Wright writes.....

[jwealleans]

There's a sharper picture in Plate 40 of British Railways Non-passenger Rolling Stock by Geoff Gamble.  Still no dynamo or batteries visible, though there are some bogie steps which I don't recall noticing before.

[Tony Teague]

Tony, I think there is a picture of your CCT in David Larkin's 'BR Parcels & Passenger-Rated Stock; Part 1" pub. Kestrel - on p.65 - this shows 5 ventilators on the roof but but still no sign of dynamo detail.

As I am not of the LNER persuasion, forgive me if I have picked a picture of a different diagram vehicle! (Larkin does not give the diagram number).

 

Best wishes

 

Tony

[Flood]

The photo in Larkin, BR General Parcels Rolling Stock (1978) shows a clear space through all the trusses suggesting no battery boxes.

 

So long as the vents are in matching pairs there are five per side, the nearest one in the picture shown in the book above has been brushed out in error. Five vents are shown in both British Railway Non-Passenger Rolling Stock by G. Gamble (1998) and Larkin, BR Parcels and Passenger-Rated Stock Vol 1 (2014). Slowcomo has correctly identified this vehicle.

 

The extra long CCT stock built by BR had no electric lighting, battery boxes or dynamo although those built for the LNER originally had oil lamps. There is a photo on flickr of E1313E from R W Carroll, one of the BR built ones, showing no sign of the large circular vents on the roof. Other photos from Paul Bartlett also suggest this.

 

Finally the hand brake handle would seem to be always to the left side on opposing corners. Unless all three of the photos I have are from the same side.

 

Graham H

Edited December 11, 2016 by Flood

[Headstock]

Thanks Andrew,

 

I'll investigate that. 

 

I'd be surprised if there wasn't any electric lighting in the CCT. If there were, then a dynamo and electric lighting would be necessary, wouldn't they?  

 

Good morning Tony,

 

a good question, I couldn't say for sure. The familiar long wheelbase CCT of 1939 doesn't have a dynamo or a battery box on the drawing. There is a family resemblance between the two types of CCT, although I wouldn't just extrapolate one from another. The long wheelbase version has two rows of ventilators on the roof . I'm sure that the Isinglass drawing would clarify matters. Many of the kit built versions that I have seen are running around without ventilators, yours may end up as a more accurate representation of the prototype.

 

The train you are modeling reminds me very much of the late night Marylebone York parcels. It was composed exclusively of non-gangway bogie vans, BZ's, BY's and van fits, do you have any photographs of your own train? A final question if I may, is the kit you are building still available?

Edited December 11, 2016 by Headstock

[BMacdermott]

Hello Tony

 

From other photos, your S&D 7F is 53809. Nos.53808 and 53809 went to Barry, but 53807 went to Cashmore of Newport and was taken into the yard there on 3/5/65.

 

Incidentally, if the choice had been between 53807 and 53808 the answer would have been easy; 53807 had a unique smokebox saddle.

 

I can't seem to load a link, so will email you directly with it.

 

Regards

 

Brian (with thanks to my friend Richard Strange, Secretary of the Steam Railway Research Society for confirming the date and location for 53807.)

[billbedford]

I'd be surprised if there wasn't any electric lighting in the CCT. If there were, then a dynamo and electric lighting would be necessary, wouldn't they?  

 

 

Why would there need to be lights i a CCT? it wasn't as if they carried passengers who wish to read at night.

[Flood]

There are some photos available on Paul Bartlett's site of the CCT(E) as below:

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerparcels/h9d5a77c#h449cb5f

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerparcels/h9d5a77c#h10d5191b

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerparcels/h9d5a77c#h1837a122

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerparcels/h9d5a77c#h115f034b

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerparcels/h9d5a77c#h9d5a77c

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerparcels/h9d5a77c#h1164a099

 

The final two photos may suggest that oil lighting was originally fitted.

 

Graham H

[Tony Wright]

Good morning Tony,

 

a good question, I couldn't say for sure. The familiar long wheelbase CCT of 1939 doesn't have a dynamo or a battery box on the drawing. There is a family resemblance between the two types of CCT, although I wouldn't just extrapolate one from another. The long wheelbase version has two rows of ventilators on the roof . I'm sure that the Isinglass drawing would clarify matters. Many of the kit built versions that I have seen are running around without ventilators, yours may end up as a more accurate representation of the prototype.

 

The train you are modeling reminds me very much of the late night Marylebone York parcels. It was composed exclusively of non-gangway bogie vans, BZ's, BY's and van fits, do you have any photographs of your own train? A final question if I may, is the kit you are building still available?

Good morning Andrew,

 

 

The train hauled by the K3 is 'typical' of the parcels/empty stock trains one might see pictures of from the period on the ECML. It's made up from kits and modified RTR items and is my work, Larry Goddard's (via Derek Lawrence), Rob Davey's and John Houlden's. The picture was taken before the platform buildings and footbridge were installed on LB. In many ways, this shot shows my lococentricity, because I took much more time over the K3 than its train. It's one of the few K3s still running in BR days which still towed a GNR tender. It's a real mix consisting of a Bachmann K3 boiler/footplate (the former converted to RH-drive), SE Finecast chassis, SE Finecast cab and a London Road Models tender. I did the lot on this one, including making it, painting it, lining/lettering it and weathering it. 

 

I have several non-passenger train formations from BR's own documents, but have used prototype pictures more. Many of these don't appear as the same in BR's documents from the period. Were these made up as required? In one shot I have, taken near York in the early-'60s, there is a gleaming Pullman car in the train's consist, along with some rather shabby four-wheeled and bogie parcels stock. On the cover of North Eastern Main Line Steam, Bradford Barton, there is a shot of ISINGLASS hauling a quite splendid empty stock train including a goods brake van, ex-LMS, ex-SR, ex-LNER and BR four-wheeled and bogie non-passenger stock, comprising nine vehicles. Nothing in my BR documents lists a set such as this. So, anything goes as required? 

 

In answer to your final question, I have no idea if the kit is still available. It's shown as kit RC 127 on the instructions. If it is available, I recommend it. 

Edited December 11, 2016 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

Why would there need to be lights i a CCT? it wasn't as if they carried passengers who wish to read at night.

Probably not in that role, Bill. 

 

However, CCTs were not just used to carry road vehicles. They were used for carrying parcels/packets as well (as I know from my days loading such vehicles at this time of year as a casual worker for the PO on Chester General in the mid-late'60s during my time at art school or teacher training). Most vehicles seemed to be lit (they were not all GPO vehicles) apart from, on one occasion, late at night, I recall scrambling around in the Stygian gloom of a four-wheeled van of some description loading hundreds of parcels/packets (with colleagues). It was attached (along with another van) to a DMU heading for Manchester, the loading areas in that four-car set being full to bursting. 

 

Do many folk model such curiosities?

Edited December 11, 2016 by Tony Wright

[jwealleans]

The familiar long wheelbase CCT of 1939 doesn't have a dynamo or a battery box on the drawing.

The Long CCT had oil lamps down the centreline of the roof. The plugs in the top of the holes are shown on the drawing in the 'Historic Carriage Drawings' book, Vol. 3. I made them using discs of thin plastikard punched out with a hole punch.

 

 

Now we've gone into this, I shall have to revisit mine. If you Google 'LNER D7 bogie CCT', the picture which comes up is of mine, which has neither vents nor oil lamp tops.

 

Matt Chivers used to offer this kit after Roger retired, but I don't believe any of the brass range is presently available. The plastic kits are. I can't recommend those highly enough, they're by quite some way the best I've ever built.

Edited July 11, 2018 by jwealleans

[Headstock]

Good morning Andrew,

 

MRJ 17 A4 and K3.jpg

 

The train hauled by the K3 is 'typical' of the parcels/empty stock trains one might see pictures of from the period on the ECML. It's made up from kits and modified RTR items and is my work, Larry Goddard's (via Derek Lawrence), Rob Davey's and John Houlden's. The picture was taken before the platform buildings and footbridge were installed on LB. In many ways, this shot shows my lococentricity, because I took much more time over the K3 than its train. It's one of the few K3s still running in BR days which still towed a GNR tender. It's a real mix consisting of a Bachmann K3 boiler/footplate (the former converted to RH-drive), SE Finecast chassis, SE Finecast cab and a London Road Models tender. I did the lot on this one, including making it, painting it, lining/lettering it and weathering it. 

 

I have several non-passenger train formations from BR's own documents, but have used prototype pictures more. Many of these don't appear as the same in BR's documents from the period. Were these made up as required? In one shot I have, taken near York in the early-'60s, there is a gleaming Pullman car in the train's consist, along with some rather shabby four-wheeled and bogie parcels stock. On the cover of North Eastern Main Line Steam, Bradford Barton, there is a shot of ISINGLASS hauling a quite splendid empty stock train including a goods brake van, ex-LMS, ex-SR, ex-LNER and BR four-wheeled and bogie non-passenger stock, comprising nine vehicles. Nothing in my BR documents lists a set such as this. So, anything goes as required? 

 

In answer to your final question, I have no idea if the kit is still available. It's shown as kit RC 127 on the instructions. If it is available, I recommend it. 

 

Thanks for posting the photograph, your train looks great. I very much like the mix and match approach used on the K3 to achieve the finished result. The last chassis that my Father was working on was the SE finecast K3, sadly, he never completed the locomotive. It has a full set of working 2 to 1 leaves at the front end. Currently, it is carefully packed away but It gets a regular run just to keep in nice and sweat, its time will come.

 

The workings of 'parcels stock' is an incredibly complicated subject. Modelers would like to think that anything goes, however, each individual vehicle had to be accounted for and somebody was in charge of controlling what were often extremely complicated workings. It is nice to see you modeling vehicles such as the bogie CCT and the four wheel CCT from further up the thread. Despite the mix and match approach favored by many modelers, it is surprising how many parcels trains look identical in their makeup from layout to layout.

 

My own approach is to try and find out what the was being carried by individual vehicles. The CWN's are very useful in that they will give specific instructions about what is required. With photographs, it is helpful to identify a particular working so that complete ECS trains can be removed from the equation. Would the average caption writer be able to determine an ECS from a parcels service? In my own modeling time period and location parcels trains were rare. The vast majority of this kind of traffic involved passenger trains of one type or another. This could mean just one vehicle being conveyed by an ordinary passenger train or ten bogie vans or more as part of an express.

 

The inclusion of the Pullman car in a formation you mention is interesting. It will be an ECS movement but if it had been an ordinary carriage or two, it may indicate that this is service available to the general public. A careful examination of the headcode will then be required. Alternatively, such carriages may be present purely for use by railway staff. One interesting movement I recently came across was the conveyance of an RU on a Leeds Kings Cross parcels train. The inclusion of this carriage would make the train readily identifiable in photographs. Without recourse to the CWN a viewer would be unaware that this was a daily occurrence. The RU worked north to Leeds, providing a catering service on an express and returned south as an ECS as part of the parcels train.

[Mallard60022]

Matt Chivers used to offer this kit after Roger retired, but I don't believe any of the brass range is presently available. The plastic kits are. I can't recommend those highly enough, they're by quite some way the best I've ever built.

I can confirm that the wagons are really lovely to build. I have actually completed one in less than 20 minutes, not including painting. Small range but beautifully moulded.

Phil

[Enterprisingwestern]

Small range but beautifully moulded.

 

 

A JA rererence Phil?

 

Mike.

[Mallard60022]

A JA rererence Phil?

 

Mike.

Ohhhh, you are awful, but I like you..........................................

Perks.

[Tony Wright]

The Long CCT had oil lamps down the centreline of the roof. The plugs in the top of the holes are shown on the drawing in the 'Historic Carriage Drawings' book, Vol. 3. I made them using discs of thin plastikard punched out with a hole punch.

 

 

Now we've gone into this, I shall have to revisit mine. If you Google 'LNER D7 bogie CCT', the picture which comes up is of mine, which has neither vents nor oil lamp tops.

 

Matt Chivers used to offer this kit after Roger retired, but I don't believe any of the brass range is presently available. The plastic kits are. I can't recommend those highly enough, they're by quite some way the best I've ever built.

Thanks as usual Jonathan,

 

 

 

Are these the same or similar CCTs? 

 

The top one was built, painted and weathered by Rob Davey from a Parkside kit. I assume there should be those 'discs' on the roof and the above-door rainstrips. I like his idea of replicating a weathered canvas roof to a vehicle - the softest lavatory paper, stuck down with dilute PVA and painted when dry. The bottom one is Hornby, weathered by Rob. 

 

It's not just the RTR locos which are taking over from kit-built stuff. Modern RTR wagons are quite brilliant as well. However, such is the variety of wagons that no RTR manufacturer is ever going to do more than scratch the surface. 

Edited December 11, 2016 by Tony Wright

[Mallard60022]

"One interesting movement I recently came across was the conveyance of an RU on a Leeds Kings Cross parcels train. The inclusion of this carriage would make the train readily identifiable in photographs. Without recourse to the CWN a viewer would be unaware that this was a daily occurrence. The RU worked north to Leeds, providing a catering service on an express and returned south as an ECS as part of the parcels train".

 

Bit OT perhaps but there could possibly be a BR WR modeller that lurks on here and this might be of interest. I have found a train working into Cornwall on the WR (Summer 1957 ) that consisted entirely of catering coaches ECS. That would be quite expensive to replicate as there are few decent RTR coaches of this type that would be suitable for that era.

Fascinating looking at carriage WTTs.

Phil

[chrisf]

 

"One interesting movement I recently came across was the conveyance of an RU on a Leeds Kings Cross parcels train. The inclusion of this carriage would make the train readily identifiable in photographs. Without recourse to the CWN a viewer would be unaware that this was a daily occurrence. The RU worked north to Leeds, providing a catering service on an express and returned south as an ECS as part of the parcels train".

 

Bit OT perhaps but there could possibly be a BR WR modeller that lurks on here and this might be of interest. I have found a train working into Cornwall on the WR (Summer 1957 ) that consisted entirely of catering coaches ECS. That would be quite expensive to replicate as there are few decent RTR coaches of this type that would be suitable for that era.

Fascinating looking at carriage WTTs.

Phil

 

 

Ah, the Empty Diners, truly a legend.  During the summer timetable it would leave Paddington at 12.5 pm for Truro.  It had left Old Oak Cpommon at 10.5 am and spent the rest of  the morning in Platform 4 being loaded with provisions, though it stopped at Exeter for the restaurant cars to be gassed.  In 1961 it was booked to be formed as follows:

 

BSK with gangway adaptors, lavatory accommodation specified [which shows how the WR tended to live in the past since it must have been a long time since a BSK did not have a bog].  Destination Truro, no booked return working though I expect it came in handy for something

Mk 1 Kitchen First for St Ives. One of W301-5, formed with a Second Dining Saloon [which had spent the week in the West Country] in the 9.20 am St Ives - Paddington

Mk 1 Kitchen First and Second Dining Saloon for Newquay, formed in the 10.0 am Newquay - Paddington

Mk 1 Kitchen First and Second Dining Saloon for Newquay, formed in the 12.30 pm Newquay - Paddington

Ex-GWR dining car and brake second for Newquay, formed in the 11.15 am Newquay - Wolverhampton

Ex-GWR dining car for Plymouth, where it was added to the 8.15 am Perranporth - Paddington 

 

I'm not sure when this working ended but I somehow think that Dr Beeching would have queried it.

 

Chris

[Flood]

Thanks as usual Jonathan,

 

Rolling stock 09.jpg

 

Rolling Stock 10.jpg

 

Are these the same or similar CCTs? 

 

The top one was built, painted and weathered by Rob Davey from a Parkside kit. I assume there should be those 'discs' on the roof and the above-door rainstrips. I like his idea of replicating a weathered canvas roof to a vehicle - the softest lavatory paper, stuck down with dilute PVA and painted when dry. The bottom one is Hornby, weathered by Rob. 

 

It's not just the RTR locos which are taking over from kit-built stuff. Modern RTR wagons are quite brilliant as well. However, such is the variety of wagons that no RTR manufacturer is ever going to do more than scratch the surface. 

They are the same type of vehicle Tony.

 

I have seen a photo of one of the LNER built ones in 1973 and it still had the discs on the roof (http://www.dansk-jernbanearkiv.dk/turf/t7307/sh03365.jpg). As I said previously, none of the BR built batch appear to have the discs on the roof. I appreciate that camera angles can hide such things but the photo below looks pretty conclusive to me:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5582978376/in/photolist-9vmdXS-bRnbND-kYVukY-r9Xhfc-oJDvfW-pFgi16-eQdcyA-dNNv91-rUV9uZ-qwQPqq-qfmG5U-qwJFEM-qfkV6y-eQ1PLB-nWh7Z2-p3oGvj-p221cX-eQ1MSM-eQdhQw-eQde6S-oh9Dtt-oy3mLW-eQ1PgB-eQe2N7-oYmWSV-eQe3E1-opWzxZ-eQe1fL-oB6X7Y-orGRkC-oXQ3a4-owySGG-oYZ5rL-orGTJz-p1KzmR-oC62uP-oy2YG6-oUisrg-oG8MfE-oYCp4B-oG9g28-oG8Khb-oyYjdT-oVN7jU-oz3gby-opWM9d-oz3b7A-oRwRBv-oTyGJm-oVN3M3

 

I suspect that those built by BR in 1950, E1306E onwards, were built without oil lamps so never carried the large discs. Edit: Paul Bartlett's photo of E1312 shows the discs in 1950 as built (http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercctc/h33d379ad#h21e41871), so all of them may well have had the discs as built and they were subsequently removed.

 

By the way, the site of the first link has some excellent photos from 1973 at Exeter and Plymouth for all of the "young" people who read this thread. http://www.dansk-jernbanearkiv.dk/turf/t7307/tur7307.htm

 

 

Graham H

Edited December 11, 2016 by Flood

[Flood]

 

Bit OT perhaps but there could possibly be a BR WR modeller that lurks on here and this might be of interest. I have found a train working into Cornwall on the WR (Summer 1957 ) that consisted entirely of catering coaches ECS. That would be quite expensive to replicate as there are few decent RTR coaches of this type that would be suitable for that era.

Fascinating looking at carriage WTTs.

Phil

 

That train is mentioned in the Operation Cornwall book by W.S. Becket. I'm at work at the moment but I recall it was a Fridays Only ECS train from Paddington to Newquay for the catering stock needed on the Plymouth and Newquay holiday trains. This train is not mentioned in the train marshalling books (as it is ECS) so I do not know the actual consist. It would be possible to determine the stock from looking at all the trains in the above book. The author states which the previous and subsequent trains were for all the stock which entered or left Cornwall.

 

Not my era but just the sort of information I love. Perhaps I should do an equivalent edition for the summer of 1976?

 

 

Graham H

Edited December 11, 2016 by Flood

[Tony Wright]

They are the same vehicle Tony.

 

I have seen a photo of one of the LNER built ones in 1973 and it still had the discs on the roof (http://www.dansk-jernbanearkiv.dk/turf/t7307/sh03365.jpg). As I said previously, none of the BR built batch appear to have the discs on the roof. I appreciate that camera angles can hide such things but the photo below looks pretty conclusive to me:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/5582978376/in/photolist-9vmdXS-bRnbND-kYVukY-r9Xhfc-oJDvfW-pFgi16-eQdcyA-dNNv91-rUV9uZ-qwQPqq-qfmG5U-qwJFEM-qfkV6y-eQ1PLB-nWh7Z2-p3oGvj-p221cX-eQ1MSM-eQdhQw-eQde6S-oh9Dtt-oy3mLW-eQ1PgB-eQe2N7-oYmWSV-eQe3E1-opWzxZ-eQe1fL-oB6X7Y-orGRkC-oXQ3a4-owySGG-oYZ5rL-orGTJz-p1KzmR-oC62uP-oy2YG6-oUisrg-oG8MfE-oYCp4B-oG9g28-oG8Khb-oyYjdT-oVN7jU-oz3gby-opWM9d-oz3b7A-oRwRBv-oTyGJm-oVN3M3

 

I suspect that those built by BR in 1950, E1310E onwards I think, were built without oil lamps so never carried the large discs. Edit: Paul Bartlett's photo of E1312 shows the discs in 1950 as built (http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercctc/h33d379ad#h21e41871), so all of them may well have had the discs as built and they were subsequently removed.

 

By the way, the site of the first link has some excellent photos from 1973 at Exeter and Plymouth for all of the "young" people who read this thread. http://www.dansk-jernbanearkiv.dk/turf/t7307/tur7307.htm

 

 

Graham H

Thanks once again Graham,

 

What a tremendous resource this thread/site is (not because of me, I hasten to add, but because of the amount of information people post on it). Information on both model-making and prototype matters. Not only is it encouraging folk to have a go at making models themselves but also how to make those models accurate. 

 

It makes me realise how little I actually know! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

That train is mentioned in the Operation Cornwall book by W.S. Becket. I'm at work at the moment but I recall it was a Fridays Only ECS train from Paddington to Newquay for the catering stock needed on the Plymouth and Newquay holiday trains. This train is not mentioned in the train marshalling books (as it is ECS) so I do not know the actual consist. It would be possible to determine the stock from looking at all the trains in the above book. The author states which the previous and subsequent trains were for all the stock which entered or left Cornwall.

 

Not my era but just the sort of information I love. Perhaps I should do an equivalent edition for the summer of 1976?

 

 

Graham H

The train was in the carriage workings. Here it is from the 1957 WR carriage workings:

WR-1957-summer-0012 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Edited July 7, 2017 by robertcwp

[Focalplane]

With all the recent postings about restaurant cars, etc. it does seem a real shame that the era is passing rapidly towards oblivion.

 

One of my strongest memories from the late 1950s was dining (second sitting) on the Cambrian Coast Express as we trundled through central Wales on the way to Portmadoc*.  Damask table cloths and good food.  Today the two car DMU has a trolley for the four hour journey from Birmingham International.

 

More recently I have experienced dinner on the 6 p.m. and 7 p.m. departures from Paddington to Plymouth.  We travelled to Taunton in those days (< 10 years ago) and could just fit in a three course dinner if we let the staff know our destination.  Always great conversations with fellow passengers and the staff.  The only problem was you could not book a table before hand and because the HST kitchens are of three sizes the number of settings was variable.

 

Further afield Amtrak dining cars (with the kitchen downstairs) used to be excellent in the Midwest and West.  If only the trains could keep on schedule.

 

In France the TGV has just about killed off restaurant cars and kitchens, the buffet car serves drinks and microwaved food though boxed dinners can be obtained on some evening services out of Paris, served at your first class seat but - with no damask table cloth.  If you want gourmet food, eat at the station before departure (hint: Gare de Lyon has excellent food!)

 

It is interesting to note that the LMS Kitchen Car used on the streamlined Coronation Scot had gas lighting and cooking with only pass through electric cables.  The staff were given the opportunity to have electric appliances but said "no thanks".  So no dynamo or batteries were needed, just four gas tanks.

 

* Spelling of the day used.

[jrg1]

Nostalgic to read of the catering arrangements.  I remember taking the Fishguard boat train in the summer for many years, and having excellent silver service meals.  My most recent trip was on the XPT from Melbourne to Sydney-hearing the Paxman's again after so long away from the ECML was wonderful, compared to the food, which was microwaved glop.  Progress.

[Stanley Melrose]

When from 1962 to 1965 I was at university in London, my dad usually slipped me sufficient funds to pay for a meal (lunch) in the dining car on the trip from Liverpool to London - although he refused to top up my grant so I had to work in all the vacations but that's another set of tales.  My recollection is of silver service and my favourite query by a dining car attendant was, "A little peas, sir?" as he served the vegetables.

 

I also recall with delight the mashed potatoes served in a French restaurant car around Easter 1958 as I went abroad for the first time on a school trip.  They were swimming in olive oil and so delicious that if I close my eyes and think back, I can taste them now.

 

I wouldn't touch the "food" offered on any of today's trains in the UK but I do collect the wooden stirrers which have numerous uses for the modeller.

 

Stan

[MarshLane]

I have several non-passenger train formations from BR's own documents, but have used prototype pictures more. Many of these don't appear as the same in BR's documents from the period. Were these made up as required? In one shot I have, taken near York in the early-'60s, there is a gleaming Pullman car in the train's consist, along with some rather shabby four-wheeled and bogie parcels stock. On the cover of North Eastern Main Line Steam, Bradford Barton, there is a shot of ISINGLASS hauling a quite splendid empty stock train including a goods brake van, ex-LMS, ex-SR, ex-LNER and BR four-wheeled and bogie non-passenger stock, comprising nine vehicles. Nothing in my BR documents lists a set such as this. So, anything goes as required? 

 

Hi Tony,

I may be coming late to the party here, so apologies if this has already been mentioned, but given your query about consists - have you seen the LNER Passenger Trains and Formations hardback book from IA Publishing, written by Steve Banks & Clive Carter?  Wonderful book for reference, and very interesting reading as well.  Not the cheapest, but well worth the money in my view.

 

Regards

Rich