Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, Barry Ten said:

I'm not sure if this has been picked up on, apologies if it has, but Modelmaster is bringing out some completely new loco kits in 2020. Granted they'll be resin bodied, which won't be to everyone's taste, but they'll have fully etched chassis so perhaps of interest?

 

https://modelmaster.uk/876-modelmaster-resin-bodied-loco-kits-Dapol-kits-accessories

Thanks Al,

 

It would seem they have exceptionally-low prices. They should go well. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Porcy Mane]

6 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

They should go well. 

 

S'pose it depend on what motor/gearbox combo you choose.   

[Tony Wright]

Just now, Porcy Mane said:

 

S'pose it depend on what motor/gearbox combo you choose.   

True, but I really meant they should sell well.

 

I must be clearer with my writing in future.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Barry Ten]

I thought the prices were low as well - unbelievably low - but it turns out that those are deposits, with the total cost being

more in line with what you would expect.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Because the Ratio 4 wheelers are still the best approximation of GW Dean era 4-wheelers available if you want Dean era 4 wheelers; I do for a miner's workman's.  And the freelance 4-wheelers are a couple years away and more expensive.

 

I was being sarcastic....

 

 

 

Jason

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

I thought the prices were low as well - unbelievably low - but it turns out that those are deposits, with the total cost being

more in line with what you would expect.

Thanks Al,

 

Perhaps they won't sell quite as well after all. I'll wait to see how good the 3D-printing is, and the bodies will still need finishing off, won't they? Has anyone yet 3D-printed separate handrails? 

 

Anyway, on to more personal modelling. 

 

My contribution to the freight stock on LB is dismally-low. I'm lucky to have the work of others, of course - mostly kit-built, but with a considerable number of modified RTR items. However, I thought I'd try and redress the balance (in a small way) by building plastic wagon/van kits as part of my demonstrating at shows. 

 

I bought the kit below at Wigan, a fortnight ago, and started it on the Sunday...................

 

 

In between my writing book reviews for BRM today, it's now complete. It's the one on the right, a Parkside ex-SR BY van. It stands next to the Hornby equivalent (this one weathered by Rob Davey). Why would I want (or need?) to build a kit for the same thing, given that the RTR one is excellent? 

 

As mentioned, it's a useful demonstrating item. And, in that vein, it's an excellent starting point for those who want to get into actually making things for themselves. Finally, I wanted an example in earlier BR bright red (which I don't think Hornby does). I admit it came out a bit too bright to start with (Vauxhall Flame Red rattle can over red primer), but weathering has toned it down to a satisfactory level; I think. 

 

It's not as good as the RTR example overall (haven't we been here before?) but so what? It's uniquely 'mine', and that is important. 

 

I have a question. The Southern Region green one has body-colour ends, but I'm sure the red/maroon-painted vans had black - up until spray-painting became common in the '60s. Should the ends be black? Or red?

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited October 17, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo error

[Steamport Southport]

Black ends for crimson. According to the Gould - Southern Railway Passenger Vans book most received red from 1949 but they started to repaint then green from 1956.

 

Modelmasters do a set of transfers for them.

 

Numbers were 431 - 449, 651 - 800, 931 - 980. Avoid 400 to 430 as they were stove fitted. Whilst some in the 900 number series were labelled for newspaper traffic.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[johnarcher]

42 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Al,

 

Perhaps they won't sell quite as well after all. I'll wait to see how good the 3D-printing is, and the bodies will still need finishing off, won't they? Has anyone yet 3D-printed separate handrails? 

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Actually Tony if they are resin, which I think they are, (printed or cast?) they should be a lot better than the usual Shapeways stuff.

I've not had either myself, but I've seen close-up photos of resin-printed stuff Sparkshot is doing now and it looks pretty good.

There's a narrow-gauge maker (whose name I can't recall) who's doing a printed loco body in this high quality, supplied with detail bits in metal (cast and etched), the result is quite effective to my eye.    https://ngtrains.com/shop/product/townsend-hook-body-kit/

Maybe that sort of thing could be a useful toe-dipping stage for those hesitating before the plunge into a full kit, a bit like the old basic bodyline cast kits on RTR chassis used to be?

I don't know if the modelmaster ones are that sort of thing, but I think it might be a useful product to have around.

[grahame]

22 minutes ago, johnarcher said:

Actually Tony if they are resin, which I think they are, (printed or cast?) they should be a lot better than the usual Shapeways stuff.

 

 

My understanding, and it could be wrong, is that most 3D plastic printing is with an acrylic resin material. Shapeways tends to have stratification ridges because they use layer deposition printing whereas the more modern stereolithography (SLA) 3D printing that others use results in a smoother finish.

 

Cast two part mix resin results in the smoothest finish assuming the master and the mould made from it are smooth.

[TheSignalEngineer]

11 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Grahame

 

They do on my train set, I am happy to run my plastic card models, kits , old part detailed RTR conversions and new super detailed RTR together. If I want a class 31 on the front of the 8.28 from Grimsby then it is the first one off the depot (out the Brush 2 box) that hauls it irrespective of it origin.

I like your style. A bit like playing football in the park. 

For my own part, as a teenager in the Hornby Dublo years I built a GWR 0-6-0 from a Kitmaster City of Truro boiler, some styrene sheet and a lot of filler. It sat on a Gaiety Pannier chassis, didn't really look like a 2251 but the main thing was it ran and could pull a few wagons.

My wagon building efforts started with Airfix Minerals, two of which have been modified and fitted with modern wheels still put in an appearance on the long coal train over 50 years on. There are usually about 10 unstarted kits waiting on the shelf. 

At three score plus ten I did my first overlay with Comet sides, you're never too old to try something new.

RTR has given me things I couldn't do but there is a lot of enjoyment to be had from seeing your own efforts setting off down the track.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

Black ends for crimson. According to the Gould - Southern Railway Passenger Vans book most received red from 1949 but they started to repaint then green from 1956.

 

Modelmasters do a set of transfers for them.

 

Numbers were 431 - 449, 651 - 800, 931 - 980. Avoid 400 to 430 as they were stove fitted. Whilst some in the 900 number series were labelled for newspaper traffic.

 

 

 

 

Jason

Thanks Jason,

 

The latest Parkside kits (now under the Peco umbrella) come complete with suitable waterslide transfers from Modelmasters. I just used these. No 'guard' transfers were supplied, though. I used some from an HMRS BR sheet.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Theakerr]

For many Tuesdays over probably the last 12 years, a friend and I have watched U-Tube Model Railway videos and videos of Model Railway shows.   Living in the GWN, it is the only way we can 'get' to the shows.   Over this time period, there has been a very significant improvement in the scenic quality of many layouts, technically, historically and artistically.   In our pseudo analysis there is a direct correlation with the improvement, variety and variability of RTR locomotives and rolling stock that have been weathered and detailed.  So I suggest that the Hobby has lost (is loosing) a skill set on the one hand moving one step backwards but on the other hand has gained another very significant skill set moving about 10 steps forwards.   Railway Modellers in general, now have the ability and TIME to model location specific areas without having to build the area appropriate rolling stock and the resultant time savings has produced many layouts that are more or less historically accurate and either depict a real place, a 'representation' of a real place or a 'flavour' of the appropriate real thing.

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

If Tony will hopefully excuse my late arrival regarding this subject my near broadside photo hopefully shows the position of the metal casting more usefully and both of these views (including the flash gun being used before fully recharging) seem to indicate that the metal casting is carried down below footplate level although it is unclear if that would be the case in production when the motor will drive on the leading coupled axle.  The designer sounded well aware of the weight distribution situation in a 4-4-0 and has taken that into account in his design.

 

 

Hmm, I hope you're right Mike.

[PMP]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

(Snip)

Why would I want (or need?) to build a kit for the same thing, given that the RTR one is excellent? 

(snip)

As mentioned, it's a useful demonstrating item.
Regards,

 

Tony.  

If there’s a good RTR version of something I’m building, I will frequently take the RTR route for expediency. There are still items that can happily co-exist together, I still make and run Airfix/Dapol 16t minerals and Bachmann’s together, and similar with other wagons. Both kit and RTR will be worked on though giving a more consistent appearance.

On CCT’s I had a Parkside version underway when Hornby’s version came out, and I made the decision to carry on with the kit. Partly because the kit I had was for the ply sided version, and to help match it into the mix of RTR items I added a representative brake gear from scraps. This was a case of the RTR item making me ‘step up’ the kit built wagon, and it looks ok in the fleet mix I have.

 

[Craigw]

16 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

They still exist, but why bother building a set of Ratio GWR four wheelers if you can buy a freelance carriage in the pre grouping livery you want?

 

 

 

Jason

 

Because you have a modicum of concern about accuracy?

 

I simply cannot see any logical reason for getting the latest  RTR model (like the forthcoming D class) and then sticking freelance stock behind it.  To me it flies in the face of any talk about accuracy and desire to recreate the real thing. 

 

Craig W 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Craigw

[johnarcher]

2 hours ago, grahame said:

 

My understanding, and it could be wrong, is that most 3D plastic printing is with an acrylic resin material. Shapeways tends to have stratification ridges because they use layer deposition printing whereas the more modern stereolithography (SLA) 3D printing that others use results in a smoother finish.

 

Cast two part mix resin results in the smoothest finish assuming the master and the mould made from it are smooth.

I could certainly be wrong too, my knowledge of these new technologies is very limited indeed.

I was referring to the resin prints on a Photon machine that Knuckles of this parish (alias Sparkshot) introduced in this thread -

They seemed of very good finish compared to the Shapeways, especially the basic WSF, and cheaper too.

[Northmoor]

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I'd also submit that people who don't even open the box are not part of the hobby; collecting is a different hobby altogether, one which I can't comprehend either.  They don't even know if the model is complete or if it works!  

I would admit to a little Schadenfreude if months later they opened the box to find it wasn't the version it said on the label.....

 

The sort of people who buy models terrified of devaluing them, I wouldn't even describe as collectors; they are speculators.  Collectors are proud of their collections and admire them.  Speculators in the latest model - you know the type, the new edition Hornby XYZ that within a week of launch is being sold on eBay as "un-used, only taken out of the box for photography" and priced at £30 more than someone like Hattons or Rails (where they probably bought them) - are no more modellers than the person who buys an E-type Jag and pays to store it in a climate controlled bubble, watching it's value increase, is a classic car driver.

[Willie Whizz]

15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

...

 

Speaking as one who's photographed thousands of models from scores and scores of collections, I cannot understand the mentality of those who won't even open a box because it devalues what's inside! I've known some who won't even take the tissue paper packing off a Bachmann box. At one show, one guy I saw rejected the Bachmann model he was about to buy because the stall proprietor very kindly tore off the tissue paper so that he could see what was inside! What has that to do with 'modelling'? 

 

The two 'extremes' so to speak between those who make just about everything and those who collect are not mutually-exclusive, by the way. I've known some who make the most-exquisite models on one day, then collect vintage tinplate on the next. However, those who are just 'collectors' probably couldn't give two hoots whether what they're buying is an 'accurate' (and current RTR is generally very accurate) model or not. If they can't even see it, how would they know, anyway? 

 

 

Personally, I would not even dignify such people with the title of 'collector'.  They are in my view mere 'speculators', purchasing items in the hope and belief they will appreciate in value over time without even having the modest pleasure of putting them into a cabinet and admiring them in the meantime.

 

In the short-term they may even succeed in their aim.  In the longer-term, I seriously doubt it.  The pool of 'genuine' modellers who would want to buy such an item to run is gradually being diluted both by advancing age and advancing time (the longer the history of railways goes on, the more subjects there are to model - and indeed to collect - and therefore presumably the less models or collections of any one specific theme).  Newer models of the same subject will also eventually diminish their attraction.  And most are made in at least sufficient numbers that true scarcity is unlikely to feature; especially once the older current generation of  'collectors' begin to die-off and their hoards are returned to the market.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Willie Whizz

[grahame]

4 minutes ago, johnarcher said:

I could certainly be wrong too, my knowledge of these new technologies is very limited indeed.

I was referring to the resin prints on a Photon machine that Knuckles of this parish (alias Sparkshot) introduced in this thread 

They seemed of very good finish compared to the Shapeways, especially the basic WSF, and cheaper too.

 

Yep. I'm under the impression that the Photon printer is an SLA machine so should produce better quality (resolution) than Shapeways. No doubt a technical geek will be able to confirm.

 

I've certainly been disappointed with prints from Shapeways with stratification ridges (although I understand that the orientation in the printer can have a big effect) which in N/2mm seem more obvious and prevalent while other suppliers/printers offer better/smoother quality (although not necessarily design and detail accuracy).

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 hour ago, Theakerr said:

For many Tuesdays over probably the last 12 years, a friend and I have watched U-Tube Model Railway videos and videos of Model Railway shows.   Living in the GWN, it is the only way we can 'get' to the shows.   Over this time period, there has been a very significant improvement in the scenic quality of many layouts, technically, historically and artistically.   In our pseudo analysis there is a direct correlation with the improvement, variety and variability of RTR locomotives and rolling stock that have been weathered and detailed.  So I suggest that the Hobby has lost (is loosing) a skill set on the one hand moving one step backwards but on the other hand has gained another very significant skill set moving about 10 steps forwards.   Railway Modellers in general, now have the ability and TIME to model location specific areas without having to build the area appropriate rolling stock and the resultant time savings has produced many layouts that are more or less historically accurate and either depict a real place, a 'representation' of a real place or a 'flavour' of the appropriate real thing.

 

I think that is too broad a generalisation. I suggest the caveat to your view is that the videos on Youtube are of exhibitions, where the layouts should hopefully be to a very good standard.

 

When we think about the wide variety of loco, carriage and wagon classes or types that ran in the Big Four to the present day (never mind the pre-grouping period) then the RTR offerings only provide a proportion of what could be seen. Usually there isn't a sufficiently wide range of RTR models reasonably well cover a particular period or area that well unless you restrict the time or location you model. At least that is how it would appear, given the extent of the models listed in the annual RTR "wish list" poll here on RMweb.

 

While you are undoubtedly right that the scenic aspect of model railways has come on tremendously, well modelled track (ignoring the gauge) is something that is often ignored. Given many modellers claim they can't solder, can they assemble signals, lineside paraphernalia,  etc. from kits to provide realistic infrastructure details?

 

.

 

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

43 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

When we think about the wide variety of loco, carriage and wagon classes or types that ran in the Big Four to the present day (never mind the pre-grouping period) then the RTR offerings only provide a proportion of what could be seen. Usually there isn't a sufficiently wide range of RTR models reasonably well cover a particular period or area that well unless you restrict the time or location you model. At least that is how it would appear, given the extent of the models listed in the annual RTR "wish list" poll here on RMweb.

My main modelling is restricted to the period from the change of BR crests to before the advent of yellow panels, so 1956 to 1961 in general terms. The area is the Black Country around Dudley. I've found pictures and recorded sightings of about 40 classes of steam locos so far. I'm at least seven steam, two diesel shunters and four railcar/DMU types short.  As for coaching stock it is almost anything produced by the Big Four except for a few special types, and for wagons there are at least twenty on this year's Poll that don't have a decent RTR presence but appeared every day in the area.

My kit stash / cut'n'shut pile doesn't seem to reduce however much I work on it. 

[The Johnster]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Al,

 

Perhaps they won't sell quite as well after all. I'll wait to see how good the 3D-printing is, and the bodies will still need finishing off, won't they? Has anyone yet 3D-printed separate handrails? 

 

Anyway, on to more personal modelling. 

 

My contribution to the freight stock on LB is dismally-low. I'm lucky to have the work of others, of course - mostly kit-built, but with a considerable number of modified RTR items. However, I thought I'd try and redress the balance (in a small way) by building plastic wagon/van kits as part of my demonstrating at shows. 

 

I bought the kit below at Wigan, a fortnight ago, and started it on the Sunday...................

 

 

In between my writing book reviews for BRM today, it's now complete. It's the one on the right, a Parkside ex-SR BY van. It stands next to the Hornby equivalent (this one weathered by Rob Davey). Why would I want (or need?) to build a kit for the same thing, given that the RTR one is excellent? 

 

As mentioned, it's a useful demonstrating item. And, in that vein, it's an excellent starting point for those who want to get into actually making things for themselves. Finally, I wanted an example in earlier BR bright red (which I don't think Hornby does). I admit it came out a bit too bright to start with (Vauxhall Flame Red rattle can over red primer), but weathering has toned it down to a satisfactory level; I think. 

 

It's not as good as the RTR example overall (haven't we been here before?) but so what? It's uniquely 'mine', and that is important. 

 

I have a question. The Southern Region green one has body-colour ends, but I'm sure the red/maroon-painted vans had black - up until spray-painting became common in the '60s. Should the ends be black? Or red?

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Not as good as the Hornby, but by no means bad and capable of being worked up as much as you like, much cheaper, and arguably more versatile as it can be posed with open doors, in addition to being ‘uniquely yours’.   Not built this one but I’ve got a lot of time for Parksides; satisfying to build, well designed, excellent value, good runners once you’ve ballasted ‘em.  As you rightly say, they make a very good introduction for anyone progressing into kits from RTR. 

 

I have the Hornby version in crimson BR livery, and am very happy with it!  

[TheSignalEngineer]

The Parkside BY was the first  kit I built when I returned to model making after retiring from work. I have a bit of a record for my kit building to be covered RTR, as my next was a Pillbox Brake followed by a 3H Coke Hopper and a bit further down the line a Parkside Plate.

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, Theakerr said:

For many Tuesdays over probably the last 12 years, a friend and I have watched U-Tube Model Railway videos and videos of Model Railway shows.   Living in the GWN, it is the only way we can 'get' to the shows.   Over this time period, there has been a very significant improvement in the scenic quality of many layouts, technically, historically and artistically.   In our pseudo analysis there is a direct correlation with the improvement, variety and variability of RTR locomotives and rolling stock that have been weathered and detailed.  So I suggest that the Hobby has lost (is loosing) a skill set on the one hand moving one step backwards but on the other hand has gained another very significant skill set moving about 10 steps forwards.   Railway Modellers in general, now have the ability and TIME to model location specific areas without having to build the area appropriate rolling stock and the resultant time savings has produced many layouts that are more or less historically accurate and either depict a real place, a 'representation' of a real place or a 'flavour' of the appropriate real thing.

'So I suggest that the Hobby has lost (is loosing) a skill set on the one hand moving one step backwards'

 

May I suggest that if it's only one step backwards, it's a very big one?  

 

I'll explain. Though the hobby is much, much more than locos and rolling stock, to the trainspotter generation (mine), what pulls the train and what train is being pulled is the most important element. I agree that many more layouts these days are actual representations of reality (though certainly not on the telly!), and if that's because by having better RTR locos/stock, time is released by not having to build such things, then that's good. Then if that time can be used for building 'more-accurate' layouts, then that's also good. As long as the prototype is always observed. I still see scenically-attractive layouts which just would not work (as a railway) in reality. Mike Romans (The Stationmaster on here) once gave LB the greatest compliment by saying 'Not only does it look like a real railway, but it works like a real railway (in scale)'. 

 

Returning the prominence of the loco in the hobby, and the vast (single) step backwards in the decline of making such things, I do rather get bored by seeing a layout populated entirely with Bachhornheljpol products, modified/improved though they might be. I rather get the feeling 'I've seen all this before'. The 'stories' to tell about how they've come about are rather limited.

 

In my own case (rather singular, I admit), RTR steam-outline locos are of little use to me. I've said many times (and it's been demonstrated many times) that they just won't pull the prototype-length trains I run (trains, often comprised of heavy, kit-built stock). I agree, I'm in a minority of 'needs' here, but if the kits start to disappear (and some already have) then that single step backwards is getting bigger and bigger. And (selfishly?) it impacts on the likes of me.

 

And, do the RTR boys/girls supply all 'we' need on the loco/stock front? All we need to represent a 'realistic' day's 'spotting? For the line/time/scale I model, definitely not. Let's look at's what's missing............... Every Thompson Pacific, an A5 (indeed, any Pacific tank), all three types of B16s, a C12, a J6 (any GNR 0-6-0 tender loco), a J69, a K2, (the K5), an N5, an O4/6, O4/7 or O4/8, a decent V2 and the W1. Quite a list. As for (passenger) rolling stock................. We have excellent RTR Mk.1s and good Thompson cars (though no catering vehicles), but where are the decent gangwayed RTR Gresleys? As for anything older, well a good whistle is needed. 

 

Those (significant) ten steps forward you mention, come at a price.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[cctransuk]

10 hours ago, Craigw said:

 

Because you have a modicum of concern about accuracy?

 

I simply cannot see any logical reason for getting the latest  RTR model (like the forthcoming D class) and then sticking freelance stock behind it.  To me it flies in the face of any talk about accuracy and desire to recreate the real thing. 

 

Craig W 

 

If an LMS 4F was to be released, painted, lettered and numbered as an SR Q, there would be an outcry and sales would be minimal.

 

Yet I was shouted down at, (and I now ignore), the freelance / generic coach thread for suggesting that these forthcoming models should not be given house-room by anyone who purports to be a modeller.

 

I fail to understand the mentality of someone who gets seriously 'wound-up' about the minutest details of a 'Terrier', yet welcomes the promise of models of coaches that never existed, just because they will bear a version of the livery which matches the locomotive.

 

IMHO, that is NOT modelling; it's playing with RTR trains.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.