Wright writes.....

[stewartingram]

I remember whitemetal ones, because they actually deformed. However I also had a harder cast metal version.

 

Stewart 

[Dominion]

The American ground throw switch is made by Caboose Industries:

 

http://www.cabooseind.com

 

There are several types but the basis one is very similar to the GEM version only made of Delrin plastic.  There are also models that have an integral SPDT switch for live frogs, etc.

 

Ironically, when I needed one or more for an HO layout I could not find an outlet that had them in stock - the shops were all in Calgary or through Canadian mail order.  Now they have their own on-line shop, see the web site.

I have bought mine directly from Steve who owns and runs the business. I think he took the business over from his father and he has then extended the range.

He is extremely helpful.

I have used several of the different types they make, all very effective.  

Tom

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Phil,

 

I think, long ago on this thread, there was a learned discussion about how steam loco valve gear worked, or it might have been elsewhere. 

 

With regard to its application on small scale railway locomotives, the main visual difference is that the valve spindle pivot is above the front end of the radius rod (am I right?) for outside admission and that the return crank leans towards the rear, both sides. The former item is often covered by massive guides but the latter is most noticeable, especially in motion. It imparts an entirely different look as it moves along to, say, a rebuilt WC/BB/MN compared with a Stanier or a Gresley Pacific, or a BR Standard type. To my eye, the motion looks more exaggerated - it is very distinctive. Of course, in many cases the RTR boys hedge their bets and fix their return cranks forward on one side and backward on the other, the only difference being that one manufacturer does it the opposite side to the other. 

 

Mention has been made of working valve rods on Hornby-Dublo gear. My parents were never well off enough to buy Hornby-Dublo stuff and my brother and I had Tri-ang (our first Princess with no valve gear at all). From latterly photographing any HD steam loco models with valve gear, though the valve rods might have worked, it was in a very bizarre way, especially on the 2-6-4T. If my memory serves, there was a pivot at the top of the expansion link, opposite to the link with the front end of the eccentric rod. As for the A4 valve gear, no piston rods moved on that, in fact the whole thing was awful. Did DORCHESTER or BARNSTAPLE's gear work properly?

 

Regarding A4 valve gear, I've just written a review of an N Gauge A4 in pre-War condition and I can only conclude that the manufacturers believe that the valances cover any valve gear of any kind, so they've left most of it off. Though the combination lever and union link are present, there is no expansion link, eccentric rod or eccentric crank. Though the top end of these bits cannot be seen, the bottom most certainly can. 

 

Golden Age OO gauge A4s 19.jpg

 

I suppose the ultimate in any OO Gauge valve gear representation is that provided by Golden Age, in this case on one of the firm's A4s. Everything is present here, including the middle big end. Note, too, the proper forked joints present. The 2 to 1 gear moves as well. 

 

Golden Age OO gauge A4s 01 cropped.jpg

 

Golden Age OO gauge A4s 03.jpg

 

As I mentioned some little time ago, this is the one I bought, some six years ago. If nothing else, it shows how the layout has come on in that time. Why I bought it I'm not sure now. I never use it; not because of any shortcomings - far from it, it runs superbly. It's just that there's nothing at all of me in this. All I did was earn enough money to buy it. A personal point of view, but, as Coachman has alluded to, this thread is about the personal making of things; just what railway modelling is all about to me. 

 

Finally, and I know you won't mention this, the extra cheque sent to Cancer Research makes the total from the Peterborough loco clinic and other donations over £100.00 now, very much breaching the three-figure barrier because of your generous contribution from the sale of some of your model railway items, added to the donations of others (particular thanks to Robert Carroll who donated separately). It makes me think a little of priorities. Instead of moaning about this or that being wrong or something being too expensive, some might think how lucky they really are. However, I have no room to preach.

 

Thanks once more,

 

Tony. 

Hi Tony,

 

I clicked 'agree' for your Post which I think was an inadequate response on my part.

 

When my father was a boy he had only one toy an airship which his brother wrapped around a lamppost and thus wrecked (we recently discovered that these toys are as rare as hens teeth - collecting such rarities may but satisfying but the flip side to me is that it seems sad when an ancient toy is mint and boxed as that it means that it never got played with). Most Christmases it was a piece of fruit for dad when he was growing up, there wasnt anything else unless the local USAF/Screaming Eagles Airborne based nearby had some spare chocolate or 'candy'. 

 

The GA A4 is superb, and yet, I can fully identify with your comments and feelings about such - the biggest joy of the hobby is meeting challenges, building something and then seeing it running. I thought that my Lilliput A4 was the bees knees at one time, the latter looks very toy-like now.

 

The charity aspect, I have seen both sides of the coin and when - my partner has been poorly - we have gone in and out of various hospitals AND there is always someone worse off and it puts things in perspective. I was having a clear out the other day and came across an article in the ALSRM journal that I was asked to pen on our charity efforts using my dad's H&BLR as a tool to raise funds, hard work but very worthwhile, that little railway has taken on a life of its own. And its good to give back. The H&BLR has encouraged youngsters to have a go and become modellers, one is now a student in engineering, and the railway has raised money for charity, we never envisaged it's multifacetedness (is that a proper use of the word?). Railway modelling is a real leveller and has been there - or should I say the railway modellers who we have had the pleasure of knowing and have known have been there - for us when times have been tough and we have been there for the same too when others have needed us. I cant image what life would be like without the hobby and it's, by and large, friendly participants.

 

Its a wonderful hobby and I am grateful to those honourable fellows who encouraged me to have a go and/or develop my skills - I hope that I have, over the years passed such onto others too - very rewarding. 

 

Even when times are hard, in this country, we are not, thank goodness, living in muddy huts and/or drinking out of muddy puddles.

 

Kindest regards,

 

M.

Edited November 3, 2016 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Mallard60022]

Just a bit of fun before the Wolverhampton Show............................

A. Busonbridge Esq.

[Tony Wright]

A good fit to the new V2 chassis which is almost i.d fittings /shape as the old split type.

 

 

 

IMG_1 v2.jpg

 

 

 

The old/current Bachmann  V2 body doesn't look that bad with a make over.

 

1 cor9 IMG_8610.jpg

Splendid work as always, Mick. My compliments. 

 

I take it the top pictures is of one of Graeme's V2 bodies which you have completed/painted? 

 

Your repainting of the old Bachmann V2 has certainly improved it. However, have you changed the dome and the Cartazzi truck? 

 

 

 

This is the Bachmann V2 I mentioned earlier, where I (eventually) discarded the body. I did change the dome and made a replacement Comet chassis, renumbered it and weathered it. However, take a close look, please. What I couldn't 'tolerate' (alongside my other eight V2s built from Jamieson, Nu-Cast, Crownline and King - not Pro-Scale!) was the too-fat boiler, the armoured cab, the wrong taper on the boiler and the lack of rearward slope to the firebox top, not to mention the in-fill between the boiler base and footplate. Or, the wrong position of the front lamp irons, the buffers sticking out far too much and the over-bulbous smokebox door. Without major hacking and butchery, to me, it just wouldn't do. 

 

 

That others have been happy with the Bachmann V2 there's no doubt. Here's one on Ackthorpe, unaltered (as far as I know) apart from a little weathering.

 

 

Or even on such a fine layout as the Gresley Beat (which is at Spalding next weekend I believe). This one, obviously, has been repainted, though other mods might have been made as well. 

 

I suppose if the Bachmann V2 is the only type one has, then that might be all right, especially now it has a very fine chassis. It's just that, as I say, compared with the alternatives, it's just 'all wrong'. Wrong enough for Bachmann to be producing a new body for it. Then, on its new chassis, it'll be a winner, no doubt. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Tony Wright

[micklner]

Splendid work as always, Mick. My compliments. 

 

I take it the top pictures is of one of Graeme's V2 bodies which you have completed/painted? 

 

Your repainting of the old Bachmann V2 has certainly improved it. However, have you changed the dome and the Cartazzi truck? 

 

V2 06.jpg

 

V2 07.jpg

 

This is the Bachmann V2 I mentioned earlier, where I (eventually) discarded the body. I did change the dome and made a replacement Comet chassis, renumbered it and weathered it. However, take a close look, please. What I couldn't 'tolerate' (alongside my other eight V2s built from Jamieson, Nu-Cast, Crownline and King - not Pro-Scale!) was the too-fat boiler, the armoured cab, the wrong taper on the boiler and the lack of rearward slope to the firebox top, not to mention the in-fill between the boiler base and footplate. Or, the wrong position of the front lamp irons, the buffers sticking out far too much and the over-bulbous smokebox door. Without major hacking and butchery, to me, it just wouldn't do. 

 

Ackthorpe 02.jpg

 

That others have been happy with the Bachmann V2 there's no doubt. Here's one on Ackthorpe, unaltered (as far as I know) apart from a little weathering.

 

11 V2 under coaler.jpg

 

Or even on such a fine layout as the Gresley Beat (which is at Spalding next weekend I believe). This one, obviously, has been repainted, though other mods might have been made as well. 

 

I suppose if the Bachmann V2 is the only type one has, then that might be all right, especially now it has a very fine chassis. It's just that, as I say, compared with the alternatives, it's just 'all wrong'. Wrong enough for Bachmann to be producing a new body for it. Then, on its new chassis, it'll be a winner, no doubt. 

 

   Picture No 1 is the King resin body added to the new type chassis

   Picture No2 Green Arrow complete rub down of the awful moulding lines , new Streamlined dome, smokebox dart and handrails. Painted and re lined and numbers (which have been straightened after seeing this photo!  ) It also sits on the new type chassis inc their new Cartazzi truck. That was as far as I could improve the Bachmann body.

 

edit 

Photo in the plastic so to speak , this shows a few other additions to the body prior to painting.

 

Edited November 4, 2016 by micklner

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tony,

 

I clicked 'agree' for your Post which I think was an inadequate response on my part.

 

When my father was a boy he had only one toy an airship which his brother wrapped around a lamppost and thus wrecked (we recently discovered that these toys are as rare as hens teeth - collecting such rarities may but satisfying but the flip side to me is that it seems sad when an ancient toy is mint and boxed as that it means that it never got played with). Most Christmases it was a piece of fruit for dad when he was growing up, there wasnt anything else unless the local USAF/Screaming Eagles Airborne based nearby had some spare chocolate or 'candy'. 

 

The GA A4 is superb, and yet, I can fully identify with your comments and feelings about such - the biggest joy of the hobby is meeting challenges, building something and then seeing it running. I thought that my Lilliput A4 was the bees knees at one time, the latter looks very toy-like now.

 

The charity aspect, I have seen both sides of the coin and when - my partner has been poorly - we have gone in and out of various hospitals AND there is always someone worse off and it puts things in perspective. I was having a clear out the other day and came across an article in the ALSRM journal that I was asked to pen on our charity efforts using my dad's H&BLR as a tool to raise funds, hard work but very worthwhile, that little railway has taken on a life of its own. And its good to give back. The H&BLR has encouraged youngsters to have a go and become modellers, one is now a student in engineering, and the railway has raised money for charity, we never envisaged it's multifacetedness (is that a proper use of the word?). Railway modelling is a real leveller and has been there - or should I say the railway modellers who we have had the pleasure of knowing and have known have been there - for us when times have been tough and we have been there for the same too when others have needed us. I cant image what life would be like without the hobby and it's, by and large, friendly participants.

 

Its a wonderful hobby and I am grateful to those honourable fellows who encouraged me to have a go and/or develop my skills - I hope that I have, over the years passed such onto others too - very rewarding. 

 

Even when times are hard, in this country, we are not, thank goodness, living in muddy huts and/or drinking out of muddy puddles.

 

Kindest regards,

 

M.

Thank you ever so much,

 

My hitting the 'thank you' button was just as an inadequate response. 

 

Though this thread is certainly tangential (and I'm delighted it is) it still comes back to the central theme of making things for oneself, however humble. 

 

There are those who 'project manage' remarkably good layouts, and as visual inspirations they can be without equal. We must be grateful that models/layouts like this are created, for they keep top professional model-makers in work and we can see the results of their excellence. However, and I come back to what you stated in your post, nothing can beat the 'joy' of seeing something one has made for oneself either running round or standing in its place on a layout - a personal creation, which, without getting over-sentimental, is priceless. In my view, no amount of commissioned work, however good, can beat that feeling. My view, of course, and a personal one.

 

Regarding charities. It's restored my faith in human spirit by seeing how generous some folk are. All I did at Peterborough to one loco was to nip off the outside steampipes and clean up the footplate and smokebox, to turn a Hunt into a Shire (or, at least, part of the way). Ten minutes' work? Yet, the owner (thanks Cliff), donated £10.00 - a pound a minute! I must admit to being a bit remiss in posting off the final cheque to CR - the last loco went off to Australia two days ago, and when payment arrives that completes it. 

 

In conversation with a dear old friend, who is now a minister, I mentioned this 'work' I was doing on behalf of widows/charities, saying it wasn't in the least bit altruistic but it helped me out of 'the pits'. 'Ah', said he, 'Who puts those ideas of helping others into your head?' 'Just me', said I, perhaps pompously. 'Not at all, just think about it.' I respect my friend greatly and he has been a stalwart in my times of trouble, but, because of my being an aetheist, I find that a bit of superstitious 'twaddle'. Supposing I'd have knicked all a widow's models instead. 'Not me fault, M'lud, old Nick put dem forts in me 'ead'. Anyway, whatever thoughts might enter my head (and many are really odd!), it's me who put them there and is entirely responsible for them, right, or in many cases, wrong.   

 

I'd better get back to making models!

 

Finally, I found out this morning that Paul Anderson had died. He died the day before his final work, a quite splendid book on King's Cross, published by Irwell, was released and he never saw it. Though I didn't know him all that well (I objected to his smoking at a meal in Edinburgh the day before a book-launch in 2003, and he went off in disgust and got bladdered), I respected his qualities as an author indeed. The world is poorer for his passing. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Tony Wright

[Mallard60022]

I must have seen V2s on the real railway as my note books and I.A. ABC confirms this. However I can not remember actually seeing one, even at Kings Cross. What I do remember is watching Green Arrow, just before it was taken off main line service, climbing and curving around from Grove Road Crossing and Gamston Bank, going south. It looked surprisingly small but oh what a lovely sound.

Sadly I have no evidence of one working through Seaton Junction in the late 50s or early 60s, however I could just stretch to the early/mid 50s when some possibly did; (Packets withdrawn after explosive incident with middle axle at Crewkerne).

See the nearest first two awning supports are different; demolished by bits of loco brake gear as it passed at over 70mph and in the process of breaking up.

Phil

Edited November 4, 2016 by Mallard60022

[Porcy Mane]

I've just had a chance to catch up on the thread.

 

It's been interesting to see the photos and different methods of modelling the V2. So excuse the hijack but I thought all the assembled might like to see a couple of videos of an old beat up V2 working on the North end of the big train set.  

Both videos are posted with the permissions of the layout and loco owners.

 

 

P

 

[Mallard60022]

Light freight my ####    .   I got to 30 + wagons before the L.E. frightened me and I lost count 

A. Bacus

[coachmann]

Think I saw 88 wagons but that passing injun b*ggered up the count.

Edited November 5, 2016 by coachmann

[Headstock]

I counted to 96 sheep but then dozed off. The bogie bolsters look somewhat overloaded me thinks. On the subject of V2's, I have a Comet chassis and Crownline tender combo ready to rock and roll, but without a body (sigh). All the options I have looked at have inaccuracies of one form or another. I'm thinking of mounting a rejigged Hornby A3 boiler on a Bachmann running board. The cab on the Bachmann loco looks a bit suspicious around the spectacle plate, and I am not certain about the width of the running board. Is the Finny kit the only one to get these beautiful locomotives right? Any suggestions would be welcome.

[Clive Mortimore]

All those fitted wagons running as unfitted. The number of times you see this with model railways, where possible the train should be arranged so that the loco has as much assistance in stopping as can be applied by arranging all the fitted wagons at the front behind the engine. This was generally applied even if the train was classed as an unfitted train. The exceptions being where a section of the train would be dropped off to keep shunting to a minimum. Class K (or class 9) trains would have fitted wagons (running as unfitted) dotted all over the place so they could drop them off as the train went from station to station.

[t-b-g]

All those fitted wagons running as unfitted. The number of times you see this with model railways, where possible the train should be arranged so that the loco has as much assistance in stopping as can be applied by arranging all the fitted wagons at the front behind the engine. This was generally applied even if the train was classed as an unfitted train. The exceptions being where a section of the train would be dropped off to keep shunting to a minimum. Class K (or class 9) trains would have fitted wagons (running as unfitted) dotted all over the place so they could drop them off as the train went from station to station.

 

If you look again, you will see an unfitted brake van part way along. It is two trains coupled together. The leading freight has a fitted head and the rear one is fully fitted. I am sure that they were coupled together purely for testing the haulage capacity of the loco and I can confirm that rake of wagons is not run as a prototypical train on the layout normally.

Edited November 5, 2016 by t-b-g

[Headstock]

I have a copy of the loadings/braking for the Annesley Woodford runners. From memory, V2's could take about forty or fifty unfitted and loaded wagons running as class F*. On Leicester we  refer to them in the timetable as F stars, the asterisk referred to the special speed dispensation applying to the service. Incidentally, the pickup goods would often run as F* between Leicester and Nottingham, just to keep out of the way.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Headstock

[robertcwp]

I've just had a chance to catch up on the thread.

 

It's been interesting to see the photos and different methods of modelling the V2. So excuse the hijack but I thought all the assembled might like to see a couple of videos of an old beat up V2 working on the North end of the big train set.  

Both videos are posted with the permissions of the layout and loco owners.

 

 

P

What was the origin of the V2 on 'Retford'?

[Headstock]

I've just had a chance to catch up on the thread.

 

It's been interesting to see the photos and different methods of modelling the V2. So excuse the hijack but I thought all the assembled might like to see a couple of videos of an old beat up V2 working on the North end of the big train set.  

Both videos are posted with the permissions of the layout and loco owners.

 

 

P

 

The loco looks rather smart rather than beat up, is kit built, and what's its number?

[Daddyman]

Is the Finny kit the only one to get these beautiful locomotives right? Any suggestions would be welcome.

That's the conclusion I've come to - got one at Scaleforum. Should have something to show in 350 hours' time....

The Bachmann cab is pretty awful - wrong shape windows and spectacles and over-thick plastic. The footplate isn't worth keeping - it doesn't widen at the cab and the definition of the footplate edge proper is very poor. There's no detail worth keeping on the body as a whole - very crude mouldings all round. I can't think of another model as bad. No disrespect to Mick here - he's made the best job of it possible. 

I tried mating a Hornby A3 boiler to a modified A4 cab, but it's very difficult to get a datum to cut the boiler to the right shape where it meets the cab. Finney does it for you. 

 

EDIT: make that 353 hours - it'll take me 3 hours to work out the shape of the shovel-rim smoke deflector. 

Edited November 5, 2016 by Daddyman

[Clive Mortimore]

If you look again, you will see an unfitted brake van part way along. It is two trains coupled together. The leading freight has a fitted head and the rear one is fully fitted. I am sure that they were coupled together purely for testing the haulage capacity of the loco and I can confirm that rake of wagons is not run as a prototypical train on the layout normally.

Hi Tony

 

My comment was more general. The formation of freight trains is bottom of the league when it comes to accuracy on many a model railway.

[Headstock]

That's the conclusion I've come to - got one at Scaleforum. Should have something to show in 350 hours' time....

The Bachmann cab is pretty awful - wrong shape windows and spectacles and over-thick plastic. The footplate isn't worth keeping - it doesn't widen at the cab and the definition of the footplate edge proper is very poor. There's no detail worth keeping on the body as a whole - very crude mouldings all round. I can't think of another model as bad. No disrespect to Mick here - he's made the best job of it possible. 

I tried mating a Hornby A3 boiler to a modified A4 cab, but it's very difficult to get a datum to cut the boiler to the right shape where it meets the cab. Finney does it for you. 

 

EDIT: make that 353 hours - it'll take me 3 hours to work out the shape of the shovel-rim smoke deflector. 

 

Interesting that you mention that the running board doesn't widen at the cab, perhaps it is more that it doesn't go narrower alongside the boiler and towards the front platform, the whole thing looks too wide to my eye. As good looking as the Finney kit is, I want to put the Comet/Crownline tender and Chassis to good use even if I have to etch my own parts.

[Arthur]

 

 

 

 

The bogie bolsters look somewhat overloaded me thinks.

 

 

Certainly not in terms of weight. Just guesstimating from the video; 20" o.d. steel pipe with a typical sidewall thickness of .322" weighs around 80lbs per foot, a 30' length therefore 2400lbs or a little over a ton. Nine lengths per wagon so around 10 tons. When you carry large diameter thin walled pipe you carry a lot or air too.

 

 

As for loading, so long as the lowest row is prevented from spreading, the upper rows sit nicely in the 'valleys' and once well chained or strapped down it's going nowhere.

 

The biggest issue loading steel pipe is the possibility of the load sliding forwards under heavy braking (rapid deceleration) but that is a much bigger issue on road vehicles than on rail.

 

In my HGV days many years ago I worked for a steel tube stockholder and we always ensured that the load was well chained down and hard up against the headboard. If given room and it did start to move forwards, it took some stopping, sometimes with fatal consequences.

 

 

.

[Headstock]

Certainly not in terms of weight. Just guesstimating from the video; 20" o.d. steel pipe with a typical sidewall thickness of .322" weighs around 80lbs per foot, a 30' length therefore 2400lbs or a little over a ton. Nine lengths per wagon so around 10 tons. When you carry large diameter thin walled pipe you carry a lot or air too.

 

 

As for loading, so long as the lowest row is prevented from spreading, the upper rows sit nicely in the 'valleys' and once well chained or strapped down it's going nowhere.

 

The biggest issue loading steel pipe is the possibility of the load sliding forwards under heavy braking (rapid deceleration) but that is a much bigger issue on road vehicles than on rail.

 

In my HGV days many years ago I worked for a steel tube stockholder and we always ensured that the load was well chained down and hard up against the headboard. If given room and it did start to move forwards, it took some stopping, sometimes with fatal consequences.

 

 

.

 

A quickie before leaving the house. To clarify, the tubes, appear to be overhanging both ends of the bogie bolster. It is my understanding that they should overhang one end only, in addition, the overhang should be chained free of the wagon.

[The Stationmaster]

All those fitted wagons running as unfitted. The number of times you see this with model railways, where possible the train should be arranged so that the loco has as much assistance in stopping as can be applied by arranging all the fitted wagons at the front behind the engine. This was generally applied even if the train was classed as an unfitted train. The exceptions being where a section of the train would be dropped off to keep shunting to a minimum. Class K (or class 9) trains would have fitted wagons (running as unfitted) dotted all over the place so they could drop them off as the train went from station to station.

 

The main assistance in stopping, and particularly braking down gradients, came from handbrakes. Going in between to bag up vac pipes was a dirty and dangerous job which was far from popular with yard staff and thus never done if it could be avoided.  It only really mattered on Class C, D, & E trains - on the lower classes of train nobody would bother to do it if it wasn't required and the marshalling Instructions of course made no reference to vac fitted wagons.  Things changed enormously when diesels came in and more train brake power was required than had been the case in steam days and of course there were by then increasing numbers of fitted wagons about anyway.

 

I realise the train behind that V2 is doubled but there were freights running on the ECML back in steam days just as long as that one with no fitted wagons connected to the engine at all.

[The Stationmaster]

A quickie before leaving the house. To clarify, the tubes, appear to be overhanging both ends of the bogie bolster. It is my understanding that they should overhang one end only, in addition, the overhang should be chained free of the wagon.

It depended on the length of the items being conveyed and for longer stuff the overhang was equalised at the two ends of the wagon and hence two match wagons/runners/check wagons (or whatever other names were used for them) would be required.

[Merfyn Jones]

I am pretty sure those point levers were S&B originally. They were painted light grey. For some reason they became part of GEM's range, though I am not sure if it was under George Mellor or after Roy Dock took over. GEM did not have a spraying facility and so they could only be marketing them on behalf of another person or company.

 

We had them in the GEM range from well before I was there (1968) and they had come from the old S&B or S&D range which was acquired and included other items as well. I recall assembling them and packing them after they had been sprayed. Yes we had a spray gun but not as you knew it, more like the sort to underseal the car chassis.

One of George's best selling items.

Merf.