Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Yesterday I had the pleasure of a visiting Sandra and her truly magnificent Retford layout.  I have seen it twice before but I was still taken aback by the sheer size of it.  The layout has moved on significantly since my last visit which was several years ago when Roy was still alive.  It is now significantly greener with many more buildings and signals installed. 

 

I took the liberty of taking some of my Clayton locos with me in the hope that I might be allowed to 'stretch their legs'.  After recent comments on here with regards the challenge that the boat train has posed and finding a loco capable of handling it, I was keen to try out one of my MIT (motor-in-tender) constructed models on this train.  I chose my J2, the chassis of which I showed on here a few posts back when discussing motor/gearbox combo's.  I am delighted to say that it started the train on the gradient in the fiddle yard without hesitation.  I know Roy had tried a similar drive system with one of his own models but without success.  This revised drive using High Level gear components and a HL1320 coreless motor seems to work.       

 

 

Just for fun I asked Sandra if I could try my smallest MIT loco (a J7) on the long goods.  This is normally hauled by a DJH 9F.  I think we both felt there was little chance that it would succeed, in particular because the line climbs at the far end of the fiddle yard before entering the scenic section.  In reality, and to my delight,  the model took the train without hesitation.  This was the first loco in which I installed an MIT drive and for this I used a 1624 coreless motor 'borrowed' from a noisy Portescap unit.

 

 

My sincere thanks to Sandra for inviting me to visit Retford and for allowing me to run my models.  A thoroughly enjoyable day's outing to see a remarkable layout.

Frank    

Superlative locos Frank!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Sandra was at Little Bytham today, along with Geoff West, George Stevenson and David Rae, all part of the Bytham operating 'gang'. And operate the layout they all did, with great diligence and prowess. Thank you all.

 

Geoff collected the two locos he purchased off Tom Foster (I'd had them for 12 days to remove the decoders). Just to make sure they both still ran well, I gave them a spin on the layout..............

 

 

The new Nu-Cast & Partners 16XX, which I'd built in 2017 for a review, selling it on to Tom afterwards. 

 

It needs weathering.

 

 

 

Then we have a Bachmann 57XX, weathered by Tom. It had lost its smokebox dart, so I fitted a replacement. 

 

Thanks for your generous donation to CRUK, Geoff, for my doing these jobs.

 

Both locos ran very well in de-decoded mode, though the 57XX needed a fast spin round before it was fully-free.

 

David brought a couple of interesting locos along............

 

 

 

A much-modified Kitmaster/Airfix 76XXX on a re-wheeled Triang 82XXX chassis.

 

 

And a K's Kirtley 0-6-0, though not with K's wheels or K's motor. 

 

Both of these loco performed very well. 

 

Thanks to the team for today's (almost) perfect three hours of operating. Here's to the next session in the New Year. 

 

This wonderful hobby of hours is great therapy for leaving the woes of the world behind (at least for a while). I know of no better way of spending a day in the company of dear friends, operating a model railway!  

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Tony Wright
missing word

[t-b-g]

6 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

Yesterday I had the pleasure of a visiting Sandra and her truly magnificent Retford layout.  I have seen it twice before but I was still taken aback by the sheer size of it.  The layout has moved on significantly since my last visit which was several years ago when Roy was still alive.  It is now significantly greener with many more buildings and signals installed. 

 

I took the liberty of taking some of my Clayton locos with me in the hope that I might be allowed to 'stretch their legs'.  After recent comments on here with regards the challenge that the boat train has posed and finding a loco capable of handling it, I was keen to try out one of my MIT (motor-in-tender) constructed models on this train.  I chose my J2, the chassis of which I showed on here a few posts back when discussing motor/gearbox combo's.  I am delighted to say that it started the train on the gradient in the fiddle yard without hesitation.  I know Roy had tried a similar drive system with one of his own models but without success.  This revised drive using High Level gear components and a HL1320 coreless motor seems to work.       

 

 

Just for fun I asked Sandra if I could try my smallest MIT loco (a J7) on the long goods.  This is normally hauled by a DJH 9F.  I think we both felt there was little chance that it would succeed, in particular because the line climbs at the far end of the fiddle yard before entering the scenic section.  In reality, and to my delight,  the model took the train without hesitation.  This was the first loco in which I installed an MIT drive and for this I used a 1624 coreless motor 'borrowed' from a noisy Portescap unit.

 

 

My sincere thanks to Sandra for inviting me to visit Retford and for allowing me to run my models.  A thoroughly enjoyable day's outing to see a remarkable layout.

Frank    

 

Lovely stuff Frank.

 

Ken Hill and I once visited Roy and took a few locos along to try out. We put Ken's GEM Midland Compound on the "Boat Train". It has a genuine Triang X04 (in the body - no fancy tender drive), old Romford wheels, with mazak tyres one side and Triang gears, with the drive gear bushed to fit a 1/8th inch Romford axle.

 

It was at the time Roy was struggling to get his B17 to pull the train. He was genuinely not very amused when the Compound romped away with it!

 

Why Roy struggled so much was a mystery to me. He was quite capable of building good hauling locos but he just had a blind spot with that train. It was always lack of adhesion rather than power that was the problem. He even used some "Bullfrog Snot" on the loco driving wheels, which created a sort of traction tyre. That enabled his B17 to pull the train but it was always a less than ideal fix as it reduced the pick ups and the loco didn't run as smoothly.

Edited December 5, 2023 by t-b-g
typo

[robertcwp]

As the 'driver' of Frank's J2 on the up Boat Train, I can confirm that it was on rather less than full power when Frank took the video. There was no trace of slip or difficulty in taking the train up the gradient in the GC fiddleyard. Once it was running, it would go round happily without any adjustment of the controller. This is I think the heavier of the two Boat Trains as I don't think I have taken the ballast weights of of the stock in this one. I did so for the down train. All the Boat Train stock is currently RTR, which has made the train a bit lighter than it was in Roy's day. It's still a good test, though, as it's an 11-carriage train.

[robertcwp]

Speaking of Retford, this video from 2016 shows what I believe is a guest engine on test on Retford. Footage is credited to Tim Easter.  The slightly disturbing thing is that I appear in the background. Others may recognise themselves. At least one person, Chris Foren, who appears is no longer with us.

 

This is another video from the day.

Edited December 4, 2023 by robertcwp
Typo.

[Mark Laidlay]

This packaging mentions the Kean link, I guess that makes it very early.  All three boxes are empty.

[Tony Wright]

Chris Walsh and I have been editing my footage of Hornby's celebratory 'Big Four' locos and the sound-fitted latest 9F (Andy York did a fine job of editing the footage already, but Chris and I have had a go, too).

 

We've included some other Hornby locos as stills, representative of the Grouping from 1923-1948.

 

Including..................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are many more...............

Edited December 5, 2023 by Tony Wright
typo error

[gr.king]

I can't say that it really concerns me, as I have no intention of using a Portescap coreless motor, but if I really wanted to mate one to a worm drive then knowing the vulnerability of the bearings I'd be asking myself if I could contrive some simple sort of supplementary means of resisting end thrust, a firmly supported washer either (i.e. each) end of the worm gear for instance.

Edited December 6, 2023 by gr.king
Clarification

[billbedford]

4 hours ago, gr.king said:

I can't say that it really concerns me, as I have no intention of using a Portescap coreless motor, but if I really wanted to mate one to a worm drive then knowing the vulnerability of the bearings I'd be asking myself if I could contrive some simple sort of supplementary means of resisting end thrust, a firmly supported washer either end of the worm gear for instance.

 

You can get small thrust bearings, but you will need to arrange two on the shaft to take up the end float in both directions. This suggests an enclosed gearbox. 

[Pebbles]

This is merely a question. Escap is a Swiss manufacture of coreless motors. Was the Escap description in Portescape referring to this manufacture and if so were these high quality motors capable of absorbing end thrust. If this were not the case it would explain why Micro Metal Smith's motor had a reduction gear box remote from the final drive.

[Izzy]

The inherent design of coreless motors is such that they aren’t or weren’t when first originated (end of the 1950’s) able to absorb end thrust, at least towards the commutator end. Some, the larger ones, often have circlip shaft retention which can act as a simple thrust washer. Designs evolve of course and many now can but in the early days many modellers wrecked these expensive Swiss motors by trying to force fit a worm on the shaft.

 

Bob

[Tony Wright]

Thanks for all the comments regarding various drives.

 

One thing puzzles me, however. It would seem that the original Portescaps with a coreless Swiss motor and English gearbox with an initial bevel drive was a perfect combination, so why try and use either of the components in another arrangement? Or, have I misunderstood (not uncommon)? Obviously, the Swiss motors were not meant to have an 'end-thrust' as such; they were entirely compatible with the gearbox they were designed for (or was the gearbox designed for them?). 

 

In my experience, when they first appeared, there was nothing to touch them. I recall when I first used one (installed in a loco I built for a customer), it was a revelation. Previously, I'd spend ages meshing gears (straight Romfords) to get smooth (if often noisy) performance - I obviously succeeded because I still have several locos powered by Airfix/MW005/Jepson/Bulldog/Romford drives, still going strong approaching their half-century (note, I don't include K's in that list!). With Portescaps, we had a drive which literally just dropped into the frames, was quiet at source and very powerful, with the added advantage that the drivers could be rotated by hand. Yes, there have been subsequent 'issues', including the failure of the flimsy brushes, units not used for years 'gumming-up' and the intolerable whining howl of later units. However, they're still the first choice of many (all the ones I had for sale recently just flew!) and they still command high prices. I believe the massive Carlisle layout's locos use them exclusively. 

 

Of course today we have alternatives, at least of their equal. DJH's own motor/gearbox is just as convenient, similarly-priced, very powerful but doesn't have the convenience of being able to rotate the drivers by hand with the final gear engaged. As mentioned, High-Level 'boxes are very good, provided they're assembled very carefully. I've had one or two which haven't been (built by others), and they're not smooth and they're noisy. Without claiming too much 'ability', the three I've erected have run perfectly. 

 

The fact that Portescaps still sell for high prices (despite their not having been available new for years) proves their efficacy and popularity. I have at least half a dozen which will be going into the next LNER Pacifics/V2s I build. Watch this space...................

[Michael Edge]

We have a large proportion of Portescap powered locos on Carlisle but by no means all. I did find a better (quieter) alternative in the last motor/gearbox produced by Geoff Brewin for Comet, this is in one of the Princesses and is the equal of anything, a Maxon motor on an excellent gearbox. I don’t know whether this is still available though. Geoff couldn’t stand the whine if Portescaps either.

[Jol Wilkinson]

14 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

We have a large proportion of Portescap powered locos on Carlisle but by no means all. I did find a better (quieter) alternative in the last motor/gearbox produced by Geoff Brewin for Comet, this is in one of the Princesses and is the equal of anything, a Maxon motor on an excellent gearbox. I don’t know whether this is still available though. Geoff couldn’t stand the whine if Portescaps either.

 

Comet  list a motor/gearbox MGB1, which has a coreless motor with first stage brass bevel gears and two more stages of steel spur gears. Would that be it?

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

We have a large proportion of Portescap powered locos on Carlisle but by no means all. I did find a better (quieter) alternative in the last motor/gearbox produced by Geoff Brewin for Comet, this is in one of the Princesses and is the equal of anything, a Maxon motor on an excellent gearbox. I don’t know whether this is still available though. Geoff couldn’t stand the whine if Portescaps either.

Thanks Mike,

 

Geoff put the Maxon motor/gearbox combination into a DUKE OF GLOUCESTER he made, which was then donated to be sold for CRUK (thanks Phil). 

 

I've never found anything more-powerful, quiet or smooth. When I tested it on Little Bytham, the rake of coaches (30+) became unstable on the end curves, and I was never able to find out exactly what it would pull.

 

I was told (and I might have got this wrong) that the final cost would not make the drive viable. Whether it became available after Comet was sold, I don't know, but it was an incredible piece of kit! 

[Michael Edge]

3 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

Comet  list a motor/gearbox MGB1, which has a coreless motor with first stage brass bevel gears and two more stages of steel spur gears. Would that be it?

That sounds like the one.

 

[Barry Ten]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Mike,

 

Geoff put the Maxon motor/gearbox combination into a DUKE OF GLOUCESTER he made, which was then donated to be sold for CRUK (thanks Phil). 

 

I've never found anything more-powerful, quiet or smooth. When I tested it on Little Bytham, the rake of coaches (30+) became unstable on the end curves, and I was never able to find out exactly what it would pull.

 

And here's the beast in action:

 

 

Sorry I can't muster 30 coaches, but within the constraints of my layout, it's clearly got more than enough grunt.

 

One of the small jobs I've yet to do is sort out a slight slope to the running plate (it's higher at the cab end than the smokebox end) but it's not too evident here, I think. And at some point it'll get a decoder.

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

 

And here's the beast in action:

 

 

Sorry I can't muster 30 coaches, but within the constraints of my layout, it's clearly got more than enough grunt.

 

One of the small jobs I've yet to do is sort out a slight slope to the running plate (it's higher at the cab end than the smokebox end) but it's not too evident here, I think. And at some point it'll get a decoder.

Thanks Al,

 

Of course; I'd forgotten you'd bought it. 

 

And, there are still lots of things here which you've bought as well..............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Barry O]

Nice to see my weathered A4 (Silver Lunk) on Grantham as part of your Hornby photos Tony. I got a lot of grief daring to weather an A4!   

 

Baz

[Tony Wright]

4 minutes ago, Barry O said:

Nice to see my weathered A4 (Silver Lunk) on Grantham as part of your Hornby photos Tony. I got a lot of grief daring to weather an A4!   

 

Baz

Good morning Baz,

 

I'm pleased to be able to use it. It might be employed as a still in a video which Chris Walsh is editing, celebrating Hornby's latest 'Big Four' collection; which comprises of an LNER A1, LMS Fowler 2-6-4T, GWR Castle and Southern King Arthur (I've had the A1 and the Castle to review/test). 

 

What I've done is to find images of Hornby locos representative of the period 1923-'48; these include............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A reasonable selection? 

 

Some, of course, are no more than examples from the 'Railroad' range.

 

Anyway, see next post to take the 'story' further..................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

[Tony Wright]

Following on from my previous post............

 

The idea is to show what can be done to Hornby's locos when some 'modelling' is employed............

 

 

Another view of Baz Oliver's A4.

 

 

Graham Nicholas' A1.

 

 

Jonathan Wealleans' A1.

 

 

Jesse Sim's A1.

 

 

And his A4.

 

 

My D16/3.

 

 

And my P2.

 

 

And someone's WC. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Following on from recent posts about DUKE OF GLOUCESTER.............

 

 

This could be the one mentioned earlier.

 

Hornby certainly produced one (actually two).

 

 

Including one in the 'Railroad' range (left) as well as the detailed one (right)......

 

The real thing was very active a few years ago...............

 

 

Passing Little Bytham in 2005.

 

 

 

And, at Victoria in early December 2006 (one for the 'global-warming' brigade!). 

 

 

As well as just prior to Christmas 2006, on the ECML Down fast at Careby. 

 

 

 

 

[john new]

11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Following on from recent posts about DUKE OF GLOUCESTER.............

 

 

This could be the one mentioned earlier.

 

Hornby certainly produced one (actually two).

 

 

Including one in the 'Railroad' range (left) as well as the detailed one (right)......

 

The real thing was very active a few years ago...............

 

 

Passing Little Bytham in 2005.

 

 

 

And, at Victoria in early December 2006 (one for the 'global-warming' brigade!). 

 

 

As well as just prior to Christmas 2006, on the ECML Down fast at Careby. 

 

 

 

 

From something I recently read on line the process of getting the loco back to running order isn't far off completion. (Can't remember where read hence no link) 

[MikeParkin65]

3 minutes ago, john new said:

From something I recently read on line the process of getting the loco back to running order isn't far off completion. (Can't remember where read hence no link) 

Its certainly steamed in the past week  - National Preservation website is the sort of equivalent to RMweb for news and random armchair speculation :)

[Hollar]

I've just bought a very nice-looking WD on eBay, powered by a Portescap and described as a runner.   It arrived very well packed and in really good visual condition.

 

However, on the test track it refused to move and gave off an unpleasant screaming sound.  With a lot of prodding it moved, was controllable and smooth, but still very screamy.  When I tried to switch direction it stopped dead and only moved when given a smart tap in the right direction.  It doesn't move at all on my rolling road, just sits there complaining, so I can't try to run it in.

 

Does anyone have any suggestion that doesn't involve sending it back and getting a refund?  It looks great but I'm not looking for an ornament.

 

Tony