Wright writes.....

[Enterprisingwestern]

Nah, it looks like this now.

 

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/14686056.jpg

 

Original, there would have been a myriad of golden hues to the stone work. Unfortunately, the cleaning process removes this as well as the soot, leaving such buildings a sickly yellow colour verging on beige.

 

I believe the worst thing you can do these type of buildings is clean them as it removes the original finish on the brickwork as stated above, this then allows our current acid laden atmosphere to attack the underlying undefended stone at an even faster rate than soot ever did.

 

Mike.

[Focalplane]

Different building stones and other building materials seem to take on pollution weathering at different rates.  All rocks in natural outcrops weather to different degrees, so the same applies when they are cut into building stones.  Limestone is a good example.  Cotswold Stone is quite soft when quarried and cut but exposed to rain the skin of the stones hardens through what the eco-luvvies call acid rain dissolving and re-precipitating calcium carbonate.  This process has been going on for millions of years so is not entirely a man-made phenomenon.

 

In Birmingham I know of terracotta buildings that have never been high-pressure cleaned yet have very little soot on them.  I assume this is because the soot had little purchase on the smooth outer finish of the ornate bricks.  Likewise high temperature Staffordshire Blues have a glazed finish, which is why the GWR viaduct at Digbeth is still blue (except where there is shrubbery).  Cut sandstone may be the worst affected because it has porosity and certainly the North of England provides many examples like Leeds Town Hall which I presume was built of Millstone Grit.

 

And another thought comes to mind.  The Black Country was never named after soot from those satanic mills.  Strictly speaking the Black Country is defined by where coal outcrops at the surface, turning the soil black quite naturally.

 

(Not entirely off topic since it features the Digbeth viaduct)

[The Johnster]

Adding to the general grime, particularly but not exclusively in London, was the effect of WW2.  London and other cities were very heavily bombed (though not as heavily as some German cities where the destruction was so complete that they effectively had to be rebuilt as new from scratch and hence looked different) and those areas and buildings which survived were coated with a heavy covering of blackened brick and plaster dust and smoke from the raids, which took many decades to clean off and was still apparent in the 50s and 60s and even into the 70s in some cases.  Scorch marks were common as well; I can remember parts of Swansea which had never been particularly industrialised in the way that pollution destroyed the lower Tawe valley a couple of miles away, the area around Victoria station, being blackened for many years; much of it has now been redeveloped and was never cleaned.

 

But the atmosphere and appearance of 'Passport to Pimlico' or 'The Ladykillers', or the general gloom that added to the horror of '10 Rillington Place' were real and a feature of many urban areas for many years.

[Northroader]

"Hue and Cry" made in 1947, gives a good impression of the immediate post war appearance of London.

[Headstock]

Different building stones and other building materials seem to take on pollution weathering at different rates.  All rocks in natural outcrops weather to different degrees, so the same applies when they are cut into building stones.  Limestone is a good example.  Cotswold Stone is quite soft when quarried and cut but exposed to rain the skin of the stones hardens through what the eco-luvvies call acid rain dissolving and re-precipitating calcium carbonate.  This process has been going on for millions of years so is not entirely a man-made phenomenon.

 

In Birmingham I know of terracotta buildings that have never been high-pressure cleaned yet have very little soot on them.  I assume this is because the soot had little purchase on the smooth outer finish of the ornate bricks.  Likewise high temperature Staffordshire Blues have a glazed finish, which is why the GWR viaduct at Digbeth is still blue (except where there is shrubbery).  Cut sandstone may be the worst affected because it has porosity and certainly the North of England provides many examples like Leeds Town Hall which I presume was built of Millstone Grit.

 

And another thought comes to mind.  The Black Country was never named after soot from those satanic mills.  Strictly speaking the Black Country is defined by where coal outcrops at the surface, turning the soil black quite naturally.

 

(Not entirely off topic since it features the Digbeth viaduct)

 

Birmingham has some fantastic terracotta buildings. Actually Leeds probably has more in common with Birmingham than the traditional West ridding aesthetic familiar to railway modellers. At its core it is predominately red brick rather than the Millstone Grit of such towns and Cities to the west, such as Halifax, Huddersfield and Bradford. The stone used on Leeds Town hall was Millstone Grit, it came from Darley Dale in Derbyshire, famed for its light orange and pink shades.

[Tony Wright]

A bit more moody as befits northern grot?  I will delete if told to do so.

 

post-18225-0-46616300-1503607856_thumb.jpg

 

Or just plain grainy...

post-18225-0-46616300-1503607856_Grain.jpg

Please, Larry,

 

Do whatever you like. I think your effects look great. 

 

I think Staly Vegas looks good because it is so grubbily uniform, even though it might not be 'black' enough. I love muted colours like this and (with luck) try and capture them on the camera. Not at all like some of the lurid colours one sees in the mags (not all, to be fair) these days. 

[96701]

A suburb of Bolton in 1973. Can't quite remember where it is, but the terraces are still largely black.

 

And Nelson about the same time with some painted houses in a terrace and some with mortar picked out.

[mullie]

So my take on West London in the 60s is perhaps too clean?

 

 

But perhaps in black and white is more convincing?

 

 

This layout is just four feet long and not sure the colouring would work if made too dark.

[AndyID]

exposed to rain the skin of the stones hardens through what the eco-luvvies call acid rain dissolving and re-precipitating calcium carbonate.  This process has been going on for millions of years so is not entirely a man-made phenomenon.

 

Presumably by "eco-luvvies" you are referring to people who actually care about the effects we humans are having on the environment. The term "acid rain" was coined to describe the effect industrial pollutants sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide have when combined with rain to produce sulfuric and nitric acids, sometimes with remarkably low pH values. Unless you live near a volcano these are definitely not natural processes.

 

Atmospheric carbon dioxide does combine with rain to form weak carbonic acid and that is a natural process that's been going on for millions of years, but it's not usually referred to as acid rain.

Edited August 25, 2017 by AndyID

[kandc_au]

Nah, it looks like this now.

 

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/14686056.jpg

 

Original, there would have been a myriad of golden hues to the stone work. Unfortunately, the cleaning process removes this as well as the soot, leaving such buildings a sickly yellow colour verging on beige.

So the Black on all of these buildings is still soot that hasn't been cleaned off as mentioned further on in this thread?

 

Khris

[Headstock]

So the Black on all of these buildings is still soot that hasn't been cleaned off as mentioned further on in this thread?

 

Khris

 

Morning Khris,

 

In the case of Leeds Town hall, no. What you are seeing is the accumulation of modern pollution since the building was cleaned in 1972. Other buildings have retained their industrial grime but the important thing to remember is that they have been subject to fifty years or more of wind and rain that has weathered it away, without the accumulation of new soot from those millions of coal fires that propagated the stuff.

 

So my take on West London in the 60s is perhaps too clean?

 

WP_20160215_10_31_06_Pro.jpg

 

But perhaps in black and white is more convincing?

 

DSC_0006bw.jpg

 

This layout is just four feet long and not sure the colouring would work if made too dark.

 

I don't think there is a wrong or right way, as long as you are looking at real buildings and how they looked in the past. The building to the right of your image is quite dark (it looks very good by the way) possibly because it has been there longer than the abutments in the background.

[coachmann]

Something I did earlier before turning to the Welsh Borders..........The LNWR Delph Branch in 4mm/00; a picture of Pennine damp and gloom.....

Edited August 26, 2017 by coachmann

[allan downes]

I know this has nothing at all to do with model railways, battleships and cruisers, the sinking of such or otherwise, but being in the company of such well informed and enlightened gentlemen, I would like to ask you this.

 

Why are American movie script writers so blinkered that all American film start with either.

 

A - A sex starved couple going at it hammer and tongs in bed.

 

B- Just married couple going through the procedure of getting divorced.

 

C - Couple already divorced.

 

D - Always a son that wants to see daddy and a daughter that doesn't.

 

E - The only thing that reunites couple is a disaster - World splitting in two. One or both of the kids abducted (and of the kind that I'd willingly pay someone to do ) Petrol crisis. Doughnut shortage, etc, etc.

 

And full of dialogue that contains   ' Bitch' or' 'motherxxxxxr ' at the end of every sentence and a constant flow of OMG's 

 

Anyway, if you MUST support the American movie industry for your own sanity spare yourself at least  the worst possible  TV programme in the World - "Say Yes To The Dress " !!!! 

 

And how do I know all this ? Don't ask !

 

Allan.

[AndyID]

I know this has nothing at all to do with model railways, battleships and cruisers, the sinking of such or otherwise, but being in the company of such well informed and enlightened gentlemen, I would like to ask you this.

 

Why are American movie script writers so blinkered that all American film start with either.

 

A - A sex starved couple going at it hammer and tongs in bed.

 

B- Just married couple going through the procedure of getting divorced.

 

C - Couple already divorced.

 

D - Always a son that wants to see daddy and a daughter that doesn't.

 

E - The only thing that reunites couple is a disaster - World splitting in two. One or both of the kids abducted (and of the kind that I'd willingly pay someone to do ) Petrol crisis. Doughnut shortage, etc, etc.

 

And full of dialogue that contains   ' Bitch' or' 'motherxxxxxr ' at the end of every sentence and a constant flow of OMG's 

 

Anyway, if you MUST support the American movie industry for your own sanity spare yourself at least  the worst possible  TV programme in the World - "Say Yes To The Dress " !!!! 

 

And how do I know all this ? Don't ask !

 

Allan.

Probably because Hollywood is full of British actors and script writers. I kid you not.

[The Johnster]

Something I did earlier before turning to the Welsh Borders..........The LNWR Delph Branch in 4mm/00; a picture of Pennine damp and gloom.....

WEB Pennine gloom & doom.jpg

 

That is very much the look I want for Cwmdimbath.  Any tips about lighting would be appreciated, Coachmann.

[The Johnster]

Because somebody made a film with one or all of those features that made money.  Once a film is financially successful, only films that ape it (often badly) can get any backing and any other idea, or anything remotely original,is considered too risky.  You can add to the list:-

 

F. A secret agent who has gone to ground because his own bosses want him killed; he 'knows too much'.

 

G. Romcoms in which behaviour that would in any reasonable situation be regarded as extreme stalking and highly creepy is  passed of as romantic and eventually wins our hapless hero the girl.

 

H. Portrayal of Brits as either chinless wonders who know the Queen personally, or mindless drunken thugs, half of which is true.

 

I would also like to ask how Americans seem to have perfectly successful sex without removing their underwear?

 

OT, me, no, not me, guv, it's that Allan Downes bloke, makes better buildings than me and then gets me into trouble with the mods...

[allan downes]

No one as yet has mentioned the three major aspects of any American movie.

 

Perfect hair.

 

Perfect teeth.

 

And the relentless and inexhaustable  fire power of the Hollywood colt 45.  Oh, and  out of  a thousand rounds fired at close range by a gang of uzi toting baddies, not even one comes anywhere close to hitting the hero. And Bruce Willis won an Oscar and paid a few million bucks for being totally bullet proof, bomb proof and fireproof ( and, all the while, estranged from his wife.

Of course )

 

Then we mustn't forget the Bimbo cop head of the FBI team. All txts, teeth and gun.  "OK guys. Follow me. Shoot to kill " - " Yes ma'm "

 

Allan 

Edited August 26, 2017 by allan downes

[LNER4479]

Meanwhile, back with the trains, had a lovely day at Little Bytham today, courtesy of Tony and Mo.

 

How good are your spotting skills? I'll give you the two red 'uns for free

Edited August 27, 2017 by LNER4479

[sulzer27jd]

Meanwhile, back with the trains, had a lovely day at Little Bytham today, courtesy of Tony and Mo.

 

How good are your sporting skills? I'll give you the two red 'uns for free

WP_20170826_14_32_28_Pro.jpg

 

I see a couple of representatives from Scotland's real railway, shaming those who believed they were part of Britain!!

[Buhar]

Meanwhile, back with the trains, had a lovely day at Little Bytham today, courtesy of Tony and Mo.

 

How good are your sporting skills? I'll give you the two red 'uns for free

WP_20170826_14_32_28_Pro.jpg

 

Votes invited on the correct shade of red for LMR pacifics.

[LNER4479]

One's bulled up for a railtour; the other has seen endless applications of an oily rag.

We'll, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

[coachmann]

That is very much the look I want for Cwmdimbath.  Any tips about lighting would be appreciated, Coachmann.

Photo taken 8th June 2014, so it must have been a grotty day. Greenery, such as it is around the Pennine towns and countryside, can look miserable, so I used dull greens for everything.

[Hroth]

No one as yet has mentioned the three major aspects of any American movie.

 

Perfect hair.

 

Perfect teeth.

 

And the relentless and inexhaustable  fire power of the Hollywood colt 45.  Oh, and  out of  a thousand rounds fired at close range by a gang of uzi toting baddies, not even one comes anywhere close to hitting the hero. And Bruce Willis won an Oscar and paid a few million bucks for being totally bullet proof, bomb proof and fireproof ( and, all the while, estranged from his wife.

Of course )

 

Then we mustn't forget the Bimbo cop head of the FBI team. All txts, teeth and gun.  "OK guys. Follow me. Shoot to kill " - " Yes ma'm "

 

Allan 

And you can blow up a plane about to take off by lighting a trail of aviation fuel left on the runway (in snow) using only a Zippo lighter.

 

Yes, the fuel WILL go Boom! when vapourised, ( see here 

) but initially lighting the trail would be an impossibility...

[Focalplane]

Might I ask for a brief moratorium on transatlantic (i.e. Hollywood) matters while so many people are suffering along the Texas Gulf Coast?  I was involved with three hurricanes, at least two tropical storms and near misses of tornados while living in Houston, with personal damage sustained by Alison (1982), Jerry (1989) and the wettest tropical storm ever on record until maybe this coming week.  All very sobering when face to face with the forces of nature.  Believe me, it would be reciprocated by Texans as witnessed during the aftermath of Katrina with their outreach to those made homeless in New Orleans.

[APOLLO]

Agree Focalplane, Mother Nature can be very beautiful, and also very cruel, sometimes both at the same time.

 

We are lucky in the UK that we are (mostly) spared from her most vicious manifestations.

 

Thoughts with those over in south Texas tonight. Good luck folks.

 

Brit15