Wright writes.....

[johnarcher]

I always liked Morning Star or even better Lode star. How about some proper names of Stars, like Sun Star, only the LNER already has that one. Canopus? no that's back to the battleship that beached at the Falkland islands mentioned above. How about Antares, Capella, Altair, even Bellatrix, or Betlegeuse. I would love a GWR loco called Betlegeuse.

Isn't Sun Star tautology, as the Sun is a star?

I like Evening Star - poignant considering where in the history of steam she comes (also it links to the other end of that history - there was a broad gauge Evening Star built 1839)

Edited August 19, 2017 by johnarcher

[EddieB]

Isn't Sun Star tautology, as the Sun is a star?

I like Evening Star - poignant considering where in the history of steam she comes (also it links to the other end of that history - there was a broad gauge Evening Star built 1839)

"Sunstar" (one word)  was named for a famous racehorse (like many of the A3 class and the Deltics that followed them), who in turn may have been named in perpetuation of a line of names beginning with "Sun".

 

It is "Morning Star" and "Evening Star" that are misnomers - both being phases of the planet Venus.

[Clive Mortimore]

"Sunstar" (one word)  was named for a famous racehorse (like many of the A3 class and the Deltics that followed them), who in turn may have been named in perpetuation of a line of names beginning with "Sun".

 

It is "Morning Star" and "Evening Star" that are misnomers - both being phases of the planet Venus.

Hi Eddie

 

Comrade, I always thought Morning Star was a very informative news paper.

 

Yours

 

Brother Clive

[johnarcher]

"Sunstar" (one word)  was named for a famous racehorse (like many of the A3 class and the Deltics that followed them), who in turn may have been named in perpetuation of a line of names beginning with "Sun".

 

It is "Morning Star" and "Evening Star" that are misnomers - both being phases of the planet Venus.

Oh, I didn't know about Sunstar (Racing, Eastern engines and diesels are none of them my thing), thanks.

You're right about the last two of course.(there was also a broad gauge Shooting Star, which is a meteor.  No Guest Star as yet though)

Edited August 19, 2017 by johnarcher

[Headstock]

Isn't Sun Star tautology, as the Sun is a star?

I like Evening Star - poignant considering where in the history of steam she comes (also it links to the other end of that history - there was a broad gauge Evening Star built 1839)

 

Yes, Sunstar was a race horse, how about Deathstar?.

[The Johnster]

I am very fond of ECML racehorse names; not only are they particularly suitable for express locomotives, but many have a sort of ring to them which is almost lyrical.  Pinza, Tudor Minstrel, Sun Chariot, Blink Bonny, Crepello, Grand Parade, Saint Mungo; see what I mean?  Even Nimbus, the name of the world's most boring cloud formation, is transformed by the association

 

I play a game in the pub when the racing is on in the afternoon of 'what racehorse names would suit a East Coast Pacific or a Deltic'.  One of the racing punters spotted me one day nodding or shaking my head, or putting one down as a 'maybe', and naturally assumed I had a system.  I couldn't be bothered explaining that I didn't, and in any case the more I denied it the more he assumes I have one, and have secret stashes of winnings accrued by it.  He did accidentally win £15 one day listening to my muttered ravings, and reckons he's on to something; perhaps I'll get hold of a 1963 or so Combined Volume to inspire him...

[The Johnster]

Yes, Sunstar was a race horse, how about Deathstar?.

David Prowse, who played Darth Vader but did not voice him, was an ex-professional wrestler from Bristol whose day job was on the Per Way back in my days in the early 70s, as IIRC was Rick Stein the fish restaurant guy.  I think George Lucas missed a trick in not using Prowse's broad Brissow accent in the film; just imagine some of those lines in it.  'Oi be yor faaather. Luke', 'the farce be strong in this'un', or, best of all, 'Prepare moi Death Staaarrr'.

 

The world missed a treat!

[MarkC]

Yes, Sunstar was a race horse, how about Deathstar?.

Or Dark Star...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star_%28film%29

[The Johnster]

Or Dark Star...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star_%28film%29

 

There are not many films that feature an existentialist nuclear device.

[Hroth]

There are not many films that feature an existentialist nuclear device.

Racehorse names are ok as far as they go, but I get nervous when I see Hornbys Bachmanns "Trimbush"* and "Pearl Diver"** in close proximity***....

 

As for "Dark Star", who wants an engine that'll get chatty at entirely the wrong moment?

 

*  Doncaster Cup, 1947

** The Derby, 1947

*** eg in Hattons listing...

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by Hroth

[Focalplane]

Being a Warwickshire lad, maybe it was appropriate that the first loco I spotted was 70004 William Shakespeare on display at the 1951 Festival of Britain. I never saw it again!

 

Ironically, among all the futuristic ideas on display that truly looked like science fiction, the Britannia really did look like the future to a six year old!

[Willie Whizz]

From memory, which may not be reliable, two other Bushbury Joobs were Fisher and Implacable, did the one ever command the other?

 

 

Jacky Fisher is more famous as a transformational administrator, trainer and reformer than as a ship-captain, though he did see some action as the latter, most notably as Captain of HMS Inflexible at the bombardment of Alexandria in 1882, and it may be that 'I'-name you're thinking of, but never an Implacable I think..

 

As an admiral in the late 1890s and early 1900s he also commanded the West Indies and then the Mediterranean squadrons from a one-off battleship called HMS Renown, which combined higher than usual speed with lighter than usual armour and armament, and may therefore have contributed some inspiration towards his development of the battle-cruiser concept a few years later.  I don't recall seeing many of the warship-named Jubilees in my neck of the woods (Nottingham), they were mostly the 'colonial territory' ones I think.

 

About 15-20 years ago a property developer built a couple of small housing estates in the north of the City, one taking some road names from the Britannias which ran for a brief but glorious time years on the Great Central in the early 60s; the other (located on the sites of the former Rigley's Wagon Works and Bulwell Forest GNR station) from some famous locomotive depots.  What the modern locals make of living on a street called just 'Cowlairs' is anyone's guess though - probably they mostly think that's where wild cattle would once make their homes ...?!

[Daniel W]

Just picked up this month's issue of BRM from Smiths, not finished it yet, but I feel compelled to comment on what a fantastic layout Llawryglyn is. Not to say that the other layouts are not fantastic, Malham is very much 'my thing' when it comes to time period and location. But Llawryglyn really is lovely, proof that you don't need to cram in track and have endless amounts of stock to make an effective model.

[The Johnster]

The WR Britannias were named after early broad gauge locos, starting with 'Iron Duke' but the region managed to use the Merchant Navy loco crisis on the Southern to palm it off on to that region to share 'Golden Arrow' duties with 'William Shakespeare'.  Naming a loco used on the crack boat train to France after the hero of Waterloo may not have been the best bit of diplomacy ever, but it was not the original intention!

 

It was well known that the WR wanted more Castles built and was opposed to the idea of a 2 cylinder pacific which they thought would be light footed on the South Devon banks and rough riding at speed, and the naming policy of that batch was a conscious effort to mollify feelings.  In the event, they proved ideal uphill sloggers and strong pullers that would steam on a candle, which was just what Canton wanted for the very heavy (up to 16 coach) South Wales expresses which had to be hammered all the way from the bottom of the Severn Tunnel to Badminton and whose timings were fairly generous, and took a liking to them since they couldn't get the Kings they really wanted until 1961.  The WR also took exception to the 9Fs and wanted more 2884s, which says more about WR thinking in the 50s than it does about either loco; in the end they rightly took what they were given and made the best of it. 

 

It is possible to learn the Kings of England backwards though history by learning the GW Kings' names in number order; starting with King George V, and running back through Edward VII, William IV, George IV and so on back to King Stephen, but the last 2, Henry II and Stephen, were renamed for more current monarchs George VI and Edward VIII respectively.  Of these, Edward V was crowned but never took the throne, disappearing as one of the 'princes in the Tower' and Edward VIII abdicated before his coronation.  I will not comment on the legality or otherwise of Henry IV's usurpation of the crown in case I restart the Wars Of The Roses.  The series never got as far back as Henry I, William II Rufus, or William I (the Conqueror or the Bastard depending on whose side you were on and whether or not he could hear you).  It also, perhaps not surprisingly, does not include Louis VIII of France, who, while Dauphin, was de facto KIng of England during 1216 for some months, having been acclaimed king by the English barons and crowned at Westminster by the Archbishop of Canterbury which is good enough for me; the coronation was later annulled and Louis resigned the throne after the death of John and accession of Richard II, at which point he lost the support of the barons.  Queens (and Empresses) are also excluded.

 

English history is great as a spectator sport but I am glad to have missed most of it!

Edited August 19, 2017 by The Johnster

[Focalplane]

I frequently drive through Falaise on the way to and from Caen and am reminded each time of the Conqueror come Bastard of English history. The fortress at Falaise has been restored up to a point after the post Normandy landings battle there and is well worth a visit.

 

Guillaime le Batard is responsible for many changes to English (and British) society though there was very little inter marriage between the Normans and Saxons. Our language has inherited Norman names for food, such as pork, beef, mutton while we retain Anglo Saxon names for the animals, such as pig, sheep and cow. It is not difficult to see how this happened. Serfs did not eat meat.

 

I know this is off topic but actually I will be passing by just over a week from now on my way to the Gaige O Guild annual meeting at Telford. There, on topic!

[Headstock]

David Prowse, who played Darth Vader but did not voice him, was an ex-professional wrestler from Bristol whose day job was on the Per Way back in my days in the early 70s, as IIRC was Rick Stein the fish restaurant guy.  I think George Lucas missed a trick in not using Prowse's broad Brissow accent in the film; just imagine some of those lines in it.  'Oi be yor faaather. Luke', 'the farce be strong in this'un', or, best of all, 'Prepare moi Death Staaarrr'.

 

The world missed a treat!

 

That can be arranged.

 

[The Johnster]

Were there notably weaker history results where you 50s schoolboys couldn't see the King class regularly in order to learn the order of English kings??? Or perhaps 1962 marks the start of the decline of standards in history....

 

1962 was the year that Canton shed closed to steam.

 

It was therefore the start of the decline of standards in EVERYTHING!!!

Edited August 19, 2017 by The Johnster

[MarkC]

 

I know this is off topic but actually I will be passing by just over a week from now on my way to the Gaige O Guild annual meeting at Telford. There, on topic!

On topic? What is this strange thing of which you speak? 

[Headstock]

From memory, which may not be reliable, two other Bushbury Joobs were Fisher and Implacable, did the one ever command the other?

 

Those platform three London expresses were the best at New Street, always well turned out. Over at Snow Hill the other shed did a good job as well on platform 7.

 

Somewhere I have nameplates in 4mm for Fisher and Implacable. I will never use them, so PM me if interested and I will search for them next month.

 

The name Implacable had a most interesting history in the Royal Navy. There were three ships that carried the name, the Bushbury Joob would have been named for the Battleship of 1899.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Implacable_(1899)#/media/File:HMS_Implacable_Spithead_1909_Flickr_4793355702_4792e59389_o.jpg

 

The last of the three was the aircraft carrier completed in 1944.

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a2/75/55/a275556d2d3971e20de068d068d6b41a.jpg

  

Perhaps the most interesting was the first HMS Implacable, this was the French Duguay-Trouin, a veteran of the battle of Trafalgar. She was captured by the British at the Battle of Cape Ortegal and pressed into service as Implacable. The great shame is that this ship was still afloat in 1949 and attempts were made to preserve her. The British government declined on the grounds of cost, as did the French. She was towed out and scuttled east of the Isle of white, what a shame, unlike steam locomotives, we seem to have binned most of our maritime heritage. The last of the Grand fleets Dreadnoughts was taken for scrapping in Japan in 1959.

 

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/976x549/p02bmp2x.jpg

Edited August 20, 2017 by Headstock

[ecgtheow]

And now for something completely different: it's a plea for help. My grandfather, William Jenkins the same name as mine, was an LNWR engine driver based presumably in Birkenhead where he lived according to the 1911 census. He died long before I was born, but the story in the family is that he died in a railway accident for which he was awarded a posthumous medal, which I saw when young, but do not have. How can I find out more about him? The LNWR Society webpage search for staff has not helped.

 

Thanks to anyone who can help,

 

William Jenkins (ecgtheow)

[Hroth]

The thing about warships is that the old ones were full of valuable scrap, in far larger quantities than a locomotive!

 

Where to keep them and the expense of maintaining them is a major issue.  Also, you wouldn't want an obsolete vessel to fall into the hands of potential foes, even with all the gubbins ripped out, the armoured hull would still be extremely useful. 

 

We've still got a few lying about, but how they survived is a matter of fame,  luck or location.  For example, there's M.33, a WW1 Monitor or floating battery thats on show at the Portsmouth Dockyard, next to HMS Victory.  HMS Warrior lies a bit further along....  And there's HMS Belfast on the Thames.

 

HMS Monitor M.33 

 

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/media/images/70186000/jpg/_70186883_70186879.jpg

[Fat Controller]

 

 

The last of the three was the aircraft carrier completed in 1944.

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a2/75/55/a275556d2d3971e20de068d068d6b41a.jpg

  

 

Any idea when that photo of Implacable might have been taken? If it was 1945, then Lynne's dad is one of the Marines at the bow end of the flight-deck. He sailed on her from Australia to Japan, then came back via Vancouver with a load of former POWs.

[The Stationmaster]

Any idea when that photo of Implacable might have been taken? If it was 1945, then Lynne's dad is one of the Marines at the bow end of the flight-deck. He sailed on her from Australia to Japan, then came back via Vancouver with a load of former POWs.

 

One online source dates the pic as 1947 but judging by the weapons fit and aircraft that is wrong.  Definitely not while sailing from Australia to Vancouver etc with former PoWs as g her aircraft had been landed to enable the hangar decks to be converted into accommodation.

 

Judging by the uniforms I suspect the picture might date from immediately after refit in order to join the Pacific Fleet which dates it after 10 March 1945 (assuming the Wiki date is correct) which also matches the weapons fit and embarked aircraft types at that date while the conversion to for troop carrying means it would be before 24 August 1945.  However she also carried Seafires after the air group rejoined in January 1946, although they were again landed during a refit in march/April and retained them until June of that year when she arrived back in Home waters.  I might be wrong but the aircraft look like Seafires hence my previous comments about that type.

[Jamiel]

Thank you ever so much for posting this, Jamie. 

 

As Tom has said, you're on the slippery slope now. But, it's a slope that goes up as well - up to (and you're well on the way) becoming an actual model-maker, a true railway modeller. 

 

Don't forget RTR altogether, but use it (as you have done) to complement what you're personally doing. You're beginning your own model-making, not asking others (by whatever means) to do it for you. 

 

Great stuff!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Thank you Tony.

 

Your encouragement is greatly appreciated, as are your videos and writings. Such a wealth of knowledge.

 

Here are a couple more images of the Saloon as the soldering is nearly completed above the solebar. There are still some small parts to make from plastic, and also door hinges which I will glue on rather than solder. The body is just perched on and another pass with the fine files and some Wet & Dry will be needed to tidy some of my soldering. The photos are a little critical of the work, it looks much better when viewed from a completely different room!

 

 

 

 

In addition to the Comet kit there are a few parts from RT Models for couplings, A1 packs of grill etches, Niarnshire Model Supplies for hand rail holders,  Extreme Etchings and Craftsman for pipes and lamp irons, and I will use the Extreme Etchings door hinges as I really liked the the results I got with them on a DMU conversion I did a few months ago.

 

Despite having done a few conversion kits, a full brass and white metal model has quite different, you and Tom are quite right about how it feels to model fully in this medium. Very rewarding, at times trying, especially when you melt off something you soldered earlier by not being careful soldering nearby, but the sense of ownership of model is very strong.

 

I won't clutter your thread with this build, but will post the finished model when that is done (I hope that is OK).

 

I would say to anyone tempted by seeing the wonderful work on display in this thread, 'have a go', even over the couple of weekends building this I have found my ability to solder has improved a lot, and hopefully will continue.

 

Jamie

[4069]

And now for something completely different: it's a plea for help. My grandfather, William Jenkins the same name as mine, was an LNWR engine driver based presumably in Birkenhead where he lived according to the 1911 census. He died long before I was born, but the story in the family is that he died in a railway accident for which he was awarded a posthumous medal, which I saw when young, but do not have. How can I find out more about him? The LNWR Society webpage search for staff has not helped.

 

Thanks to anyone who can help,

 

William Jenkins (ecgtheow)

If you know his date of death, then searching in http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventlisting.php on major accidents, LNWR and that year will narrow it down to one or two. In those days all the people who featured in accidents were named in the official reports, unlike today.

 

If you don't know where or when he died, it could be trickier. It's also possible that he died in what was known as a 'personnel accident', ie not involving a passenger train, and the reports on those are not yet on line.

Edited August 20, 2017 by 4069