Wright writes.....

[jamie92208]

If you know his date of death, then searching in http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventlisting.php on major accidents, LNWR and that year will narrow it down to one or two. In those days all the people who featured in accidents were named in the official reports, unlike today.

 

If you don't know where or when he died, it could be trickier. It's also possible that he died in what was known as a 'personnel accident', ie not involving a passenger train, and the reports on those are not yet on line.

Another avenue if you had the rough date of death would be to try and find the death certificate through Ancestry.com, also there would probably be local newspaper reports of the inquest. If the medal was one from the crown, eg George Medal then the London Gazette should have an entry. However I believe that Railway companies sometimes awarded their own medals as did the Royal Humane Society.

 

Jamie

[manna]

G'Day Gents

 

My Dad was on HMS Glory, based in Sydney in mid to late 1945, after the war finished, so very late 1945, they were ordered to sea, with most of there aircraft, Corsair's Hellcat's etc, under guard on the flight deck, some where off the coast of NSW, all there aircraft were man-handled to the catapult and shot off into the sea, unmanned, a few seconds after they hit the water, the ship crunched them to bits, it all had something to do with Lend/Lease.

 

manna

[blueeighties]

Good morning Tony. It was an absolute pleasure to meet you both at Pickering. I look forward to further enjoyable conversation same place next year, I'm sure the weeds and network will sadly be even worse :-(

 

Best

 

Lee

[jamie92208]

G'Day Gents

 

My Dad was on HMS Glory, based in Sydney in mid to late 1945, after the war finished, so very late 1945, they were ordered to sea, with most of there aircraft, Corsair's Hellcat's etc, under guard on the flight deck, some where off the coast of NSW, all there aircraft were man-handled to the catapult and shot off into the sea, unmanned, a few seconds after they hit the water, the ship crunched them to bits, it all had something to do with Lend/Lease.

 

manna

I've heard that somewhere before. IIRC if they were retained as serviceable by the UK we had to pay for them and we were virtually bankrupt. As far as I know Lend/Lease came about because we had spent a lot of our gold and foreign currency reserves in the early part of the war and Franklin Roosevelt came up with the idea of Lend/Lease to keep us supplied.

 

Jamie

[unclebobkt]

       ... .

 

  Sturdee becomes a national hero, is made a Baronet, is given a plum job in the Grand Fleet and, eventually, even gets an LMS Jubilee locomotive (45647) named after him.  Admiral Cradock - 'Poor Kit Cradock' - with his obsolescent ships "scraped off the dockyard wall" and hastily manned with unpracticed reservists, who took them gallantly into action off Coronel knowing he had neither the force to fight nor the speed to run away, has just a small plaque in a dark corner of Westminster Abbey.

 

        Reportedly Cradock said that he wished to die on either the hunting field or on the battlefield.

  His wish was granted at Coronel on 01 Nov. '14..    May he and all of his sailors rest in peace.

 

       

[unclebobkt]

I always liked Morning Star or even better Lode star. How about some proper names of Stars, like Sun Star, only the LNER already has that one. Canopus? no that's back to the battleship that beached at the Falkland islands mentioned above. How about Antares, Capella, Altair, even Bellatrix, or Betlegeuse. I would love a GWR loco called Betlegeuse.

 

  As an interesting aside - well, to some of us - many of the navigational stars have Arabic names, thanks to the Arabic/Moorish interests in Astrology, Astronomy and naval navigation..

         

          

[allan downes]

Just out of interest, has any one ever built, or even heard off, the late Barry Rackstraw's coach kits who was a friend of mine and operated out of Holmer's Green, Buckinghamshire.

 

Before he went into business, he was a pools collector agent and, it was through him, that I met Graham Beaumont - Jidenco Kits - who bought the original Pipers Mead layout off me which we extended later with all hand built track that was skillfully built by him and not viciously vandalised by me I might add !

 

Allan.

Edited August 21, 2017 by allan downes

[ecgtheow]

Another avenue if you had the rough date of death would be to try and find the death certificate through Ancestry.com, also there would probably be local newspaper reports of the inquest. If the medal was one from the crown, eg George Medal then the London Gazette should have an entry. However I believe that Railway companies sometimes awarded their own medals as did the Royal Humane Society.

 

Jamie

 

Many thanks to 4069 & Jamie. As is often the case oral family history can be misleading: on further investigation it's clear that my grandfather was an LNWR engine driver, but he died in 1943 when he was 74, which was news to me, so obviously the medal he got following an accident on the railway wasn't fatal for him at least. I still don't know anything about his time on the LNWR except that successive census records show that he started as an engine cleaner, then an engine stoker & lastly as an engine driver.

 

William Jenkins

[asmay2002]

Many thanks to 4069 & Jamie. As is often the case oral family history can be misleading: on further investigation it's clear that my grandfather was an LNWR engine driver, but he died in 1943 when he was 74, which was news to me, so obviously the medal he got following an accident on the railway wasn't fatal for him at least. I still don't know anything about his time on the LNWR except that successive census records show that he started as an engine cleaner, then an engine stoker & lastly as an engine driver.

 

William Jenkins

If a medal was presented to him it might be mentioned in a local newspaper for either the area where he worked from or where the acccident was (if they're not the same). 

Edited August 21, 2017 by asmay2002

[Willie Whizz]

One online source dates the pic as 1947 but judging by the weapons fit and aircraft that is wrong.  Definitely not while sailing from Australia to Vancouver etc with former PoWs as g her aircraft had been landed to enable the hangar decks to be converted into accommodation.

 

Judging by the uniforms I suspect the picture might date from immediately after refit in order to join the Pacific Fleet which dates it after 10 March 1945 (assuming the Wiki date is correct) which also matches the weapons fit and embarked aircraft types at that date while the conversion to for troop carrying means it would be before 24 August 1945.  However she also carried Seafires after the air group rejoined in January 1946, although they were again landed during a refit in march/April and retained them until June of that year when she arrived back in Home waters.  I might be wrong but the aircraft look like Seafires hence my previous comments about that type.

 

If anyone thinks identifying and dating Dean Goods or A3 Pacifics and other locos from black-and-white photographs is tricky, be assured that identifying specific warships of the same class and dating them can be just as challenging!

 

The key in the photograph of the carrier Implacable may be the darker colour of the lower part of the hull.  When the RN finally got back to the Pacific in late 1944, there were a number of changes to paint schemes of ships and aircraft to harmonise with the US Navy - probably to minimise the chances of sailors in that Navy reasoning that anything unfamiliar was certain to be hostile, so shooting first and asking afterward!  These changes included two-tone hulls, in  shades of either grey or blue or both, and although hulls were necessarily wholly or partly repainted every few months these patterns persisted for at least a couple of years after the War even in ships that had returned home and were being used for new roles.

 

One book in my possession has pictures of this particular vessel off Sydney in 1945 and in the English Channel in June 1946, wearing the earlier version, a simple rectangular block covering about 60% of the middle of the ship up to a level just below the Carley Floats in (probably) dark grey.  In the photo posted on this thread earlier, she has however the whole of the lower hull solidly painted in (probably) dark blue.

 

Looking at other pictures of the BPF in the same period, there seems to be no clear policy or practice as to which ships sported which schemes at which times and for how long, but I suspect the 'whole hull' scheme is later, and persisted longer post-war.  If, therefore, anyone is sufficiently interested and has reliable evidence of when Implacable changed livery, that will undoubtedly 'refine' the dating window.  My own guess is that the mooted "1947" could well be right, if it was fairly early in the year - possibly around when the ship escorted HMS Vanguard on the first leg of King George VI's Royal Tour of South Africa.  By the middle of the year she was refitting.

 

Implacable was unsuited to operate many post-war aircraft types (hanger height had been severely reduced to keep displacement within a pre-War treaty limit that was long-gone by the time she completed); and like all but one of her fellow armoured-hanger carriers, proposed reconstruction was cancelled largely on cost grounds and - less than a dozen years old - she went for scrap in 1955.

[mullie]

I've heard that somewhere before. IIRC if they were retained as serviceable by the UK we had to pay for them and we were virtually bankrupt. As far as I know Lend/Lease came about because we had spent a lot of our gold and foreign currency reserves in the early part of the war and Franklin Roosevelt came up with the idea of Lend/Lease to keep us supplied.

 

Jamie

The lend lease debt wasn't cleared until 2006 I believe.

[richard i]

The lend lease debt wasn't cleared until 2006 I believe.

Done by the USA to deliberately bankrupt the U.K. So they could complete their transformation into a world power. It was a continuation of Wilsons policy of breaking up the European empires after the First World War . His policy of self determination and freedom of the seas was not altruistic. the special relationship has not always been both ways. In fairness the U.K. Did burn down the president's house in 1812.

[Clive Mortimore]

Done by the USA to deliberately bankrupt the U.K. So they could complete their transformation into a world power. It was a continuation of Wilsons policy of breaking up the European empires after the First World War . His policy of self determination and freedom of the seas was not altruistic. the special relationship has not always been both ways. In fairness the U.K. Did burn down the president's house in 1812.

The best combined operations action ever. Well done to the Royal Navy and the Army. They didn't burn it down until after they had eaten his tea, that's how close we came to nearly capturing their president.   

 

Pity the we never shot that flag down at Baltimore during the same campaign, if we had we would not have to put up with "...the land of the brave and free". 

Edited August 21, 2017 by Clive Mortimore

[Enterprisingwestern]

The best combined operations action ever. Well done to the Royal Navy and the Army. They didn't burn it down until after they had eaten his tea, that's how close we came to nearly capturing their president.   

 

Could do with a repeat of that episode!

 

Mike.

[Tony Wright]

 Hope know one objects to my posting my question here but this site seems to be a nexus of LNER/ER knowledge and the subject - sighting boards - might be of interest to other.  Basically my question is: should the two up home signals in the attached photo have sighting boards and if so where should they be (on the bridge)?

Up Home Signal.jpg

Over the years on the various forum threads people have made many references to sighting boards.  However, when I go through my books on LNER or ER practice and I look at Google images, I think I can say that I may have only ever seen a couple in the 1:1 world.  I have found several pictures of the southern showing them but thats about it.

Thanks

Jim

Jim,

 

Sighting boards are (were) rare on the GN main line because French (the signalling engineer) insisted, where possible, on sky backgrounds to the boards - hence the preponderance of very tall signals, often (to reduce wind resistance) with lattice posts. 

[Tony Wright]

Good morning Tony. It was an absolute pleasure to meet you both at Pickering. I look forward to further enjoyable conversation same place next year, I'm sure the weeds and network will sadly be even worse :-(

 

Best

 

Lee

Thanks Lee,

 

It was a pleasure to meet you, too. May I please compliment you on the beautiful detailing, painting and (particularly) weathering on your diesel-outline models? They're some of the finest I've seen. 

 

It was remarkable how our conversations were so similar (you surely can't be a grumpy old git). The inexorable rise of RTR, the decline in folk making things, the greater number of 'non-modellers' who have work done for them (for whatever reason), the decline in interest in real railways, the increasing age of the participants in the hobby and so on - but the Pickering show was great fun. My thanks to all those who contributed to making it such a success. 

 

 

Along with the 3mm Irish layout, I thought this little N Gauge masterpiece was the best thing at the Pickering Show. 

 

 

 

Friend Steve (Atso) brought along his finished N Gauge D49 and K3 to be photographed. Thanks to all those running the North of England Line (another lovely N Gauge layout) for letting me interrupt operations to take these pictures. Steve's little locos are quite outstanding. 

 

 

Bob Dawson was at the show, as always, along with grandson Scott. His latest commission for me was this beautiful bridge over the M&GNR on LB. The fee? More pictures for his portfolio - horse-trading is really great! I couldn't wait to get back home, install it and take its picture. 

 

Speaking of taking pictures, has anyone else come across the problem of scrambled digital images? I took many pictures of Staly Vegas (what a great name), and, though they're fine when shown on the back of the camera, loading the card on to the computer results in duplicates of what's already been taken or just a scrambled mess. Bring back the darkroom! 

 

Fortunately, the pictures I took for the Railway Modeller of another N Gauge layout, in Workington last week all worked. 

 

Finally, thanks to all those who've contributed to the thread in my week's absence. I actually took some real railway pictures. 

 

 

Taken at Parton on the Cumbrian Coast last Wednesday. Perhaps some railway scenes of today aren't entirely boring. 

[Clearwater]

Work is currently taking me fairly frequently to South Wales. In Cardiff Central two weeks ago, I observed about 4 or 5 trains simultaneously including passing loco hauled freight trains. In Newport last THursday, I had an hour to wait which I whiled away working in the station cafe. In that time, I saw a steel train that was topped and tailed by a Class 66 and 60, another Class 66 come through light engine, a coal train (!) from Bristol Docks to Aberthaw, a Class 68 (I think) propelling a passenger train plus an assortment of DMUs and HSTs. It was quite lively all in all. That might be an unusual location mind. realtimetrains helped me anticipate when to look up...

 

Today I was at another loco hauled location - somewhat smaller stock though! The whistles all seem to come from main line classes which is a bit disconcerting when you hear an A4 chime and No6 appears from around the corner.

 

David

 

[micklner]

Thanks Lee,

 

It was a pleasure to meet you, too. May I please compliment you on the beautiful detailing, painting and (particularly) weathering on your diesel-outline models? They're some of the finest I've seen. 

 

It was remarkable how our conversations were so similar (you surely can't be a grumpy old git). The inexorable rise of RTR, the decline in folk making things, the greater number of 'non-modellers' who have work done for them (for whatever reason), the decline in interest in real railways, the increasing age of the participants in the hobby and so on - but the Pickering show was great fun. My thanks to all those who contributed to making it such a success. 

 

Staly Vegas 02.jpg

 

Along with the 3mm Irish layout, I thought this little N Gauge masterpiece was the best thing at the Pickering Show. 

 

Atso D49.jpg

 

Atso K3.jpg

 

Friend Steve (Atso) brought along his finished N Gauge D49 and K3 to be photographed. Thanks to all those running the North of England Line (another lovely N Gauge layout) for letting me interrupt operations to take these pictures. Steve's little locos are quite outstanding. 

 

Bob Dawson bridge 02.jpg

 

Bob Dawson was at the show, as always, along with grandson Scott. His latest commission for me was this beautiful bridge over the M&GNR on LB. The fee? More pictures for his portfolio - horse-trading is really great! I couldn't wait to get back home, install it and take its picture. 

 

Speaking of taking pictures, has anyone else come across the problem of scrambled digital images? I took many pictures of Staly Vegas (what a great name), and, though they're fine when shown on the back of the camera, loading the card on to the computer results in duplicates of what's already been taken or just a scrambled mess. Bring back the darkroom! 

 

Fortunately, the pictures I took for the Railway Modeller of another N Gauge layout, in Workington last week all worked. 

 

Finally, thanks to all those who've contributed to the thread in my week's absence. I actually took some real railway pictures. 

 

DSC_7603.JPG

 

Taken at Parton on the Cumbrian Coast last Wednesday. Perhaps some railway scenes of today aren't entirely boring. 

 

Scrambled images ? Try another SD Card that  maybe the culprit.

 

Suggestions here 

 

https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/6045/why-do-images-get-corrupted

[blueeighties]

Thanks Lee,

 

It was a pleasure to meet you, too. May I please compliment you on the beautiful detailing, painting and (particularly) weathering on your diesel-outline models? They're some of the finest I've seen. 

 

It was remarkable how our conversations were so similar (you surely can't be a grumpy old git). The inexorable rise of RTR, the decline in folk making things, the greater number of 'non-modellers' who have work done for them (for whatever reason), the decline in interest in real railways, the increasing age of the participants in the hobby and so on - but the Pickering show was great fun. My thanks to all those who contributed to making it such a success. 

 

Thanks Tony. Kind words indeed from a fellow modeller of so many bits and pieces I certainly couldn't solder together and produce such stunning models with.

My wife and daughter would, (after I showed them your comments) most definitely agree that I am quite competently developing my grumpy old git status. I'm quite happy with that, and proudly embrace it, and also wallow in wonderful nostalgia 

Speaking of nostalgia, I wonder if you have seen this piece of wonderful film? Captures so much, and so very apt today.

 

 

Best

 

Lee

[APOLLO]

You can also watch the above wonderful film on BBC iPlayer. A bit better quality.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p012d0t5/tuesday-documentary-engines-must-not-enter-the-potato-siding

 

One of my favorite films, I remember watching it on TV back in 1969.

 

Brit15

[Enterprisingwestern]

You can also watch the above wonderful film on BBC iPlayer. A bit better quality.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p012d0t5/tuesday-documentary-engines-must-not-enter-the-potato-siding

 

One of my favorite films, I remember watching it on TV back in 1969.

 

Brit15

 

, and I was nearly on it, stood at the south end of platform 2 at Sheffield Midland as the Brush 4 with the camera in the cab rolled past.

Watching the film will explain my disgust!

 

Mike.

[coachmann]

I worked the pubs and clubs in the North West in the late 50's - early 60's and that singer was typical. Full of innane quips (usually BR being late or BR pies) and couldn't sing for toffee. I'll bet the clubs hadn't changed since the turn of the Century. I used to sit behind the piano studying peoples behavior. Some sat in the same chair at the same table every week doing the same thing. Folk only wanted that after the war. Some leaned on the bar building a lathe (talking wark)  and there were the young 'Teds' with their 'back-combed' blondes trying to look cool while marking a housy-housy card. When someone shouted "house" everyone else carried that look that said it all.......  "Better luck next week Doris". 

 

Those railwaymen discussing steam v diesel v electric were on their best behavior for the camera. "Yer talking rubbish" really meant ###### on shed. On an almost predominantly steam shed, driving a diesel shunter was the equivalent of going to Coventry and there was less animosity towards the rent collector or Coop man.  They sat in a corner of the canteen away from everyone. That's where they were in the yard, isolated in their little cab unlike the 'hardies' on their open footplates waving to other crew's and any young birds on the platform. 'Look at them soft ######' one of my drivers said when the equivalent of an 08 sidled past us...."White shirts and a bloomin' cooker......Life of ruddy Riley..........the bas......!"

 

Another lost world.

Edited August 22, 2017 by coachmann

[Porcy Mane]

Watching the film will explain my disgust!

 

So you didn't "smile for the birdie".

[St Enodoc]

I worked the pubs and clubs in the North West in the late 50's - early 60's and that singer was typical. Full of innane quips (usually BR being late or BR pies) and couldn't sing for toffee. I'll bet the clubs hadn't changed since the turn of the Century. I used to sit behind the piano studying peoples behavior. Some sat in the same chair at the same table every week doing the same thing. Folk only wanted that after the war. Some leaned on the bar building a lathe (talking wark)  and there were the young 'Teds' with their 'back-combed' blondes trying to look cool while marking a housy-housy card. When someone shouted "house" everyone else carried that look that said it all.......  "Better luck next week Doris". 

 

Those railwaymen discussing steam v diesel v electric were on their best behavior for the camera. "Yer talking rubbish" really meant ###### on shed. On an almost predominantly steam shed, driving a diesel shunter was the equivalent of going to Coventry and there was less animosity towards the rent collector or Coop man.  They sat in a corner of the canteen away from everyone. That's where they were in the yard, isolated in their little cab unlike the 'hardies' on their open footplates waving to other crew's and any young birds on the platform. 'Look at them soft ######' one of my drivers said when the equivalent of an 08 sidled past us...."White shirts and a bloomin' cooker......Life of ruddy Riley..........the bas......!"

 

Another lost world.

When we were students in Leeds we sometimes went for a pint at the Dyneley Arms at the top of Pool Bank. There was a bloke on the Hammond organ who had the rare gift of making all the songs sound the same, so you could sing along with whatever words you liked and they would fit perfectly.

[Enterprisingwestern]

So you didn't "smile for the birdie".

 

I did, but it was edited out, can't think why.

 

Mike.