Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

27 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi Tony

 

I have just put a note on my own Haymarket 64B thread and 

I hope you do not mind me putting this information on your thread as well as so many railway modellers follow your thread.

 

It’s with great sadness I have just been informed by his family that Norman Saunders of Just Tracks sadly passed away last Friday 11th December.

This is just in case there are modellers who follow your thread who knew him but had not heard the sad news.

 

Regards

 

David

 

 

 

Thanks David,

 

Sad news indeed. Like Tony Gee, I got to know Norman when he was building the trackwork  (for the same layout?), and my elder son, Tom, and another friend were building the baseboards for him to lay the track on, and wiring it up once installed (others helped as well).

 

He was a very fine track-maker and the hobby is considerably poorer for his passing.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Chamby]

10 hours ago, Headstock said:

 

 

Good evening Chamby,

 

The real locomotive wasn't quite so and span. Like most of the LNER/BR green A3's that came to the GC in 1949, 60054 was in appalling external condition. It remained that way until it was sent into works, emerging in April 1950 in BR blue. Unlike the majority of the others, that struggled to improve on the performance of the B1's that they were supposed to replace, 60054 was in good mechanical order. She was part of number one link and for a time and worked the Master Cutler when the two blue meanies (60102 and 60052) were not available.

 

I include an image of 60054 working the Master Cutler on the 23-7-49, Southbound at Chorley Wood. The image was sent to me by the son of H C Casserley, it is a print from the original negative. It is one of two shots, the second being a little more famous as it shows the Bullied tavern car passing the camera and has been featured in a number of publications. The shot taken just before that is this one and features 60054 in all its glorious grime, the Tavern car is just behind the trees.

 

Will it be out with the Citadel muck rust and cinders?

 

I have permission to use the image but please observe copyright.

 

 

 

 

 

Good morning Headstock.  Thanks, as ever, for the additional information.  Indeed I will be weathering 60054 and her stable mates in due course, but as I am still a novice in this art form and want to get it right first time, I intend to build up more competence (and confidence) on more mundane items of rolling stock before attending to prime motive power, so she’ll be shiny for a little while yet.

 

At the moment, 60054 is in bits on the workbench, having just received a Loksound v5 chip from Locoman sounds, hardwired into the locomotive with a twin-speaker installation, front and rear.  Hornby’s A3 chassis provides good space for this install, fortunately: current models provide for a simple ‘plug-in-and-play’ in the tender, but the chassis block also retains sufficient voids for those wanting a more comprehensive installation.  I still have to add working lamps with suitable resistors to give the right level of glow, this is a fiddly job so will probably happen sometime in the next few days, when I feel in the right frame of mind to tackle it.

[Barry Ten]

16 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

 

 

 

and finished my Control Panel which has been in building for at least 4 years!

 

 

 

 

 

All it needs now is Goldfinger, some mobsters, and a big model of Fort Knox.

[MarkC]

5 minutes ago, Barry Ten said:

 

All it needs now is Goldfinger, some mobsters, and a big model of Fort Knox.

Don't forget Oddjob too...

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, MarkC said:

Don't forget Oddjob too...

 

I don't think anyone was thinking of Oddjob when Pussy Galore played by Honor Blackman was in that film.....

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[MarkC]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I don't think anyone was thinking of Oddjob when Pussy Galore played by Honor Blackman was in that film.....

 

 

 

There's always one, eh?

[Headstock]

8 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

Good morning Headstock.  Thanks, as ever, for the additional information.  Indeed I will be weathering 60054 and her stable mates in due course, but as I am still a novice in this art form and want to get it right first time, I intend to build up more competence (and confidence) on more mundane items of rolling stock before attending to prime motive power, so she’ll be shiny for a little while yet.

 

At the moment, 60054 is in bits on the workbench, having just received a Loksound v5 chip from Locoman sounds, hardwired into the locomotive with a twin-speaker installation, front and rear.  Hornby’s A3 chassis provides good space for this install, fortunately: current models provide for a simple ‘plug-in-and-play’ in the tender, but the chassis block also retains sufficient voids for those wanting a more comprehensive installation.  I still have to add working lamps with suitable resistors to give the right level of glow, this is a fiddly job so will probably happen sometime in the next few days, when I feel in the right frame of mind to tackle it.

 

Good evening  Chamby,

 

you would have to look hard to find a Pacific in such condition on a model railway these days, the little loves are far too precious and the owners are the guardians of the precious. 

 

Good on you for having a go. I would work on the principal that you won't get it right first time, so make sure 60054 is fifth or sixth in line after a bit of practice. Such an application of muck requires the same attention to detail as your transfer work and a lot of looking at prototypes for inspiration. Incidentally, 60048 Doncaster was a rather shinny LNER/BR green example for a time, it often crops up north of Leicester, including on the Master Cutler, was it due to the name? Of interest to yourself might be the tender of that particular locomotive, it being the high sided, beaded type, most at Leicester were the GN style. I also have a shot of a beautifully turned out LNER/ BR green Top shed loco, standing at the signal at the bottom of Leicester South goods loop, obviously waiting to go on shed. I've forgotten the name, I shall look it out.

 

I'm afraid sound is not my thing, I find it incongruous  that a  steam loco makes a sound, yet there is no visual pay off. Sound without vision is just plain odd. One of Leicester's clapped out green machines ( I forget loco again) dropped its motion in the London suburbs, if you can't have steam, that's the kind of visual display that could accompany a great big exciting digital banging noise I think.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Headstock
add info

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Headstock said:

 

Good evening  Chamby,

 

you would have to look hard to find a Pacific in such condition on a model railway these days, the little loves are far too precious and the owners are the guardians of the precious. 

 

Good on you for having a go. I would work on the principal that you won't get it right first time, so make sure 60054 is fifth or sixth in line after a bit of practice. Such an application of muck requires the same attention to detail as your transfer work and a lot of looking at prototypes for inspiration. Incidentally, 60048 Doncaster was a rather shinny LNER/BR green example for a time, it often crops up north of Leicester, including on the Master Cutler, was it due to the name? Of interest to yourself might be the tender of that particular locomotive, it being the high sided, beaded type, most at Leicester were the GN style. I also have a shot of a beautifully turned out LNER/ BR green Top shed loco, standing at the signal at the bottom of Leicester South goods loop, obviously waiting to go on shed. I've forgotten the name, I shall look it out.

 

I'm afraid sound is not my thing, I find it incongruous  that a  steam loco makes a sound, yet there is no visual pay off. Sound without vision is just plain odd. One of Leicester's clapped out green machines ( I forget loco again) dropped its motion in the London suburbs, if you can't have steam, that's the kind of visual display that could accompany a great big exciting digital banging noise I think.

Good evening Andrew,

 

'you would have to look hard to find a Pacific in such condition on a model railway these days'

 

Perhaps not as 'obliterated' as in the picture of 60054 you posted, but several of Bytham's Pacifics are a bit grubby. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do take your point (by implication) that many folk are reluctant to weather their latest piece of RTR wonderment (in case it might devalue it?). 

 

I must admit that I'm of the opinion that it would be folly to 'obliterate' the work of a professional painter (which most of Bytham's Pacifics have). All the ones illustrated above are either proprietary painting/lining or my own painting/lining at source. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

 

[65179]

When I see a model A3 in this condition:

 

I almost start to warm to them.  I seem to remember you posting some cracking prototype shots of really filthy A3s on this thread in the past Tony.

 

Simon

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by 65179

[ecgtheow]

On 16/12/2020 at 15:29, jwealleans said:

 

Looks as though I own the same wagon (same number):

 

 

This is a Parkside kit, but any of the bogies mentioned above will do the job.

 

 

 

Many thanks to all who have responded. I will go with the Cambrian bogies as they are 1.piece & should  support this very heavy wagon with less risk of breaking.

 

William

[Paul Cram]

Gramodels do a very nice t one which puts the weight where you need it

https://www.gramodels.co.uk/

 

[Headstock]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Andrew,

 

'you would have to look hard to find a Pacific in such condition on a model railway these days'

 

Perhaps not as 'obliterated' as in the picture of 60054 you posted, but several of Bytham's Pacifics are a bit grubby. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do take your point (by implication) that many folk are reluctant to weather their latest piece of RTR wonderment (in case it might devalue it?). 

 

I must admit that I'm of the opinion that it would be folly to 'obliterate' the work of a professional painter (which most of Bytham's Pacifics have). All the ones illustrated above are either proprietary painting/lining or my own painting/lining at source. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

these things come in waves of fashion. I think that it says more about trends in the hobby than following a particular prototype. Presently, model railways are definitely getting cleaner. Once upon a time, mobile junk piles on scrap lines were all the rage. Both can be a bit lopsided if taken to extremes. The junk pile aesthetic of some years ago, coincided with a plentiful supply of cheap second hand models. It was also an era that saw the introduction of quality but affordable airbrushes and other exciting new weathering products.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Headstock
Remove repeated word

[Leander]

15 hours ago, 65179 said:

When I see a model A3 in this condition:

Or a Standard Class 5 (allegedly) in green livery (thanks Tom F).

Edited December 18, 2020 by Leander
Typo

[Mike 84C]

73068 what stunning weathering, if it was stood on a shed/pit scene I could almost believe it was full sized. About the only thing missing I believe is the ash pan door opening lever which went between the middle & rear LH drivers. The mud/brake block brown verdigree  is about the best I have seen.

[PMP]

On 14/12/2020 at 22:04, jrg1 said:

Please tell us how you got the chevrons perfect.

 

The easy way with transfers

[Tony Wright]

8 hours ago, Leander said:

OPr a Standard Class 5 (allegedly) in green livery (thanks Tom F).

'Perfect weathering' I'd say. 

 

And, exactly how I remember some of these BR Standard Fives on the Paddington-Birkenhead expresses at Chester, in their final years. The last ones appeared in unlined BR green.

 

It was a strange 'time-warp' in a way. We'd had all the GWR types on the trains (apart from the 'Kings'), then the 'Western' diesels replaced them, followed by Brush Type 4s, and then, almost at a stroke, steam reappeared!. Not GWR 4-6-0s, but Standard Fives, 'Mickeys' and even 'Jubs'. I suppose it was due to the Regional changes, and the WR took its latest motive power back. 

 

 

During the last year of the Paddington-Birkenhead through expresses, a Shrewsbury-based Black Five passes through the walls at Chester (the only bit of the ancient city where the railways encroached). Despite my poor slide, if you look closely, in the distance a Brush Type 4 has a mixed freight for the Shrewsbury road. The 'new' on the mundane, and the 'old' on the 'prestigious'. 

 

At that time, every steam loco I saw looked like these.................. (apart from preserved ones). 

 

 

Chester 6A, with just a few months to go before closure. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Regarding Retford's signals, I don't think anyone was building the GNR somersault bracket mentioned earlier; so, I'd go ahead Graham.

 

How long it actually lasted, I've no idea.

 

 

It had certainly gone by 1975 (as had half the yard, too).

 

What I find interesting about this (rather grotty) shot are 'Queen's boards'. They used to be a very tall lattice bracket (as depicted so beautifully on the model), but at some time during the last ten years (prior to my taking this picture) they've been replaced by a much lower plate and angle set of signals - two brackets, instead of one. 

 

A year later, all had gone....................

 

 

[CF MRC]

9 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

The mud/brake block brown verdigree  is about the best I have seen.

Being a pedantic sort, verdigris is a product of copper weathering - it’s basically pale green. 

I do agree it’s atmospheric weathering though. 
 

Tim

[gr.king]

The clues lie in the two parts of the name verdi gris.

[t-b-g]

One of the things with weathering is that the vast majority of colour photos were taken during the last few years of steam, when the vast majority of locos were filthy and on their last legs.

 

The railway scene had changed dramatically between 1957 and 1967 in that respect. It had gone from a time when a good number of passenger locos got at least a bit of a clean to a time when there was virtually no cleaning apart from for the occasional loco fresh from a repair or being made ready for a special. That Standard 4-6-0 screams 1967 at me, which has to be a good thing!

 

To me, good weathering is all about getting that balance right. There were probably no times when every loco was sparkling clean, unless some clever wag wants to point out that they were for about 10 minutes after the first one was built. There were probably no times when every single one was filthy.

 

I see some layouts set in the 1950s, which have locos clearly weathered based on photos from the mid to late 1960s and it looks wrong.

 

I won't name names but there was one loco on Retford that was weathered superbly in 1967 condition, to look as if it was about to fall apart yet at the time of the layout, the loco had only been out of the works a short while. So I was asked to "unweather" it into a less extreme state.

 

One item of weathering that often gets overlooked is signals. Many fine layouts, have them looking as though they are all new and freshly painted. I did mention it to Roy more than once in respect of the Retford signals but he was a bit reluctant to risk messing up such super models!

[Compound2632]

21 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

One of the things with weathering is that the vast majority of colour photos were taken during the last few years of steam, when the vast majority of locos were filthy and on their last legs.

 

My impression from looking at many pre-Grouping - by which I really mean pre-Great War - photos is that the paintwork of locomotives and carriages could become dingy but not really dirty. There are plenty of photos where lining that must have been there doesn't show up, or hardly so (not helped by the red-blindness of the photographic emulsions of the day). This worn-looking paintwork could quite well be the result of very frequent cleaning! (Gradual wearing away of the layers of varnish, down to the lining layer.)

[LNER4479]

... to which (re turn of the century) I would add the tallow effect whereby the polishing of the paintwork was undertaken in a carefully manicured way such that there was a repeated pattern. Some plate camera pictures of that era, showing the proud late Victorian traincrew standing by 'their' loco thus treated are incredible. Oh for a colour camera in those days!

 

Of course, it'd be splattered with oil and muck at the end of the day and they'd have to do it all again!

[t-b-g]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

My impression from looking at many pre-Grouping - by which I really mean pre-Great War - photos is that the paintwork of locomotives and carriages could become dingy but not really dirty. There are plenty of photos where lining that must have been there doesn't show up, or hardly so (not helped by the red-blindness of the photographic emulsions of the day). This worn-looking paintwork could quite well be the result of very frequent cleaning! (Gradual wearing away of the layers of varnish, down to the lining layer.)

 

Quite right. To me, the gradual decline in standards really started during the 1914/18 war and the true "glory days" were just prior to that.

 

Even then, a carriage or loco would be in traffic for a few years before going back into shops and frequent cleaning would dull the finish. You can see it more in the way light reflects off the surfaces more than anything else. Looking at carriages from that period, you often see sparkling clean sides with a dirty roof and a grubby underframe. That combination looks great when done well on a model.

 

Modelling that sort of finish, with a fancy livery affected by a few years of wear and tear but still clean, is an interesting weathering task in itself.

[t-b-g]

1 minute ago, LNER4479 said:

... to which (re turn of the century) I would add the tallow effect whereby the polishing of the paintwork was undertaken in a carefully manicured way such that there was a repeated pattern. Some plate camera pictures of that era, showing the proud late Victorian traincrew standing by 'their' loco thus treated are incredible. Oh for a colour camera in those days!

 

Of course, it'd be splattered with oil and muck at the end of the day and they'd have to do it all again!

 

I don't recall ever seeing anybody try that finish on a model. I am not sure how convincing it would be and I am not brave enough to try!

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

Quite right. To me, the gradual decline in standards really started during the 1914/18 war and the true "glory days" were just prior to that.

 

I'd go a bit further back. The principal English railways that didn't already paint all their locomotives black went over to black for goods engines before the end of Edward VII's reign, in one case with no lining whatsoever. The 1890s were the Golden Age of British railways.