DavidH Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I'm also puzzled how he can write so well on Flikr but forget all that when replying to emails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted December 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2012 I've asked him a question as well but he hasn't replied. Has anyone complained to Ebay? Cheers, MIke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucazone Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 I reported the sale items of the 3 images that were sourced from my photographs. I also emailed the seller the following: ]Dear thrashmachine37,[/b]It appears you are selling several of my photographs as prints. I also notice that you are selling many image obtained from Flickr, as photographic prints. I kindly ask that you remove the following images of mine from sale: http://www.ebay.co.u...=item5aebfe20b1 http://www.ebay.co.u...=item5aebfe0e96 http://www.ebay.co.u...=item5aebfe220c I have reported all 3 items to eBay as illegal, and I will be advertising your sale items on various photographic websites to ascertain the legitimacy of their source. - lucazone5656 Dear lucazone5656,Hang on a second I tooke this at Tonbrigde off the footbridge so no it's not yours at all - thrashmachine37 I got a subsequent message from him confirming all the requested images had been taken down. I can confirm this has happened. I responded, thanking him for the removal, but that now I was aware of his eBay account, I would monitor it for further infraction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Have you looked in his feedback profile to see what he has already sold? Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Nine. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'm no lawyer but if someone is not only breaching copyright by selling other people's work but also falsely claiming to have taken those pictures himself then might he not be guilty of a criminal fraud. If he were doing that on a large scale, well don't people go to prison for that sort of thing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucazone Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 Hiya, It does appear that his eBay sales are all about selling images from Flickr. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 We have to tread carefully here and not make unsubstantiated allegations. However, I am now in correspondence with four other Flickr account holders to point out remarkable similarities between their photos and the ones on eBay. None of them had knowingly sold photos on eBay. One confirmed that he was alone on the bridge when he took his photo of 56115, but he may have been accompanied by an invisible man. I can just about cope with the notion of invisibility, but I don't understand the concept of an invisible photographer. How do you capture photons in a camera without altering the path of the light? Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted December 5, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2012 Are any of the prints available on eBay also available to buy as prints from Flickr? If I buy the print from Flickr I can sell it on eBay quite legally, the same as I could a book containing it... Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 If I buy the print from Flickr I can sell it on eBay quite legally, the same as I could a book containing it... ...but you couldn't claim to have taken the photograph yourself. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 *snip* One confirmed that he was alone on the bridge when he took his photo of 56115, but he may have been accompanied by an invisible man. I can just about cope with the notion of invisibility, but I don't understand the concept of an invisible photographer. How do you capture photons in a camera without altering the path of the light? Geoff Endacott Never mind that - what it really means is that clearly his camera is invisible, too. In which case a) I want one (!), and b.) I think it should be offered to the MoD, as I think HM's Armed forces could do with this sort of stealth technology... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Aside from their replies to some of us who questioned the seller's posible infringement of copyright, there is nothing on the listings stating that these prints are the seller's own work. IANAL etc., but as Dagworth says, a print could be regarded as a commodity if the seller had acquired it legitimately and selling wasn't in breach of the (implied) contract through which they had obtained it. In this instance, I'm guessing that the seller made the prints after downloading the images from Flickr. That would be in breach of copyright and anyone who has found one of their images sold on in this way is entitled to demand fair payment and or damages, taking the seller to the small-claims court as necessary. If however the seller has bought prints from Flickr, then it comes down to any contractual terms that might apply to such purchases. I don't know enough about how Flickr works, or what generic terms apply, but I would think a restriction "for personal use, except with permission of the copyright holder" ought at least to apply. However, I'm worried that we could be in a grey area over the true ownership of images on the Web. FWIW, I'd be concerned about any commercial use of my photographs without permission (although I have let some go in the past), though I'm perfectly happy to share and grant free use for personal, educational or other "public interest" use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucazone Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 If he was selling the odd one or two here and there amongst his other eBay sales, that would probably be true, but the fact that he is selling hundreds of images in the same manner, some from years ago and some as recent as last month, suggests that he is making a business out of it. This is unlikely to be a case of having purchased a few prints from Flickr and then deciding to sell them on. Even if he is buying prints from Flickr rather than just downloading them, to then make a business of selling on those purchases, is surely against the purpose of buying them from Flickr in the first place. Any anyhow, as others have also mentioned, when asked, the seller is not saying anything other than 'I took the image'. If he had purchased them, why go to the effort of claiming he took the photos himself... Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Are any of the prints available on eBay also available to buy as prints from Flickr? If I buy the print from Flickr I can sell it on eBay quite legally, the same as I could a book containing it... Andi Can you buy photos from Flickr? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 From Flickr terms & conditions: If you are seeking permission to use a photo/image found on Flickr, please note that you must contact the user who posted it directly and you must be a member of Flickr to do so. So you should not be able to buy any rights to an image on Flickr without contacting the person who uploaded it. It doesn't look as though lucazone, for one, has been contacted. Listing one of his photos on eBay is therefore a clear breach of the Flickr terms and conditions (as well as a breach of lots of other things as well). That blocks the potential, "I bought a print from Flickr and sold it on again," defence. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I have just received the following from Flickr user East Midlands: Geoff, Just to let you know I have had contact via Ebay with the T Leaf After a few messages to and fro he admitted it was not his shot, the last message claiming he bought it at the Model Rail Show at Barrow Hill with copyright. I am now in the process of reporting him to Ebay and if you need to forward this to anyone else please feel free. Thanks for the original info, my photos aren't that good and if anyone asks they can have them for free. Kind Regards Paul As I was asked by Paul to share this with anyone else, that is what I am doing. He is also too modest. Have a look at Flickr user East Midlands. Some of his photos are very nice indeed. They are even good enough to be sold on eBay. Ah, on second thoughts... Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I have just noticed that teddyready12 (a new user name) no longer has any photos for sale on eBay. That's a shame because I was watching quite a lot of them. He also has a private feedback profile. I wonder why that can be. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted December 5, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 5, 2012 I note the links to this seller now bring up "teddyready12" who appears to have no items to sell but has a feedback of 2939 (which is now set as private. Is this person some sort of chameleon? David Ah - I was just beaten by Geoff! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Making your feedback private can stop people using it to investigate your past transactions, unless of course someone puts the phrase "this is a 6/4 glossy print" into Google. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 For the record, here are some of his past sales that he'd rather we didn't see: http://www.ebay.co.uk/csc/teddyready12/m.html?nma=true&item=390496248253&pt=UK_Collectables_Railwayana_RL&si=Nyd1wn2f8nClqs%2B29v%2F94HmPAOs%3D&orig_cvip=true&hash=item5aeb63e1bd&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc Note that from September 28th he stopped offering free postage. Anyone recognise their work having been sold? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meil Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I am at a complete loss to understand why anyone would buy these when, if you want a copy of the photo, you can simply download it from Flickr? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
96tommy Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 From Flickr terms & conditions: If you are seeking permission to use a photo/image found on Flickr, please note that you must contact the user who posted it directly and you must be a member of Flickr to do so. So you should not be able to buy any rights to an image on Flickr without contacting the person who uploaded it. It doesn't look as though lucazone, for one, has been contacted. Listing one of his photos on eBay is therefore a clear breach of the Flickr terms and conditions (as well as a breach of lots of other things as well). That blocks the potential, "I bought a print from Flickr and sold it on again," defence. Geoff Endacott Hello, you emailed me a couple of days ago on Flickr (username 96tommy) and would like to say thank you for pointing out that my photos are being sold. Whatever he says (Ebay person) they are definitely not his photos (well not the 2 of mine he is selling anyway). I have cross examined the images and it is clear there no differences between mine and the ones he is selling, except he has slightly cropped one of the images. I have tried to point out to as many people as I can on flickr about their photo being for sale on Ebay. Havn't managed to have made contact with this person yet but I don't know what else can be done about it. Tommy Franklin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted December 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 6, 2012 He can't sell any more photos... "Important: If you have a private Feedback Profile, you will not be able to sell items on eBay." http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/feedback/profile-public-private.html Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 There seem to have been three objectives here. The first was to stop Mr Leaf (not his real name) selling other people's photos on eBay. That seems to have been accomplished, at least for the time being. The second aim was to inform the photographers whose work may have been sold without permission. We have managed to contact some, but not necessarily all of them. This is where members of this forum can still help. I have spent a couple of interesting evenings looking through Flickr but will have to call a halt at some stage. Anyone who would like to help can look at Mr Leaf's past sales and try to find the photos on Flickr. Links to similar pairs of photos can then be posted. Be careful - do not make unwarranted accusations. The fact that two photos seem similar is all you can say. It is then up to the photographer to draw whatever conclusion is necessary. In some cases photographers have concluded that it is their work which has been used without permission (being the only person present when the photo was taken is a good clue), but in one case a photographer could not be sure because there were many people near him when he took his picture. The third stage is a matter for the photographers themselves - redress. It seems to me that a reasonable fee for commercial use of a photograph (which is what we are taking about here) is £100. None of my photos have been used. If they had, I would be sending the commercial user an invoice for £100 per photo (+VAT) and would follow up any non-payment in the Small Claims Court. We can't make that decision for the photographers - but we can at least inform them of the situation so they can decide what to do for themselves. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Well there's a "This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available" on most of those links right now. Thanks to all those taking action and to those flagging up what's going on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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