Wright writes.....

[rowanj]

Modellers may be interested in this photo of a Gresley triplet passing heading south at Little Benton in a period between 1958-62, I'm not sure what diagram this is, but there is a bit of a mystery as to what it was doing  here. The coaches look ex- works, but where would such work be undertaken, It has been suggested they were detatched at Tyne Commision Quay from a Boat Train, but that seems unlkely unless they were marshalled at an end, rather than within the train, The V1 is a Heaton loco, so the triplet hasnt come far, Either way, it's an unusual photo.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, rowanj said:

Modellers may be interested in this photo of a Gresley triplet passing heading south at Little Benton in a period between 1958-62, I'm not sure what diagram this is, but there is a bit of a mystery as to what it was doing  here. The coaches look ex- works, but where would such work be undertaken, It has been suggested they were detatched at Tyne Commision Quay from a Boat Train, but that seems unlkely unless they were marshalled at an end, rather than within the train, The V1 is a Heaton loco, so the triplet hasnt come far, Either way, it's an unusual photo.

Good evening John,

 

What a superb picture. 

 

It appears to be one of the earlier triplet types (turnbuckle trussing), and is either the same diagram or very similar to the one produced by Comet as an etched kit or Ian Kirk in plastic. 

 

 

This is the Comet kit I built.

 

 

And this is a much-detailed Kirk triplet built by our elder son Tom when he was still a student (it now belongs to Geoff West). 

 

Your prototype shot appears to show recessed end doors, but I can't recall whether that was a feature of the 1924-built triplets or the 1928-built ones (for service in the Flying Scotsman - it's definitely not a 1938 triplet diagram). Your picture also show the opposite side from the models (the corridor side of the Kitchen Car), proving that the windows were white (folk have claimed - and built models that way - that the corridor side of the Kitchen Car had clear glass). 

 

Why it's heading south as an empty stock rake is a puzzle. If it were heading north it would be easier to explain - just shopped at York and on its way to Newcastle for service in Kings Cross expresses (it's also the 'wrong way round'; the First Class would normally be at the south end). Most of the Kings Cross-Newcastle expresses of the period had triplet catering - from four sources; the earlier diagrams, the singular ex-Silver Jubilee triplet or the ex-1938 Flying Scotsman pair.

 

A guess, then. It has not long been overhauled/repainted at York, but an issue has occurred and it's heading back to York to be remedied. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Earlier this week, I showed shots of A1s used on expresses during Bytham's monthly running sessions. 

 

Last Monday, I'd put on four A4s hauling southbound expresses (three were on northbound services), which is more than normal (at the expense of A3s I'm afraid - to be rectified next month, for only one was run!). 

 

Here is that quartet of southbound A4s.............

 

 

 

 

60017 (SE Finecast/Wright/Haynes) on the Up Yorkshire Pullman; this is usually A1-hauled. 

 

Some of the cars in this train feature in the video clips I've posted today.

 

 

60024 (Pro-Scale/Peabody/Wright/Rathbone) on the Up Elizabethan (its regular job).

 

 

 

60026 (SE Finecast/Crownline/Wright/Rathbone) on the morning fast Newcastle.

 

This lower shot illustrates perfectly (in my view) the concept of a layout loco/layout train running on a (large) layout (Bytham is five feet wide at this point). Loco kit-built and a third of the rake kit-built.

 

 

 

 

60032 (SE Finecast/the late Geoff Brewin/Wright), the last single chimney A4, heading the Up afternoon Talisman (the last train in the sequence). 

 

Great fun was had running all these on Monday - at high speed! 

 

 

Edited March 15 by Tony Wright
to add something

[john new]

6 hours ago, john new said:

A question about a white metal kit. At last week's Missenden weekend I picked up a couple of boxes of assorted white-metal parts to practice soldering on - the bonus finding in amongst them a mostly complete part finished truck kit (2/3rds roughly). I have progressed it, including fabricating a few bits to replace the missing front axle and adding a radiator protection bar. My white-metal soldering fear now overcome, with a truck model in due course as the bonus. Plenty of extras still to make and fit. My query though - what is it?

 

At first I simply assumed (always a mistake!) it was the common model of the AEC Monarch (Springside?) but the current version of that is IIRC plastic as is the ex-Airfix AEC Matador. I found a (the) radiator loose in the box and from the location pimples I think it is the right one: that isn't an AEC rad' though and it is just readable on the casting as Foden. I don't recall a Foden kit, nor does Google find one. From looking at photos the prototype might be a Foden R. Has anyone any ideas as to what it is (prototype) and for my curiosity what kit it began as?

This image found via a Goole search  is what made me think it is a model of the Foden R type. Managed to find it again. This one also seems similar.https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1265287

 

Edited March 15 by john new
Added the second link.

[Steamport Southport]

10 hours ago, john new said:

A question about a white metal kit. At last week's Missenden weekend I picked up a couple of boxes of assorted white-metal parts to practice soldering on - the bonus finding in amongst them a mostly complete part finished truck kit (2/3rds roughly). I have progressed it, including fabricating a few bits to replace the missing front axle and adding a radiator protection bar. My white-metal soldering fear now overcome, with a truck model in due course as the bonus. Plenty of extras still to make and fit. My query though - what is it?

 

At first I simply assumed (always a mistake!) it was the common model of the AEC Monarch (Springside?) but the current version of that is IIRC plastic as is the ex-Airfix AEC Matador. I found a (the) radiator loose in the box and from the location pimples I think it is the right one: that isn't an AEC rad' though and it is just readable on the casting as Foden. I don't recall a Foden kit, nor does Google find one. From looking at photos the prototype might be a Foden R. Has anyone any ideas as to what it is (prototype) and for my curiosity what kit it began as?

 

The plastic kit for the Monarch was made by Cooper Craft (now Cambrian). 

 

I have a feeling that might be by Langley.

 

 

Jason

[379]

14 hours ago, john new said:

A question about a white metal kit. At last week's Missenden weekend I picked up a couple of boxes of assorted white-metal parts to practice soldering on - the bonus finding in amongst them a mostly complete part finished truck kit (2/3rds roughly). I have progressed it, including fabricating a few bits to replace the missing front axle and adding a radiator protection bar. My white-metal soldering fear now overcome, with a truck model in due course as the bonus. Plenty of extras still to make and fit. My query though - what is it?

 

At first I simply assumed (always a mistake!) it was the common model of the AEC Monarch (Springside?) but the current version of that is IIRC plastic as is the ex-Airfix AEC Matador. I found a (the) radiator loose in the box and from the location pimples I think it is the right one: that isn't an AEC rad' though and it is just readable on the casting as Foden. I don't recall a Foden kit, nor does Google find one. From looking at photos the prototype might be a Foden R. Has anyone any ideas as to what it is (prototype) and for my curiosity what kit it began as?

Hello John

I suspect your kit may be one of these.

(Advert in the Sept 1977 Model Railway Constructor)

 

Graham

Edited March 16 by 379
Missing word

[jwealleans]

17 hours ago, rowanj said:

It has been suggested they were detatched at Tyne Commision Quay from a Boat Train,

 

I have seen that picture before and the accompanying caption then stated that it had been taken out of a TCQ boat special to be turned ready to go back to London.   As Sir has already pointed out, it's the wrong way round at this point.

 

 

Edited March 16 by jwealleans

[rowanj]

19 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

I have seen that picture before and the accompanying captio nthen stated that it had been taken out of a TCQ boat special to be turned ready to go back to London.   As Sir has already pointed out, it's the wrong way round at this point.

 

 

Yes, but it's a bit of a mystery how it ended up at Little Benton, which is NORTH of Newcastle, or how it could have been turned. All I can think of is that it came up from London and entered Central via the High Level Bridge before going on to TCQ. I suppose the alternative is that it was a standalone consist to provide dining for the great and good at a launch. The V1 is certainly nice and shiny too

. Either way, it's a good excuse to run something different on my railway....

Edited March 16 by rowanj

[379]

1 hour ago, 379 said:

Hello John

I suspect your kit may be one of these.

(Advert in the Sept 1977 Model Railway Constructor)

 

Graham

 

Hello John

 

Further to my last post I've just checked the Dec 1977 issue of the MRC Model Road Vehicles supplement and it has a review of the Highway Models Foden R type kit, including a picture of the lorry the kit was based on (see attached).

 

Graham 

 

Edited March 16 by 379
Wrong photo

[john new]

21 minutes ago, 379 said:

 

Hello John

 

Further to my last post I've just checked the Dec 1977 issue of the MRC Model Road Vehicles supplement and it has a review of the Highway Models Foden R type kit, including a picture of the lorry the kit was based on (see attached).

 

Graham 

 

Thank you. Excellent search work, much appreciated.  Sadly the missing parts include the glazing mentioned and those protective side bars. Now to track down more images of the prototype and then fabricate some of those extras.. 

[mullie]

Last night I found the videos on detailing rtr coaches, in my case how to fit etched sides to the slab sided Hornby models. I have two to do and the videos will make it so much easier. These are an excellent series too, delivered in your unique style.

 

 

 

I will watch the rest later. I did watch them late at night with a glass of whiskey or 'Dad's patent cold repellent' as it is known in our house, and yes I did sleep well.

 

Thanks Tony

Edited March 16 by mullie

[APOLLO]

2 hours ago, rowanj said:

 Either way, it's a good excuse to run something different on my railway....

 

And that comment opens a whole new subject - running strange, unusual but prototypical trains (long or perhaps preferably short). Mix of stock / loco power etc. Anyone run them ? - I do on occasions. One offs though (as per prototype).

 

Here's one, on the high mine branch where it should not be - a test run !!

 

 

Loco is a Rock Island (ex Union Pacific) F Unit as per prototype. The Coach (Combine) is a presumed hand built ebay bargain as is the Caboose / Flanger. An odd assortment but a short train that, to me, "looks right".

 

Brit15

Edited March 16 by APOLLO

[379]

1 hour ago, john new said:

Thank you. Excellent search work, much appreciated.  Sadly the missing parts include the glazing mentioned and those protective side bars. Now to track down more images of the prototype and then fabricate some of those extras.. 

 

Hello John

 

You're welcome, I'm happy to help out.

 

There is a preserved example (as mentioned in the MRC review), reg no BU 7876 which is owned by a logistics company. There are details about it on their website;

https://www.csellis.co.uk/about-us/heritage-fleet/her-majesty-1934-foden-r-type

 

A Google or Flickr search of the reg no should also provide plenty of photos.

 

With regard to the missing glazing, this should be fairly easy to replicate as it will all be flat glass on a lorry of that age.

As for the missing side bars they look like two vertical metal supports with three horizontal wooden bars, so could be replicated with metal strip. However I personally don't believe they were commonplace in those days and were probably either a choice of the original owner (CWS) or specific to the lorry's task of transporting sacks of flour. The preserved lorry doesn't have them now so if it were me I wouldn't bother with them unless I was modelling the CWS Flour mill lorry.

 

Graham 

 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, rowanj said:

Yes, but it's a bit of a mystery how it ended up at Little Benton, which is NORTH of Newcastle, or how it could have been turned. All I can think of is that it came up from London and entered Central via the High Level Bridge before going on to TCQ. I suppose the alternative is that it was a standalone consist to provide dining for the great and good at a launch. The V1 is certainly nice and shiny too

. Either way, it's a good excuse to run something different on my railway....

Good morning John,

 

How stupid of me to not realise that Little Benton is north of Newcastle (which rather makes my guess wonky!). 

 

If it had previously been carrying passengers (which it isn't in the picture - it's empty stock), it could not be a stand-alone consist because there is no guard's compartment in a catering triplet, nor any lavatories. It would have been attached to a gangwayed brake vehicle with lavatories at least (in the picture, is the guard accommodated in an ex-LMS BG?). 

 

So, a real puzzle. Could it have conveyed guests to an event in Berwick, or Edinburgh, and is now returning south? Either way, it's just ex-works (no more than a few days, judging by the pristine state of the roofs).

 

One point I should have clarified regarding the white windows on the corridor side of the Kitchen Car. This was a feature in later LNER days and BR days. Some of the earlier triplets had clear glass in the corridor-side windows of the Kitchen Car when built. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[t-b-g]

20 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

And that comment opens a whole new subject - running strange, unusual but prototypical trains (long or perhaps preferably short). Mix of stock / loco power etc. Anyone run them ? - I do on occasions. One offs though (as per prototype).

 

Brit15

 

On Buckingham, we have a Director's Saloon, which would normally be seen once in a blue moon. In the timetable it appears daily. Peter Denny told me, with a twinkle in his eye, that one of the Directors was having an "illicit relationship" with a barmaid at the Swan at Leighton Buzzard, which explains the daily visits and a stay at LB of a few hours before the return trip.

 

On another matter, which has been discussed many times before, that of shunting vs. running trains through, I took this snap of the marshalling yard at Grandborough Junction yesterday, during our weekly running session.

 

From the left, we have a down stopping passenger, calling at Platform 3 on it's way to Buckingham. Then we have the daily London to Buckingham goods, which has been reformed, having dropped off wagons for Grandborough and Leighton Buzzard and had some wagons for Buckingham from the other two stations added, using the coloured dots on the solebars as a guide. The loco will shortly come off shed and take it to Buckingham. In the next siding are six coal empties. Three would have come from LB, two from GJ goods yard plus an empty loco coal wagon from the loco depot. A train from Buckingham will collect these and head "up north" to return later with a loaded coal train, which will be distributed around the layout. The next siding has the wagons dropped from the goods train for GJ, which would be worked to GJ goods yard by the pilot between trains on the main line and the last one has the wagons dropped for LB. The pilot has been very busy doing all this while a succession of passenger trains either stop at GJ or rattle through non stop.

 

That, to me, is what operating a layout is all about. To maintain my interest, I need a variety of types of train and movement. Repeating the same thing time and time again bores me very quickly.

[Andy Hayter]

7 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

In the next siding are six coal empties. Three would have come from LB, two from GJ goods yard plus an empty loco coal wagon from the loco depot. A train from Buckingham will collect these and head "up north" to return later with a loaded coal train, which will be distributed around the layout. 

 

That, to me, is what operating a layout is all about. To maintain my interest, I need a variety of types of train and movement. Repeating the same thing time and time again bores me very quickly.

 

A question if I may.  I like the sequence, all of which makes operational sense, but how do you justify getting 6 empty wagons back into that siding for the next repeat of the sequence?

 

I have the same dilemma with regards full wagons delivering to various spots and somehow departing later still full of coal.  

[t-b-g]

32 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

A question if I may.  I like the sequence, all of which makes operational sense, but how do you justify getting 6 empty wagons back into that siding for the next repeat of the sequence?

 

I have the same dilemma with regards full wagons delivering to various spots and somehow departing later still full of coal.  

 

Each coal wagon has two bodies that fit on the same underframe. At the start of the sequence, empty coal wagons are scattered all over the layout. Between then and when the coal empties run, the wagons are collected together by the pilots at Buckingham and Grandborough and the train, starting at Buckingham, collects the empties from Grandborough and heads "north" to the fiddle yard. Once there, the bodies are swapped for the full loads. They then work back and get split up. At the end of the sequence, one of the tasks to carry out before the next day is to swap the full bodies for the empty one. So the body swaps are not done on scene during the normal running. There would be a further complication in that some wagons would go to Leighton Buzzard but that still isn't connected to the rest of the layout yet, so 6 wagons remain at Grandborough, rather than 3 there and 3 at Leighton Buzzard.

[PMP]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

I have the same dilemma with regards full wagons delivering to various spots and somehow departing later still full of coal.  

I use plastic moulded loads, they have steel glued underneath and lift out with a magnet. They are about 1mm narrower all round to ease getting them in and out and top is covered with real coal for realism. Not ideal but pragmatic. I’m working on real loading for a washery, with the reality of it being a pita to unload them, and the sheer volume of material required to load each 21t wagon.

[Andy Hayter]

I have given up on visual loading/unloading.  It never looks realistic because you cannot scale acceleration under gravity.  The same issue as for those who try to use real water to represent a stream flowing.

[PMP]

1 minute ago, Andy Hayter said:

I have given up on visual loading/unloading.  It never looks realistic because you cannot scale acceleration under gravity.  The same issue as for those who try to use real water to represent a stream flowing.

It can flow in terms of ’aggregates’ but with water I tend to agree with you. 

[Izzy]

Over the years I’ve had two layouts that featured open wagon loading of aggregates, iron ore and sand. This was via hoppers. Not authentic in the main but achievable in a small scale model. These were nice aspects to have in respect of train traffic and children of all ages used to enjoy seeing them working at the odd few exhibitions the layouts went to. It worked well because the wagons were loaded on scene and emptied off, the reverse of most goods workings on layouts, so there wasn’t the conundrum of how they went from full to empty on scene.

 

Bob

[Willie Whizz]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

I have given up on visual loading/unloading.  It never looks realistic because you cannot scale acceleration under gravity.  The same issue as for those who try to use real water to represent a stream flowing.

There’s a layout with logging scenes exhibited from time to time called ‘Karolina Falls’ which still isn’t “quite” there, but is the best I’ve ever seen with real water. 

[t-b-g]

I have rarely been convinced by attempts to have working loading and unloading facilities. Most hopper systems involve lots of noise and great clouds of dust, which you just don't get on models. Plus, you often have a scene where the figures are in static poses, when in real life they would be moving around. The best we can really do is to create a scene that looks realistic when photographed. When it is a moving 3D scene, we need lots of imagination to complete the gaps in the movement. The loading, unloading and movement of people in my imagination works just fine. Making one part of the action really happen without the other parts doesn't convince me, although I can be impressed by the work done to make it happen.

[APOLLO]

Buckingham is a superb layout I have been a fan of since the 1960's. I'm glad it still exists.

 

I still have the Railway Modeller "Denny Special" in which his gas works always intrigued me - perhaps persuading me to join "The North Western Gas Board" as an apprentice technician at Wigan gas works back in 1969. Peter's method of making gas holders got me into bother with my mum, laminating / gluing layers of cardboard round two cooking pans of differing diameter !!!!

 

Other layouts that fascinated me in the 60's were Frank Dyers "Borchester" and David Jenkinsons S&C layouts, often mentioned on here.

 

Here is another short interesting passenger train on my O gauge layout.

Lead Loco is an Atlas F9 painted by me

B unit is a home made unit from two A units, still awaiting final painting / lettering

 

 

The Baggage car is a Williams cast resin body, painted & finished by me.

 

 

The green combine is a La Belle wood kit, nicely built and finished, an ebay bargain.

 

 

Finally the last coach I bought as an unfinished home made shell from Norman Wissendens shop many years ago. It was glazed and painted but needed a roof, interior, bogies and couplings. The roof is a solid piece of wood, the observation end needs a bit more sanding / filling. Finished in Southern Pacific "Daylight" livery, just needs lettering. Interior seats etc from a Bachman Underground Ernie building !!!

 

 

The prototype had a flatish roof.

 

Such short, mixed consist trains were common up to the 60's or so all over the USA. 

 

Brit15

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

I have rarely been convinced by attempts to have working loading and unloading facilities. Most hopper systems involve lots of noise and great clouds of dust, which you just don't get on models. Plus, you often have a scene where the figures are in static poses, when in real life they would be moving around. The best we can really do is to create a scene that looks realistic when photographed. When it is a moving 3D scene, we need lots of imagination to complete the gaps in the movement. The loading, unloading and movement of people in my imagination works just fine. Making one part of the action really happen without the other parts doesn't convince me, although I can be impressed by the work done to make it happen.

Good afternoon Tony,

 

Do you remember Ynysibil Fach (my spelling is probably miles out!), a South Wales colliery layout in O Gauge built by the Gibbons brothers?

 

At one show at Ipswich, short of operators one day, elder son Tom was press-ganged into operating its working coal tipplers. By the day's end, he looked exactly like my late uncle Percy just coming off shift (he was a miner at Dinnington pit). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.