Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Also my birth - too late by about 40 years I reckon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted July 16, 2014 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Yesterday, Brush Veteran arrived with the two early test samples for Heljan's forthcoming O2 'Tango'. These were were brought for my inspection and for thorough and prolonged analogue testing on Little Bytham. It must be thoroughly stressed that both of these are development models, with still a long way to go before they're signed-off for mass-production. Items listed for alteration to be finally accurate include the shape of the GNR cab eaves, the general fit of the cabs, the top of the the GNR tender (probably to incorporate etched rails), the GNR tender buffers, sandbox types, mould release lines and the fit of the chimneys. This is the O2/3 manifestation (on which the coupling and connecting rods have been fitted upside down), complete with high central running plate, left-hand drive and flared GS tender. The O2/2 style loco is a hybrid, just to test the fit of alternate parts. It's thus not exactly an O2/2 nor an O2/4. Both locos have seen extensive handling between China, Denmark and England and show signs of this. The GNR tender coal rails were damaged and no attempt was made to repair this. Both locos were run for over two hours, forwards and backwards on heavy trains of between 35 and 55 wagons, both modified RTR and kit-built. Performance of these locos was outstanding - quiet, smooth, powerful and steady. Out of interest, comparative tests were made between a Hornby O1 (very similar performance), Bachmann O4 (O2 more powerful), Bachmann 'Austerity' (O2 more powerful) and Bachmann 9F (9F would have taken more - as expected). A Bachmann J11 would not start the loads - in fairness, also as expected. I also tested them against my four kit-built O2s. Both my Nu-Cast ones will haul prodigious loads but neither were as quiet as either of the Heljan ones. One of mine has an old MW005 motor, the other a newer Portescap. My PDK O2 had the same performance, but it wasn't quite as quiet (an older Portescap). My ACE O2 was as quiet but not quite as powerful. My verdict? None of my kit-built ones, performance-wise, is as good as these Heljan ones. Am I sick? I'll leave readers to decide. Later today, both of these locos will be DCC-fitted and given a thorough test on Peterborough North. I, or Great Northern, will report accordingly. All I'll finally say is make sure you've got the readies when the production models are released early next year. Comments, please. An initial report will appear soon in BRM. The Editor also took some video footage yesterday for presentation on the Web. Edited July 16, 2014 by Tony Wright 25 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Maybe Heljan should be persuaded to do a new V2.... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I believe that's what's known as "breaking cover"... Are they driven by coreless motors in the same way as the Garratt? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Both 02's look very neat and it is good to read they run well. Despite being appropriate motive power for Woodhead rather than Standedge, I can easily be persuaded to buy one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I wasn't sure about them after seeing the garratts in the flesh - will be making pre orders with my favoured supplier in sidcup later this week. They look fantastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Thanks ever so much for posting these for us Tony. Can't comment knowledgeably on the appearance (although I can readily see the point about the GN cab roof); all I'll say is, if the mechanism is as good as that of the Garratt that I was fortunate to have the loan of for a day on mini-Grantham at the Nottingham show in March then your reports about the performance comes as no surprise. Given that someone once pointed out to me (in a rather drastic over-simplification I suspect!) that the LNER Garratt was effectively two O2 loco chassis placed back to back, perhaps the U1 is not such a daft 'next ' model for Heljan than it might first seem? Or should I prepare myself for hoots of derision...? Edited July 16, 2014 by LNER4479 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Very interesting to see, and a tantalising suggestion of an early 2015 release date. I'd been given to understand that the version with GN features would be a much later release. Looking at the above photos I am forced to wonder. Is the test model a true example of the older version with short travel valve gear and lower running plate, or is it just a "cheat" using the GN style cab and tender on a high-running plate model? It looks like it might be just such a fiddle in those photos, although the perspective could be spoiling my judgement. Do you have a side view of this loco to provide a better clue? Obviously, if it isn't a fully true test model then that may mean that the 02/2 and/or 02/1 will be a significantly later introduction. By the way Tony, I wonder if you noted which axle is the driven one? If and when I get my hands on an O2/2 or O2/1 I want to try to turn it into the 2 cylinder predecessor. I realise I'll have to move the second coupled axle, fit completely new motion and different cylinders, as well as create a completely new front end to the running plate with different pony wheels and truck beneath. Then if the donor loco isn't the O2/1 specifically I'll have to alter the cab to give it higher eaves and flatter roof...... Edited July 16, 2014 by gr.king Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Many thanks for the comments. In answer to several questions......... I don't know if they have coreless motors because I didn't take the loco bodies off. Nor did I ask the question. Whatever motors they have are super-smooth. As intimated, the GN-style loco is a hybrid - to test the compatibility of parts mainly. It's thus got the higher central footplate (suggesting long-travel valves) but the production O2/2s will have the lower central footplate (correct for short-travel valves). The O2/4 versions of these will have the correct smokebox length and higher vacuum ejector pipe. The drive, correctly, is on the second coupled axle. It might well be that the O2/3s with different tender types/liveries/numbers will be the first to be released, though, since I've not been officially told I can merely speculate; which is not always entirely productive. Whichever ones come out first, I suggest a rapid acquisition. As for their running on DCC, I must report that I didn't succeed on Peterborough North. Members familiar with my prejudice will not be surprised. The decoders go in the tenders with umbilicals between, connected to the motor, the chip fitting and pick-ups on both loco and tender. After removal of the blanking plate and the fitting of a Bachmann 21-pin decoder, on the programming track a display came up suggesting the chip was installed the wrong way round. Since (I believe) this is impossible without damage to the delicate pins I (particularly), Gilbert and Brush Veteran were stumped. So, a huge 'thank you' to Chris of Digitrains of Lincoln for explaining over the telephone to a dunce like me that the fault must be in the wiring to the decoder housing. Since this was installed in a manner totally different from what will be supplied (wires seemed to be all over the place), I investigated no further. It could be my incompetence at fiddling with it, but both locos were the same. I must stress again that these are assessment prototypes and that the DCC difficulties will be immediately reported back to Denmark and China. There's no doubt that the production locos, subsequently DCC-equipped will perform like all Heljan's locos thus fitted. With the blanking plates re-instated, back on analogue, off they both went, sweet as anything. Since I know no more about the models (though I'll be seeing further developments in the late summer/early autumn) I cannot comment further. However, the next issue of BRM should contain more pictures and a more comprehensive report. Edited July 16, 2014 by Tony Wright Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Reading my post above, and looking through previous posts on other threads, it would seem that the the O2/3 versions will be the first to appear. Since I must already have been aware of this, I can only plead crumbling faculties! But, I stand by what I said about speculation as a principle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUTLER2579 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Reading my post above, and looking through previous posts on other threads, it would seem that the the O2/3 versions will be the first to appear. Since I must already have been aware of this, I can only plead crumbling faculties! But, I stand by what I said about speculation as a principle. Just a Senior moment Tony, I have peaked at 59 per hour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 crumbling faculties! I work in one of those.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Oh dear, drive onto the second coupled axle? That may well scupper any ideas of converting one of these back to Gresley O1 class. I was fairly confident that Heljan would take advantage of the firebox sides to accommodate and hide the motor , therefore driving onto the third couple axle.Looks like an ACE kit may be back on menu, notwithstanding the known problems with those. Distinctly cheaper than PDK however, especially important when some of the parts will be thrown away as part of the modification plan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 some most of the parts will be thrown away Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Oh dear, drive onto the second coupled axle? That may well scupper any ideas of converting one of these back to Gresley O1 class. I was fairly confident that Heljan would take advantage of the firebox sides to accommodate and hide the motor , therefore driving onto the third couple axle.Looks like an ACE kit may be back on menu, notwithstanding the known problems with those. Distinctly cheaper than PDK however, especially important when some of the parts will be thrown away as part of the modification plan. Though it might have been easier to hide the motor in the firebox, there appears to be no need for this because there is no visible motor or drive train with the loco complete. Since I didn't take the bodies off, I don't know how this is done. Either the motor is thin and small (though very powerful) or there is an extended drive train (which is incredibly quiet). The brief insisted that the drive be on the 'correct' axle. An ACE O2? Good luck, though with your reputation for ingenuity, perseverance and (dare I say it?) 'oddball' approach to modelling, you'll have no problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Taking into account the potential after-market cost of quality motors, gearsets, wheels, axles, crankpins and so on, plus the time and trouble involved in building up the usable parts of a kit, a little extra thought has now suggested to me that it might still be worth starting a Gresley O1 project with a Heljan GN-style O2, even if it were necessary to make new frames from scratch so as to accept the Heljan wheelsets, motor and drivetrain. I'll reserve final judgement until I've seen the internals of one of the early releases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 with your (dare I say it?) 'oddball' approach to modelling... What greater compliment could a man (or woman) be paid than that? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 A resin kit of body work parts might well tempt a few to ignore the minor wheelbase error and assemble their own Gresley Garratt; that's if Heljan don't. ...Comments, please... Do we suppose that the GN tender might have the 'legs' to justify a production run as a separate item? Such a ubiquitous item, not only for other GN locos but also as water treament sludge tanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Do we suppose that the GN tender might have the 'legs' to justify a production run as a separate item? Such a ubiquitous item, not only for other GN locos but also as water treament sludge tanks. Now that's a mighty fine idea... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 A resin kit of body work parts might well tempt a few to ignore the minor wheelbase error and assemble their own Gresley Garratt; that's if Heljan don't. Do we suppose that the GN tender might have the 'legs' to justify a production run as a separate item? Such a ubiquitous item, not only for other GN locos but also as water treament sludge tanks. Regarding the GNR tender, who knows? But it wasn't mentioned at my meeting. It will be at the next one. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Do we suppose that the GN tender might have the 'legs' to justify a production run as a separate item? Its got brake shoes so it might be a step in the right direction... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Its got brake shoes so it might be a step in the right direction... Brilliant! Was that the GNR's secret, patented design for a booster tender then? Edited July 18, 2014 by LNER4479 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atso Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Taking into account the potential after-market cost of quality motors, gearsets, wheels, axles, crankpins and so on, plus the time and trouble involved in building up the usable parts of a kit, a little extra thought has now suggested to me that it might still be worth starting a Gresley O1 project with a Heljan GN-style O2, even if it were necessary to make new frames from scratch so as to accept the Heljan wheelsets, motor and drivetrain. I'll reserve final judgement until I've seen the internals of one of the early releases. Graeme, having read your A1 to A2 conversion article, couldn't you potentially chop the O2 frame and realign it using some brass out frames? Edited July 18, 2014 by Atso Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Thanks for this early review Tony, I have looked at the various permutations available for pre-order at Hattons, compared them to boiler changes, ( if any), on the BRDatabase, and placed my pre-order for 63952 with late crest, stepped tender, which kept it's diagram 2 boiler to the end. The O2/2 with GN tender looks magnificent, and totally different, bring them on too! cheers from Oz, Peter C. Edited July 18, 2014 by 45568 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Brit70053 Posted July 18, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2014 Brilliant! Was that the GNR's secret, patented design for a booster tender then? So long as its not Heljan's precursor for Tender Drive with Traction Tyres! Hat, coat, door ajar! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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