Wright writes.....

[Michael Edge]

Photo of an LBSC D1 painted like this recently.

Just the coupling rods and pickups added after painting the frames.

[gr.king]

Further on blackening:  In my ideal world there would be a single cheap agent and a single, simple, non-hazardous, cold process that puts a genuinely black, hard, durable, low-sheen, fully electroconductive coating, capable of surviving abrasive cleaning, on brass, nickel silver, copper, phosphor bronze, steel, Mazak, white metal and similar alloys. As far as I know, no such thing exists. Paint seems easier, even if wheel treads then have to remain bright.

Now does anybody have a cold chemical dip that will apply lined green livery to wheels?

[t-b-g]

Just like subjects like soldering, if you ask 10 modellers how they paint things, you will get 11 different answers.

 

I do use a lot of chemical blackening, in my case Birchwood Casey "Super Blue".

 

Once I have assembled the frames, I blacken most of them. I just leave a small area where something might need to be soldered on later clear. The advantage is that any amount of soldering can be done afterwards and it does not blister or cause the finish to lift.

 

I also blacken the edges of the wheel treads (but not the treads themselves). Whether it be steel or nickel silver, a chemically blackened finish is not going to ever get chipped.

 

I will then weather or paint over the blackening, especially on the visible bits, to get a better looking colour or finish, safe in the knowledge that if any paint comes off, it won't show as shiny metal underneath.

 

I also blacken things like coupling rods/valve gear and such. Brass or Nickel Silver blackened and polished looks much more like steel and they can then be weathered with a bit of oil and muck coloured paint.

 

Blackening is also very useful as a "solder resist" for assembling parts that need to move, such as soldering a nut to a footplate with a blackened bolt holding it in place, or for assembling valve gear.

 

This is not to say that what others do is wrong in any way. Just that this is how I approach the task.

[john new]

Is the Birchwood mentioned a hot or cold process?

[gr.king]

And is the stuff non-toxic or of low toxicity?

[jwealleans]

Certainly poisonous if swallowed, but there aren't any other safety advisories on this page.

 

It's applied cold. i use a paintbrush.

[t-b-g]

12 minutes ago, john new said:

Is the Birchwood mentioned a hot or cold process?

 

It is done just by brushing it on cold and then "killing" the reaction, which I do by polishing it with kitchen roll. I use an old and quite stiff brush which seems to almost work the fluid into the metal better than just a soft brush. Some people use cotton buds which do work but I find that they tend to leave fibres behind.

 

The metal needs to be clean before you start otherwise it all goes a bit patchy.

 

 

[t-b-g]

19 minutes ago, gr.king said:

And is the stuff non-toxic or of low toxicity?

 

Nope and nope! I wear rubber gloves when I work with it, or if I don't have any available, I take great care to not let it contact my hands and I wash well after using it. The parts I am blackening are held with clamps or suchlike and are not touched by my hands while I am working. For a coupling rod, I clamp one end and blacken the other, then I clean that end up with kitchen roll held in tweezers and turn it round to do the other end without touching it. Once the chemical is "killed" by polishing, the parts can be handled in just the way that a gun can (which is what they stuff is made for). 

 

I just treat it for what it is, a nasty substance that requires respect and care.

[polybear]

Many thanks for this info Tony; just one question - do you need to use primer over the chemical blackening before painting?

Many thanks.

[t-b-g]

25 minutes ago, polybear said:

Many thanks for this info Tony; just one question - do you need to use primer over the chemical blackening before painting?

Many thanks.

 

For something like frames, I paint directly onto the blackening. The paint sticks to the surface quite well. I suppose the blackening is acting a bit like an etch primer anyway.

 

If I get a really good covering with the blackening, which usually means that I took my time and I did not either rush or be lazy with the cleaning and application, the frames just stay blackened and I don't add any paint, just a bit of weathering.

 

What I don't want to do is to introduce either a grey or red oxide primer layer. If any paint or weathering chips off or gets damaged, you only have the blackening underneath, so the lack of a primer doesn't show.

[drmditch]

I still have a small stock of Carrs products.

The advice that comes with them suggests:

Acid Dip               for cleaning

Metal Black         for blackening

Electrofix             for stabilising.

 

I don't know (and haven't looked) to see whether all these are still available.

[Michael Edge]

I still use Acidip for cleaning up when I'm soldering up models built from shim steel sheet, I don't know if it's still available but it's very good for getting the crusty deposits out of corners when soldering steel with phosphoric acid flux.

[Jol Wilkinson]

50 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

I still use Acidip for cleaning up when I'm soldering up models built from shim steel sheet, I don't know if it's still available but it's very good for getting the crusty deposits out of corners when soldering steel with phosphoric acid flux.

Years ago, Hubert Carr told me that Acidip was a dilute solution of phosphoric acid, with the addition of a wetting agent and some dye, hence the name. Whether the latest version, from PPP, is the same I cannot say.

 

I have found that applying LRM Phosflux, Carrs Acidip or Carrs Surface Conditioner to a mechanically clean brass surface (i.e.not tarnished or corroded) causes a visible change in the surface colour, presumably showing that they are all similar products (other acid fluxes may also do the same).

[grob1234]

3 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

 

I also blacken things like coupling rods/valve gear and such. Brass or Nickel Silver blackened and polished looks much more like steel and they can then be weathered with a bit of oil and muck coloured paint.

 

Blackening is also very useful as a "solder resist" for assembling parts that need to move, such as soldering a nut to a footplate with a blackened bolt holding it in place, or for assembling valve gear.

 

 

That's exactly what I do. 

Apply the blackening agent to the rods prior to assembly, and polish with a glass fibre brush. 

As you mention, it helps resist solder too, an added bonus with the valve gear!

[rowanj]

Some time ago. I bought this Falcon Brass N15 kit when Tony was disposing of some of the estate of a deceased modeller. It doesn;t really fit my location, but I'd heard the kits could be a challenge  and the CRUK cause is a really good one,  so thought I'd have a bit of fun and give it a go,I've been taking a few photos of "visiting locos" for my own thread, and given the provenance, thought I'd share one here.

 

The kit was tricky- I remember real issues with the chassis, and I needed to add a fair bit of extra detail to that in the kit. 60027Merlin was particularly helpful about cab detail, It was certainly a kit where building the basic chass, including the trailing truck at the same time as the main superstructure to check clearances, avoid binding and ensure the chosen motor/gearbox combination fits.

 

i was quite pleased how it turned out, though I need to sort out that dodgy boiler ban line.

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, rowanj said:

Some time ago. I bought this Falcon Brass N15 kit when Tony was disposing of some of the estate of a deceased modeller. It doesn;t really fit my location, but I'd heard the kits could be a challenge  and the CRUK cause is a really good one,  so thought I'd have a bit of fun and give it a go,I've been taking a few photos of "visiting locos" for my own thread, and given the provenance, thought I'd share one here.

 

The kit was tricky- I remember real issues with the chassis, and I needed to add a fair bit of extra detail to that in the kit. 60027Merlin was particularly helpful about cab detail, It was certainly a kit where building the basic chass, including the trailing truck at the same time as the main superstructure to check clearances, avoid binding and ensure the chosen motor/gearbox combination fits.

 

i was quite pleased how it turned out, though I need to sort out that dodgy boiler ban line.

 

Thanks John,

 

It's gratifying to see that some of the kits I sell on behalf of bereaved families are actually built!

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, micklner said:

Much easier with Halfords Matt Black aerosol !! . I use mainly Gibsons on my builds (now the price has gone up to £10 a pair Markits are now being reconsidered , however they never appear to be hardly ever available) and the paint is always coming off the rims even when using acid primer first , 2 second job to touch them up in due course !!

Other colours are brush applied using old brushes . I prime first with Halfords aerosol.

Good evening Mick,

 

A point of clarification, please? 

 

'however they never appear to be hardly ever available' Are you saying they're hardly ever available, or not?

 

If you think they're hard to obtain, I've never found that to be the case with Markits wheels. I just phone up Mark Arscott, and (after at least half an hour's most-amusing conversation) he takes my order, my credit card details and the wheels arrive within a week.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[micklner]

36 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Mick,

 

A point of clarification, please? 

 

'however they never appear to be hardly ever available' Are you saying they're hardly ever available, or not?

 

If you think they're hard to obtain, I've never found that to be the case with Markits wheels. I just phone up Mark Arscott, and (after at least half an hour's most-amusing conversation) he takes my order, my credit card details and the wheels arrive within a week.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

After reading numerous comments elsewhere re contacting Markits direct, I have'nt attempted to order from him.

The only other stockist appears to be Wizard, who appears to have little stock available everytime I have checked in the past.

Does anyone else sell his products?,  Roxey only list his detail parts and states he no longer sells wheels.

Nothing else on a Goggle search.

[micklner]

Just checked over half of the Markit items on Wizard are out of stock at the present time, he has'nt even got Crankpins in stock.

 

I also find it very strange that  he (Markits) still lists a 2013 Markits Product Catalogue on the Internet , without any updates or current prices.

Edited November 29, 2022 by micklner

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Mick,

 

A point of clarification, please? 

 

'however they never appear to be hardly ever available' Are you saying they're hardly ever available, or not?

 

If you think they're hard to obtain, I've never found that to be the case with Markits wheels. I just phone up Mark Arscott, and (after at least half an hour's most-amusing conversation) he takes my order, my credit card details and the wheels arrive within a week.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I hesitate to say this, but you may well be receiving special service.

 

I'm afraid that I am 'persona non grata' with Mark - he took exception to a minor complaint that I made.

 

Reports of non-availability of Markits' productions have been rife for ages, and the main source (Wizard) seems to have little better luck.

 

Peter's Spares have supplied some detail fittings in the past, but their range is very restricted.

 

You make a very relevant comment re lengthy conversation prior to ordering; this was always my experience when Mark would speak to me.

 

Given that Mark is a sole trader, and pressure of work is often cited as the reason for non-availability of product, I'm sure that there is a connection between his love of banter and his work output.

 

As a sole trader myself, I know that customer service is paramount, and that product production and despatch must take precedence over 'chewing the cud'.

 

It is such a shame that the paramount range of railway MODELLING components is in such short supply when, with a little business acumen and organisation, the hobby of railway model BUILDING could be much more attractive to newcomers.

 

John Isherwood.

[Hollar]

12 hours ago, rodent279 said:

What's the consensus on paint colour for frames? Matt black, or frame dirt brown?

I use a blend of six or seven colours mixed on the brush from a porcelain pallette - if it's good enough for Martyn Welch . . .

 

Tony

Edited November 29, 2022 by Hollar
left out a word

[Staffordshire]

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Mick,

 

A point of clarification, please? 

 

'however they never appear to be hardly ever available' Are you saying they're hardly ever available, or not?

 

If you think they're hard to obtain, I've never found that to be the case with Markits wheels. I just phone up Mark Arscott, and (after at least half an hour's most-amusing conversation) he takes my order, my credit card details and the wheels arrive within a week.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

    I totally agree, after a little banter (which I enjoy), I have always had excellent service from Mark,

I think we should all cut him some slack and be thankful his wheels are available.

 

    With a bit of banter, he has helped me out on a few occasions.

 

    Cheers, ian 

[St Enodoc]

16 hours ago, t-b-g said:

"killing" the reaction, which I do by polishing it with kitchen roll

I rinse the piece under the cold tap before drying and polishing (yes, also with kitchen roll).

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, micklner said:

Just checked over half of the Markit items on Wizard are out of stock at the present time, T

 

I also find it very strange that  he (Markits) still lists a 2013 Markits Product Catalogue on the Internet , without any updates or current prices.

Good morning Mick,

 

'he has'nt even got Crankpins in stock.'

 

That's probably because I've bought over 100 this year alone, and 200 crankpin washers to go with them! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I hesitate to say this, but you may well be receiving special service.

 

I'm afraid that I am 'persona non grata' with Mark - he took exception to a minor complaint that I made.

 

Reports of non-availability of Markits' productions have been rife for ages, and the main source (Wizard) seems to have little better luck.

 

Peter's Spares have supplied some detail fittings in the past, but their range is very restricted.

 

You make a very relevant comment re lengthy conversation prior to ordering; this was always my experience when Mark would speak to me.

 

Given that Mark is a sole trader, and pressure of work is often cited as the reason for non-availability of product, I'm sure that there is a connection between his love of banter and his work output.

 

As a sole trader myself, I know that customer service is paramount, and that product production and despatch must take precedence over 'chewing the cud'.

 

It is such a shame that the paramount range of railway MODELLING components is in such short supply when, with a little business acumen and organisation, the hobby of railway model BUILDING could be much more attractive to newcomers.

 

John Isherwood.

Good morning John,

 

I don't know why I should be in a position of 'receiving special service' from Markits (I've had differences of opinion with Mark Arscott in the past, by the way). 

 

I do know he's had 'production problems' of late - as far as I'm aware, his wheel caster has retired, and he's switched to producing tyres in stainless steel from nickel silver because of supply difficulties. He's a 'sole' manufacturer as well as a sole trader, after all.

 

It's well known that I use Markits (ex-Romford) driving wheels exclusively. I imagine it's my own incompetence, but I cannot get on with friction-fit drivers. I've never had a set that's completely true-round, tyres have fallen off and some have slipped on their axles under (very) heavy load. None of these problems has been manifest in Markits drivers. If, by advocating the use of Markits wheels in all my loco-build articles/reviews/postings, I'm perceived as being worthy of 'special service', then it's news to me. Granted, I'm privileged to call Mark Arscott a friend.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.