Wright writes.....

TT100 Diesels · November 9, 2023

Nice work TTPete,

Getting way above my pay scale, etched brass 24/25, 47's, 50's, and that D600 Warship, fantastic work. And the 3d print Hymek on a cobbled chassis, that surely must be one of THE first TT120 non rtr loco modelling in British outline? Kudos to you.

It would be great if we got some 3mm finescale steam outline on here as well, to be honest. I put out an appeal on our society e-group this morning to try to persuade 3mm folk to post on RMWeb either layouts or locos, there is a lot of great stuff, mostly steam outline.

And a lot of talented modellers that have fought with un-buildable kits to end up with great models, such as the WD 2-8-0 that won this years steam outline modelling competition at the society AGM.

Best wishes

TT100 Diesels

polybear · November 9, 2023

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Brian,

I recall when Norman was laying the track for Little Bytham, to test the efficacy of the pointwork he had a coach bogie with one axle set to the 'maximum' b-t-b and the other to the 'minimum b-t-b for 'finescale' OO. This was propelled through all the points/crossings, with adjustments made as necessary.

Norman had brought along those very bogies to Missenden Abbey with him - I measured one wheelset B2B at 14.5mm and the other at 14.8mm; he also had an 0-6-0 loco chassis block (which looked as though it may have been a 4-6-2 once upon a time) but I never had the chance to measure that

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I had the opportunity to demonstrate the use of a piercing saw at Missenden this weekend. My success at this technique is very much down to buying decent blades. Anybody who struggles using the blades bought from model railway suppliers should try some good ones to see the difference. The ones I use are from Vallorbe. More often than not I can now cut a straight line that needs little or no cleaning up.

A good friend of mine (a retired top-end Jeweller - he made the stuff rather than sell it) had a similar view - the cost of the blades he uses scared me.

Tony Wright · November 9, 2023

25 minutes ago, polybear said:

Norman had brought along those very bogies to Missenden Abbey with him - I measured one wheelset B2B at 14.5mm and the other at 14.8mm; he also had an 0-6-0 loco chassis block (which looked as though it may have been a 4-6-2 once upon a time) but I never had the chance to measure that

A good friend of mine (a retired top-end Jeweller - he made the stuff rather than sell it) had a similar view - the cost of the blades he uses scared me.

Good afternoon Brian,

Yes, the chassis was that of a Pacific - a Tri-ang Britannia I think. I gave it to Norman.

Regards,

Tony.

Tony Wright · November 9, 2023

1 hour ago, TT-Pete said:

A Lurker unlurks

Coming back to the subject of 3mm for a moment if I may, and my abject apologies for dragging the thread even further off back into 3mm diesels long grass, I agree and empathise with everything @TT100 Diesels has said upthread. Like him I am not a purist and am quite happy with things that more or less “look right” (even if others might recoil aghast in horror).

If you can get over, deal with, turn a blind eye to, learn to live with and even embrace (if you’re a bit cussed, tend to support underdogs and uniqueness appeals to you), the initial gauge/scale issue with 12mm track (let’s not mention 14.2 or 13.5), then it’s not a problem and 3mm has a lot going for it. But it is a Marmite scale; people tend to love it, or loathe it.

I can’t call anything of what I do “finescale”, I don’t aspire to it. Ok, sure, so it’s nice to have good-looking models, but for me the challenge is of just getting there and, as a bonus, having something that actually works reliably. Also, given that if you wanted to finescale in 3mm then you’d almost by definition also be having to make your own handbuilt track and turnouts to finescale spec. No thank you, life’s too short. So that neatly removes that expectation from me anyway.

Being thereby relegated to the ranks of “lesser” modeller (yaaa, boo) :^) I’m just looking to see what I can achieve in my splodgy and bodgy way, learning new techniques and trying out a few things along the way. I’m reasonably happy with the level I’ve reached, but it’s always nice to stand back from a finished model and think “well, that came out better than expected.” A ratio of about 1 of those for every 10 of those when you stand back and think “Aww, boll*x.” is nice. But as I am effectively only competing against myself, there is only one step on the rostrum anyway. :^)

Tell me to shut up if I go on a bit…

Like many I started off by chopping up old Tri-ang A1As, in the early 2000’s these were about £20-30 from the 3mm Society shop with a seemingly limitless supply, so this this was also a good source of donor power bogies.

Some people really go to town on these (conversions to 14.2 gauge anyone?) but my adaptations have been limited to fitting dual power bogies (the original locos are a bit anaemic) and a few different liveries (and yes I know the roof isn’t clipped on snugly at the cab end, it’s been bugging me for ages).

Resin body kits such as the old L&J models or Bruce Smetham bodies were a nice introduction to chassis construction, it’s easy with diesels, there’s a large gaping body to hide all the gubbins.

A majorly chopped-about East-German BTTB electric loco Bo-Bo chassis underpins both of these.

But by far and away the most common reason I hear for people not wanting to get involved in the scale is that of soldering. Again, it’s easier for a “Modern Image” modeller as things tend to be flatter with only things like roof curves and tumblehomes to worry about. I was not helped by starting off etched brass kits with atrocious soldering skills, but had only a handful of unspeakable disasters (a decidedly shonky class 25 was instantly returned to its flat-pack state when I dropped a pack of plaster ceiling coving on it. It was the kindest thing to do.) things have gradually moved forwards.

I find that paintwork and varnish hide a multitude of sins.

The Worsley Works “North British Warship” kit has been my most challenging build to date and so she spent a considerable amount of time on the slipway prior to launching;

As you don’t get any castings, drawings or instructions on how to put it together I spent quite a bit of time just puzzling over the bits before daring to even touch a soldering iron. Referring to photos of the actual loco meant a fair bit of hacking around as I thought it looked wrong as built, or did Allen know something when doing the artwork that I don’t?

I used a pair of Bullant Co-Co power bogies for power and fitted scratchbuilt bogie sideframes made using springs, axlebox etc… details cut from scrap BTTB 1:120 bogies.

She’s by far the most powerful loco in my stud with excellent stead-footed running and steady low-speed crawl, but Bullants were very expensive even back then, do they still make them?

And I noted in a post previously up the thread the view expressed that TT 1:120 is unlikely to be a modeller’s scale as with 3mm. But I dunno, I’ve had a first stab at a Lincoln Locos 1:120 build, transfers very kindly rescaled by @cctransuk and shown with a Hornby 1:120 brakevan.

Now, I also quite fancy the idea of a 1:120 LMS 10000, or possibly a Deltic and I also harbour the suspicion that a BTTB Br56 2-8-0 chassis might be made to squeeze under the 8F boiler and footplate. Hmmm…

But I’m not giving up on 3mm either and am trying to construct a layout where both will be able to run without clouting structures and not looking too out of place. We’ll see.

There’s also been some 3mm scratchbuilding going on, but maybe that’s for another time?

Cheers,

Peter.

Great stuff, Peter.

Thanks for showing us.

Regards,

Tony.

t-b-g · November 9, 2023

24 minutes ago, polybear said:

A good friend of mine (a retired top-end Jeweller - he made the stuff rather than sell it) had a similar view - the cost of the blades he uses scared me.

I get the Vallorbe ones from H S Walsh. At the time, there was a bit of discount for bulk buying and a friend and I each bought a bulk pack, which we split, so we had half a bulk pack of two different sizes.

As they are so superior to the previous ones I used, I find that they don't "snatch" as often and they actually last much longer. Nowadays, I often discard blades that have gone blunt and stopped cutting well before I break them.

The Vallorbe blades were about £3 for a pack of 10. Hardly extravagant, although Walsh don't have the Vallorbe blades in the sizes I ordered any longer.

Tony Wright · November 9, 2023

3 hours ago, ScRSG said:

Attached is a photo of the K1/1 built from the ABS/ECJS kit, Interesting you have correctly chosen the only straight footplate example. Kits for this loco do appear on ebay from time to time, but would not have the straight footplate.

Chas

Good afternoon Chas,

Unless I've got completely the wrong end of the stick (which happens very often these days), isn't the loco you're showing a K4? From which the original K1/1 was rebuilt?

I thought the K4 kit was by Dave Alexander, ECJM (Nick Campling) or ABS (Adrian Swain) only ever making an L1 and V4.

Regards,

Tony.

Tony Wright · November 9, 2023

18 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I get the Vallorbe ones from H S Walsh. At the time, there was a bit of discount for bulk buying and a friend and I each bought a bulk pack, which we split, so we had half a bulk pack of two different sizes.

As they are so superior to the previous ones I used, I find that they don't "snatch" as often and they actually last much longer. Nowadays, I often discard blades that have gone blunt and stopped cutting well before I break them.

The Vallorbe blades were about £3 for a pack of 10. Hardly extravagant, although Walsh don't have the Vallorbe blades in the sizes I ordered any longer.

Good afternoon Tony,

I have no idea who made my piercing saw blades, where they were purchased (other than one pack of ten I bought of Pat Ryan many years ago), nor the sizes I have; though I have loads and loads. How? A chap I knew back in Wolverhampton had died and his widow was chucking away all his modelling tools/kit. 'If you don't want this rubbish, it's all going in the bin! Please take it, and I don't want anything for it, I just want it gone!'.

The blades are of very good quality.

Regards,

Tony.

thegreenhowards · November 9, 2023

5 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Hi Peter,

I love the K1/1. Do you have a West Highland layout on which to run it?

As for the tender, I believe Dave Bradwell does the type you need.

http://www.davebradwell.co.uk

I bought one of these for my V4 (which currently has a Hornby tender), but I don’t think I’m ever going to build it as I am concentrating my West Highland modelling on O gauge, so if you’re interested I’d be happy to sell it to you for what I paid which was £50. Send me a PM.

Regards

Andy

As we’re getting a few West Highland engines on here today, I thought I’d show my little and large V4s.

The 00 version is scratch built on an old Hornby tender drive chassis. it still had horrible Hornby valve gear when I bought it, but Tony helped me put Jamieson valve gear on a few years ago - in the days when I wouldn’t contemplate that sort of thing myself! Thanks to Tony’s training I’m now happy building my own. This is what I bought my Dave Bradwell tender for - I’m not sure I’ll ever get round to building it though!

’Large’ is built from an Ace products kit which seems to have been put together extremely well cosmetically given their reputation. I bought it looking like this, but running like a pig and it soon got worse when the valve gear fell apart after a couple of stuttering circuits of Glenfinnan! But that was quite easy to repair and an ABC motor /gearbox has it running very sweetly - the old gearbox was jamming somewhere in the mechanism.

It’s not often I can say that I have models of all members of a class. Falcon and DP2 are the only others!

Andy

Tony Wright · November 9, 2023

18 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

As we’re getting a few West Highland engines on here today, I thought I’d show my little and large V4s.

The 00 version is scratch built on an old Hornby tender drive chassis. it still had horrible Hornby valve gear when I bought it, but Tony helped me put Jamieson valve gear on a few years ago - in the days when I wouldn’t contemplate that sort of thing myself! Thanks to Tony’s training I’m now happy building my own. This is what I bought my Dave Bradwell tender for - I’m not sure I’ll ever get round to building it though!

’Large’ is built from an Ace products kit which seems to have been put together extremely well cosmetically given their reputation. I bought it looking like this, but running like a pig and it soon got worse when the valve gear fell apart after a couple of stuttering circuits of Glenfinnan! But that was quite easy to repair and an ABC motor /gearbox has it running very sweetly - the old gearbox was jamming somewhere in the mechanism.

It’s not often I can say that I have models of all members of a class. Falcon and DP2 are the only others!

Andy

Good afternoon Andy,

This is one of the best V4 models I've ever seen...........

Scratch-built in OO by Mike Edge.

I imagine Ian Rathbone eventually painted it.

Regards,

Tony.

MarkC · November 9, 2023

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Chas,

Unless I've got completely the wrong end of the stick (which happens very often these days), isn't the loco you're showing a K4? From which the original K1/1 was rebuilt?

I thought the K4 kit was by Dave Alexander, ECJM (Nick Campling) or ABS (Adrian Swain) only ever making an L1 and V4.

Regards,

Tony.

I think you're spot on, Tony.

I've got the very last K4 kit - as the late Dave A told me as I handed over a wedge of beer vouchers to him in exchange for said kit - in my roundtuit collection, along with an ABS L1 kit. I really must get round to building the K4. Hopefully next trip...

Cheers

Mark

Tony Wright · November 9, 2023

A few more loco types which would have worked on the West Highland............

K1s were common on the West Highland (though not these actual English-shedded ones, which work on Bytham).

I built 62018 from a Nu-Cast kit, which Geoff Haynes painted, I built from 62070 from a DMR kit, painted it and Tom Foster weathered it, and 63038 is all John Houlden's work from a Nu-Cast kit.

Another DMR K1 (builder/painter unknown).

And another Nu-Cast K1, built/painted by the late Graham Varley which I sold on behalf of a widow.

K2s with side window cabs were transferred to the WH line; this is built from a Nu-Cast kit but I can't remember by whom.

Another (this time) Nu-Cast & Partners Scottish K2, the work (I think) of Eric Kidd.

In the distance is my scratch-built K4....

Seen again alongside a Dave Alexander K4 (Eric Kidd's work), 61998 unusually hauling the afternoon 'Talisman'.

And a closer look at my scratch-built K4, representing 3442 as it first appeared in preservation (the only K4 I ever saw).

Another Dave Alexander K4, and another loco I sold on behalf of a widow.

Eric Kidd brought his ABS V4 (right) along to run on LB on one occasion.

Along with his D34.

I think Sandra Orpen brought this ABS V4 along for a run.

I did scratch-build the K1/1 some years ago, and then sold it. Its picture appeared in one of my books.

I feel very fortunate to have so many folk bring their models along to run on Little Bytham, even though West Highland ones would never be seen in reality.

polybear · November 9, 2023

5 hours ago, Galagars said:

On the subject of “OO” trac k standards, surely increasing the check rail flangeway to 1.5 mm cannot be right? This would reduce the check gauge. What would happen at an obtuse crossing where the flangeways have to be symmetric?

It certainly appears to work very well on LB; I measured the thickness of the Check Rail "Gauge"** that Norman had at Missenden Abbey and it was indeed 1.5mm, give or take a few hundredths of a mm.

** Basically three C&L thick sleeper offcuts glued together in a shape resembling the Greek letter “π”

Tony Wright · November 9, 2023

1 hour ago, polybear said:

It certainly appears to work very well on LB; I measured the thickness of the Check Rail "Gauge"** that Norman had at Missenden Abbey and it was indeed 1.5mm, give or take a few hundredths of a mm.

** Basically three C&L thick sleeper offcuts glued together in a shape resembling the Greek letter “π”

Good evening Brian,

I've never measured any of Norman Solomon's pointwork on Little Bytham. I only know that it works.

Regards,

Tony.

ScRSG · November 9, 2023

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Chas,

Unless I've got completely the wrong end of the stick (which happens very often these days), isn't the loco you're showing a K4? From which the original K1/1 was rebuilt?

I thought the K4 kit was by Dave Alexander, ECJM (Nick Campling) or ABS (Adrian Swain) only ever making an L1 and V4.

Regards,

Tony.

Tony,

You are absolutely correct of course, old age tends to create mix ups like this! I've always mixed up my "K's" ! It was the number series which threw me. The V4 was the ECJM/ABS kit aand is shown below.

Chas

Michael Edge · November 10, 2023

The V4 went to Ian Rathbone for painting, Ian's photo below.

The etch I used to build this loco is now available from Judith Edge kits (not a kit as such, just the etches, chimney and dome).

Tony Wright · November 10, 2023

There's a fourth K1 on Bytham's stud (I'd forgotten about it yesterday).

Another Nu-Cast one (rather shabbier than the same loco built/painted by Graham Varley seen yesterday).

It came from Geoff West (who'd acquired it from eBay, I think) and he was selling it on after weathering it. I took pity on it!

Though it has an older-style, open-framed five-pole motor, it's a very sweet runner.

Tony Wright · November 10, 2023

Three new locos just received from Hornby for assessment.............

A sound-fitted WR 9F.

Part of the 'Big Four' collection, this Gresley A1.

And another from the 'Big Four' collection, this Castle.

I'll be reviewing these for BRM..........

Barry Ten · November 10, 2023

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Three new locos just received from Hornby for assessment.............

A sound-fitted WR 9F.

Surprising how far off the rails that middle wheel on the 9F is. Probably not that evident from normal layout angles, though.

MJI · November 10, 2023

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

Surprising how far off the rails that middle wheel on the 9F is. Probably not that evident from normal layout angles, though.

I cannot unsee it now.

Reminds me I still need a 1985 Castle

MikeParkin65 · November 10, 2023

2 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

Surprising how far off the rails that middle wheel on the 9F is. Probably not that evident from normal layout angles, though.

Hard to get a photo at the same angle (or quality!) as Tony but the Bachmann version is much superior in this respect

Tony Wright · November 10, 2023

3 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Hard to get a photo at the same angle (or quality!) as Tony but the Bachmann version is much superior in this respect

Good evening Mike,

Bachmann's 9F centre drivers certainly appear to be in contact with the rails.

As is evident in this shot of Bachmann's EVENING STAR.

Interestingly, Hornby's 'Railroad' EVENING STAR appears to have its flangeless centre drivers touching the rails.

As does another manifestation of Hornby's latest 9F, EVENING STAR.

Perhaps my latest example is a one off?

This other manifestation of Hornby's latest 9F's centre drivers are also touching the rails (and you can just make out the 'open' frames).

A detailed earlier Hornby 9F also has its centre drivers in the right place (this is loco-drive).

Where both this manifestation and the Bachmann example suffer is in having a solid block for the chassis.

Underneath, the latest Hornby 9F does have the tops of separate frames (just visible), but no RTR examples have the prominent sandpipes visible in silhouette.

I think the best 'compromise' using RTR items is to take an RTR body and put in on etched brass frames - in this case, an earlier Hornby 9F body running on Comet frames (the tops of the 'open' frames can be seen, as well as a sandpipe).

I built this for Rob Kinsey, who painted/weathered it).

Of course, in a layout setting, any 'differences' rather disappear; seen here with one of my DJH 9F (left) passing a Bachmann example.

And.............

Whatever the merits of the latest RTR locos, I still prefer to build my own (that's not to say they're better), illustrated here by one of my DJH/Model Loco 9Fs.

Regards,

Tony.

MJI · November 10, 2023

My 9F is Bachmann , mid 80s use.

Still annoyed it was not ready for Gloucester Swindon services

TT-Pete · November 10, 2023

On 09/11/2023 at 13:33, TT100 Diesels said:

It would be great if we got some 3mm finescale steam outline on here as well, there is a lot of great stuff, such as the WD 2-8-0 that won this years steam outline modelling competition at the society AGM.

Thank you for your kind comments. 🙂

And I'm glad that by chance you happened to mention that, @TT100 Diesels as I just so happen to have a few pics left over from publicity officer days, this little lot are winners and highly-commendeds from the Society AGM competitions in 2003 and 2005, unforunately I've lost the notes of what was what and made by who, but there's some right varied stuff in here, see what you think,

the output of "proper" modellers... 😁

Locos: