Wright writes.....

[grahame]

I some ways I agree Grahame, but we both belong to an organisation where some members have totally the opposite view and questioned my inclusion of steam locos in my mid 1960s layout diesel based layout.

Of course, those people don't speak for me.

 

G

[Compound2632]

(That's not subjective, by the way, that's fact!)

 

Proven time and again.

[Headstock]

Hi Andrew

 

There are many other modellers who endeavor to get their train formations right who model other time periods and locations where a rake of only Mk1 coaches is correct. 

 

A good example is the Midland main line during the late sixties (end of steam) to the early seventies (before TOPS) where most trains were formed of Mk1 stock. There were a very small number LMS porthole coaches at the start of this period and a few Mk2 coaches towards the end and guess what these are available as well in RTR so it is possible to model a train using just RTR coaches. 

 

As modellers we do need to remember that other modellers have interest that do differ from ex LNER lines in the late forties and fifties. Says me who tried all last weekend to talk one of the new RTR manufacturers into doing a B16/3........"Is that a steam loco?" was his first question.

 

Evening Clive,

 

it has nothing to do with eras, formations etc, more that a rake of MK1's is more likely to originate from a factory in China, so they would be of little interest to me. What does it show, besides the size of someone's bank balance? Does anybody build MK1's (let alone fifteen) anymore,? If so, I'm sure Tony wouldn't mind if people posted images of them, I for one would be interested in seeing one build ( Kitchen Car would be rather nice if anyone has got one to show) rather than fifteen of the RTR production line.

 

With regard to eras, I don't have one. In the last year, I have built items from the 1920's and each decade up to and including the 1960's. As far as conversations with the RTR manufactures, I've been asked what I have thought of certain products but never had a conversation about the possibility of such and such being produced. I'm pretty self-reliant in that respect and I don't have a wish list.

 

It doesn't surprise me in the least that RTR manufactures know nothing about B16/3's, a tiny class, working very specific duties, over a limited time scale and geographical area, though It has been muted for some time that one is a possibility. To be honest, what the RTR manufacturers get up to doesn't really figure into my modeling, but it is so pervasive these days that exhibitions, for example, have lost a lot of their excitement.

[jamie92208]

My layout is Midland 1923-ish and all the stock is from there or roundabout and I do try to run prototypical trains. However I've also got a part completed 9F which I will complete one day. If I do ever complete the kit that's a pile of **** then I only will have to make a kit for an anhydrite hopper and then make 16 pf them [plus a brake van and then run a Long Meg plaster train which is what I grew up watching. I know that it won't fit with the layout but it's what I want to do. I think it will look good.

 

 

Jamie

[ScRSG]

Evening Clive,

 

it has nothing to do with eras, formations etc, more that a rake of MK1's is more likely to originate from a factory in China, so they would be of little interest to me. What does it show, besides the size of someone's bank balance? Does anybody build MK1's (let alone fifteen) anymore,? If so, I'm sure Tony wouldn't mind if people posted images of them, I for one would be interested in seeing one build ( Kitchen Car would be rather nice if anyone has got one to show) rather than fifteen of the RTR production line.

 

With regard to eras, I don't have one. In the last year, I have built items from the 1920's and each decade up to and including the 1960's. As far as conversations with the RTR manufactures, I've been asked what I have thought of certain products but never had a conversation about the possibility of such and such being produced. I'm pretty self-reliant in that respect and I don't have a wish list.

 

It doesn't surprise me in the least that RTR manufactures know nothing about B16/3's, a tiny class, working very specific duties, over a limited time scale and geographical area, though It has been muted for some time that one is a possibility. To be honest, what the RTR manufacturers get up to doesn't really figure into my modeling, but it is so pervasive these days that exhibitions, for example, have lost a lot of their excitement.

 

As requested!

 

 

 

Comet sides on a donor coach with the necessary roof detail.

 

Chas

[Clive Mortimore]

Evening Clive,

 

it has nothing to do with eras, formations etc, more that a rake of MK1's is more likely to originate from a factory in China, so they would be of little interest to me. What does it show, besides the size of someone's bank balance? Does anybody build MK1's (let alone fifteen) anymore,? If so, I'm sure Tony wouldn't mind if people posted images of them, I for one would be interested in seeing one build ( Kitchen Car would be rather nice if anyone has got one to show) rather than fifteen of the RTR production line.

 

With regard to eras, I don't have one. In the last year, I have built items from the 1920's and each decade up to and including the 1960's. As far as conversations with the RTR manufactures, I've been asked what I have thought of certain products but never had a conversation about the possibility of such and such being produced. I'm pretty self-reliant in that respect and I don't have a wish list.

 

It doesn't surprise me in the least that RTR manufactures know nothing about B16/3's, a tiny class, working very specific duties, over a limited time scale and geographical area, though It has been muted for some time that one is a possibility. To be honest, what the RTR manufacturers get up to doesn't really figure into my modeling, but it is so pervasive these days that exhibitions, for example, have lost a lot of their excitement.

Hi Andrew

 

I do but they never ran in trains of 15, but 10, 8, 6, 4 and 3 cars. Later the platforms at Shenfield were made a tad longer and 12 car AM9 trains could be run but that is past my modelling period.  Sorry they are old photos but the units are packed away at the moment. These trains are very unlikely to ever be done as RTR and if they are I bet they will be the refurbished coaches as for the few years they remained in service post refurbishment many had several liveries as they were redistributed around the country from their native Essex, Hertfordshire and East End.

 

Even Tony has photographed some of them on LB back in November.

 

There is a lot of modelling possibilities with Mk1 stock. I cannot wait until I get bored enough to have a go at a 4 REP or a full 12 car CIG/BIG/CIG unit.

 

Why not a B16/3 or any of the B16 they were a good mixed traffic class, reasonably long lives and did tend to wander away from their native North East. I was at a diesel and electric modellers gathering and the representative of the company I was chatting to have produced some very fine N gauge D&E period models hence his lack of knowledge of B16/3.

[MJI]

Evening Clive,

 

it has nothing to do with eras, formations etc, more that a rake of MK1's is more likely to originate from a factory in China, so they would be of little interest to me. What does it show, besides the size of someone's bank balance? Does anybody build MK1's (let alone fifteen) anymore,? If so, I'm sure Tony wouldn't mind if people posted images of them, I for one would be interested in seeing one build ( Kitchen Car would be rather nice if anyone has got one to show) rather than fifteen of the RTR production line.

 

With regard to eras, I don't have one. In the last year, I have built items from the 1920's and each decade up to and including the 1960's. As far as conversations with the RTR manufactures, I've been asked what I have thought of certain products but never had a conversation about the possibility of such and such being produced. I'm pretty self-reliant in that respect and I don't have a wish list.

 

It doesn't surprise me in the least that RTR manufactures know nothing about B16/3's, a tiny class, working very specific duties, over a limited time scale and geographical area, though It has been muted for some time that one is a possibility. To be honest, what the RTR manufacturers get up to doesn't really figure into my modeling, but it is so pervasive these days that exhibitions, for example, have lost a lot of their excitement.

 

It still takes time to make them acceptable

 

Played musical bogies

Renumbered a set

Made sure brake gear matched the prototype

[MJI]

Hi Andrew

 

I do but they never ran in trains of 15, but 10, 8, 6, 4 and 3 cars. Later the platforms at Shenfield were made a tad longer and 12 car AM9 trains could be run but that is past my modelling period.  Sorry they are old photos but the units are packed away at the moment. These trains are very unlikely to ever be done as RTR and if they are I bet they will be the refurbished coaches as for the few years they remained in service post refurbishment many had several liveries as they were redistributed around the country from their native Essex, Hertfordshire and East End.

 

Even Tony has photographed some of them on LB back in November.

 

There is a lot of modelling possibilities with Mk1 stock. I cannot wait until I get bored enough to have a go at a 4 REP or a full 12 car CIG/BIG/CIG unit.

 

Why not a B16/3 or any of the B16 they were a good mixed traffic class, reasonably long lives and did tend to wander away from their native North East. I was at a diesel and electric modellers gathering and the representative of the company I was chatting to have produced some very fine N gauge D&E period models hence his lack of knowledge of B16/3.

 

How many motors would you fit to a REP?

[Clive Mortimore]

How many motors would you fit to a REP?

Only one Replica powered chassis as they can shift a 12 car train (4 REP+ 4TC +4TC)  at a scale 100mph if need to. Two would be over kill but nice.

 

My AM9 has 3 power bogies, one in each unit but that allows me to run each unit on its own. It does a scale 100mph.  

 

4 REP and a full AM9 were both as powerful as a Deltic and as fast as a Deltic

[robertcwp]

Which are those please Martin?

 

Certainly not on the ECML in the late-'50s. 

 

The only train which can be formed accurately using just RTR carriages is the morning 'Talisman' - nine cars, all Bachmann Mk.1s. 

 

All the others, including the 'Flying Scotsman', will need kit-building somewhere in their consists, particularly for catering cars and cars with ladies' retiring rooms. 

Even the Morning Talisman often had a Thompson RF instead of a Mark I RU because the latter rode so poorly.

 

There are other late 1950s trains that can be done wholly RTR, such as the Torbay Express, Cambrian Coast Express, Cornishman and possibly other WR named trains that ran with a Mark I RU (introduced 1957). The Eastern and London Midland are more difficult. The former becomes easier from the early 1960s when the final batch of RUs was introduced, but even then lots of trains included an RUO at that time. To make one, you could alter a Hornby or Bachmann open second fairly easily. For the LMR the main issue in the 1960s maroon era is that the region did not have any RUs, having its own distinctive Mark I RF (Diag 17) instead. The really screaming RTR omission as noted above is the lack of an RB other than the now 37 year old Mainline one.

 

Expresses don't have to be long. The Midland is a good place for shorter ones. Handily for the RTR modeller, the Eastern provided some of the sets, so some trains did include an RU rather than an RF.

 

I have recently been documenting the formations I use on my layout, which normally has a maximum of 8-coach trains, with room for one of 9. Here are a few examples, Mark I unless stated:

 

1958-9 Winter:

Torbay Express: BSK, SK(certain dates only), SK, SO, RU, FK, CK, BSK

Devonian: BSK(Y), SK, SK, SO(64), RF(Diag 16), CK, CK, SK, BSK (Y = LMS design, in practice a porthole, the Diag 16 RF has a story behind it and was an RMWeb collaborative project).

 

1962-3:

10.20 am Edinburgh-St Pancras The Waverley (formation north of Nottingham): BSK, CK, CK, FK, RF(Diag 17), SO(64), SO(64), BSK

3.15 pm Cardiff-Leeds: BSK, SK, CK, RB, CK, SK, BSK

10.15 pm Edinburgh-St Pancras (TWThO formation from Nottingham) (7): BG, SK, SK, CK, SLF, SLSTP, BG

 

1965-6 Winter:

1000 Paddington-Swansea (FX formation): BG, SK, SK, SK, RB, FO, FK, FK, BSK

1515 Paddington-Hereford: BSK, SK, CK, SO, RU, FK, SK, BSK

 

1966:

1150 St Pancras-Bradford: SO(64), RU, CK, BSK, SO(64), FK, SO(64), BSK

0905 St Pancras-Edinburgh (13 June to 1 October 1966); other dates is 0905 St Pancras-Leeds: BG, BSK, CK, SO(64), RF, SO(48), CK, BSK

 

[Tony Wright]

As requested!

 

IMGP0883.JPG

 

IMGP0884.JPG

 

Comet sides on a donor coach with the necessary roof detail.

 

Chas

A lovely model, Chas,

 

Thanks for posting. 

 

I had one which Tony Geary built, but I built two ex-LNER Kitchen Cars and that was more than I needed. I sold the Mk.1 Kitchen Car, though it appeared in the MRJ some years ago.

 

One point of interest, if I may? As far as I know, the LNER catering cars did not have door handles which could be opened from the outside (for obvious reasons, a key for a slot was needed - to prevent a passenger entering the kitchen from the platform). I'm surprised the Mk.1s did, though I don't know. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[96701]

Evening Clive,

 

it has nothing to do with eras, formations etc, more that a rake of MK1's is more likely to originate from a factory in China, so they would be of little interest to me. What does it show, besides the size of someone's bank balance? Does anybody build MK1's (let alone fifteen) anymore,? 

Never heard of Comet Models or Southern Pride? They both do Mk 1s, so not all Mk 1s are ready to run.

[Tony Wright]

(RTR - my brackets) 'is so pervasive these days that exhibitions, for example, have lost a lot of their excitement'.

 

Here, here!

[Tony Wright]

Never heard of Comet Models or Southern Pride? They both do Mk 1s, so not all Mk 1s are ready to run.

Good point, Phil,

 

However, most of my Mk.1s on LB are modified Bachmann RTR. That said, I do have a few Comet and Southern Pride ones (covering what Bachmann/Hornby don't produce).

 

In fairness, by my exploiting the excellent RTR Mk.1s, I release the time to build what isn't available straight-from-the-box. 

[31A]

 

 Does anybody build MK1's (let alone fifteen) anymore,? 

 

Does this count?

 

[robertcwp]

This is one of the many 'missing' Mark I catering car types, and one I cannot see ever being done RTR:

 

RF small by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

Diagram 17 RF. This was originally a Southern Pride Mark I that I built many years ago, I forget which one. Brian Kirby rebuilt it with etched sides and an altered roof. Even that was 13 years ago as the photo was taken in 2005.

[Clive Mortimore]

Does this count?

 

P1010954.jpg

Yes

 

But there is always more ways to skin a cat to achieve the same thing.

 

And a SO (L)

[Headstock]

Never heard of Comet Models or Southern Pride? They both do Mk 1s, so not all Mk 1s are ready to run.

 

Never heard of them.

[Headstock]

Wonderful stuff, I almost want to build a MK1.

[96701]

Wonderful stuff, I almost want to build a MK1.

I would if I were you.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't quite finished the interior of the one that I have. I even bought it before I met Geoff Brewin. I thought that he might encourage me to finish it. Turns out that he had even less enthusiasm than me for building coaches. I do have 8 Mk 1s built by Alan for Geoff and I also had visions of having a Restaurant car in blue / grey, and it looks like a complete bag of spanners next to the Comet Mk 1s. The trouble is that the ones that I inherited from Geoff are maroon on BR1 bogies, so I'm going to have to repaint them to blue / grey and fit either commonwealth or BR4 sideframes. This fills me with trepidation on two fronts:

1. I would hate to spoil Geoff's coaches by the cack handed removal of the BR1 bogie cosmetic sideframes and
2. I would hate to spoil Geoff's coaches by the cack handed respraying into blue / grey and adding the white lining.

Maybe I'm getting risk averse, but it all adds to the loss of modelling mojo.

[Headstock]

Why not a B16/3 or any of the B16 they were a good mixed traffic class, reasonably long lives and did tend to wander away from their native North East. I was at a diesel and electric modellers gathering and the representative of the company I was chatting to have produced some very fine N gauge D&E period models hence his lack of knowledge of B16/3.

 

It's a good question, I don't really have an answer, as what the RTR manufactures chose to produce doesn't really bother me. I'm building a B16/1 at present, it is very much a part of a joined-up plan including a thirty odd wagon fitted freight, researched around the kind of traffic that worked between Southampton docks (and places in between) and York Dringhouses. It's a difficult thing to explain, but if I was able to buy my B16 and its train off the shelf it would give me no pleasure at all, unlike the wonderful examples of MK1 modeling that have been posted this evening, they are intrinsically exciting to look at.

[Headstock]

I would if I were you.

 

Unfortunately, I haven't quite finished the interior of the one that I have. I even bought it before I met Geoff Brewin. I thought that he might encourage me to finish it. Turns out that he had even less enthusiasm than me for building coaches. I do have 8 Mk 1s built by Alan for Geoff and I also had visions of having a Restaurant car in blue / grey, and it looks like a complete bag of spanners next to the Comet Mk 1s. The trouble is that the ones that I inherited from Geoff are maroon on BR1 bogies, so I'm going to have to repaint them to blue / grey and fit either commonwealth or BR4 sideframes. This fills me with trepidation on two fronts:

1. I would hate to spoil Geoff's coaches by the cack handed removal of the BR1 bogie cosmetic sideframes and
2. I would hate to spoil Geoff's coaches by the cack handed respraying into blue / grey and adding the white lining.

Maybe I'm getting risk averse, but it all adds to the loss of modelling mojo.

 

Perhaps the solution would be to build new top halves for the existing underframes, paint them blue and grey, reuse the interiors, replace the bogies and put the originals into storage. Then at a later date build new underframes.

[96701]

Perhaps the solution would be to build new top halves for the existing underframes, paint them blue and grey, reuse the interiors, replace the bogies and put the originals into storage. Then at a later date build new underframes.

ooooooo. food for thought. Thanks for the suggestion. Never thought of that.

[mark axlecounter]

I know I have put pics of this before and its not a MK1 coach but I used a Bachmann 50ft parcel coach for my inspection saloon. I know you can buy them but I had fun building this and getting help from Tony on lining and putting the clear plastic in.

the first pic is my first one what Tony saw at Bristol I have repainted that one now. But the other 2 pictures are another one I built and used replica transfers.

 

But my next project will be a sleeper set with comet sides on Bachmann Mk1s  

 

 

 

 

 

Mark

[Headstock]

I know I have put pics of this before and its not a MK1 coach but I used a Bachmann 50ft parcel coach for my inspection saloon. I know you can buy them but I had fun building this and getting help from Tony on lining and putting the clear plastic in.

the first pic is my first one what Tony saw at Bristol I have repainted that one now. But the other 2 pictures are another one I built and used replica transfers.

 

But my next project will be a sleeper set with comet sides on Bachmann Mk1s  

 

IMG_4760.jpg

 

IMG_4994.jpg

 

IMG_4995.jpg

 

 

Mark

 

Evening Mark,

 

I didn't realise that was a conversion from a 50' BG, it's very clever.