Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

Having spent the weekend with our younger son, John, in Norwich, yesterday we browsed some second-hand/antique shops.

 

With model railway 'bargains' in mind, I was delighted to buy two brand new, boxed maroon Bachmann Mk.1s (those without the roof ribs) for the princely sum of only £27.00. Not each, but for the pair (from Ali Baba's emporium - is that how one spells Baba?). What's a new Bachmann Mk.1 cost these days?

 

There was also a boxed Bachmann long-wheelbase bogie-bolster for £15.00 (with some price 'wiggle room'). 

 

It would appear that it's not just one proprietor, because other second-hand model railway stuff had 'daft' prices on it - £20.00 for a less-than-pristine Hornby Dublo three-rail carmine/cream ex-LMS carriage?

 

It pays to shop around.

 

On the way back, we dropped off at a little show near Reepham this afternoon. Only three quid to get in, and well worth it; nothing 'spectacular' layout-wise, but some excellent demonstrators. I'd like to thank the organisers.  

Edited October 22, 2023 by Tony Wright

[cctransuk]

On 22/10/2023 at 19:00, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Mike,

 

Regarding Hornby's fixed lamps (are they copying Sonic?), the two Turbomotives I've just reviewed (to be published soon in BRM) have them, front and rear. Express passenger is displayed at the front, and stopping passenger at the rear. 

 

While I accept that the former is the more typical, I cannot find any reference of the Turbomotive ever pulling a train in reverse, of any status (certainly not originally, when the reverse turbine could really only move the loco). 

 

When running forwards, the two lamps are illuminated - very, very brightly at full throttle; far too bright to represent just oil-lit ones. Worse, the tail light is red, even if the loco is hauling a train. Even worse, both front lamps illuminate bright red when running in reverse. 

 

Now, it might well be that if DCC-fitted the lamps can be turned off, but certainly not for analogue. It rather 'spoils' superlative models in my view. However, if illuminated, fixed lamps are what the market desires, then I'm way out of touch! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Tony

 

I couldn't agree more! It seems nowadays that authenticity is running a very distant second to gimmicks and bling.

 

It's very odd; on the one hand manufacturers - particularly Hornby - are going to extraordinary lengths to improve detail and accuracy in their models. Yet they then go and ruin the whole illusion by fitting wholly inappropriate tech - just for the sake of being 'innovative' and 'the first'.

 

I understand that less and less potential purchasers saw the prototype - but I do hope that the current trend does not end in a pastiche of the railway - unconvincing sound and smoke; spotlight headlights in fixed configurations; double glaring red tail lights at the rear of locomotives, even when pulling a train.

 

Unfortunately, we seem to be well down that misguided road already......

 

John Isherwood.

Edited October 31, 2023 by cctransuk

[Jol Wilkinson]

54 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Evening Tony,

 

By coincidence I have also just finished a wagon from Bygone Wagons.  It's an LNER Refrigerated van and will be on Grantham at Newcastle.   My build is illustrated here.

 

The 247 products were much simpler to build and I'd have to say the standard of printing was better (which I think is as much due to the equipment used as the design).  

 

The Bygone Wagons design was ingenious and I can see how it can be adapted for a number of prototypes.  Amanda was also very helpful with the ordering process and happy to supply either as kits or assembled.    Printed to a better standard I think they'd make excellent wagons.

 

Neither has quite the definition or finesse of brass, in my opinion, but you pay your money and make your choice  - if there is one.  I'm not sure any of these wagons are currently available in 4mm and some of them never have been to my knowledge.

 

 

 

 

 

Jonathan,

 

the Coral was available as a w/m kit from K's (I think).

 

I was given some castings - but not the whole kit, there were no buffer beams  - late last year. As things GWR are rather a closed book to me, I passed them on to a fellow S4Society member who understood what to do, productively, with them.

 

Jol

[Willie Whizz]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Mike,

 

Regarding Hornby's fixed lamps (are they copying Sonic?), the two Turbomotives I've just reviewed (to be published soon in BRM) have them, front and rear. Express passenger is displayed at the front, and stopping passenger at the rear. 

 

While I accept that the former is the more typical, I cannot find any reference of the Turbomotive ever pulling a train in reverse, of any status (certainly not originally, when the reverse turbine could really only move the loco). 

 

When running forwards, the two lamps are illuminated - very, very brightly at full throttle; far too bright to represent just oil-lit ones. Worse, the tail light is red, even if the loco is hauling a train. Even worse, both front lamps illuminate bright red when running in reverse. 

 

Now, it might well be that if DCC-fitted the lamps can be turned off, but certainly not for analogue. It rather 'spoils' superlative models in my view. However, if illuminated, fixed lamps are what the market desires, then I'm way out of touch! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

But Tony - surely it’s all your fault?  That so well-publicised view that a loco isn’t quite ‘right’ unless it has the correct lamps for the train it’s pulling?  Unfortunately someone seems to have taken you too literally: these various new locos do have lamps all right; just not necessarily the correct lamps for the trains they typically pulled, let alone for the different trains we modellers might want to use them on!  
 

(Sorry, couldn’t resist …. 😁)

[New Haven Neil]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

However, if illuminated, fixed lamps are what the market desires, then I'm way out of touch! 

 

I once had a Hornby A3 4472 returned under warranty - it had been adorned with a copper capped chimney, and a light shining out from the little window next to the corridor connection on the back of the tender.  Tasteful, not....but that is the market we are sometimes dealing with.  Or were, in our case!   Funnily enough Hornby rejected it as a return!

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

It would appear that it's not just one proprietor, because other second-hand model railway stuff had 'daft' prices on it - £20.00 for a less-than-pristine Hornby Dublo three-rail carmine/cream ex-LMS carriage?

 

It pays to shop around.

It was about 20 years ago, but at a secondhand/antique shop near here I picked up the following Hornby-Dublo collection (even the cardboard box it came in was an antique, originally for a long defunct brand of butter):

 

 

Two (large) complete loops, station, footbridge, level crossing, signals, N2 plus two carriages and five wagons - all for £22. 

 

I eventually sold it all on, I think the track alone went for about £50.

[davidw]

I sure that headlamps were tried before. One of the first Duchess of Sutherland locos in the late 70s. It was quickly dropped. 

Is the black 5 and turbomotive an  example of us not learning from past mistakes?

With respect to bargains fairly recently I obtained 13 mks (1 Bsk, 2 cks and the rest SOs and SKs) for150.00.  I've been fortunate with other bargains.

The second hand market remains boyant. Toy fairs, dealers and eBay. Some dealers are desperate to shift stock. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by davidw

[Pint of Adnams]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

On the way back, we dropped off at a little show near Reedham this afternoon. Only three quid to get in, and well worth it; nothing 'spectacular' layout-wise, but some excellent demonstrators. I'd like to thank the organisers.  

I think you'll find that show was in Reepham - Reedham is the location of the ferry crossing the River Yare downstream of Norwich... C.A.K.E Model Railway Group on The UK Model Shop Directory (ukmodelshops.co.uk)

[Coach bogie]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Mike,

 

Accepting my ignorance (please), are they kits or fully-finished? Or, can you have both? 

 

I assume they're complete (unlike the 247 equivalents, where wheels, bearings, buffers, extras and couplings have to be sourced)?

 

If they are finished, then the prices seem fair in comparison.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

They are complete  with wheels in place and primed ready for painting, supplied with nem lock, slimline, tension lock coupling. My last two orders came with spare buffers. The images below show as delivered plus a bag with the couplings and spare buffers. In my opinion the primed aspect is very important as the Bygone Wagons can be painted without further preparation. I have been given other 3D outputs to paint and getting the paint to adhere has been a problem with some outputs.

 

The only one that comes without wheels is the Lomac Loriet. As Polybear points out, postage can be an issue and this works both ways as the source of 10.5mm wheels in the UK requires expensive postage.

 

The most popular one for my friends is the crane runner. I have brought several back to the UK now in anticipation of the Oxford crane. Bygone also sell the crane runner top only for those wanting to use their own underframe.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

[maico]

On 08/06/2023 at 17:36, Tony Wright said:

There is a sort of smokebox, or at least a door, though the throatplate is way too far forwards.

 

There isn't the horizontal fitting for the dart to turn in, either.

 

Which means, as I've said before, why bother? Internal detail like that (which is incorrect, anyway) must add considerably to the cost.

 

With Golden Age seemingly having disappeared, I wonder what that A4 might be worth now? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

A well known Canadian dealers seems to sell them at circa $1600. Worth it IMHO given the amount of Korean brass work involved!

 

What other OO loco models did Golden Age actually make make before going belly up?

 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by maico

[Tony Wright]

38 minutes ago, Pint of Adnams said:

I think you'll find that show was in Reepham - Reedham is the location of the ferry crossing the River Yare downstream of Norwich... C.A.K.E Model Railway Group on The UK Model Shop Directory (ukmodelshops.co.uk)

Yes,

 

Of course - Reepham.

 

I don't know my 'p's from my 'd's - plenty of apostrophes here!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

9 minutes ago, maico said:

 

A well known Canadian dealers seems to sell them at circa $1600. Worth it IMHO given the amount of Korean brass work involved!

 

What other OO loco models did Golden Age actually make make before going belly up?

 

 

Many thanks,

 

In answer to your question, I don't know. I only photographed the OO A4s (with regard to locos), though I did take pictures of O Gauge A1s and A2s, as well as the whole gamut of A4s. 

 

GAM seems to have made the same mistake on its OO 60024 as it did with its O Gauge iteration of the same. That of believing that KINGFISHER should be two words! The same firm's O Gauge 60034 had LORD FARRINGDON on its 'plates! Too many 'r's. 

 

Probably lost in translation.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

They are complete  with wheels in place

And brass bearings.

 

3 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

The only one that comes without wheels

You can now order with or without wheels, for 00 or EM gauge.

 

3 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

10.5mm wheels

But we can get those over here by the hundred!

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't know my 'p's from my 'd's - plenty of apostrophes here!

Inverted commas, I think.

[Coach bogie]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

And brass bearings.

 

You can now order with or without wheels, for 00 or EM gauge.

 

But we can get those over here by the hundred!

I had never noticed they were fitted with brass bearings. Thanks for that one. As they are primed, including the bearings, I missed that.

 

With regards to the 10.5 wheels and the Loriet, Bygone website is still showing without wheels due to postage from UK. I did bring several packs back for Bygone to get around the postage for the local modellers who may not have access. I have struggled to get coach and wagon wheels and buy them as soon as I see them. I empty the shelves of the few packs on display locally.

 

The price difference with 247 is looking justified as purchase a running wagon with Bygone compared with the extras required to get a 247 wagon on the rails.

 

Mike Wiltshire 

[St Enodoc]

9 minutes ago, Coach bogie said:

With regards to the 10.5 wheels and the Loriet, Bygone website is still showing without wheels due to postage from UK. I did bring several packs back for Bygone to get around the postage for the local modellers who may not have access. I have struggled to get coach and wagon wheels and buy them as soon as I see them. I empty the shelves of the few packs on display locally.

10.5mm wheels to NMRA standards are available from many Australian suppliers/retailers - they correspond to 3ft diameter in 3.5mm scale of course.

[Clive Mortimore]

Hello Tony,

 

The lights on turbomotive sound horrendous. I thought the fixed rear red light was only a problem on diesel locos. I once asked Phil Sutton why on his wonderful BR Type 2s they had both lights illuminated, and why were they on when hauling a train. " The customers expect them". 

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Inverted commas, I think.

Indeed,

 

My (incorrect) description was deliberate, given the recent debate! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hello Tony,

 

The lights on turbomotive sound horrendous. I thought the fixed rear red light was only a problem on diesel locos. I once asked Phil Sutton why on his wonderful BR Type 2s they had both lights illuminated, and why were they on when hauling a train. " The customers expect them". 

Good morning Clive,

 

 

Here are the 'fixed' lamps on the two Hornby 'Turbomotives'. I've put 'fixed' into inverted commas because I haven't tried to remove them, but they appear to be permanently in place. 

 

 

The light appears to be carried via a clear plastic 'conduit' running from the source (inside the front of the smokebox), dividing into two beneath the front platform; very ingenious.  It's covered by a kind of opaque, hard 'sponge' material which prevents light leaks. It certainly works, but it means that the front steps can only be fitted after part of it is scraped away!

 

 

The rear lamp is fixed for a Class B working, and is permanently illuminated when running - red going forwards; white going in reverse.

 

In this respect, it's absurd. When hauling a train going forwards, no lamp would be carried on the tender's rear; if running light engine forwards, a red lamp would be displayed, but above either buffer; if running light engine in reverse, a white light would be displayed, but just above the coupling hook. As mentioned, I doubt if any train were ever hauled by 'Turbomotive' in reverse. 

 

Your comments from Phil Sutton are interesting. In that respect, I assume Hornby's customers now expect the same - illumination everywhere! 

 

As I mentioned earlier, employing DCC could well mean that the lights can be extinguished whatever direction a loco might be travelling, though the lamps will always be there. As also mentioned, I could well be the one 'out of touch' now with what the market expects/demands, and I should not be 'critical' of such 'gimmicks'. It's just that these are such wonderful locos, and, to me, the illuminated lamps add nothing but 'inaccuracy' to a very accurate model. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[MJI]

I suppose the next thing will be a loud speaker playing the theme to Thomas the Tank Engine.

[60027Merlin]

12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Many thanks,

 

In answer to your question, I don't know. I only photographed the OO A4s (with regard to locos), though I did take pictures of O Gauge A1s and A2s, as well as the whole gamut of A4s. 

 

GAM seems to have made the same mistake on its OO 60024 as it did with its O Gauge iteration of the same. That of believing that KINGFISHER should be two words! The same firm's O Gauge 60034 had LORD FARRINGDON on its 'plates! Too many 'r's. 

 

Probably lost in translation.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

In addition Tony, the badge should not be there, as it was fitted later when the livery was B. R. green!

 

Eric

 

[t-b-g]

In my view, the RTR firms are just looking to find something they can add to their locos to make them "better" than previous ones, or those produced by others.

 

Once you have reached a certain level of detail and performance, things like working lights, moving bits, opening smokebox doors and such gimmicks are more about giving their products something they can shout about in their sales pitches rather than meeting any actual needs.

 

There seems to be an attempt to cater for two quite different markets. "Proper" modellers want an accurate, well detailed replica. If there are some fancy gadgets on it, then sales in the "train set" market might get a boost.

 

I would beg to differ about the lamps being fixed and not removable.

 

I bet I could get them off!

[Ollie K]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

In this respect, it's absurd. When hauling a train going forwards, no lamp would be carried on the tender's rear; if running light engine forwards, a red lamp would be displayed, but above either buffer; if running light engine in reverse, a white light would be displayed, but just above the coupling hook. As mentioned, I doubt if any train were ever hauled by 'Turbomotive' in reverse. 

 

 

Morning Tony,

 

A while ago someone posted this image in the Turbomotive's thread. I was surprised it didn't generate more conversation as it appears to show exactly that: 6202 hauling a long train in reverse, with a Class D lamp code on the tender rear. It doesn't appear to be banking another loco. The crew member just visible in the cab appears to be facing towards the camera. Anyone the wiser what's going on here?

 

 

( Image source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/49596730417/ )

 

Completely agree with your sentiments on the otherwise fine-looking model being spoiled by a deliberately erroneous 'feature'. Even more curious when you note the model itself isn't marred with a front coupling pocket to allow it to tow RTR stock tender-first, and that Hornby's own marketing literature notes "the smaller reversed turbine did not have enough power and was not strong enough to reverse if the locomotive was connected to a heavy rake of coaches. Due to this, the ‘Turbomotive’ always had to be facing forward when hauling passenger trains."

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/turbomotive-stanier-success

 

I reckon this has been in the offing for a while: the unrebuilt W1s were supplied with overscale lamps fixed into either express passenger or (also weirdly) royal train headcodes. The upcoming Black 5 is also causing consternation over the same feature, albeit with brightly lit lamps this time.

 

Cheers,

 

Ollie

Edited October 23, 2023 by OliverBytham

[Mark Laidlay]

17 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Mike,

 

Regarding Hornby's fixed lamps (are they copying Sonic?), the two Turbomotives I've just reviewed (to be published soon in BRM) have them, front and rear. Express passenger is displayed at the front, and stopping passenger at the rear. 

 

.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

We see lights on Australian models as well but often with switches underneath so the lights can be turned off.  Locos also often come with directional lighting, that might have been great in the '80s but that's not how real loco lights work.  DCC can be configured to do it properly.

Mark in Melbourne

[Tony Wright]

49 minutes ago, OliverBytham said:

 

Morning Tony,

 

A while ago someone posted this image in the Turbomotive's thread. I was surprised it didn't generate more conversation as it appears to show exactly that: 6202 hauling a long train in reverse, with a Class D lamp code on the tender rear. It doesn't appear to be banking another loco. The crew member just visible in the cab appears to be facing towards the camera. Anyone the wiser what's going on here?

 

 

( Image source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/49596730417/ )

 

Completely agree with your sentiments on the otherwise fine-looking model being spoiled by a deliberately erroneous 'feature'. Even more curious when you note the model itself isn't marred with a front coupling pocket to allow it to tow RTR stock tender-first, and that Hornby's own marketing literature notes "the smaller reversed turbine did not have enough power and was not strong enough to reverse if the locomotive was connected to a heavy rake of coaches. Due to this, the ‘Turbomotive’ always had to be facing forward when hauling passenger trains."

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/engine-shed/turbomotive-stanier-success

 

I reckon this has been in the offing for a while: the unrebuilt W1s were supplied with overscale lamps fixed into either express passenger or (also weirdly) royal train headcodes. The upcoming Black 5 is also causing consternation over the same feature, albeit with brightly lit lamps this time.

 

Cheers,

 

Ollie

Good afternoon Ollie,

 

A unique picture, I'd say. 

 

It's definitely Bushey Troughs, and the train is running (I believe) on the Up Fast. As for the headcode - 'Express freight/livestock/perishables/ballast with no more than one third of the vehicles fitted/piped', the train is nothing of those (unless passengers are classed as 'livestock'!). I rather fancy the train is empty and one put together from a mixture of stock for a test? 

 

The fact that the reverse turbine had to be later increased in size suggests that 'Turbomotive' struggled to haul anything going backwards. 

 

Other than the above observations, I'm completely baffled. I know several on here are experts in matters LMS; would they like to comment, please? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.