Uninspiring Exhibitions

[davefrk]

Hi, I think we 're getting away from the OP's point regarding the treatment she got from a trader. There are an increasing number of female modellers whether it be railway, ship or even dolls house it doesn't matter, so why did this clown of a trader act the way he did? Obviously he has a downer on female modellers asking 'proper' questions.

I know when we had a retail tradestand we had a number of regular female customers, most were very knowledgeable, some who asked specialist questions which we would try to answer and others who brought along a model they were having problems with and would be very grateful for a few words explaining what the instructions actually meant. Notice something here?.... This could apply to males as well. Some males who maybe didn't take techie subjects at school just haven't got a clue. We would try to help them just the same sometimes you would get a thankyou other times not.....

I feel for the OP and my own wife has had similar from a demonstrator recently but it can work the other way round too with male modellers hovering around to ask me for something after being offered help from my wife only for me to ask her if we had the item, ''ha ha you could have been served five minutes ago'', I know Valerie and Colin Ashby would also take great pleasure in doing this, do these gentlemen think the fairer sex knows nothing after being around the hobby for twenty years?

Anyway must get on tidying the workshop for a visitation on Tuesday.

 

All the best,

Dave Franks

[davefrk]

Then what I've bought from you at a show must have been longer ago than I remember

 

Hi John, sorry I don't know know your full name, but it would be nearly four years since we sold the retail side of the business to Nigel Burkin and he renamed it 'Nairnshire Modelling Supplies'. We kept the manufacturing side and now only do the EMGS North show so that might be where you saw us more recently. We now do our trading on the internet as I can no longer humph boxes about....

 

Dave Franks

[Coombe Barton]

Hi John, sorry I don't know know your full name, but it would be nearly four years since we sold the retail side of the business to Nigel Burkin and he renamed it 'Nairnshire Modelling Supplies'. We kept the manufacturing side and now only do the EMGS North show so that might be where you saw us more recently. We now do our trading on the internet as I can no longer humph boxes about....

 

Dave Franks

Then probably EMGS North.

[Legend]

Well I went to Falkirk show yesterday, and I do see what Julia means. I was a little dissappointed in the show as ot seemed to be a bit "samey". However I still enjoyed it and spent an hour or so there.The admission I think was £4 or £4.50 which I thought was reasonable ,and it included the programme, which in some cases is charged seperately. So for £4.50 I spent an enjoyable hourr. Where else can you get that entertainment at that price - certainly not a football match!

 

In Falkirks case I felt there were too many US layouts (at least 4). The big roundy- roundy, Invercarron (?) has been on the go for a good few years now, although I did enoy the dcc sounds . First time I'd heard the unmistakeable sound of a 350.

 

Traders were all selling the same stuff. Again too many of the same type

 

So overall i'd say 6/10. But maybe our expectations are too high.

[Guest]

Interesting thread, one that seems to have branched off into the standard of/attitude from some exhibitions/exhibitors and the "place" of women in the hobby.

 

On the first count, I have to agree with much of what has been written: some exhibitions I've been to really have been nothing more than a string of straight-out-of-the-box baseboards lumped together in a school hall. These are often presented as what the average modeller can achieve with modern proprietary equipment. True. As though we didn't know that already.

 

As for attitude, I remember being at one large exhibition some years ago which boasted a simple large double oval of 0-gauge track with open fiddle yard. No scenery, not even any ballast on the track. But that was fine: it was being presented, according to the programme, as a showcase for 0-scale models. In that, it succeeded well. The stock was superb, there was always something running and I'm sure many modellers went away sorely tempted by a change of scale. It was the attitude of one of the operators on this layout, though, that did nothing to help any such decision making process.

 

He was a self-important, red-faced little man who obviously relished his moment of glory, bustling around with stock, issuing orders (which were by and large ignored by the others) and generally making sure that everyone knew he was there. On the other side of the baseboard was a teenage lad watching - for some considerable time, as I recall - and at a convenient point in the proceedings, he asked something. Very politely. The conversation went something like this:

 

'Excuse me, mister. Where can I buy engines like these?'

 

'Buy?' The red face spat the word with about as much venom as it could muster. 'Buy! You can't buy these! These are handbuilt! That Compound over there took someone seven years! What do you mean, buy?'

 

- and he launched into a long lecture about fine scale standards and nickel silver sheet and...well, you can probably guess the rest. I'd seen enough and I left. Whether or not that lad ever took up railway modelling, I never knew, but it has long been my hope that he wasn't put off by a single act of pomposity that should have excluded the perpetrator from exhibiting for life. I've helped out at a couple of exhibitions and one thing I was warned right from the start is that, at exhibitions, we are ambassadors for our hobby. This seems to be something that the gentleman that Julia encountered seems to have forgotten. Maybe he should be reminded of his reponsibilities, and I am in full agreement with an earlier post about naming and shaming.

 

Women in the hobby. I'm sure I'm like most people on this forum: a member's gender matters less to me than their modelling, and there has been some truly stunning modelling from both sides. Women come into the hobby via many routes. Take my own lovely wife. She knew of my interests, tolerated them and even dragged round the railway museum at Odense with me for a day while I enthused about outside Stephenson's valve gear and the like. She joined me on the first runs of the steam specials recently introduced here. And she's followed my getting to grips with 3D Printing of rolling stock. There is a spark of interest there, one that was recently given a little fanning.

 

Her daughter was doing a school project on transport and had chosen railways. With train-mad stepfather, of course she would. Walking encyclopaedia, that's me. Anyway, wife was passing the local toy shop and popped in to see if they had anything that might help in the school presentation. She came away with a second-hand Wilesco D5, brought it home and presented it to me to get working. It was fine. It had been run once and then oiled down and stored as being "too difficult" to deal with, according to the toy shop owner. I reassembled it, fired it up, flicked the flywheel and Hey, Presto! I have to tell you, she was fascinated by it. This simple, basic, even fairly crude steam engine was a living monster that held her spellbound. I think she understands me a little better now, and while I don't think she will ever get around to building an etched brass kit, the support for what I'm doing in my spare time is certainly now greater.

 

We need everyone in this hobby. With what we're up against with computer games, social network sites, etc., we need them in order to remind everyone that it is still possible to do something worthwhile with one's hands.

[RJS1977]

When I first started attending exhibitions they were organised a bit like the local flower show. The local club hired a local hall, or very often the local headmaster was sympathetic. All the exhibitors including traders were part of the show and all were included in lunches etc.

 

Then the costs started to rise, costs of halls went up, health and safety came in and I'm pretty certain that organising an exhibition must have become a nightmare. Instead of the landlord saying you can use the kitchen as long as it's washed up and put away, exhibitions had to use the overpriced franchisee and that has put a huge amount into the cost of running a show.

 

At one exhibition we were given two tea tickets, so I took our mugs and tickets. Oh they said you have to have one of our plastic cups, so they brewed my tea in their cup and poured it with the teabag into my mug. You've guessed it only half filled the mug, more hot water? No you have to pay for a second cup of tea! How is an exhibition manager supposed to deal with this? We had already been warned not to let the hall owners see us eating our sandwiches behind the stand because own food was not allowed!

 

I have heard that the expenses expected by layout owners have also got expensive. I really worry that if this spiral continues the local model railway exhibition will be strangled to death.

 

Roger

 

Roger

 

I can't help feeling that your comments about halls are somewhat of a generalisation. From my own experience the "local hall and volunteer catering" model is alive and well on the local level - not only is my own show organised that way, but most of the other smaller shows I attend seem to be run on similar lines, including (but by no means limited to) most of those organised by the 009 Society Area Groups - and I would say it's these local shows that are probably the "shop window" for those outside the hobby attending their first exhibition just because they've seen it in the paper.

 

The "franchisee catering" tends to apply more to the medium-size (regional?) and upwards events (in my area those that would fit the category for that model are Basingstoke and Wycrail, though this is by no means a criticism of either of those splendid events), and tend to be the ones held in newer schools or leisure centres etc (though even some of those still have volunteer catering). Though I'd say they're still in the minority - certainly based on a sample of the 20 or shows I attend over the course of a year.

 

As regards exhibitors' expenses, yes they can be an absolute minefield! At my show a few years ago one exhibitor who only lived 5 miles or so away wanted £20 travelling expenses, but someone who'd brought two layouts from twice as far away didn't want anything as we were "just up the road"! Likewise a couple of years ago a local club told me before the show it would be "just petrol", then asked for £40 on the day! :-(

 

No, it's not always easy recruiting "talent" but at the show I'm doing next February the only "repeat" layouts are the Kiddie layouts and the one on the CWR publicity stand I'll be manning. As for variety, the "cast list" includes a American, African and Spanish layouts, trams and narrow gauge, so there should be something for everyone! (And I've got a mounting pile of "info leaflets" for when I start planning for 2014!).

 

Richard

[trisonic]

This whole thread has reminded me of just why I'm not a model railway club kind of guy. I admit I may have been unluckier than most in my experiences, though....

 

Best, Pete.

[scouser]

Hmmm. there seems to be two points being aired here. The type and quality of exhibitions is something Pete Waterman wrote a very good editorial about, in one of the main stream mags, some time back. I was at the Warley show yesterday and had several people tell me they thought the general quality of layouts was poor. There were obvious exceptions, Florida City for one, but unfortunately they were the exceptions.

I prefer layouts that emulate the real thing in operation as well as looks, these seem to be in the minority.

One important thing that should not be debatable is, that if you charge people an entry fee, you have to think of them first. The mates in the club come second. If you don't like this then don't charge a fee, then you can do what you like.

As for the troll Julia had to deal with, these morons are not confined to model railway shows. I wouldn't mind betting she has had similar treatment at garages, I know my daughter has.

Strange how the more superior people think they are the stupider they seem to be.

Paul

[rodshaw]

Maybe if rude and ignorant traders or exhibitors were confronted at the time, they might be inclined to shape up a bit.

 

"Are you seriously telling me that this is the new roller gauge for OO? Are you the proprietor? I suggest you won't remain in business long unless you get your facts right and stop being so rude".

 

Etc. I know it's difficult to complain at the time rather than after the event, I'm hopeless at it, but a little presence of mind can go a long way, and make you feel much better.

[PatB]

Regarding the quality of exhibitions, you folk in the UK should think yourselves lucky . If you go and find it's a dud, at least you've a good chance of trying a different one the following weekend. Here we get one show a year and that's yer lot. Also, being (literally) several thousand miles from anywhere else with a substantial modelling population, the layouts on show are all local but, also because of the tyranny of distance and lack of exhibitions, there is only limited motivation for individuals and clubs to build new exhibition layouts.

 

The net result, through no fault of those who organise or exhibit, is that what is on show every June does not vary a great deal from year to year. That said, there are some real gems which turn up so it's still worth going .

 

So I get most of my layout drooling jollies online. Thank you RMWeb.

[Donw]

A friend used to organise "Railways Days" in the garden. The money raised went to charity. As they proved popular the council got interested and wanted to charge a fee to inspect the kitchen to see it was up to standard then the fire briagade wanted to do the same to check fire safety. Probably just doing their job but Pete and Ann decided it just wasn't worth it. Lots of people missed the days, charities missed the money and a lot of kids no longer get inspired by the hobby. Bad result I feel.

Don

[br2975]

 

The problem is partly in the club structure - unless you have strong leadership drive vision and enthusiasm in a group building a layout then you will end up with a layout like these, built to the lowest common denominator. If you have this leadership and drive- and I'll quote Dewsbury Midland as a case in point then you can have a real winner. Its not hard to look in a book and spot a prototypical track plan which can be played with to still make a realsitic layout, however in a club you will then have all the idiots saying its got to have an engine shed, a big goods yard and a major main line station all in your 10 foot by two. No one actually has the cojones to stand up and say "thats rubbish, we should do it like this". If they do they get sent away/ ostracised as being bolshie or worse still, aspiring to do some quality modelling or even worse get accused of going finescale!

Been there, seen it, endured it - didn't get a tee shirt.Brian R

[Julia]

Thank you everyone for your supportive responses.

 

The big thing that has come out of this is that it has made me look at the layout I am building, and the standard, and given me even more drive to produce a non formulaic layout to a high standard!

 

Thank you everyone

 

J

[Happy Hippo]

Julia,

 

You go for it!

 

The RMWeb community are now waiting with bated breath for the pictures. (As long as it is not a Paraguayan monorail system in T gauge. )

 

As for your brush with the trader: Please feel sorry for him as he is obviously suffering from a recto-cranial inversion!

 

Regards

 

Richard

[rob D2]

Yes press on...

I don't think that as has been alluded to, you could call some if these " traders" ambassadors for the hobby. TBH a few I have seen selling tatty Lima tat made in 1870, look like the lovechild of delboy and steptoe...

No , not ambassadors, barrow boys in some cases .

 

As for the shows , if I am paying an entrance fee , I expect some entertainment...and that doesn't mean one train every twenty minutes cos the operators are too busy gassing about club matters.

[Kenton]

Julia, you have my sympathy but I'm not convinced it is entirely a sexist thing. I attend about 20 expos of various sizes and standards every year and can quiet;y echo that the sort of greetings you had from some traders and the standard of layout is far from uncommon (I'm male).

 

 

I suppose any show on at the same weekend as warley is going to find it difficult. A lot of layouts wont be available due to either being at warley or the owners wanting to visit warley themselves (or not havin a full team due to the same reason).

Jim has hit it right on the head here. Warley is a disater to the rest of the modelling expo world as it sucks the blood out of all other shows for weeks either side of the event. It is far too big and for some unfathomable reason the traders feel the need to be seen there along with their new product releases. I stopped attending long ago. But it leaves only the also rans available for other expos that dare to occupy the same calendar space.

 

There is also the problem that many of these middle rank club shows are only showing layouts associated with their club with perhaps a preferred visitor. Rarely do they have the influence or pay sufficient in expenses to bring in the finest of the layouts or it seems to be able to theme the show. But having said that, it is the only chance some of these layouts get to be exhibited. The operators can often be inexperienced and with that shy or unskilled in being the showman. It could even be their first time in the public arena both individually and in operating their layout. Rudeness is inexcusable, but understandable. That inexperience could well be exaggerated by the questioning coming from a female. Let's face it this is a very male dominated hobby with very few female participants and probably fewer females with knowledge to boost their male inadequacies.

 

Of course the ability of a show to attract punters is based on both its layouts and the quality of trade. These medium ranking club shows and smaller now only attract the same poor quality trade the box shifter, charity stand, and if your lucky a second hand book stand with worn out stock dragged along to every show. But there are still some small shows that manage to excel - I don't know what the formula is but they do seem to have it - when you find them then they become the ones you want to return to. The rest and their mediocre traders are worth remembering to avoid.

 

This is, after all the grumpy old man's hobby.

[Guest Natalie Graham]

(As long as it is not a Paraguayan monorail system in T gauge. )

 

 

Too right. We don't want yet another one of those.

[leopardml2341]

 

Jim has hit it right on the head here. Warley is a disater to the rest of the modelling expo world as it sucks the blood out of all other shows for weeks either side of the event.

 

Supermarket Vs Corner Shop effect.

[Julia]

Julia,

 

You go for it!

 

The RMWeb community are now waiting with bated breath for the pictures. (As long as it is not a Paraguayan monorail system in T gauge. )

 

Does German H0e count?

 

J

[Happy Hippo]

Does German H0e count?

 

J

 

Nein........

 

Acht

 

Seiben

 

Sechs......................

 

 

Ich werde meinen mantel

 

Regards

 

Richard

[Xerces Fobe2]

In relation to this subject - Following my thread on RMweb "Model Railway Exhibitions – Time for a change? " I have been invited to a CMRA meeting tomorrow where we are lookong at the points raised by numerous RMweb members and actively seeing what can be done to improve model railway exhibitions, given the many challanges and presures we all currently face.

 

I more than happy to help here as it shows yet again the value that RMweb brings to the hobby - We cannot create a pefect world where every exhibition will please every visitor howvever we can try work together to look at how we could make improvements and plan what we might be able to achieve in the future.

 

XF

[45568]

Regarding the quality of exhibitions, you folk in the UK should think yourselves lucky . If you go and find it's a dud, at least you've a good chance of trying a different one the following weekend. Here we get one show a year and that's yer lot. Also, being (literally) several thousand miles from anywhere else with a substantial modelling population, the layouts on show are all local but, also because of the tyranny of distance and lack of exhibitions, there is only limited motivation for individuals and clubs to build new exhibition layouts.

 

The net result, through no fault of those who organise or exhibit, is that what is on show every June does not vary a great deal from year to year. That said, there are some real gems which turn up so it's still worth going .

 

So I get most of my layout drooling jollies online. Thank you RMWeb.

He's dead right!!!!!!! (Although it's been a long time since I found any gems there).

Peter C. (also in sunny Perth)!!!

[Jol Wilkinson]

When did show going become such a major part of the hobby? For some, attending shows seems to be the hobby itself.

 

The proliferation of exhibitions has created such a wide variety of shows that they don't all meet an idividuals taste/preferences. Warley at one extreme or the local club show at the other have little interest for me. I enjoy seeing good models irrespective of the scale, but as a 4mm model builder rather than a buyer of RTR/RTP (there is no option with the LNWR), shows with good "specialist" trade and well observed and built 4mm layouts are what I prefer, such as expoEM or Railex. So those are what I go to and I am rarely disappointed. However, I would rarely consider going to more than four to six shows a year, whereas I get the impression that some enthusiast attend a show most weekends during the "season".

 

As for impolite traders or layout operators, we should remember that many of them have ended up where they are because they are interested in modelling. Unfortunately that doesn't mean that they have to be a decent member of the human race. Perhaps the best thing to do is to politely tell them so, otherwise they'll never get the message. Fortunately I have only met one trader that was rude and abusive.

[Poggy1165]

I suppose it's just about worth saying - just because an exhibition doesn't inspire/entertain me, it doesn't mean it won't inspire/entertain someone else. I accept that. My only comment is that I find fewer shows worth attending than I used to do, but that is partly to do with the cost and hassle of travelling, rather than purely down to the exhibitions themselves.

 

As for traders, they seem to be a good cross section of the human race. Some are great, others give you the impression that providing a service to customers is an optional extra. Still, I think on balance there are more good eggs than bad, and even some of the - er - eccentrics - among them still provide useful products.

[GC Jack]

Living on the Isle of Wight I go to only a few selected exhibitions often where the people I meet will be of as much interest as the layouts. However I usually pop along to any local shows. Usuall there is one layout of interest but the rest and the traders are not really much cop. I think these days traders are much more selective good traders may avoid shows which a poor record which doesn't help the show organisers to lift the standard.

Don

 

Hi Don,

 

I help to organise the local show on the I.o.W. We have a real problems in getting decent layouts owing the extra transport costs, I hope you enjoyed Rowlands Castle though an amazing piece of work.

 

As to traders many won't come to the Island. Ronlines is the only one and I think he is excellent. The others are local of varying quality. We are looking at that and any feedback would be very welcome. The Children's layout is very popular and if you closely at it has some very good scenics and model buildings.

 

I have come across indifferent operators many times. One excuse I heard for not answwering people's questions was that the person concerned had built and transported the layout for public entertainment. He wasn't there to entertain them himself.

 

Jack