Wright writes.....

[Buhar]

10 minutes ago, 60526 said:

In updating or modifying older kits, has anyone experience of using the likes of Hornby or Bachmann wheels instead of Romfords or Gibson etc. In buying the buffers for my 04/8 from Peters Spares I was drawn to the other spares they provide for the O1. I'm impressed by the smooth running of my Hornby O1, so I've ordered a set of O1 driving wheels to try out, at £10 it must be worth a punt? I don't know how much a set of Romfords would cost?

RTR axles seem to vary in diameter and not many (if any) are either 2mm or 1/8th which are the sizes of bearings for use in kits and not all RTR wheel sets have bearings in the original model.  With a lathe or drill press you might be in with a chance of opening a set to the right size.  There is a huge saving to be made, I'd be interested in hearing how you get on.

 

Alan 

[60526]

3 minutes ago, Buhar said:

RTR axles seem to vary in diameter and not many (if any) are either 2mm or 1/8th which are the sizes of bearings for use in kits and not all RTR wheel sets have bearings in the original model.  With a lathe or drill press you might be in with a chance of opening a set to the right size.  There is a huge saving to be made, I'd be interested in hearing how you get on.

 

Alan 

I decided to buy the Hornby wheelset because they come with brass bearings. I'll provide some diameter dimensions when the set arrives.

[Buhar]

1 minute ago, 60526 said:

I decided to buy the Hornby wheelset because they come with brass bearings. I'll provide some diameter dimensions when the set arrives.

The Gibson catalogue gives axle diameters for a good number of RTR locos to assist with re-gauging to EM using Gibson wheels.  If you're building a Wright-rigid chassis you should be able to drill out for the Hornby bearings but sprung or compensated............. 

 

Alan

[jamieb]

I've purchased a few sets of Hornby wheels like this.A set of L1 wheels(£5) came with 3mm axles ,easily opened out with a 1/8" reamer and spare Gibson axles do the job.I've also got some Patriot wheels (£6 per set) to rewheel an old Hornby model and some Bachmann Jinty wheels for a Comet chassis

Dont tell everyone about them though!

 

[uax6]

Can I pick the collective knowledge bank here please?

 

I've picked up a pair of old kit built LMS Black Fives, possibly K's kits ones. They are fitted with separate top feed and domes, but I want to represent a pair from the first Vulcan batch, so they need the early top feed, that looks like a mixture of a top feed and dome in one. Does anyone know where I get get a suitable casting from please?

 

Thanks

 

Andy G

[lezz01]

Try Gibson or Brassmasters.

Regards Lez.

[uax6]

Neither seem to do the original style, only the later top feed sadly.

 

Andy G

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

Can I pick the collective knowledge bank here please?

 

I've picked up a pair of old kit built LMS Black Fives, possibly K's kits ones. They are fitted with separate top feed and domes, but I want to represent a pair from the first Vulcan batch, so they need the early top feed, that looks like a mixture of a top feed and dome in one. Does anyone know where I get get a suitable casting from please?

 

Thanks

 

Andy G

Try 247 Devolopments DO5 Stanier dome and top feed.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Clive Mortimore

[polybear]

9 hours ago, 60526 said:

I looked back at the GK article and noticed that he used the Bmann O4 as a donor chassis. I hadn't realised that Bmann had improved the spares on their website. A set of O4 wheels and rods is £22. https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/category/2-branchline-steam-parts/robinson-04-2-8-0/chassis?page=1

 

Though using Bachmann wheels as a part of a kit built loco will presumably be complicated by the fact that Bachmann don't use 1/8th axles (does anyone make 3mm brass bearings?)

[Michael Edge]

7 hours ago, uax6 said:

Neither seem to do the original style, only the later top feed sadly.

 

Andy G

Try Wizard or 247, they might have the original domeless cover.

[CF MRC]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

On Sunday, I'll be helping a chap build a DJH A1 (he's a relative newcomer to kit-building).

 

In preparation..............

 

 

I started this one of my own this morning. 

 

It'll be 60158 ABERDONIAN. 

 

 

After careful weighing up of all the signs and symptoms, I think Tony can be diagnosed as suffering from A*CMD. 

 

For the uninitiated that means A (* - insert appropriate number) Compulsive Making Disorder.  There are other sub-variants… 
 

Tim
 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by CF MRC

[chris p bacon]

12 hours ago, geoff west said:

Can anyone tell me which set i would  need for Biggleswade 1956 ? I believe there was a Hitchin to Sandy train which consisted of quad arts.

I've no idea about 1956 but there is an HMRS article for July 1958 which gives details for the 16.06 Hitchin to Sandy.

 

It was a short working utilising a 4 car set which had been worked back to Hitchin as empty stock, for the week it shows sets L78,L74 & L71 being used.

 

[ScRSG]

2 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Though using Bachmann wheels as a part of a kit built loco will presumably be complicated by the fact that Bachmann don't use 1/8th axles (does anyone make 3mm brass bearings?)

I am sure Markits do 3mm bearings which are a fit for most kit chassis. I am also reasonably sure that all Hornby locos use 3mm axles and High Level will supply gear boxes with a 3mm final drive gear - so nothing to stop us!

Chas

[BMacdermott]

11 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

I've no idea about 1956 but there is an HMRS article for July 1958 which gives details for the 16.06 Hitchin to Sandy.

 

It was a short working utilising a 4 car set which had been worked back to Hitchin as empty stock, for the week it shows sets L78,L74 & L71 being used.

 

 

Hello Chris

 

The 00 Poll Team did much research on the GN Quad Arts. We found no evidence of any being run as a 'half set' (ie four coaches). One eminent GN line historian believes that a 4-set did once run, but only as an emergency and not in a 'service train'.

 

The sets were designed to run as 'pairs'. 

 

Brian

 

[60526]

13 hours ago, 60526 said:

I decided to buy the Hornby wheelset because they come with brass bearings. I'll provide some diameter dimensions when the set arrives.

The parts arrived from Peters spares this a.m. The driving wheels are oversized at 18.6mm diameter, O1/8K=4'-8" 17mm ish. 14 spoke, tick. The axles are 2.9mm dia, the brass bearing that come with them are 5.07mm dia/3mm bore. These would normally fit in slots in the Hornby chassis, aside from one on the drive axle they don't have any flange. Longevity of the tyre plating, who knows. The coupling rod set I bought X6548 look ok to use, includes the rods and threaded pins. The loco chassis bottom X6551 which includes the brake shoes looks ok, but will probably need some cutting to fit a brass chassis. The buffers X6557 are metal and look ok to use, includes tender buffers and are complete with springs.

[Curlew]

I think the LNER considered using a half set of quad or quint arts to reopen the Blackwall branch in the early 1930s but it was abandoned due to clearance issues?

[Buhar]

19 minutes ago, 60526 said:

The driving wheels are oversized at 18.6mm diameter, O1/8K=4'-8" 17mm ish

Are you sure?  17mm is 4'3", 4'8" is a little more than 18.6mm.  56 inches at 1:76 is 0.736" x 25.4 gives 18.7mm.

 

Alan

[Bucoops]

35 minutes ago, Curlew said:

I think the LNER considered using a half set of quad or quint arts to reopen the Blackwall branch in the early 1930s but it was abandoned due to clearance issues?

 

The GE section articulated sets were regularly run when split. Only the GN section ones were designed to run in "fixed" pairs. I'm not sure but it may be that the Hertford Quads were designed to run on their own, or with strenghteners rather than two half-sets. The Quints definitely ran as pairs during peak periods.

[BMacdermott]

Hello Bucoops

 

The GE Quads were definitely designed to run as 'a single 4-set' (with strengtheners as needed).

 

Brian

[MJI]

OK Got a strange request here.

 

The Airfix Mainline Hornby 2P.

 

I got a cheap non runner off Ebay, faulty loco chassis.

 

Currently reassembling, but upon dismantiling found a hand rail knob missing, so thought grab one off the tender.

 

Well the tender ones are smaller.

 

Does anyone have any of the boiler handrail knobs off one available? All of mine in packets do not match.

 

Also is it worth selling the tender chassis?

 

I converted it to a MR version.

[chris p bacon]

6 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

 

Hello Chris

 

The 00 Poll Team did much research on the GN Quad Arts. We found no evidence of any being run as a 'half set' (ie four coaches). One eminent GN line historian believes that a 4-set did once run, but only as an emergency and not in a 'service train'.

 

The sets were designed to run as 'pairs'. 

 

Brian

 

They were designed to run in pairs but the article is quite a detailed document. It lists details of the services between KX and Grantham for the period Saturday 5th to Thursday the 10th July 1958, it has not only the locomotive and carriage numbers but also the drivers name.  

The Quad art sets are described as 'Brake 2nd plus three 2nds'  The 16.06 Hitchin to Sandy is described as a '4 car set' with the relevant set number for each day. 

Having only moved from Sandy a couple of years ago I was certainly interested in this working when I received a copy of the document. My own research of speaking to those who frequented the station at the time as well as ex signalmen & drivers confirms that this working was just a 4 car.  I learnt that the working arrived in the down platform then set back so the loco could use the down yard to run round, it then used the Down to Up slow series of slips and diamonds to return to Hitchin.   Unfortunately no photographic evidence has come to light. I don't think I'm able to post the complete article here but here is just a short snippet from it.

 

The 16.06 from Hitchin to Sandy provided a short foray along the main line for a four-car articulated suburban set. Three different sets were recorded during the study period. On Wednesday 9th July, the duty was covered by Set No .74, assembled in 1924 from vehicles to a GNR design, which survives in active preservation on the North Norfolk RailwaY.

 

The document is also interesting for me with the information of what vehicles were attached at Sandy such as Horse & livestock. 

[BMacdermott]

Hello Chris

 

Interesting - but I remain to be convinced. I have just spoken with a friend who was involved with the sets at Kings Cross and he knows of no splitting.

 

As far as we know, the 'inner end' buffing gear wouldn't facilitate running 'a service train'. And, as far as we know, the NNR set has had to be specially adapted to run as a four.

 

It would be good if someone knows who 'LA Smith' is (the article author). We could then request to see the actual Guard's Journal entry.

 

Brian

[gr.king]

On 21/04/2023 at 21:38, 60526 said:

In updating or modifying older kits, has anyone experience of using the likes of Hornby or Bachmann wheels instead of Romfords or Gibson etc. In buying the buffers for my 04/8 from Peters Spares I was drawn to the other spares they provide for the O1. I'm impressed by the smooth running of my Hornby O1, so I've ordered a set of O1 driving wheels to try out, at £10 it must be worth a punt? I don't know how much a set of Romfords would cost?

On 21/04/2023 at 21:53, Buhar said:

RTR axles seem to vary in diameter and not many (if any) are either 2mm or 1/8th which are the sizes of bearings for use in kits and not all RTR wheel sets have bearings in the original model.  With a lathe or drill press you might be in with a chance of opening a set to the right size.  There is a huge saving to be made, I'd be interested in hearing how you get on.

 

Alan 

On 22/04/2023 at 07:01, polybear said:

 

Though using Bachmann wheels as a part of a kit built loco will presumably be complicated by the fact that Bachmann don't use 1/8th axles (does anyone make 3mm brass bearings?)

 

Always having an eye for economy, I used some spare coupled wheels from a Hornby LNER Pacific for one of the D7 models with scratchbuilt chassis that I made last year. I have lots of "better" RTR wheels saved for uses in future projects. As I often simply use pieces of plain brass tube in lieu of turned top-hat bearings, it doesn't matter much to me if the axles are not 1/8", not 3mm, and don't come with any bearings, so long as there is a piece of tube in my collection (or one that can easily be obtained) which will slide nicely over the axles. Lots of my own-build tenders ride on Hornby or Bachmann wheels too, as do various coaches and wagons. So long as they are a reasonable profile and the BTB is set to suit, I find they work well. Crank pin compatibility can be a bit of a puzzle when using the RTR driving wheels, but with a file, a drill, and your little grey cells a viable option can usually be found - better still if you happen to possess say a 10 BA tap or a tap that matches your favoured type of crankpin. There is of course always the option of either enlarging holes in rods, or inserting a slice of brass tube to bush them, or indeed soldering a carefully centred washer over the hole to get the required size.

Squires sold me some very inexpensive packets of mixed nylon gears and worms too...

 

Added 23/4/23 In the first image below you can see that I have made Hornby's main driving wheels useable by sawing off the projecting parts of the fat, threaded, brass insert so that a Romford/Markits crank pin can be screwed in to the remaining portion. Obviously, with plastic spokes, when soldering on any crankpin washers it is necessary to have clean bright metal, sufficient flux, a good hot iron carry a small blob of solder, good un-interrupted observation and the ability to remove the iron the moment the solder has flowed. Use of de-luxe crank pins with retaining nuts goes against my financial rules...

Edited April 23, 2023 by gr.king
spelling mistake, added info

[chris p bacon]

26 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

As far as we know, the 'inner end' buffing gear wouldn't facilitate running 'a service train'.

That was my first thought. But I was told it didn't present a problem, but was not ideal. 

 

30 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

involved with the sets at Kings Cross and he knows of no splitting.

Having worked on the railways in the late 70's/80's it was very common that what wasn't working practice at one place was completely different elsewhere, even within the same district.

 

I was quite sceptical about the working, but conversations with ex railwaymen seemed to prove otherwise. I did try and find some of the train registers for Sandy, but those available did not cover the period or working in question.

[Keith Turbutt]

1 hour ago, BMacdermott said:

As far as we know, the 'inner end' buffing gear wouldn't facilitate running 'a service train'. And, as far as we know, the NNR set has had to be specially adapted to run as a four.

 

 

There is an interesting article in Railway World Vol 27 No 312 dated May 1966 by G.M.Kitchenside entitled

"End of the Quad Arts".

 

In it he states "The two four-coach components were not identical, and, as they were close coupled with short buffers at the inner ends they could not work independently and ran as eight coach trains."

It is a six page article with lots of information, diagrams and photos.

 

Although the GN built sets had duckets, like the one shown in the Accurascale illustration, the LNER ones did not have duckets and therefore did not have the recess alongside the guards compartment.  Kitchenside also mentions that it appeared that the brake thirds were designed with six compartments but the sixth compartment was never fitted out but became part of the guards compartment. However the bodyside beading matches what would have been a passenger compartment. In closing he says that the originall quad-arts were built for possible conversion to electric traction had the GN lines been converted by the GN or LNER. I wonder if any 'might have been" modellers will take this up?  

Edited April 22, 2023 by Keith Turbutt
correction to spelling independently