Wright writes.....

[Ray Flintoft]

6 hours ago, Clem said:

Yes, the Tiny's as referred to by the GC men were indeed the 0-8-0s but I believe it was the O4s that were referred to as Tiny's by Colwick's ex-GN and LNE men. Certainly when I used to speak at length with Alf Henshaw,  who worked in control at Nottingham Victoria and later East Leake during the war, he always referred to O4s as Tiny's. I once brought this subject up with him but he said, certainly withing the locality, it was O4s. It was probably a GN thing. You know, 'all GC freight engines look alike', never mind the front pony!

 

As regards the Hush hush, I could do a representation on here but you wouldn't hear it. 

 

You're correct 90000 was at Annesley - for the summer of 1947.  But from October 1947 to February 1959 it was at Colwick.

 

Finally, I thought long and hard about cutting off the moulded piping on the DJH WD but chickened out in the end. However, I have got another DJH WD to do and I *will* cut it off on that. You're absolutely right that it's not a great representation of the real thing.

Hi Clem ,

     Replacing the moulded pipework on the W.D. is well worth the effort ,it makes a big difference . Here's one of mine which has also been modified to represent the redesigned firebox fitted to many of the class . The distinctive clank could be heard for miles . We could hear them coming into York whilst sat in our class at school . over a mile away !

                        Cheers ,

                                  Ray .

[Clem]

17 minutes ago, Ray Flintoft said:

Hi Clem ,

     Replacing the moulded pipework on the W.D. is well worth the effort ,it makes a big difference . Here's one of mine which has also been modified to represent the redesigned firebox fitted to many of the class . The distinctive clank could be heard for miles . We could hear them coming into York whilst sat in our class at school . over a mile away !

                        Cheers ,

                                  Ray .

Hi Ray, 

Yes, that proves the point. It looks so much better. You made a very good and realistic model there, Ray. WD in typical condition. By 1960, a lot had the modified firebox but in the period I'm modelling (1954-5), they were still fairly thin on the ground.The problem is, there is no record which boilers/fireboxes were modified and when. As regards the moulded piping, I will make the effort on the next one but, at least for the time being,  I'll live with this one. On the right side of the loco, many had a series (4) of small oil feed pipes from the cab just below the front spectacle. That'll be another detail I'd like to tackle. But you really need to make the holes in the cab front before you fold it up.

[Barry Ten]

4 hours ago, johndon said:

 

That was me and, based on the photo above, I stand by my comment.  I appreciate the explanation that you gave in your reply and, yes, the fields beyond the railway aren't 'dull' but they are no brighter a green than the foreground scenery.  For me, the green in your backscene is too bright compared to the foreground scenery.

 

All of course, in my opinion which I hope is seen as constructive and others will clearly differ.  As and when I get round to the backscene on my layout, I'll upload some photos and let others offer constructive comments...

 

John

 

It might be a minority viewpoint but I'm with John here; I can see the evidence that the horizon line is relatively close in reality but I still think the backscene tones could do with being a little desaturated.

 

Al

 

 

[t-b-g]

I would tend to agree about he backscene. Distant colours should be more muted than close up ones.

 

On Little Bytham, the foreground scenery colours look just about spot on but the backscene is slightly more vivid than the foreground, which tends to bring the backscene forward rather than make it go into the distance.

 

As i write this, I am thinking of all the times I tried and failed to paint a good backscene!

 

 

[Atso]

Hello Tony,

 

I've really been enjoying viewing the before and after photographs of Little Bytham's construction.

 

I'd like to offer a take on the subject of variations, using my N gauge Atlantics.

 

 

These are 4436 (left) and 3286 (right) in the process of being lined out using my bow pens and fine brushes. While they are both of the C1 class, there are differences between the two locos. Most of these are visible but the smokebox saddle (denoting piston valves) under 4436 is not in this photograph.

 

The tenders have not be neglected (sorry about the poor focus).

 

 

Finally my (almost finished) model of 4452 (shown several times previously) which shows yet further detail variations within the class.

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Atso

[Headstock]

4 hours ago, Clem said:

Sorry Andrew, I meant/should have said  West, specifically on the GN Derby/Pinxton line. I know they were regular on the GC and came down the Leen Valley line and GC main line to Annesley. I personally never saw one South of Annesley on the GC though. Having said that, I only lived in sight of the GC line from January 1960 onwards. I presume Frank Stratford was talking 1950s and the O2s were on freight from.... Doncaster or York?

 

I know there are plenty of pictures of O2s on Annesley. I have a slight interest in this as when my brother passed away in 2014, his kits came to me including a Nucast O2/2. So I'm looking for an excuse to build and run it, although it would be down the list a bit.

 

Good evening Clem,

 

the O2's were at Langwith junction, and they also worked in on steel trains from Frodingham. It wasn't unknown for them to be borrowed for a quick run as far south as Leicester on a pick up goods. This is when they recorded on shed before returning north. It never ceases to surprise me what turned up on Leicester shed, visitors from the Manchester area were quite common, not just the more obvious types such as B1's, B7 etc, but C13's, J10's and J11's made the trip over the big hill.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Headstock
clarify a point

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

 

It might be a minority viewpoint but I'm with John here; I can see the evidence that the horizon line is relatively close in reality but I still think the backscene tones could do with being a little desaturated.

 

Al

 

 

I'm going to 'fight my corner' here, Al,

 

Normally, I'd agree entirely that distant colours should be more muted (as Tony Gee observes), but there is no aerial or atmospheric perspective present in the Glen Valley at Little Bytham,because the horizon is so close. 

 

 

I took this shot this evening from my workshop window, and, if anything, the more-distant trees are darker in tone than the nearer ones. Obviously, because of the need to light the scene at this time of day, it's the opposite side of the valley from the backscene depicted on the layout, but the horizon line here is almost twice as far away. 

 

 

Taken in the right direction this time (July, a couple of years ago), from the Witham Road, looking out over the Willoughby. The railway runs behind the new houses to the right. 

 

If one squints at the picture, if anything the nearer tones are the lightest. I'm actually higher than the relative position at eye level on the model, so the model's horizon is actually nearer than seen here. 

 

 

I hope this shot illustrates my point. By far the lightest natural tone is the embankment, and I think that's what folk have been comparing my backscene with. Why is it the lightest? Well, the real thing is made mainly of limestone rubble (if anyone thinks the 'model' limestone outcrops are wrong, they might ask themselves the question, 'Where has it come from?'), and the batter is far steeper than anything found naturally. Limestone drains exceptionally well, and it's a summer depiction, so the embankment grass gets less water than the surrounding area, because less is retained. It's thus, more-muted. The foot of the embankment is much more lush, as would be the far side of the railway. 

 

Anyway, the backscene can always be lightened.......

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[great central]

Regarding the ongoing discussion about landscape colours, on our way to Manchester show last December we took the road over the peak between Chesterfield and Stockport. At times the landscape was shades of very vivid greens, to the point where we both decided that some models using vivid green scatter materials aren't actually that far wrong!

[Tony Wright]

This afternoon's job........

 

I had a request from Hollar asking if I knew of anyone who could change the drive from the middle to the rear axle on a South Eastern Finecast Flatiron he's building. The chassis had been built by someone else, but Tony didn't want a visible drive through the tank apertures. 

 

Well, I know several folk who could do it, but I thought I'll do it myself. The model arrived by this morning's post, and it didn't take long. I was offered a fee, but I've requested a donation to CRUK be made (such is the paucity of donations I've made since lockdown).

 

Anyway, here it is........

 

 

Don't you just love a DCC harness? In fairness, this'll be disguised in the boiler.

 

I can't help feeling it might have been better to solder the splashers in place on the footplate before the tanks......

 

 

Apart from having to adjust the (flimsy, phosphor bronze) pick-ups and cut off the rear of the rear bearings, the job was done in no time. It's got a hefty Mashima and a beautifully-sweet High Level gearbox.

 

It does run very smoothly.

 

Thanks in anticipation of your donation, Tony. It'll be posted back on Monday. 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[polybear]

11 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I've told this story on RMweb before but possibly not on this particular topic, so here goes.

 

One day back in the 1970s there was some fairly major disruption to trains in the Derby area and things were running, as the saying goes, "by the calendar". The signal box supervisor was obviously telling the lady announcer what to say and she would broadcast it verbatim over the PA. At one point the announcement came through "The xx.xx to London St Pancras is now arriving at Platform 6. First-class accommodation is at the @rse end of the train".

 

Radio silence for about three minutes...

 

In a similar vein, though not railway related:

 

"John" the Security Guard had been using the site tannoy system at work, which covered a site of some 6000-odd employees.

Shortly afterwards, someone went into the Gatehouse and spoke to John:

"Inspector So-and-So wants to see you"

"Oh no", says John.  "What does that little fat w*nker want?"  The conversation continued.....

The phone rings - it was the M.D.'s secretary.  The M.D. was a certain Admiral Sir Raymond Lygo, previously a Captain of The Ark Royal.

"John, for christ's sake shut up.  You've left the Tannoy on and the whole site can hear you!!"

"Oh sh*t" says John.

He waited a while for incoming flack - none came.  So he phoned the M.D.'s secretary to enquire if "Sir" had said anything.

"No" came the reply.  "In fact it's the first time I've seen the miserable b'stard smile for weeks....."

[robmcg]

13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Without wishing to prolong the 'debate' further, perhaps an interesting fact?.................

 

I've just received for review two books from Crecy; one is a reprint Ian Allan abc for 1954, and the other is the current 2020 equivalent. 

 

Much to my shame, I haven't bothered counting the different locomotive types in the latter volume (which also includes all the carriages and units, as well as preserved, active locos), but here are the number of different steam classes in operation on BR in 1954.....

 

WR: 62

SR: 55

LMR/ScR: 66

ER/NER/ScR: 105

 

That list doesn't include sub-divisions in classes (Fowler/Stanier/Fairburn 2-6-4Ts, for instance). Staggering, isn't it? Granted, by 1958, a few of those would have disappeared, but I've not included the BR Standards nor diesel or electric locos, of which there would have been a lot more in 1958. 

 

As it happens Tony my 1958 'Observers Book of Railway Locomotives of Britain', pocket size, was my Christmas Present for 1959, when I was 8 years and it was, and is, a treasured possession,  and my older brother's 1955 edition was supplanted.  I still own both and sometimes consult them.

 

I can attest however that a 3 year old will still literally jump for joy at the sight of a train going by.

 

There's no accounting for taste. A line of five or six EMDs in notch 8, lifting 15,000 tons of container freight out of California is to some a truly stunning thing.

 

That said, I nearly bought a B1 today....  the Scottish style with fillets on the running plates.  These things need thought.

 

Disjointed post, apologies.  Better have a cup of tea and think of a new picture. 

 

 

 

 

[DougN]

Rob your right, kids just love trains. I am known in the street as the train guy. Any child from the age of about 2 to about 6 has been known to say, after a glimpse that there is a train set, " can I see the trains go?" Generally followed by a "please"

So of course I will run them. My nephew will literally still there for hours watching. Usually followed by a rambling explanation about Thomas and all the over seas named locomotives, none of which I know. 

 

Go on and purchase a B1 you know you want one... I started with 1 and now I have 4 one of which is a BR version, which was given to me by a friend. 

 

Doug 

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, DougN said:

So of course I will run them.

You mean they actually go Doug? I thought they were P4...

[jrg1]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm going to 'fight my corner' here, Al,

 

Normally, I'd agree entirely that distant colours should be more muted (as Tony Gee observes), but there is no aerial or atmospheric perspective present in the Glen Valley at Little Bytham,because the horizon is so close. 

If one squints at the picture, if anything the nearer tones are the lightest. I'm actually higher than the relative position at eye level on the model, so the model's horizon is actually nearer than seen here. 

 

 

I hope this shot illustrates my point. By far the lightest natural tone is the embankment, and I think that's what folk have been comparing my backscene with. Why is it the lightest? Well, the real thing is made mainly of limestone rubble (if anyone thinks the 'model' limestone outcrops are wrong, they might ask themselves the question, 'Where has it come from?'), and the batter is far steeper than anything found naturally. Limestone drains exceptionally well, and it's a summer depiction, so the embankment grass gets less water than the surrounding area, because less is retained. It's thus, more-muted. The foot of the embankment is much more lush, as would be the far side of the railway. 

 

Anyway, the backscene can always be lightened.......

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

A fantastic diorama -everything in its place.    

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

As it happens Tony my 1958 'Observers Book of Railway Locomotives of Britain', pocket size, was my Christmas Present for 1959, when I was 8 years and it was, and is, a treasured possession,  and my older brother's 1955 edition was supplanted.  I still own both and sometimes consult them.

 

I can attest however that a 3 year old will still literally jump for joy at the sight of a train going by.

 

There's no accounting for taste. A line of five or six EMDs in notch 8, lifting 15,000 tons of container freight out of California is to some a truly stunning thing.

 

That said, I nearly bought a B1 today....  the Scottish style with fillets on the running plates.  These things need thought.

 

Disjointed post, apologies.  Better have a cup of tea and think of a new picture. 

 

 

 

 

I think disjointed posts are great fun, Rob,

 

Many of mine ramble on...................... And on................

 

I think it's been accepted now that the 1950s/early-'60s was a time of much greater variety on our railways than, say, in more modern times. Speaking with a friend the other day, who also was a trainspotter at Chester (my home town), we mused at the vast variety of locos we saw. 

 

My first Ian Allan abc Combined Volume was the autumn 1957 edition (an 11th birthday present), which I still possess, but it's rather tatty (it has been for the last 60 years!). I had the 1956 regional ones (not the SR one, obviously), and it's staggering to see the variety. 

 

I'd occasionally view the railways at Chester (illicitly) from a spot adjacent to the goods depot and loco shed at the CLC station, Chester Northgate. It overlooked the main lines out of Chester General heading for the N. Wales coast, the WR lines out to Wrexham, Shrewsbury and beyond, and also the goods-only lines taking the top end of the triangle, going out towards the Wirral. From this vantage point, the only numbers not visible (because of distance, and without binoculars) were of those locos heading trains from Chester to Birkenhead and of those locos heading freight trains on the CLC/GC route across the top end of the other triangle (yes, one triangle on top of another). Totally invisible were those locos heading local trains between Chester and Manchester/Crewe/Whitchurch, which ran into the east end of the General. It was always worth watching some of these, especially running-in turns from Crewe Works. 

 

What a variety to delight the urchin 'spotters' eyes. On the CLC/GC, D11s, N5s, C13s, C14s, B1s, K3s and every variety of ex-GC 2-8-0. On the main lines, apart from the 'Kings' and a few obscure ex-GWR types, every WR loco type could be 'copped'. As for the LMR, I'm sure (apart from the most obscure Scottish types), every type could be seen, including some ancient L&Y 0-6-0s which ended up at Rhyl! And, on a summer Saturday, one never knew what to expect. I never saw a 'Clan' at Chester, nor a 77XXX, but all the other BR Standards were present (except the WD 2-10-0s). 

 

What's the point of this disjointed ramble (or is that tautology?)? To prove an axiomatic point (is that tautology as well?)? Sort of? Not really, just to show how such experiences formed a passion for railways in me which, if anything, has grown down the years. 

 

The 'greatest free show on earth' (thanks Clem) was played out on a stage-set also of fantastic variety. An elevated ex-LNWR signal box controlled all the immediate movements on the main lines, and there was a fantastic array of semaphores, including some lower-quadrant LNWR types. What wonderment! 

 

And, of the scene today? Obviously no CLC/GC system at Chester - everything gone; Northgate Station replaced by another station (for fire engines) and a leisure centre. The main lines are still there, but with almost no sidings, and one certainly cannot board a train for the capital adorned with boards stating 'Paddington, Birmingham, Shrewsbury, Chester & Birkenhead'. 

 

Wonderful days!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

28 minutes ago, jrg1 said:

A fantastic diorama -everything in its place.    

Many thanks,

 

'-everything in its place.'

 

Including Ellen Sparkes' (the daughter of my good friend, The Green Howards) lovely little foreground gardens, complete with washing drying on the line. She made these when she was 11, wanting to 'make something for Tony's railway'. 

 

I'm a very lucky guy.......

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

[Barry O]

No point in having a spotters ABC in my home village. West Hartlepool shed never cleaned a loco..ever! But I did see (and here) Q6, WD, 9F, J27/J26 all on coal fulls (almost volcanic displays seen from loco chimneys when setting off out of the yard) and coal empties. Other than that Met Cam 4 car dmus (I remember the buffet car), EE Type 4s on parcels and on the Colchester train.

We did spot Morayshire one day. That caused a bit of chat as it was LNER lined green..(my colleagues thought it was a new railway company!) And..it was...clean!

Baz

[Headstock]

 

Are we still doing box vans? For those bored by such things, get another hobby! Whizzing out of the paint shop last night is this standard LNER unfitted 9ft wb van. It seems like a lifetime ago that this was constructed, it still awaits three link couplings. There have been a number of kits in the past, but the easiest way to produce one now is currently by cross kitting a modified Parkside body onto a Cambrian underframe. An essential item for LNER/ex LNER layouts.

[APOLLO]

The 'greatest free show on earth'  - How very true. 10 years old and a 10 minute walk to the WCML bridge over the Leeds Liverpool canal, just south of Wigan North Western. We could see the L&Y trains into Wallgate also, but not get the numbers unless one lad had brought his telescope (I'm sure he got many a number wrong !!!!). At around 7pm "The Caledonian" blasted past, always hauled by a "Big D"' (class 40) hauled complete with headboard - time then to go home - oh how we looked forward to summer !!

 

Wigan 1967 Gas works, electric works, west coast main line, brush 4's, black 5's with blue/grey stock, Choice was getting limited. I (attempt) to model this era in OO (not the location though - eastern region for that !!). I think the Calley had gone by now.

 

 

 

 

And the common by 1967 and soon to disappear Brit

 

 

Happy days

 

Brit15

[Tony Wright]

5 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Are we still doing box vans? For those bored by such things, get another hobby! Whizzing out of the paint shop last night is this standard LNER unfitted 9ft wb van. It seems like a lifetime ago that this was constructed, it still awaits three link couplings. There have been a number of kits in the past, but the easiest way to produce one now is currently by cross kitting a modified Parkside body onto a Cambrian underframe. An essential item for LNER/ex LNER layouts.

Lovely work, Andrew (as always).

 

How long did wagons run in service with brakes only on one side? I thought by your period (post-War?), most would have brakes both sides. That said, my knowledge of vans/wagons is sadly-lacking.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[DougN]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

You mean they actually go Doug? I thought they were P4...

Yeah,  may surprise but both my OO and my p4 work!  The OO is the one that the kids want as it has all the sound and pressing the button for the whistles! 

[Headstock]

1 minute ago, Tony Wright said:

Lovely work, Andrew (as always).

 

How long did wagons run in service with brakes only on one side? I thought by your period (post-War?), most would have brakes both sides. That said, my knowledge of vans/wagons is sadly-lacking.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good morning Tony,

 

the issue was with brake leavers on both sides. Brakes on both sides of unfitted wagons were provided when a cross shaft could not be used. For example, if a drop door was provided in the floor of the wagon. BR built thousands of 16 ton mineral wagons with brakes on one side only.

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

What a variety to delight the urchin 'spotters' eyes.

Being born in Birmingham I had a mass of options as a spotter.

Sheds close by at Monument Lane, Bournville, Aston, Saltley and Tyseley. Slightly further away were Bescot, Walsall, Bushbury, Stafford Road, Oxley and Wolverhampton Works. 

Besides New Street and Snow Hill, we Rugby, Nuneaton, Tamworth, Lichfield, Stafford, Crewe, Derby, Banbury, Shrewsbury, Lickey Incline, Worcester, etc all within a pocket money day return. 

To me the bland years were the Corporate Blue era. Variety of locos, coaches and wagons decreased rapidly from around 1964. It started to change with PTEs, Sectorisation and NSE. In the 1980s we had scratch sets of DMUs at Tyseley running in six-car trains with at least three different classes in four or more livery variations. In 1988 I was working on the DC Lines and made notes of the 313 set branding when the Harlequin Line name came in. I came to the conclusion that no two sets were exactly the same.

Early Privatisation was similar in that you could go to a station like Stockport and see at least six different passenger liveries and the three new FOCs in the space of an hour plus a range of ex-BR ones 

[APOLLO]

Box van trains - stick a Brit on front - make em "rock & roll" !!!!

 

 

Don't forget the stickers, new, old, ripped etc. Stickers everywhere !!

 

 

Both Springs Branch 1966. 

 

Brit15

[Buhar]

Six ostensibly similar vans, but a quick peer at the bodywork only seems to show four different types.

 

Alan