Wright writes.....

[Jon4470]

NERA do have Diagram books for NER coaches. I think there are 5 volumes. Like most ( if not all)  Diagram books they show one side only and don’t give information about withdrawal dates etc.

 

[Tony Wright]

On 07/02/2020 at 13:16, jacko said:

A question if I may Tony?  The leaf springs don't appear to be attached to anything at the ends.  Have I missed a discussion about that earlier or is something missing?  (basing my limited knowledge of springs on my own MG midget). 

 

Graeme

They're not, Graeme,

 

And it's something I need to address. In fact, the springs themselves are rather puny.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

On 09/02/2020 at 09:22, rowanj said:

My latest model is this LRM N8, a pleasure to build. I'm posting it here, largely in the context of Tony's build of the Isinglass Pigeon Van, and because of the extensive knowledge base of the thread's followers. If I understand correctly, Isinglass will produce a 3D model from drawings on their list, which includes a fair selection of ex-NER non-corridor coaches. I need to know which, if any, diagrams survived into the 1950's, so my locos wont be forever towing Hornby Gresley and Thompson stock- or at least not exclusively. Any help gratefully received - by PM if Tony would rather not clog up the thread on this issue,

John

'if Tony would rather not clog up the thread on this issue,'

 

'Clog up' this thread, John?

 

Not at all - keep it coming.......

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Just to bring a few things together, if I may?

 

Firstly, thanks for all the recent responses on the thread. Mo and I were at the Doncaster Show over the weekend, and nowhere near computers with RMweb on them. 

 

Speaking of Doncaster, it seemed to be a success. It certainly was for us, where Mo and I made £139.00 for CRUK from my fixing things (100% success, almost. A battered Farish N Gauge Jinty defeated me!), through the sale of a donated locomotive and from passers by just popping money into our collection box. Our most-grateful thanks to all those who donated so generously. 

 

I took the Isinglass pigeon van along, and clearly there are some issues. I'll paint it, but it'll definitely be a 'layout van' - seen from a distance? 

 

Now, something that needs to be understood by all. For all readers' information (in response to some 'potential' questions), I receive no fee from the manufacturers when I'm asked for help, to report on or assess their products. I ask for none, because I prefer to remain impartial. This can be my appearing in a DVD or taking photographs. If travelling, my petrol cost is reimbursed, and on occasions I get to keep models. Since these (being RTR) are mainly of little use to me, I sell them, donating the proceeds to CRUK, or give them away to friends/clubs/children at shows. If I write a review for a magazine, I take payment for that.

 

I was asked at Doncaster by one chap 'How do you extricate yourself from a product, having endorsed it, yet many have been returned because of faults?' I won't mention the actual product, because, after a phone call this morning with the manufacturer, I was assured that any problems are being dealt with with expediency. The examples I reported on were perfect. 

 

I hope the above sets the record straight.......

[landscapes]

Good Morning Tony

 

I hope you don't mind me asking for the benefit of your wisdom regarding tenders fitted to A4 Pacific's.

 

According to a schedule I have named  "Doncaster Works Schedule Part 30 Tenders attached to A4 Pacific's " it states that A4 60009 Union of South Africa was fitted with a S type Streamlined Non Corridor Tender during the period I am modelling 1958/1959.

 

Surely this cannot be correct as I am sure I have seen photos of 60009 on the Elizabethan.

 

I believe I have already made a mistake as my 60009 is fitted to an SC type Streamlined Corridor tender the one with a splayed back either side of the corridor entrance and I now realise it may have had a C type New Type Corridor Tender which has a straight back, I hope this makes sense? 

 

A4 tenders are a minefield and totally confusing, do you know which type of tender was fitted to A4 60009 around the late 1950's.

 

Regards

 

David

Edited February 10, 2020 by landscapes
additional information

[micklner]

1 hour ago, Jon4470 said:

NERA do have Diagram books for NER coaches. I think there are 5 volumes. Like most ( if not all)  Diagram books they show one side only and don’t give information about withdrawal dates etc.

 

They do not say what each book covers in their listings either, I suggest ask first before any ordering !

 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, landscapes said:

Good Morning Tony

 

I hope you don't mind me asking for the benefit of your wisdom regarding tenders fitted to A4 Pacific's.

 

According to a schedule I have named  "Doncaster Works Schedule Part 30 Tenders attached to A4 Pacific's " it states that A4 60009 Union of South Africa was fitted with a S type Streamlined Non Corridor Tender during the period I am modelling 1958/1959.

 

Surely this cannot be correct as I am sure I have seen photos of 60009 on the Elizabethan.

 

I believe I have already made a mistake as my 60009 is fitted to an SC type Streamlined Corridor tender the one with a splayed back either side of the corridor entrance and I now realise it may have had a C type New Type Corridor Tender which has a straight back, I hope this makes sense? 

 

A4 tenders are a minefield and totally confusing, do you know which type of tender was fitted to A4 60009 around the late 1950's.

 

Regards

 

David

David,

 

According to my records, 60009 had a 1935-style streamlined corridor tender in the period you mention. That is, radiused rear to match the streamlined stock, a small turn-in at the front of the tanks and no beading. It did not have the extra strip at the base of the soleplate.

 

This is not the sort of corridor tender she towed towards the end of her BR career, nor the type she tows in preservation. They were/are 1928 corridor tenders, with beading. A pity, as none of the original A4 tenders survive in preservation, and even the rebuilt tank on the one behind BITTERN is in the 1928 style. 

 

I don't know where you get 'C type New Type Corridor Tender' from. The only corridor tenders with a straight back were the 11 built in 1928 to go behind A1s, A3s and the W1. 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Clem]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Speaking of Doncaster, it seemed to be a success.

I had hoped to go on Sunday (Chris had the car on Saturday), but the weather convinced me otherwise. I did think about the financial consequences weather wise particularly after what happened at Nottingham a couple or so years back which seemed to be a final straw for that show, at least on that scale. So I am pleased that Doncaster survived the weather without too much effect. I was interested particularly as there were 4 EM layouts on show. Nice to see such a high percentage for a bit of a change (personal opinion). I must admit I'm still struggling on the modelling front at the moment, just making an attempt to increase my iron ore hopper rake by a couple, but regrettably without much enthusiasm. On the right, another cut and shut Bachmann Charles Roberts type (still much detailing left) and on the left the beginnings of an LMS 8'6 high steel hopper. I had been hoping Doncaster would give me a bit of inspiration, but I suppose you can't legislate for the weather.

[landscapes]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

David,

 

According to my records, 60009 had a 1935-style streamlined corridor tender in the period you mention. That is, radiused rear to match the streamlined stock, a small turn-in at the front of the tanks and no beading. It did not have the extra strip at the base of the soleplate.

 

This is not the sort of corridor tender she towed towards the end of her BR career, nor the type she tows in preservation. They were/are 1928 corridor tenders, with beading. A pity, as none of the original A4 tenders survive in preservation, and even the rebuilt tank on the one behind BITTERN is in the 1928 style. 

 

I don't know where you get 'C type New Type Corridor Tender' from. The only corridor tenders with a straight back were the 11 built in 1928 to go behind A1s, A3s and the W1. 

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony

 

Many thanks for the reply and information.

 

The C type tender was listed on the schedule I mention in my cry for help, I did try to put it on with my enquiry but it was a web page format and I couldn’t down load it.

 

thanks again for your help you confirm I do have the correct tender fitted.

 

Regards

 

David

Edited February 10, 2020 by landscapes
Spellcheck

[CUTLER2579]

David, 

According to the Sir Nigel Gresley Locomotive Trust Limited in  it's  Chime 129, Autumn 2003 Edition  is an article by Mel Haigh called a "Tangle of Tenders". It is basically a history of Tenders coupled to A4's.

For 60009 

 

Tender Nº5591 – 1935 Streamlined Corridor Type Tender.

 

Attached to 60016 SILVER KING  From  7/9/1935  until  28/1/1936

 

Attached to  A4  60009  UNION OF SOUTH AFRICA  From 14/5/1948 until  16/7/1963. 

 

Regards,Derek.

Edited February 10, 2020 by CUTLER2579
Typo re 1928 should have been 1935 .Thanks Tony.

[Tony Wright]

54 minutes ago, CUTLER2579 said:

David, 

According to the Sir Nigel Gresley Locomotive Trust Limited in  it's  Chime 129, Autumn 2003 Edition  is an article by Mel Haigh called a "Tangle of Tenders". It is basically a history of Tenders coupled to A4's.

For 60009 

 

Tender Nº5591 – 1928 Streamlined Corridor Type Tender.

Attached to  A460009UNION OF SOUTH AFRICA  From 14/5/1948 until  16/7/1963. 

 

Regards,Derek.

It can't be a '1928 Streamlined Corridor Type Tender', Derek. 

 

The streamlined corridor tender didn't appear until 1935, with the first four A4s.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

I've just been informed by Dave Ellis (SE Finecast) that Ron Goult has died.

 

Ron was the originator and first proprietor of the Little Engines range of loco kits. Dave did the castings for him.

 

The range was sold, the moulds returned and nothing more seems to have been heard of it.

[landscapes]

7 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

It can't be a '1928 Streamlined Corridor Type Tender', Derek. 

 

The streamlined corridor tender didn't appear until 1935, with the first four A4s.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hi

 

Certainly the tender number and dates all conform to all the information I have read regarding the tender fitted to 60009.

 

I have always said it was a nightmare selecting the correct tender for an A4 loco when renaming one , but thank you to both of you for your help.

 

Regards

 

Dvid

[Willie Whizz]

2 hours ago, Clem said:

I had hoped to go on Sunday (Chris had the car on Saturday), but the weather convinced me otherwise. I did think about the financial consequences weather wise particularly after what happened at Nottingham a couple or so years back which seemed to be a final straw for that show, at least on that scale. So I am pleased that Doncaster survived the weather without too much effect.

...

 

I did go to Doncaster on Sunday - my first visit - and yes, the appalling weather and flooded car-park brought back the same memory.  There have been two 'Nottingham' shows since heavy snow created the disaster that also happened on a Sunday; sadly in a different venue and on a very much-reduced scale (only about 6-8 layouts if memory serves).  Unfortunately I suspect that tends to mean for many people that, unless there's something they particularly want to view, or a trader they want to  buy from, it may not really justify the expense and time of travelling the distance to what is alas no longer "the" premier railway modelling event in the East Midlands, but "just" a local show.  Their 2020 exhibition is on 14/15 March - there's a link on the 'Exhibitions' tab of this site - and I do hope it does well; I shall certainly be going anyway.

[Headstock]

3 hours ago, Clem said:

I had hoped to go on Sunday (Chris had the car on Saturday), but the weather convinced me otherwise. I did think about the financial consequences weather wise particularly after what happened at Nottingham a couple or so years back which seemed to be a final straw for that show, at least on that scale. So I am pleased that Doncaster survived the weather without too much effect. I was interested particularly as there were 4 EM layouts on show. Nice to see such a high percentage for a bit of a change (personal opinion). I must admit I'm still struggling on the modelling front at the moment, just making an attempt to increase my iron ore hopper rake by a couple, but regrettably without much enthusiasm. On the right, another cut and shut Bachmann Charles Roberts type (still much detailing left) and on the left the beginnings of an LMS 8'6 high steel hopper. I had been hoping Doncaster would give me a bit of inspiration, but I suppose you can't legislate for the weather.

 

Keep chugging away Clem,

 

The most difficult train to build on the  whole panoply of model railways, which is why yours is so unique. Nobody needs another soulless tippler train. A picture to inspire when life's a bit of a bum. Look how bad the GWR had it, they needed two locomotives!

 

Can you identify them all?

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Headstock
pose a question.

[great central]

24 minutes ago, Willie Whizz said:

 

I did go to Doncaster on Sunday - my first visit - and yes, the appalling weather and flooded car-park brought back the same memory.  There have been two 'Nottingham' shows since heavy snow created the disaster that also happened on a Sunday; sadly in a different venue and on a very much-reduced scale (only about 6-8 layouts if memory serves).  Unfortunately I suspect that tends to mean for many people that, unless there's something they particularly want to view, or a trader they want to  buy from, it may not really justify the expense and time of travelling the distance to what is alas no longer "the" premier railway modelling event in the East Midlands, but "just" a local show.  Their 2020 exhibition is on 14/15 March - there's a link on the 'Exhibitions' tab of this site - and I do hope it does well; I shall certainly be going anyway.

 

 

The Nottingham show is alive and well, albeit smaller. Very much a high quality show still with a selection of traders. The new style and venue have been very well received, as mentioned above it is on 14th and 15th March this year. Admission is a very reasonable £4.

The biggest issue with the 'big' show was falling attendances over the years. Nottingham as a city isn't very outward looking in my opinion. The redeveloped Harvey Hadden facility was planned from the outset to be little more than a local venue with very limited car parking and being where it is not particularly good public transport infrastructure.

We have had bad weather in the past and kept the show going, one memorable year we were scuppered by the weather FORECAST! It was for snow so people stayed away, the day was characterised by wall to wall blue skies.

The Nottingham show is staged by a relatively small club with most of the work done by a small proportion of the members, the big show taking almost all of some people's spare time throughout the whole year. I'm sure other show organisers can understand that if the returns don't justify the work involved there is little incentive to carry on.

Doncaster, in contrast, is backed by all the resources a large company can supply along with financial back up in the event of bad weather or other problems.

To have carried on with the big show would simply have led to the demise of the club. 

[gr.king]

2 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

Keep chugging away Clem,

 

The most difficult train to build on the  whole panoply of model railways, which is why yours is so unique. Nobody needs another soulless tippler train. A picture to inspire when life's a bit of a bum. Look how bad the GWR had it, they needed two locomotives!

 

Can you identify them all?

 

 

Wagons three and eight (if I've counted properly) appear to be ex Appleby-Frodingham peak-ended steel hoppers, a long way from Scunthorpe or High Dyke!

 

Maybe one more much further back too.......

[cctransuk]

4 minutes ago, gr.king said:

 

Wagons three and eight (if I've counted properly) appear to be ex Appleby-Frodingham peak-ended steel hoppers, a long way from Scunthorpe or High Dyke!

 

Maybe one more much further back too.......

 

It's very noticeable that iron ore trains on the WR were comprised overwhelmingly of hopper wagons, whereas the LMR and, to a large extent the ER, used primarily tipplers.

 

I can only assume that the receiving plants for WR ore trains did not have the equipment to handle tipplers, but used under-rail bunkers that suited bottom discharge hoppers.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, gr.king said:

 

Wagons three and eight (if I've counted properly) appear to be ex Appleby-Frodingham peak-ended steel hoppers, a long way from Scunthorpe or High Dyke!

 

Maybe one more much further back too.......

 

There is a third Appleby-Frodingham hopper towards the black hut in front of the telegraph pole.

 

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

It's very noticeable that iron ore trains on the WR were comprised overwhelmingly of hopper wagons, whereas the LMR and, to a large extent the ER, used primarily tipplers.

 

I can only assume that the receiving plants for WR ore trains did not have the equipment to handle tipplers, but used under-rail bunkers that suited bottom discharge hoppers.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

The iron ore tipplers were rather a late development. ER and LMR iron ore trains were still composed of hoppers for most of the BR steam period. The LMS had a large fleet of Iron stone hoppers, they turn up in almost every photo of iron ore trains, on all regions, prior to the tippler invasion. There are quite a few in the above photo.

[Clem]

9 hours ago, Headstock said:

The iron ore tipplers were rather a late development. ER and LMR iron ore trains were still composed of hoppers for most of the BR steam period. The LMS had a large fleet of Iron stone hoppers, they turn up in almost every photo of iron ore trains, on all regions, prior to the tippler invasion. There are quite a few in the above photo.

That's spot on, Andrew. Up until about 1958 the iron ore trains on the Stanton run were all hoppers. Within about a year they had become all tipplers. I think the hoppers may have lasted longer in South Wales and on the ex-GW lines south of Birmingham. They are a bit of nightmare to scratch build. The first thing you've got to get right is the angles of the hopper. Ability in 3-D trigonometry is a must. :-)  ... then there's the rivets.  On the Bachmann cut'n'shuts it's the fiddly hopper bottom door opening gear that's the awkward part. For both these types the under frame is very open. It'd be lovely to have a kit for the LMS hoppers a few of which survive at the Rutland Railway museum. It would certainly save me a lot of time. I've got a few of them to build.

[t-b-g]

Anybody interested in Iron Ore hoppers should really have a look at the very in depth series of articles by Geoff Kent in MRJ.

 

The train he made up, which was photographed on Retford for the articles but usually runs on Black Lion Crossing, is as good as it gets.

[Clem]

14 hours ago, great central said:

The Nottingham show is alive and well, albeit smaller. Very much a high quality show still with a selection of traders. The new style and venue have been very well received, as mentioned above it is on 14th and 15th March this year. Admission is a very reasonable £4.

The biggest issue with the 'big' show was falling attendances over the years. Nottingham as a city isn't very outward looking in my opinion. The redeveloped Harvey Hadden facility was planned from the outset to be little more than a local venue with very limited car parking and being where it is not particularly good public transport infrastructure.

We have had bad weather in the past and kept the show going, one memorable year we were scuppered by the weather FORECAST! It was for snow so people stayed away, the day was characterised by wall to wall blue skies.

The Nottingham show is staged by a relatively small club with most of the work done by a small proportion of the members, the big show taking almost all of some people's spare time throughout the whole year. I'm sure other show organisers can understand that if the returns don't justify the work involved there is little incentive to carry on.

Doncaster, in contrast, is backed by all the resources a large company can supply along with financial back up in the event of bad weather or other problems.

To have carried on with the big show would simply have led to the demise of the club. 

 I wasn't meaning to demean the new show in any way.  I went last year and it was good. It's just that I remember what the Nottingham show once was like. You literally couldn't move for the numbers attending. Such a shame to have lost that. But at least it's still going. Is it still at Clifton, this year?

[Clem]

4 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

Anybody interested in Iron Ore hoppers should really have a look at the very in depth series of articles by Geoff Kent in MRJ.

 

The train he made up, which was photographed on Retford for the articles but usually runs on Black Lion Crossing, is as good as it gets.

Geoff's in a different league, Tony! 

[t-b-g]

5 minutes ago, Clem said:

Geoff's in a different league, Tony! 

 

I know! The articles did contain a lot of prototype information and listed possible sources of models and alterations that could be done to make variations.

 

It is just that his finished models might be a little bit better than most!

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

Anybody interested in Iron Ore hoppers should really have a look at the very in depth series of articles by Geoff Kent in MRJ.

 

The train he made up, which was photographed on Retford for the articles but usually runs on Black Lion Crossing, is as good as it gets.

 

Geoff Kents Iron ore train is a superb piece of modelling.