Wright writes.....

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

 

"The Password is Courage"

 

https://railwaymoviedatabase.com/the-password-is-courage/

They couldn't have made much less effort to make the railways look German, really.

 

Of course this film is famous amongst enthusiasts for creating the persistent rumour about 42325's fate:

"This scene was again filmed at Scratchwood Sidings, Mill Hill, and after the clear up operation was completed, No.42325 was buried where it lay, with urban legend suggesting it remains deep beneath the hard shoulder of the southbound M1 at Scratchwood services!" 

 

I think I read that this story has been debunked with records of the loco's disposal, but perhaps one day the Services will be being rebuilt and ground-penetrating radar will be put to use......

[Tony Wright]

Someone has made an enquiry about the Castle I have for sale, wanting to see the other side.

 

So far I've had no further response, so just in case anyone else is interested, here it is..............

 

 

It should be evident that the models have seen some use, and all have been weathered. That use means they all run well (with its Portescap this one is a lovely runner).

 

I have no idea what a current Hornby RTR Castle costs (apart from the limited edition Big Four offering). Does anyone? 

 

I've recently seen Portescaps for sale at anything up to £75.00 (though I've not paid that) and Markits drivers are now near to £7.00 each (maybe over), plus the cost of axles/crankpins. Then there are the bogie/tender wheels, plus the cost of the SEF kit. Which means that I'm asking less for this complete model than the cost of its components. 

 

With the prices asked for current RTR locos (over £200.00 RRP for Hornby's little 78XXX!) then it seems to me that good running (and that's the most-important thing) kit-built locos can be very good value indeed. 

 

I'm quite happy to take further pictures of the locos I have for sale should anyone be genuinely interested.

 

For instance........

 

 

Two expressions of interest were made for the two panniers, requesting to see more. 

 

These obviously clinched the deal (I'll be posting them today, and I still haven't dusted them!). 

 

 

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

I wouldn't have believed it, unless I'd seen it with my own eyes, but when I googled 'Hornby Castle', the computer came up with this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornby_Castle,_Lancashire

 

[Captain Kernow]

A more 'refined' search came up with this - https://uk.Hornby.com/products/gwr-castle-class-4-6-0-4073-caerphilly-castle-era-3-r30328 - £208.99 (or is this the 'Big Four' example?).

 

 

[cctransuk]

Salvation for Tony - according to a very recent thread by AYmod, Squires will, in due course, be manufacturing and supplying the entire DJH range.

 

CJI.

[john new]

Having spent the last couple of days trying, and not yet 100% successfully, to get the wheel sets and motor/gearbox combo needed to complete the 2nd hand started DJH B16 kit I bought a couple of years ago it doesn’t surprise me that kit building is seen as problematic. Even if the kits are available the vitals to complete them may not be.

 

So far -

• motor/gearbox as recommended by DJH = yes. Ordered from them. It is an old kit so hoping the new iteration of the stated type will still fit.
• correct size set of Markits driving wheels. Yes, sourced 2nd hand via EBay but not 100% accurate as 2 spokes short (18 not 20). The stockists of Markits wheels I have found are all giving the right diameter as out of stock.
• axles, fibre washers, crank pins and Romford/Markits screwdriver. Yes and new.
• Front bogie wheel sets - yes to diameter and new.
• Tender wheel sets needing extended axles. Plenty in correct size with flush to hub axles. Pinpoint extending out of stock everywhere I have looked. Nearest I have found so far are a Bachmann spares set that are 0.2mm bigger than recommended. The kit says 16mm whereas my translation of the prototype’s 3ft 9” would be 15mm so putting in 16.2mm wheels might make it ride a bit high.

I think onwards and upwards is the motto but the hill seems rather a steep climb!

[cctransuk]

10 minutes ago, john new said:

Having spent the last couple of days trying, and not yet 100% successfully, to get the wheel sets and motor/gearbox combo needed to complete the 2nd hand started DJH B16 kit I bought a couple of years ago it doesn’t surprise me that kit building is seen as problematic. Even if the kits are available the vitals to complete them may not be.

 

So far -

• motor/gearbox as recommended by DJH = yes. Ordered from them. It is an old kit so hoping the new iteration of the stated type will still fit.
• correct size set of Markits driving wheels. Yes, sourced 2nd hand via EBay but not 100% accurate as 2 spokes short (18 not 20). The stockists of Markits wheels I have found are all giving the right diameter as out of stock.
• axles, fibre washers, crank pins and Romford/Markits screwdriver. Yes and new.
• Front bogie wheel sets - yes to diameter and new.
• Tender wheel sets needing extended axles. Plenty in correct size with flush to hub axles. Pinpoint extending out of stock everywhere I have looked. Nearest I have found so far are a Bachmann spares set that are 0.2mm bigger than recommended. The kit says 16mm whereas my translation of the prototype’s 3ft 9” would be 15mm so putting in 16.2mm wheels might make it ride a bit high.

I think onwards and upwards is the motto but the hill seems rather a steep climb!

 

The apparent non-availability of so many Markits' products is certainly making me glad that I bought-in the necessary 'bits & bobs' when buying kits in the past.

 

One can only hope that, for the future of loco kit-building, there is a radical change in the production / marketing of this essential range.

 

CJI.

 

 

[gr.king]

20 hours ago, john new said:

Having spent the last couple of days trying, and not yet 100% successfully, to get the wheel sets and motor/gearbox combo needed to complete the 2nd hand started DJH B16 kit I bought a couple of years ago it doesn’t surprise me that kit building is seen as problematic. Even if the kits are available the vitals to complete them may not be.

 

So far -

• motor/gearbox as recommended by DJH = yes. Ordered from them. It is an old kit so hoping the new iteration of the stated type will still fit.
• correct size set of Markits driving wheels. Yes, sourced 2nd hand via EBay but not 100% accurate as 2 spokes short (18 not 20). The stockists of Markits wheels I have found are all giving the right diameter as out of stock.
• axles, fibre washers, crank pins and Romford/Markits screwdriver. Yes and new.
• Front bogie wheel sets - yes to diameter and new.
• Tender wheel sets needing extended axles. Plenty in correct size with flush to hub axles. Pinpoint extending out of stock everywhere I have looked. Nearest I have found so far are a Bachmann spares set that are 0.2mm bigger than recommended. The kit says 16mm whereas my translation of the prototype’s 3ft 9” would be 15mm so putting in 16.2mm wheels might make it ride a bit high.

I think onwards and upwards is the motto but the hill seems rather a steep climb!

You may be able to solve the wheel size and ride height problem for the tender, eliminate the need for extended axles, and get a better result by looking at the possibility of building an inside-bearing inner frame. You could do that from scratch, but fold-up etched frames are for instance available as one alternative. Trimming to fit and creation of a means of detachable fitting will need to be addressed.

Edited February 17 by gr.king

[t-b-g]

5 minutes ago, gr.king said:

You may be able to solve the wheel size and ride height problem for the tender, eliminate the need for extended axles, and get a better result by looking at the possibility of building an inside-bearing inner frame. You could do that from scratch, but fold-up etched frames are for instance available as one alternative. Trimming to fit and creation of a means of detachable fitting will need top be addressed.

 

That would be my solution and I would normally do that even if the correct wheels and axles were available. Making a tender inside frame is a good introduction to making your own mechanisms and isn't difficult.

 

I gave up trying to get tender wheels square and straight in cast whitemetal outside frames some time ago. An inside frame gives you somewhere to mount brakes and tender pick ups if you would like to have them too. It also allows a bit of side play to be introduced on the centre axle, plus a bit of compensation or suspension for those who like such things.

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

A more 'refined' search came up with this - https://uk.Hornby.com/products/gwr-castle-class-4-6-0-4073-caerphilly-castle-era-3-r30328 - £208.99 (or is this the 'Big Four' example?).

 

 

Thanks Captain,

 

No, CAERPHILLY CASTLE is not the premium 'Big Four' one. So, nearly £40.00 more for an RTR Castle, though I'm sure it'll be discounted somewhere....................

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[john new]

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

That would be my solution and I would normally do that even if the correct wheels and axles were available. Making a tender inside frame is a good introduction to making your own mechanisms and isn't difficult.

 

I gave up trying to get tender wheels square and straight in cast whitemetal outside frames some time ago. An inside frame gives you somewhere to mount brakes and tender pick ups if you would like to have them too. It also allows a bit of side play to be introduced on the centre axle, plus a bit of compensation or suspension for those who like such things.

Are the flush hub wheel sets for tenders a push on stiff or spline fit? The sub-chassis idea makes sense. Just thinking it through before ordering wheels. A very quick look on line at brass kit images suggests you have to have the wheels off the axles.

 

More to research on the steep learning curve.

 

Edited February 16 by john new
Missed a bit out.

[31A]

3 minutes ago, john new said:

Are the flush hub wheel sets for tenders a push on stiff or spline fit? The sub-chassis idea makes sense. Just thinking it through before ordering wheels. A very quick look on line at brass kit images suggests you have to have the wheels off the axles.

 

More to research on the steep learning curve.

 

 

The axles of Romford tender (and bogie) wheels are smooth and the wheels themselves are a tight push fit, so they can be pushed off without damage and are tight enough fit to hold themselves in place when you push them back on.

 

Some tender sub chassis kits have the axles running in inverted U-shaped slots so that you don't need to take the wheels off the axles, and the axles are retained in by wire retainers across the mouth of the U.  The Comet kits cater for this by tabs with holes in, which you bend at right angles to the frame and then pass the wire retainers through.

 

Here is a Comet kit in a Bachmann LNER tender; I have added wire springs to the middle axle:

 

[john new]

9 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

The axles of Romford tender (and bogie) wheels are smooth and the wheels themselves are a tight push fit, so they can be pushed off without damage and are tight enough fit to hold themselves in place when you push them back on.

 

Some tender sub chassis kits have the axles running in inverted U-shaped slots so that you don't need to take the wheels off the axles, and the axles are retained in by wire retainers across the mouth of the U.  The Comet kits cater for this by tabs with holes in, which you bend at right angles to the frame and then pass the wire retainers through.

 

Here is a Comet kit in a Bachmann LNER tender; I have added wire springs to the middle axle:

 

Thanks for this. Big help.

[t-b-g]

29 minutes ago, john new said:

Are the flush hub wheel sets for tenders a push on stiff or spline fit? The sub-chassis idea makes sense. Just thinking it through before ordering wheels. A very quick look on line at brass kit images suggests you have to have the wheels off the axles.

 

More to research on the steep learning curve.

 

 

31A has answered that fairly comprehensively. It is one area where push on wheels like Gibsons are very easy to use. No quartering problems for one thing, (unless you are building a GNR Steam tender, before some wag points it out). They arrive with the wheels off the axles anyway and it is easy to mount one wheel on the axle, put it through the frames, sort out sideplay by adding washers as necessary (as little as possible front and back and a tiny amount in the centre) and adding the second wheel. 

[Methuselah]

A question to the expert hive mind here ;- Some years ago Fulgurex produced some RTR brass GWR Castles and Kings (& Prairies...?).

 

Were they any good scale-wise...? What was the mechanism like...? Smooth...? Reliable.....? TIA.

[Michael Edge]

Fulgurex produced Castles and Kings, they were reasonably accurate although from memory the firebox shape wasn't quite right. They ran reasonably well by the standards of the time but might not seem so now.

The small Prairies were by a Korean firm, they also produced 57xx Panniers. These did run very well they had very nice cast brass wheels and can motors, I still have three of these and another Prairie which I intended to convert to a 44xx.

Seen here on Heculaneum Dock, I painted 5517 and it was expertly weathered by the late Paul Fletcher.

One of the Panniers, also seen posing in Liverpool.

 

[Northmoor]

On 12/02/2024 at 22:40, LNER4479 said:

Neither Tony nor I claim much expertise where it comes to GWR types!

Now maybe it's what you're most familiar with but I've always thought GWR types are easy to identify by number alone, unlike locos from the other Big Four companies post-Nationalisation, for which numbering seems much more random.

 

The GWR tended to use repeating sequences, so if there were more than 100 built (or a later batch would take it over that threshold), they tended to increment the class by 1000, e.g.:

• x0xx were Castles (starting at 40xx), except that they gave the Kings 60xx and had to start again with 70xx for the last batch of Castles
• x1xx were Large Prairies (starting at 31xx)
• x3xx were Moguls (starting at 43xx)
• x7xx (starting at 57xx) were the main Pannier class, although there were so many built the GWR/BR had to exploit a lot of unused numbers
• x9xx were Halls (49xx/59xx), then became Modified Halls (69xx/79xx)

Obviously names are the biggest giveaway to class names - Hall, Grange, Manor, Castle, King - but there is the odd exception name to confuse the unfamiliar.  The Kings were named in reverse chronological order - which no doubt helped the GWR's train spotters with their history lessons - starting with 6000 being named after the reigning monarch at the time.  Of course then King Edward VIII came along and upset everything after they'd named one after him.....

 

Or perhaps you meant expertise in kits of GWR types and I've just rambled on for no reason?

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

 

The axles of Romford tender (and bogie) wheels are smooth and the wheels themselves are a tight push fit, so they can be pushed off without damage and are tight enough fit to hold themselves in place when you push them back on.

 

Some tender sub chassis kits have the axles running in inverted U-shaped slots so that you don't need to take the wheels off the axles, and the axles are retained in by wire retainers across the mouth of the U.  The Comet kits cater for this by tabs with holes in, which you bend at right angles to the frame and then pass the wire retainers through.

 

Here is a Comet kit in a Bachmann LNER tender; I have added wire springs to the middle axle:

 

An excellent example Steve,

 

One thing possibly of note is the difference between Romford/Markits carrying wheels and Gibson's. Though both are push-fit (the Romford/Markits ones supplied already on their axles), the Gibson ones don't have a separate plastic bush where the axle is inserted (because the wheels, other than the tyres, are plastic), meaning that the backs of the tyres can rub on the subframe, causing interference and shorting. Thus, in my experience, spacing washers are always required, something not always necessary on Romford/Markits bogie/pony/tender wheels.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[thegreenhowards]

9 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I have no idea what a current Hornby RTR Castle costs (apart from the limited edition Big Four offering). Does anyone? 

 

I've recently seen Portescaps for sale at anything up to £75.00 (though I've not paid that) and Markits drivers are now near to £7.00 each (maybe over), plus the cost of axles/crankpins. Then there are the bogie/tender wheels, plus the cost of the SEF kit. Which means that I'm asking less for this complete model than the cost of its components. 

 

With the prices asked for current RTR locos (over £200.00 RRP for Hornby's little 78XXX!) then it seems to me that good running (and that's the most-important thing) kit-built locos can be very good value indeed. 

 

Tony,

 

I’ve no idea what a RTR Castle costs….nor do I want to know! But I do know that a new Bachmann V2 is around the £200 mark. Sadly kits don’t go for so much in my experience. I recently tried to sell a Nucast V2 on eBay, beautifully built (not by me) and running well with a Portescap. I even included a video to prove that it ran well. But no interest at £120. Sadly I think unbuilt kits go for more!  

 

I’m sure you manage to sell nicely built locos for more, partly because they have the ‘Sir’ seal of approval from a running perspective. But in my experience the market for second hand kit built locos is quite limited unless there is no RTR equivalent. I keep bidding on DJH A1/1s and losing!

 

I hope I’m wrong but that’s my experience.

 

Andy

 

 

[Tony Wright]

7 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Now maybe it's what you're most familiar with but I've always thought GWR types are easy to identify by number alone, unlike locos from the other Big Four companies post-Nationalisation, for which numbering seems much more random.

 

The GWR tended to use repeating sequences, so if there were more than 100 built (or a later batch would take it over that threshold), they tended to increment the class by 1000, e.g.:

• x0xx were Castles (starting at 40xx), except that they gave the Kings 60xx and had to start again with 70xx for the last batch of Castles
• x1xx were Large Prairies (starting at 31xx)
• x3xx were Moguls (starting at 43xx)
• x7xx (starting at 57xx) were the main Pannier class, although there were so many built the GWR/BR had to exploit a lot of unused numbers
• x9xx were Halls (49xx/59xx), then became Modified Halls (69xx/79xx)

Obviously names are the biggest giveaway to class names - Hall, Grange, Manor, Castle, King - but there is the odd exception name to confuse the unfamiliar.  The Kings were named in reverse chronological order - which no doubt helped the GWR's train spotters with their history lessons - starting with 6000 being named after the reigning monarch at the time.  Of course then King Edward VIII came along and upset everything after they'd named one after him.....

 

Or perhaps you meant expertise in kits of GWR types and I've just rambled on for no reason?

 

Thanks Rob,

 

Though weren't the modified Halls 6959 Class, 6900 to 6958 being 4900 Class? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[lezz01]

The problem with kit built locos on eBay is that many sellers value them too high. Many of them look great but don't run worth a damn, then there's the problem of wheels, people like me who model in EM or P4 have to add the cost of a new set of wheels into the price as well. There are some kits up on eBay right now that have P4 wheels and no bids. Lots of buyers won't touch part built kits as the white metal ones are often glued and many people don't realise that to take them apart all you need to do is pop them into a saucepan of boiling water for 10 minuets or so to reduce them to component parts. There is a Falcon 1F on eBay that's been up there for around 3 years now mainly because the vendor wants £95 for it and once the Bachmann one was released the bottom fell out of the market. Another example is a Craftsman 1P kit that the vendor wants £250 for, well I have 4 in stock to build and I didn't pay £150 for all 4 of them. You can get some real bargains on eBay but you have to know which end is up if you don't want to get taken for a ride. Why would anyone buy a kit built 3F for £150 when you buy two Bachmann ones for the same price.

Regards Lez.    

Edited February 17 by lezz01

[LNER4479]

27 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

 

Or perhaps you meant expertise in kits of GWR types and I've just rambled on for no reason?

 

Correct. But thanks, anyway(!)

 

Besides, I thought identification of different GWR loco types was merely about how far, far away they were ... 😆

[Tony Wright]

5 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I’ve no idea what a RTR Castle costs….nor do I want to know! But I do know that a new Bachmann V2 is around the £200 mark. Sadly kits don’t go for so much in my experience. I recently tried to sell a Nucast V2 on eBay, beautifully built (not by me) and running well with a Portescap. I even included a video to prove that it ran well. But no interest at £120. Sadly I think unbuilt kits go for more!  

 

I’m sure you manage to sell nicely built locos for more, partly because they have the ‘Sir’ seal of approval from a running perspective. But in my experience the market for second hand kit built locos is quite limited unless there is no RTR equivalent. I keep bidding on DJH A1/1s and losing!

 

I hope I’m wrong but that’s my experience.

 

Andy

 

 

Good evening Andy,

 

You're not wrong at all. In fact, I think the situation is getting worse and it's going to be much harder for me to sell (very good) kit-built locos, even with my 'seal of approval'. 

 

You've mentioned before how many kit-built locos you've acquired don't run well. Granted, if not much has been paid, then, perhaps, not much is expected, and (in my own case, especially) it can be quite (or even very) satisfying to take a dud and get it running really sweetly; once the pick-ups have been sorted out, any tight spots eradicated and bits of the motion which have dropped off have been fitted back on properly. Those and sorting out the weird ways of attaching bogies/ponies and ensuring that a loco-to-tender coupling is long enough to negotiate curves more generous than those measured in miles! 

 

The irony is with the WR locos I'm offering for sale, all run well and need little, if any, attention, other than a clean and an oil. Despite my assurances that I'm happy with their performances, they're selling as fast as the tortoises' 100 metres 'sprint'! 

 

Because of this 'perception' that kit-built locos don't run so well, does this mean that RTR is far more-popular, despite being far more expensive? But, do all the RTR locos run that well? Testing on Little Bytham of late, Hornby's Latest RAILROAD MALLARD stripped its gears after five circuits, Hornby's latest 78XXX lost part of its motion after running at a crawl and the latest Fowler 2-6-4T's bogie derailed all over the place when under a train's load, so much so at one point that it snapped off one of the footsteps I'd fixed in place as the loco took one road at the point and the bogie took the other! A friend brought along a Bachmann A1 and wasn't surprised when all it did was polish the rails when attempting to start a 12-car express (50/50 RTR/metal kit-built). Naturally, and smugly, I substituted one of my DJH equivalents, and away she went! 

 

Yes, I've shown videos of RTR locos in action of late, and they run well, but several have needed a tweak before they've performed properly. Pity, then, the purchaser who doesn't have a clue how to deal with any running issues. 

 

I have to say that it's 'alarming' to find that essentials such as Markits wheels are getting very difficult to obtain (though I've never found that to be the case). Yes, 'I'm all right, Jack' - I have dozens of sets already in the boxes of the kits they're going under, but with all that's happening, the future for kit-building (and selling kit-built) locos looks rather bleak. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[MikeParkin65]

25 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I’ve no idea what a RTR Castle costs….nor do I want to know! But I do know that a new Bachmann V2 is around the £200 mark. Sadly kits don’t go for so much in my experience. I recently tried to sell a Nucast V2 on eBay, beautifully built (not by me) and running well with a Portescap. I even included a video to prove that it ran well. But no interest at £120. Sadly I think unbuilt kits go for more!  

 

I’m sure you manage to sell nicely built locos for more, partly because they have the ‘Sir’ seal of approval from a running perspective. But in my experience the market for second hand kit built locos is quite limited unless there is no RTR equivalent. I keep bidding on DJH A1/1s and losing!

 

I hope I’m wrong but that’s my experience.

 

Andy

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

The problem with kit built locos on eBay is that many sellers value them too high. Many of them look great but don't run worth a damn, then there's the problem of wheels, people like me who model in EM or P4 have to add the cost of a new set of wheels into the price as well. There are some kits up on eBay right now that have P4 wheels and no bids. Lots of buyers won't touch part built kits as the white metal ones are often glued and many people don't realise that to take them apart all you need to do is pop them into a saucepan of boiling water for 10 minuets or so to reduce them to component parts. There is a Falcon 1F on eBay that's been up there for around 3 years now mainly because the vendor wants £95 for it and once the Bachmann one was released the bottom fell out of the market. Another example is a Craftsman 1P kit that the vendor wants £250 for, well I have 4 in stock to build and I didn't pay £150 for all 4 of them. You can get some real bargains on eBay but you have to know which end is up if you don't want to get taken for a ride. Why would anyone but a kit built 3F for £150 when you buy two Backman ones for the same price.

Regards Lez.    

A lot of potential buyers (including me!) will be put off by not knowing how simple a kit built loco will be to convert to DCC.  Like it or not DCC is I think the default control system for those who came back to the hobby in the past 20 years or so.  Regarding the V2 the latest Bachmann version can be had for a lot less than £200, in fact a very prominent BRM advertiser is currently offering them for less than £140.  I see some beautiful looking kit built models for sale but I’m afraid the market for them is very limited and the original cost of the components isn’t a justification for the higher prices except to a very few ‘in the know’ as per this thread - and some here wouldn’t pay those prices as they are seeking to hunt underpriced bargains on the aforementioned eBay!

[Chuffer Davies]

1 hour ago, Methuselah said:

A question to the expert hive mind here ;- Some years ago Fulgurex produced some RTR brass GWR Castles and Kings (& Prairies...?).

 

Were they any good scale-wise...? What was the mechanism like...? Smooth...? Reliable.....? TIA.

Hi,

my understanding is that the castle had some dimensional inaccuracies but the King was a better model.  The King’s chassis was rather crude but with a replacement chassis from the likes of Comet (or in my own case Malcolm Mitchell) the model is transformed.  

Fulgerex Original:

And with Mitchell Chassis - painted by Ian Rathbone.

Regards,

Frank