, never had a problem with them. Now they have a screw fitting for the final gear they are even better . 

 

Sorry, Mick, I couldn't resist.

[Tony Teague]

Good evening Tim,

 

Thanks for your question.

 

Certainly, if I open the taps on a big loco starting a heavy train, I can get considerable wheel spin. Strangely, my one compensated loco (a Crownline WC, packed with lead) will spin its wheels on starting far more than a rigid equivalent (which is realistic for a WC I suppose). The trick is to just give the locos a bit of voltage, just enough to start their trains, then increase the juice as they pass through the scenic section. 

 

Braking? Most interesting. Every bit of rail on LB on each circuit is live when the controllers are turned on; apart from the 18 inches or so at the end of each fiddle yard road where locos stand. This is isolated until an appropriate switch is turned on. Once the loco has left this bit, the switch is turned off and the train circulates once (in the sequence), before coming to a halt with the loco back in the isolated section. The trick is to ease the throttle on arrival, so that the loco comes to a halt without too much of a dead-stop. However, don't ease the throttle, and 14 bogies has more than enough inertia to shove a loco right through the isolated section, and away it goes again. Great fun! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Edited to state that there are several other isolated sections on LB, other than at the ends of the fiddle yard roads - at the platforms, in the goods yard, at the ends of sidings, etc. I didn't want anyone getting the ludicrous idea that LB was DCC! 

 

Like Tony I use DC, however in my case large parts of my fiddle yard have been automated such that after the front train is released, the second will move up after a short delay, triggered by Heathcote IRDOT detectors.

This does give rise to the braking issue on arrival in the fiddle yard that Tony describes, and additionally as each train moves up to the front.

Because the yard is automated, my solution to the braking issue was to have a separate "yard power" supply, set to a relatively low voltage, so that as trains cross into the fiddle yard they are slowed to a crawl.

In this way, when they eventually stop dead, the effect is minimised - but not eliminated!

Of course there are some issues related to trains of different weight and / or locos with different characteristics; RTR locos with traction tyres stop dead, whilst those with flywheels take time to stop and could run through the "stopping zone".

Trains made up of heavy kit-built metal coaches take longer to stop, whilst those comprising long rakes of lightweight plastic wagons may derail if stopped too abruptly.

The level of "yard power" is controllable, but over a long learning period I think I have got it about right; 20 roads containing 40 trains are controlled in this way and there are few casualties (unless of course Mr Wright walks through the railroom door!).

 

Tony

[60027Merlin]

Two more workhorses for the layout are now in service.

 

40 years ago Norrie Blackburn produced kits for the J37 and at that time I built two. Fast forward these 40 years and I was yet again building another two which had been lying in a friend’s drawer over that time period. 

 

Whilst it was enjoyable building/painting them it was still a bit disturbing when the mind drifted over the past 40 years!