Wright writes.....

[Jesse Sim]

Hiya Tony, 

 

only just caught up, been flat chat lately. 

 

How is Mo doing? I only just seen the last few pages. 

 

I know you may not be able to help me, but I am wondering if anyone else of this thread can. 

 

I just built up a Parkside GWR Bloater Fish Van. I've painted it and placed the transfers, but I'm a little confused on the weight and tare weight that goes in the bottom right of the wagon. 

 

So if anyone can help I wish to know, what was the bloater vans tonnage and its tare weight? Please and thank you. 

 

 

Jesse

 

[St Enodoc]

Hiya Tony, 

 

only just caught up, been flat chat lately. 

 

How is Mo doing? I only just seen the last few pages. 

 

I know you may not be able to help me, but I am wondering if anyone else of this thread can. 

 

I just built up a Parkside GWR Bloater Fish Van. I've painted it and placed the transfers, but I'm a little confused on the weight and tare weight that goes in the bottom right of the wagon. 

 

So if anyone can help I wish to know, what was the bloater vans tonnage and its tare weight? Please and thank you. 

 

IMG_0565.JPG

 

Jesse

If nobody else replies first I'll try to rememebr to look it up when I get back to Sydney.

[Tony Wright]

Naming of locomotives has always been a fascinating subject.

 

I think it's fair to say that the LNER's choice to name some of its most prestigious locos after racehorses resulted in some of the most quirky epithets ever bestowed on anything (apart from equine speedsters). All were flat racers - no jumpers were ever commemorated, and most had won a Classic. 

 

What's interesting is that the major pair of the ECML constituents at the Grouping had hardly named any of their locos. I think the GNR and the NER had one each. 

 

Whatever the reasons, it was a wonderful choice, resulting in some delightful absurdities - PRETTY POLLY being my 'favourite'. 

 

60108 has been mentioned. 60 years ago, when it was a regular through Retford it was greeted with glee at first sighting, then disdain on subsequent occasions. Could a loco be named that today? If so (and apologies if this appears flippant) it could be SEXUALLY-AMBIVALENT SOLDIER (non gender-specific) ON A MISSION FOR CHRIST. Doesn't have the same 'ring' to it to me!

 

The decision (and this is one of the reasons why I loath pomposity) to rename some of the A4s from birds to (largely-anonymous) directors and a military figure towards the end of the LNER's existence was weak in my opinion. PEREGRINE - the fastest creature on the planet, to some late Lord; I think not. 

 

I learned lots as a kid from the Jubilee names, and a bit of history from the Kings (the names were in the reverse order of accession when the class was built). 

 

When we moved over here, all the 91s were named (with horrid, stick-on, lower-case vinyls) and some were apposite. A few are named differently now. 

 

I think, in my opinion, the very worst example of more-modern naming I saw was at Wolverhampton, right at the end of the century, when an HST came in carrying the name - wait for it - THE RED NOSE!

[rowanj]

Naming of locomotives has always been a fascinating subject.

 

 

 

The decision (and this is one of the reasons why I loath pomposity) to rename some of the A4s from birds to (largely-anonymous) directors and a military figure towards the end of the LNER's existence was weak in my opinion. PEREGRINE - the fastest creature on the planet, to some late Lord; I think not. 

 

I learned lots as a kid from the Jubilee names, and a bit of history from the Kings (the names were in the reverse order of accession when the class was built). 

 

 

 

Good morning, Tony. I trust your wife continues to improve.

 

I don't dispute that the original A4 names had a better "ring" to them than some of those of the directors. Having said that, it seems to me that, in the immediate post-war and pre-nationalistion era, it was entirely appropriate for the LNER to recognise the service of its; senior figures on their leading loco class. Sir Ralph, of course, had already had the honour, only to lose it at York !

 

As for being anonymous, most of these figures were very prominent in their day. A simple Google search reveals them as the equivalents of modern-day captains of industry (though I suppose some folk wont find that much of an accolade). Research into them may be as interesting to a social historian as the location of Bihar and Orissa.

 

John

[Chamby]

Naming of locomotives has always been a fascinating subject.

 

I think it's fair to say that the LNER's choice to name some of its most prestigious locos after racehorses resulted in some of the most quirky epithets ever bestowed on anything (apart from equine speedsters). All were flat racers - no jumpers were ever commemorated, and most had won a Classic.

 

What's interesting is that the major pair of the ECML constituents at the Grouping had hardly named any of their locos. I think the GNR and the NER had one each.

 

Whatever the reasons, it was a wonderful choice, resulting in some delightful absurdities - PRETTY POLLY being my 'favourite'.

 

60108 has been mentioned. 60 years ago, when it was a regular through Retford it was greeted with glee at first sighting, then disdain on subsequent occasions. Could a loco be named that today? If so (and apologies if this appears flippant) it could be SEXUALLY-AMBIVALENT SOLDIER (non gender-specific) ON A MISSION FOR CHRIST. Doesn't have the same 'ring' to it to me!

 

The decision (and this is one of the reasons why I loath pomposity) to rename some of the A4s from birds to (largely-anonymous) directors and a military figure towards the end of the LNER's existence was weak in my opinion. PEREGRINE - the fastest creature on the planet, to some late Lord; I think not.

 

I learned lots as a kid from the Jubilee names, and a bit of history from the Kings (the names were in the reverse order of accession when the class was built).

 

When we moved over here, all the 91s were named (with horrid, stick-on, lower-case vinyls) and some were apposite. A few are named differently now.

 

I think, in my opinion, the very worst example of more-modern naming I saw was at Wolverhampton, right at the end of the century, when an HST came in carrying the name - wait for it - THE RED NOSE!

. I think the modern translation for 60108 would be more like ‘LGBT Activist’. Not that it would have had this meaning at naming of course. I think it not impossible that a modern locomotive might even be given such a name, in the spirit of celebrating diversity... how times have changed!

 

For me, some of the best names were given to the D11/2’s: ‘Wizard Of The Moor’... ‘Lady Of The Lake’ and ‘The Fiery Cross’ all get the imagination going.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Chamby

[thegreenhowards]

Here goes, then..................

 

I've organised the list in class order, with a brief description of the origin of each loco. In most cases, any painting of the big green engines (and some of the lined black ones) has been undertaken by Ian Rathbone, and, more recently, Geoff Haynes. And, in almost every case of a listed kit-built or modified loco, it is my work. Which proves, if nothing else, after over 40 years of building locos, one can end up with quite a few! 

 

A1/1 60113 Crownline.

A1 60114 DJH

A1 60116 DJH

A1 60117 DJH

A1 60120 Pro-Scale

A1 60121 DJH

A1 60125 Modified Bachmann

A1 60128 DJH

A1 60130 DJH

A1 60136 DJH

A1 60146 Crownline

A1 60149 Wills adaptation

A1 60155 DJH

A1 60156 DJH

A2 60526 DJH (to be painted)

A2 60528 DJH

A2 60532 Wills

A2 60533 Crownline

A2 60538 Modified Bachmann

A2 60539 DJH

A2/1 60508 Jamieson hand-cut kit

A2/1 60510 Nu-Cast

A2/2 60501 DJH (prototype)

A2/2 60504 Crownline

A2/2 60506 DJH

A2/3 60500 Crownline

A2/3 60513 DJH

A2/3 60515 Bachmann/King conversion

A2/3 60516 DJH

A2/3 60523 DJH (to be completed and painted)

A3 60039 Wills

A3 60048 Wills

A3 60054 modified Hornby

A3 60063 SE Finecast

A3 60077 modified Hornby

A3 60080 DJH

A3 60103 Wills

A3 60104 DJH

A4 60002 modified Bachmann - new tender

A4 60008 modified Hornby

A4 60014 Wills

A4 60017 SE Finecast

A4 60018 modified Hornby

A4 60026 SE Finecast

A4 60027 Golden Age

A4 60030 SE Finecast

A4 60034 modified Bachmann - new chassis, new tender

A5 69800 Craftsman

B1 61022 modified RTR - new chassis

B1 61028 modified RTR - new chassis

B1 61033 Jamieson

B1 61159 modified RTR - new chassis

B1 61175 modified Hornby

B1 61206 modified RTR- new chassis

B1 61208 Nu-Cast

B1 61231 modified RTR - new chassis

B12/3 61530 PDK

B12/3 61552 Coopercraft

B16/1 61416 DJH

B16/1 61477 PDK

B16/2 61437 PDK

B16/3 61448 Nu-Cast

B16/3 61454 PDK

B17 61620 Crownline/PDK

J6 64174 LRM

J6 64190 Nu-Cast

J6 64234 WSM

J11/1 64354 Little Engines

J11/3 64413 Little Engines

J39 64747 Anchorage

J39 64790 Wills

K1 62038 Nu-Cast

K1 62070 PDK

K2 61738 LRM

K2 61745 Nu-Cast

K2 61759 Nu-Cast

K3 61812 Bachmann/SE Finecast/LRM

K3 61825 SE Finecast

K3 61832 Anchorage

K3 61907 modified Bachmann

K3 61975 modified Bachmann

K5 61863 Wills/scratch

L1 67781 ECJM

L1 67800 modified Hornby

N2 69521 modified Airfix - new chassis

O2 (all sub classes) 62925 PDK

63927 Nu-Cast

63934 Ace

63937 modified Heljan

63980 Nu-Cast

63987 modified Heljan

O4 and O1 (all sub classes) 63585 Little Engines

63652 modified Hornby

63701 K's

63707 Little Engines

63738 K's/scratch

63777 scratch

63786 modified Hornby

63843 Little Engines

V2 60800 Crownline

V2 60820 Jamieson

V2 60821 Jamieson

V2 60837 Graeme King/Comet/Bachmann

V2 60852 Crownline

V2 60858 Graeme King/Comet/Bachmann

V2 60905 Nu-Cast

V2 60943 Nu-Cast

W1 60700 SE Finecast

7MT 70003 DJH

7MT 70036 modified Hornby

7MT 70054 modified Hornby - new chassis

5MT 73069 DJH

5MT 73159 modified Bachmann

WD 90040 DJH

WD 90146 DJH

WD 90299 DJH

9F 92042 Model Loco

9F 92044 modified Bachmann

9F 92167 DJH

9F 92192 modified Bachmann

9F 92196 Kitmaster/Crownline/Dave Alexander

 

All of these work on the ECML bit of LB. I haven't listed those locos running exclusively on the MR/M&GNR bit, nor any diesels. 

 

There are probably several mistakes and omissions.

 

Tony,

 

Great list. I used to really look forward to the stock list in RM, and I think there would still be a place for it on some layouts - they’re not all 100% RTR. However, it sadly seems to have been dropped completely.

 

I make it 47 (tender) Pacifics on your list...only 155 to go, better get building!

 

On the subject of lists, I appreciate you might draw the line at Jesse’s suggestion on wagons, but a list of the trains you run, both passenger and goods with notes on the provenance of the interesting vehicles would be fascinating.

 

Andy

[Tony Wright]

Good morning, Tony. I trust your wife continues to improve.

 

I don't dispute that the original A4 names had a better "ring" to them than some of those of the directors. Having said that, it seems to me that, in the immediate post-war and pre-nationalistion era, it was entirely appropriate for the LNER to recognise the service of its; senior figures on their leading loco class. Sir Ralph, of course, had already had the honour, only to lose it at York !

 

As for being anonymous, most of these figures were very prominent in their day. A simple Google search reveals them as the equivalents of modern-day captains of industry (though I suppose some folk wont find that much of an accolade). Research into them may be as interesting to a social historian as the location of Bihar and Orissa.

 

John

Thank you John; Mo is a lot better,

 

You might be right as well.............

 

However, I state again, which do you think is the more appropriate name for a locomotive belonging to the fastest class of steam locomotives in the world; PEREGRINE or LORD FARINGDON? 

 

I agree, some of the bird names were a bit of a strange choice, and I suppose as many knew who SIR CHARLES NEWTON was as what a CAPERCAILLIE was (the latter, hardly a bird of 'swift and powerful flight'). Was Sir Charles a sprinter? Peppercorn was certainly a sportsman. 

 

Ironically, the Mallard isn't the fastest of birds (isn't it strange that swift or swallow were not used?) but to lose names such as OSPREY, KESTREL, SEA EAGLE and PEREGRINE to 'captains of industry' doesn't seem quite right to me (thankfully, they were re-used on the A1s). Anyway, I'll bet any passenger walking by the loco which has just brought his/her train in at Kings Cross would know what the birds were; far more so than the likes of MILES BEEVOR. Do you think that's a more appropriate name for a speedster than KESTREL? I don't, and that's said with respect for the Beevor family. 

 

As for other naming policies on the LNER, surely some of the B1s are the most 'ridiculous'. Several commemorate the same beast (just a different, parochial name for the same animal) and one or two might not exist. Even lesser-known LNER directors had their names stuck on some B1s.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Edited to not appear rude............... 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

Great list. I used to really look forward to the stock list in RM, and I think there would still be a place for it on some layouts - they’re not all 100% RTR. However, it sadly seems to have been dropped completely.

 

I make it 47 (tender) Pacifics on your list...only 155 to go, better get building!

 

On the subject of lists, I appreciate you might draw the line at Jesse’s suggestion on wagons, but a list of the trains you run, both passenger and goods with notes on the provenance of the interesting vehicles would be fascinating.

 

Andy

Thanks Andy,

 

It's a good job I'm retired!

 

That said, I've a meeting with the Irwell chaps in London next week to discuss three further books from me this year. I'll probably take on the editorship of the LNER Society Journal, Booklaw seem to want as many books as I can write and the editors of BRM and the RM are more than happy to accept anything I write. 

 

On top of that, I've got models to build and layout photographs to take, not to mention my appearances at shows and a trip to France and Australia scheduled for this year.

 

Have I really retired?

 

A list of what you request might be a little time coming, I'm afraid..............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks Andy,

 

A list of what you request might be a little time coming, I'm afraid..............

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

....one for when you really retire?!

[APOLLO]

Yes definitely the LNER and later BR (E) bestowed superb names to their locomotives. The LMS did well with their Jubilees and Duchesses, Scots & Pats, SR with their Spam Cans and not least the GWR Kings, Castles, Granges, Halls & Manors. All were (in my mind) suitable names for locomotives.

 

In the BR era the Britannias (and the solitary Duke), the few named southern standards & Clans were great name choices also. Diesel classes (at first) were suitable, Warships, Westerns, Big D's (40's) and of course, the best of the lot - the unforgettable mighty Deltics.

 

The naming rot set in (for me) with sectorisation etc, and just worsened over time. Naming locos after power stations, loco sheds, etc just made it a mockery. One or two examples bucked the trend in recent years, the best I think was the GBRf loco "Valour".

 

 

Edited to add - The Forward plaque is the old Great Central railway coat of arms. The loco was named at the side of the hotel on the site of the old Sheffield Victoria station a couple of years ago. The hotel and the GC Rly Society sponsored the naming. The original GC loco "Valour" commemorated fallen GC railway employees, the GBRf loco commemorates all railway employees - a very proper thing to do.

 

Brit15

Edited February 8, 2018 by APOLLO

[Clearwater]

On names, the 2017 Derby winner “Wings of Eagles” would work. Some other recent winners: Sir Percy (2006), North Light (2004) or Camelot (2012).

 

Given how language has changed, wouldn’t Gay Crusader become “Happy Chappy?”

[jacko]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that 'Sir William A Stanier F.R.S.'  could have lost four initials and had just as much impact.

[Lecorbusier]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that 'Sir William A Stanier F.R.S.'  could have lost four initials and had just as much impact.

I would prefer just plain old William Stanier ...but that's just me. If more official awards were offered for real achievement/service I suspect I would regard them with greater fondness.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[Clearwater]

Duplicate

Edited February 8, 2018 by Clearwater

[thegreenhowards]

The front can lift on Hornby's, if the bogie fixing bracket is bent even slightly, a fairly common occurrence on some Hornby's. You also need to ensure the bracket sits correctly on the bogie location bracket underneath the Cylinders. I tried one set of Markits on one of mine instant derailment !!. I haven't bothered again.

 

Pick ups on any Pacific and similar Locos are unnecessary the Loco wheelbase clears any sort up point easily.

 

I haven't bothered to try as I have no need for long trains, but I am sure that Hornby's  Cock O' The North would manage a good number of Coaches if needed.

Mick,

 

I’ve had the same experience with Markits bogie wheels. Not instant derailment, but often enough to be annoying. I have two locos so fitted, but won’t be doing any more.

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

Many thanks, and a good point.

 

There are still too many round-roundies, with no trains terminating and no locos changing where still no lamps are displayed. 

 

Where one has a terminus, I wonder which is more incorrect. A train (set) with no rear lamp, or (red) lamps attached to both ends, all the time? 

 

The hand of God? Surely it's no more difficult to fiddle with lamps on locos than it is to fiddle with screw/three-link couplings?

 

I admit, I'm lucky, in that all the trains on LB (apart from the pick-ups) are fixed formations, and it's therefore easier to display lamps.

 

In my opinion, for terminating stations, it’s far better to have a lamp on both ends of a rake of coaches than to have no lamp at all. The front lamp is largely hidden by the loco until the loco runs round, at which point it’s needed. I wouldn’t advocate the hand of god moving the lamp from one end to the other - too fiddly for my clumsy fingers!

 

Does anyone have a better solution?

 

Andy

[St Enodoc]

In my opinion, for terminating stations, it’s far better to have a lamp on both ends of a rake of coaches than to have no lamp at all. The front lamp is largely hidden by the loco until the loco runs round, at which point it’s needed. I wouldn’t advocate the hand of god moving the lamp from one end to the other - too fiddly for my clumsy fingers!

 

Does anyone have a better solution?

 

Andy

I like the Bachmann BR Mk 1 solution - a lamp permanently fixed to the gangway cover. Use one of those, together with another with the lamp cut off, and just swap them round after each run.

[Jon4470]

Thanks Andy,

 

 

 

Have I really retired?

 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

Tony

I think that there is a saying that goes something like “ if you do a job that you enjoy then you never work another day in your life”.

 

Jon

[Lecorbusier]

Tony

I think that there is a saying that goes something like “ if you do a job that you enjoy then you never work another day in your life”.

 

Jon

There is also a saying that suggests you have to retire at some point to do all the work that working prevents you from doing. Its amazing how much more productive many I know who are retired than those at work (including what they achieve at work!) .... now must get back to work.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Lecorbusier

[drmditch]

Re: Locomotive naming and 4468. 

 

Isn't the Eider the fastest British duck?

 

(But perhaps that would only be 'down' hill?)

Edited February 8, 2018 by drmditch

[thegreenhowards]

I like the Bachmann BR Mk 1 solution - a lamp permanently fixed to the gangway cover. Use one of those, together with another with the lamp cut off, and just swap them round after each run.

That’s a good idea. Now I need to convert that thinking to non corridor stock (Kirk quad arts, Hornby Thompsons and Bachmann non corridor Mark 1s), which is the only type which terminates on my current layout. Could be difficult!

[Bucoops]

Re: Locomotive naming and 4468. 

 

Isn't the Eider the fastest British duck?

 

(But perhaps that would only be 'down' hill?)

 

You're quackers.

[jamie92208]

It wasn't just locos that got named after captains of industry.   Next to the site of Ardsley Loco Sheds is one of the three disconnected parts of the village of Thorpe. The village was cut up when they built the M62. One of the Streets is Oakley Street.   However I haven't enough knowledge to know if Stanhope Grove has a similar connection.

 

Jamie

[Enterprisingwestern]

In my opinion, for terminating stations, it’s far better to have a lamp on both ends of a rake of coaches than to have no lamp at all. The front lamp is largely hidden by the loco until the loco runs round, at which point it’s needed. I wouldn’t advocate the hand of god moving the lamp from one end to the other - too fiddly for my clumsy fingers!

 

Does anyone have a better solution?

 

Andy

 

Only build through stations?

 

Mike.

[Tony Wright]

Mick,

 

I’ve had the same experience with Markits bogie wheels. Not instant derailment, but often enough to be annoying. I have two locos so fitted, but won’t be doing any more.

 

Andy

I can only speak on this matter as I find.

 

Just about every locomotive on the list I produced yesterday has Romford/Markits bogie/pony wheels (as appropriate), including every modified RTR loco. 

 

Though it would be stupid of me to state I never get bogie/pony derailments, they are very, very rare (as you'll bear witness, Andy). 

 

I wonder why? Is it because my track is well made and well-laid, that no curve (on the main running lines) is less than 3' in radius and every fiddle yard point (apart from in some sidings) is the largest RTL radius? 

 

I've personally fiddled with too many layouts where too much track has tried to be crammed in (particularly in fiddle yards), resulting in too-tight radii on plain track and points of too-sharp a radii for each road. This results in poor running and too frequent derailments. 

 

Andy, I'm not suggesting you've got those faults (nor Micklner), but might I suggest you look at your trackwork before abandoning Markits bogie/pony wheels out of hand? Hornby's bogie pony wheels are just too clunky, and bear little resemblance to the real things - wheel centres, spokes, rims, etc. They're designed for train set curves, and they work fine for those but they do look pretty poor, especially in photographs. Bachmann's bogie/pony wheels are better, though they're still best replaced.