Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

30 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Diesel era modellers have benefitted greatly from the high quality of RTR over the past 20 or so years, not only in terms of accuracy but also power, ever since centrally mounted motors driving both bogies became standard. However, there have been a few Turkeys. Bachmann has had four goes at the 37 and only the most recent one is really right, although attempts 2 and 3 are acceptable to me with some modification such that I have felt no need to upgrade to either the newest Bachmann model or the Accurascale one. Attempt one was woeful. We have recently had new 47s from both Bachmann and Heljan. Given they are meant to represent the same thing, compare these two ends:

 

IMG_0590am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

There have been several goes at Westerns but none is perfect. Dapol came closest but was let down by the headcodes. 

 

There are other examples too. 

Which is which, please, Robert?

 

The one on the right looks to be a larger scale.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

16 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Which is which, please, Robert?

 

The one on the right looks to be a larger scale.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Might be the camera angle. Heljan on left and Bachmann on right. 

[MJI]

1 hour ago, robertcwp said:

Might be the camera angle. Heljan on left and Bachmann on right. 

Weird they look different but both look like 47s.

 

I just use second hand Lima as cheap and i need quite a few

[Tony Wright]

Thanks for all the recent comments on RTR/kit-built stuff - a topic which seems never far away from Wws.

 

Obviously, my personal interest is the ER/ECML in later steam days, and it crossed my mind as to which locomotives might be needed for which there is no RTR offering. 

 

Here's a selection................

 

 

Theories abound (though I've heard nothing concrete) that GREAT NORTHERN might be on some RTR radar, though I'd be astonished if it ever came to pass (the words of someone who, in 2010, had a book published where he claimed no RTR manufacturer would ever touch a Thompson Pacific!). 

 

Frankly (and selfishly?), I really don't care, since I've had this one (Crownline/Wright/Rathbone) for almost 30 years.

 

Out of interest, the DMU in the background is a modified/detailed/weathered Bachmann item.

 

 

Time was when the only way to get such a model was kit- or scratch-build. Tony Geary chose the former route, building this MTK Cravens. You're a (much) better man than I, Tony!

 

 

The other Thompson Pacific unlikely to ever appear RTR is the A2/1, here represented by my Jamieson hand-cut kit example from 1976 (all my own work). 

 

Nu-Cast and Crownline/PDK produced kits for the type (I've built both), but I've only ever seen one other Jamieson A2/1........

 

 

Which I'm in the process of resurrecting. 

 

K2s tend to rate quite highly on RTR wish-lists I'm told. However, for the moment the only option is to build............

 

 

From a Nu-Cast kit (Wright/Haynes). 

 

 

Or from London Road (Wright/Rathbone). 

 

Or scratch-build..................

 

 

Which is what Ray Lightfoot did. 

 

 

I have a couple of Nu-Cast K2s for the top bit of LB, this one representing earlier BR days (my build, my painting and weathered by Geoff Haynes). 

 

 

As for the K5, I think a kit for one from DMR was proposed. This one is from many years ago (Wright/Wills/scratch). 

 

Another loco high on RTR wish-lists is the J6. I have several, including.............

 

 

This Ivatt example (London Road/Wright).

 

 

And this Gresley one (Nu-Cast/Wilson/Wright). 

 

Is there an RTR J6 on any manufacturer's horizon? 

 

Lesser-known 'J's are highly-unlikely to ever be considered RTR; locos like the following pair...........

 

 

A J3 (London Road/Wright). 

 

 

Or this other J3 (K's/scratch/Wright/Haynes).

 

As for smaller 'D's?

 

 

Like this D2 example (London Road/Wright/Haynes).

 

 

Or this D3 (London Road/Wright/Haynes).

 

Who knows? 

 

Though a Robinson ex-GC 2-8-0 has been available RTR for many years.........

 

 

For the likes of an O4/7, it's kit-building (Little Engines/Wright/Haynes). 

 

 

And an O4/8 (K's/Bachmann/scratch/Wright).

 

As for a K4?

 

 

Though certainly not ER or ECML, I might have thought a K4 a possibility for RTR. This one represents the preserved example (scratch/Wright). I think Dave Alexander once made a kit for the type. 

 

All the above examples are OO, of course. I don't feel qualified enough to comment on other scales.

 

Tomorrow I'll photograph some RTR/kit comparisons.............

 

[grahame]

3 hours ago, robertcwp said:

 We have recently had new 47s from both Bachmann and Heljan. Given they are meant to represent the same thing, compare these two ends:

 

IMG_0590am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

 

There does seem a number of minor differences, but, to me, the most obvious is that the headcode box appears deeper on the left example and the horizontal handrail seems lower.

[robertcwp]

24 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

There does seem a number of minor differences, but, to me, the most obvious is that the headcode box appears deeper on the left example and the horizontal handrail seems lower.

Yes, it's the headcode that is the most obvious difference. It's hard to make an exact comparison as the Bachmann one has the domino replacement for the headcode. The real things looked like this:

 

D1957_WiganNW by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

47454_APR-74 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

47251_Totnes_c1980 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Edited May 3 by robertcwp
Add a bit.

[APOLLO]

 

If I remember rightle D1957 was amongst one of the first Blue from birth Brush type 4's. Note the tender of the (more than likeley) Black 5 station pilot lurking in platform 3 at Wigan NW.  Around1967 ?

 

Brush 4's, headcodes, Wigan, what about this gem !! An experiment so I belive.

Springs Branch 6 August 1969, I started work at Wigan Gas Works the following week !!

 

 

 

The other end. Summat went wrong !!!

 

 

Brit15

 

[maico]

5 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Diesel era modellers have benefitted greatly from the high quality of RTR over the past 20 or so years, not only in terms of accuracy but also power, ever since centrally mounted motors driving both bogies became standard. However, there have been a few Turkeys. Bachmann has had four goes at the 37 and only the most recent one is really right, although attempts 2 and 3 are acceptable to me with some modification such that I have felt no need to upgrade to either the newest Bachmann model or the Accurascale one. Attempt one was woeful. We have recently had new 47s from both Bachmann and Heljan. Given they are meant to represent the same thing, compare these two ends:

 

IMG_0590am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

There have been several goes at Westerns but none is perfect. Dapol came closest but was let down by the headcodes. 

 

There are other examples too. 

 

Er...🤪

Edited May 3 by maico

[Northmoor]

2 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Yes, it's the headcode that is the most obvious difference. It's hard to make an exact comparison as the Bachmann one has the domino replacement for the headcode. The real things looked like this:

 

D1957_WiganNW by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

47454_APR-74 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

47251_Totnes_c1980 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

As the Flickr caption confirms for the last image, the first two carriages are from the XP64 set.  Now that's some stock we almost certainly won't see in RTR.

[jjb1970]

8 hours ago, MJI said:

 

 

I just use second hand Lima as cheap and i need quite a few

 

Lima did an excellent job with their 47. It's basic and quite generic but they nailed the shape and 'look' of the 47. It's still a great starting point for a project to detail and modify and can result in a superb model. And the Hornby releases have an excellent motor bogie which offers smooth and quiet performance. OK it's a motor bogie in an era where body mounted motors which drive to all wheels is normal, but it's a very good motor bogie.

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, Northmoor said:

As the Flickr caption confirms for the last image, the first two carriages are from the XP64 set.  Now that's some stock we almost certainly won't see in RTR.

Good morning Rob,

 

Yes, the XP64 set................

 

 

Dave Lewis of Southern Pride produced kits for it almost 30 years ago. His made-up set ran on Stoke Summit (here hauled by a modified/detailed Lima Brush Type 4). 

 

We were very lucky at Wolverhampton MRC having a 'pet' kit-manufacturer as part of the team. It enabled us to create trains way beyond the imagination (at the time) of RTR manufacturers.

 

 

Trains such as 'The Elizabethan', made up of the post-War Thompson PV vehicles (with two Mk.1s making up the Aberdeen portion). At much the same, Bachmann produced a presentation Elizabethan set in a polished wooden box. Despite claims from the then MD that 'much research has taken place to make it accurate', none of the cars was appropriate for the 'Lizzie'. 

 

So far, no RTR manufacturer has produced Thompson PV cars. 

 

Other Southern Pride kits created which first appeared on Stoke Summit included..........

 

 

 

The Mk.1 Pullman cars for use in the 'Master Cutler' and 'Tees-Tyne Pullman'. 

 

In the case of the former, modified Hornby cars were also employed.

 

 

As they were with the latter, but only the brake cars this time.

 

The motive power is a modified Lima EE Type 4 and a SE Finecast A4 respectively.

 

Of course, now there are the Bachmann Mk.1 Pullmans RTR and the later Hornby Pullmans............

 

 

But it's a pity the colours don't match (which they did on Stoke's Pullmans). 

 

 

Dave Lewis even produced the Mk.1 Pullmans in reversed blue/grey (the Deltic is a much-altered Lima product). 

 

Other rolling stock types now available RTR include...........

 

 

 

The TPOs (the two leading cars are altered RTR Mk.1 BGs and the motive power for both trains is modified Lima). 

 

 

And the 'Anglo Scottish Car Carrier', here made-up from Dave's own Southern Pride kits - including the four Mk.1 passenger-carrying cars (the A4 is Wills/scratch/Wright/Rathbone). 

 

Heljan now makes the carriers RTR...............

 

 

 

 

And very nice they are, too - motive power respectively SE Finecast/scratch/Wright/Haynes, modified Bachmann/Davey and Crownline/Wright/Rathbone. The passenger-carrying cars are modified Bachmann and modified Hornby products. 

 

Who would have thought, all those years ago, that so much would now be available RTR? However, both the XP64 and Elizabethan stock remain for the kit-builders.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

[Richard_A]

23 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Rob,

 

Yes, the XP64 set................

 

 

Dave Lewis of Southern Pride produced kits for it almost 30 years ago. His made-up set ran on Stoke Summit (here hauled by a modified/detailed Lima Brush Type 4). 

 

We were very lucky at Wolverhampton MRC having a 'pet' kit-manufacturer as part of the team. It enabled us to create trains way beyond the imagination (at the time) of RTR manufacturers.

 

 

Trains such as 'The Elizabethan', made up of the post-War Thompson PV vehicles (with two Mk.1s making up the Aberdeen portion). At much the same, Bachmann produced a presentation Elizabethan set in a polished wooden box. Despite claims from the then MD that 'much research has taken place to make it accurate', none of the cars was appropriate for the 'Lizzie'. 

 

So far, no RTR manufacturer has produced Thompson PV cars. 

 

Other Southern Pride kits created which first appeared on Stoke Summit included..........

 

 

 

The Mk.1 Pullman cars for use in the 'Master Cutler' and 'Tees-Tyne Pullman'. 

 

In the case of the former, modified Hornby cars were also employed.

 

 

As they were with the latter, but only the brake cars this time.

 

The motive power is a modified Lima EE Type 4 and a SE Finecast A4 respectively.

 

Of course, now there are the Bachmann Mk.1 Pullmans RTR and the later Hornby Pullmans............

 

 

But it's a pity the colours don't match (which they did on Stoke's Pullmans). 

 

 

Dave Lewis even produced the Mk.1 Pullmans in reversed blue/grey (the Deltic is a much-altered Lima product). 

 

Other rolling stock types now available RTR include...........

 

 

 

The TPOs (the two leading cars are altered RTR Mk.1 BGs and the motive power for both trains is modified Lima). 

 

 

And the 'Anglo Scottish Car Carrier', here made-up from Dave's own Southern Pride kits - including the four Mk.1 passenger-carrying cars (the A4 is Wills/scratch/Wright/Rathbone). 

 

Heljan now makes the carriers RTR...............

 

 

 

 

And very nice they are, too - motive power respectively SE Finecast/scratch/Wright/Haynes, modified Bachmann/Davey and Crownline/Wright/Rathbone. The passenger-carrying cars are modified Bachmann and modified Hornby products. 

 

Who would have thought, all those years ago, that so much would now be available RTR? However, both the XP64 and Elizabethan stock remain for the kit-builders.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

On 01/05/2024 at 16:43, LNER4479 said:

 😆

I managed to get the last of Dave's xp64 kits, it'll be a long time before I pluck up courage to start them, I hope someone can take his range on when he finally retires as I have wanted to buy some of the mk2 kits and I have missed out. 

 

For years, I'd look at his website and think his kits were expensive, now I realise they are good value, and I have had to pay a premium for unbuilt tpo kits via ebay, for the ones he no longer produces. 

[Bernard Lamb]

14 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

In the 19th century, Königsberg was less important as a timber-exporting port than Memel. As far as I can work out, it was more important as a grain-exporting port - I suppose that this may have simply been a reflection of the hinterland of the two ports. 

 

Libau, to the north of both these, was the most northerly port on the eastern Baltic coast to be ice-free throughout the year.

 

 

It was rather later than that when I was involved. Late 1950s and early 1960s.

Remember when model buildings were made using computer chads for bricks?

They probably contained Kaliningrad wood pulp.

Looking up a brief history, the pulp mill ran from 1905 and after an up and down life finally closed in around 2001.

I don't know if it was carried by rail in the UK. I only came across it using the canal, up to the infamous winter of 1963, after which it went over to road transport.

Bernard

 

[BMacdermott]

Hello Tony

 

You mentioned the K2 a few posts above...

 

Within The 00 Wishlist Poll, the class was Middle Polling in 2013 and again in 2014. Since then, it has steadily climbed into High Polling. In 2022 - the last Poll to run before we run again near Christmas - the class was not far from The Top 50.

 

The J6 must surely come to market soon, but poor old 60113 has always been at the low end of the results! Can anyone explain that?

 

We first listed the XP64 stock in 2013 where it was very low polling. We deleted it for a few years but, since relisting in 2018, it has remained very Low Polling.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

 

 

[gr.king]

The current trend would seem to indicate that if an RTR K2 ever does appear, it will be gratuitously detailed, fragile and staggeringly expensive. It will certainly make the incredibly simple resin kits I offered a few years ago seem ultra-cheap by comparison. In its most basic version, little more than a case of sticking the cab onto the one-piece boiler-running plate casting, and dropping that onto a cropped Bachmann V3 split-frame chassis (or, as some have demonstrated, a K3 chassis or even a Stanier mogul unit), fitting some little bits then painting it black. Of course, even that much (little) was too much trouble/difficulty for some. No prospect of a further batch of those kits any time in the near future I'm afraid, as mould renewal would be needed, and the last few of the first batch hung around for a couple of years before selling. Besides that, I'm rather too busy building a portable layout of my own at present, with a fixed date for completion, after which I have a lot more of my own stock-building programme to complete.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, BMacdermott said:

but poor old 60113 has always been at the low end of the results! Can anyone explain that?

I feel you made an effective start: 'poor, old' never ranks very high in interest, add 'and mutilated' and that completes the sorry story.

[MJI]

Another advantage of Lima is that I can do modeling.

 

Hand rails,  fans, respray, and i get the one i want.

 

Need a 40 as well now.

 

I think i need 3 more 47s.

[MJI]

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, Richard_A said:

I managed to get the last of Dave's xp64 kits, it'll be a long time before I pluck up courage to start them, I hope someone can take his range on when he finally retires as I have wanted to buy some of the mk2 kits and I have missed out. 

 

For years, I'd look at his website and think his kits were expensive, now I realise they are good value, and I have had to pay a premium for unbuilt tpo kits via ebay, for the ones he no longer produces. 

 

I do hope so. Even if only the etched sides as quite a lot of them aren't available elsewhere and I doubt many would be on the radar of the RTR boys.

 

 

Jason

[John Tomlinson]

2 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I do hope so. Even if only the etched sides as quite a lot of them aren't available elsewhere and I doubt many would be on the radar of the RTR boys.

 

 

Jason

 

By coincidence I was looking at his website yesterday, which shows the etched sides for the XP64 coaches as still in stock.

 

He does advise confirming by email that the stock record reflects reality, before commiting to purchase, but if someone is interested it might be worth a whirl now.

 

John.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I feel you made an effective start: 'poor, old' never ranks very high in interest, add 'and mutilated' and that completes the sorry story.

 

Interesting loco though and different to the others. I would certainly have a model of 60113 before even contemplating buying/building 60103.

 

But there is a PDK kit available so I won't get involved in wishlisting for one as there are a lot of other things I would prefer.

 

 

 

Jason

[APOLLO]

More interesting Brush 4 pictures. Once as common as muck. Much missed (yes a few survive).

 

D1962 at Crewe, again reversed head codes. 22 June 1969.

 

 

Crewe works same day, boiler test.

 

 

 

Pay your two bob or so at Gresty Rd entrance, Quick safety briefing - Don't jump over pits, don't step on the rails, touch nowt and follow the guy with the flat cap !! We young 'uns were trustworthy back then - another age.

 

 

Lots of variety too.

 

 

 

Crewe north line up

 

 

 

Journey out & return was interesting, Wigan - Crewe via Chester and reverse around the triangle !!

 

 

D4xx waits for the ex LNWR signal to drop !!

 

 

Brit15

 

 

[Mark Laidlay]

Me, a year ago today, it was the highlight of my 6 week UK tour.  

Edited May 4 by Mark Laidlay

[MarkC]

On 03/05/2024 at 21:23, Tony Wright said:

 

 

As for a K4?

 

 

Though certainly not ER or ECML, I might have thought a K4 a possibility for RTR. This one represents the preserved example (scratch/Wright). I think Dave Alexander once made a kit for the type. 

 

 

Dave (RIP) certainly did produce a K4 kit - indeed I have the very last one that he sold (he mentioned that as he handed it over in exchange for a fistful of beer vouchers at his last Newcastle show) in my roundtuit pile - and it's getting close to the top... No doubt a RTR version will appear just after I complete it; it wouldn't be the first time that's happened to me 🤔

 

As I've said before, I'll use (suitably weathered) RTR until I build or obtain a kit or scratchbuilt replacement, but when I look at the gorgeous Bachmann Class 108 DMU that trundles through Scalby, you do have to ask yourself how to top it. Some RTR is just stunning...

 

Mark

Edited May 4 by MarkC

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, APOLLO said:

More interesting Brush 4 pictures. Once as common as muck. Much missed (yes a few survive).

 

D1962 at Crewe, again reversed head codes. 22 June 1969.

 

 

Crewe works same day, boiler test.

 

 

 

Pay your two bob or so at Gresty Rd entrance, Quick safety briefing - Don't jump over pits, don't step on the rails, touch nowt and follow the guy with the flat cap !! We young 'uns were trustworthy back then - another age.

 

 

Lots of variety too.

 

 

 

Crewe north line up

 

 

 

Journey out & return was interesting, Wigan - Crewe via Chester and reverse around the triangle !!

 

 

D4xx waits for the ex LNWR signal to drop !!

 

 

Brit15

 

 

Thanks for these APOLLO,

 

The two pictures at Chester are particularly interesting to me. 

 

In the shot by Chester No. 6 'box, beneath the church spire to the centre right horizon is Victoria Road School, where, a year before your pictures were taken I completed a few week's teaching practice in charge of an ESN class (ESN, by the way, stood for 'educationally sub-normal'! And the members were - such a description would be incredible today). My classroom overlooked the deep cutting between Chester's two tunnels.

 

Also in the picture is the roof of Chester Northgate's loco shed. 

 

In the lower picture, if one were to walk 400 or so yards from the right hand end of the bridge, along Westminster Road, one would pass by infant/junior school. The headmaster allowed us to trainspot at lunchtimes (imagine that today!).

 

The L&NWR lower-quadrant semaphores at Chester were the last of their type in operation in the realm.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Another 100 pages on Wws. Gosh!

Edited May 4 by Tony Wright
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