Christian Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 A question about the Cartazzi pony truck on your model: does it have outside bearings? I ask this because on Martin Finneys website he makes mention of special wheelsets made by Slaters for his kits and Slaters list them as being for outside bearings, but from your pictures it is not clear to me if the bearings are outside the wheels or between. Does the kit allow for either method of supporting the pony truck wheelset, and tender wheels for that matter? The axles supplied with the Slaters wheel sets have extended axles which I guess you could use for outside bearings as per the prototype. The Finney kit makes no mention of using this method in the instructions and instead uses an internal bearing axle carrier. The front bogie wheels also had this extended exle but I cut the extensions off. One point to note is that the kits are designed to use a narrower axle for the bogie and trailing wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 Moving on, I spent today building up the cab. The kit includes two options for the earlier or later cab sides, obviously I chose the latter. I made up the cab sides first which included several laminates for the sliding window mechanism, a couple of these parts to be added later after painting and glazing. I also fitted out the hand rails prior to fitting the sides as I wanted to remove the excess hand rail pins from the inside of the cab sides. There is quite a sharp curve to the ends of the cab sides which needed to perfectly fit into the recess in the cab floor. The sides and front could then be soldered to the cab floor and made up the main cab unit. Like the footplate, the kits uses a jig to help with the building of the cab roof and options for the roof vents. All of the roof is built while on the jig and once complete the jig can be cut away. I must say that this is a very clever method and greatly helps consruction. The finished roof sits perfectly on the cab assembly. Here you can see the cab is now test fitted to the footplate to check the fit. As has been the case with the whole build to date the fit is perfect. With the addition of the cab the model is now starting to really look like an A3 as all of the major elements of the loco has been assembled. Obviously I have not really built up any of the detail parts yet and there is much of it to do but I like to build in this way, starting with the larger componants and ensuring a perfect fit before moving on the smaller areas of the build with the tinyest parts fitted last. You cannot always build this way as on some areas the smallest details have to be fitted before moving on. Next to work on will be the smoke box saddle as there is some detail to fit before it can be permanently soldered to the smoke box. There is also much work to do on the footplate and boiler as well as devising a method so that the boiler, firebox and cab assembly can be removed from the footplate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Christian Can I ask how do you model and keep it so clean as you build? Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Quite a few previous posts on this thread answering that question Pete.. JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peejay Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 The axles supplied with the Slaters wheel sets have extended axles which I guess you could use for outside bearings as per the prototype. The Finney kit makes no mention of using this method in the instructions and instead uses an internal bearing axle carrier. The front bogie wheels also had this extended exle but I cut the extensions off. One point to note is that the kits are designed to use a narrower axle for the bogie and trailing wheels. Thank you for your response Christian. The word 'narrower' in your last sentence has me puzzled. Slaters axles are shouldered, are they not, to provide the correct B2B dimension, so would you care to elucidate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcazar Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Thank you for your response Christian. The word 'narrower' in your last sentence has me puzzled. Slaters axles are shouldered, are they not, to provide the correct B2B dimension, so would you care to elucidate? I can help with that question: Martin Finney kits use a closer to scale axle diameter for the bogie and trailing wheels. These are available from Slaters, when I bought my wheelset, I simply told them the wheels were for a Finney kit. What I didn't know at the time was that the DRIVING wheels are also available with the cranks set to 120 degrees, correct for a 3 cylinder loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peejay Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I can help with that question: Martin Finney kits use a closer to scale axle diameter for the bogie and trailing wheels. These are available from Slaters, when I bought my wheelset, I simply told them the wheels were for a Finney kit. What I didn't know at the time was that the DRIVING wheels are also available with the cranks set to 120 degrees, correct for a 3 cylinder loco. Thank you alcazar for answering my question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nortonian Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Thank you alcazar for answering my question. Boys, boys !!!!!!!!!!, The missing information here is that the bogie and trailing axles are 5/32", and driving axles 3/16". Kindest Mr PC frustrated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peejay Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Boys, boys !!!!!!!!!!, The missing information here is that the bogie and trailing axles are 5/32", and driving axles 3/16". Kindest Mr PC frustrated. As confirmed by a visit to both Slaters and Martin Finneys websites after I had posted my response to alcazar. Also don't forget the tender wheels. Pity that Slaters only offer the 5/32" axles with the outside bearing extensions. OK if you want to go the whole hog with the Cartazzi pony truck and the tender, but pointless for the leading bogie on any Gresley loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcazar Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Does anyone know if the Finney A3 allows the building of the loco with different boilers? And how much they differed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Does anyone know if the Finney A3 allows the building of the loco with different boilers? And how much they differed? I think it's 94/94A only. I don't remember mine (4mm version) catering for 94HP or Diag.107 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Hello Mike, I am sure that you will get on well with it, I swear by it. hi Christian, I meant to say I recieved my bottle of flux a few days ago, I was surprised how generous the bottle was, I was expecting a little one cheers Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 I think it's 94/94A only. I don't remember mine (4mm version) catering for 94HP or Diag.107 Correction: you can build a 94A or 94HP from the kit, but not a 94 or 107. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share Posted February 26, 2010 Well after a few recent distractions i.e. my Playstation, and the recent troubles with RMWeb along with waiting for parts to arrive, I have now been able to do a little more progress. As previously mentioned, I have been waiting for some castings to arrive for the driving wheel springs and hangers and at last they have all arrived. The picture below shows the four options. Top left is the white metal casting from hobbyhorse, Bottom left if the brass castings from Ragstone, Top right is the brass castings from Sanspareil and Botom right is the etched laminated supplied with the kit. I think the best option is the castings from Ragstone models (Bottom Left) however there is still the issue that they are about 6mm too long to fit the frames. So what I am going to do is use the hangers and make my own springs. The picture below shows the spring unit that I have made using 3mm phospher bronze strip and the brass hangers, followed by a shot of the completed spring/hanger assembly fitted to the frame. The front spring arrangement is a little different as the front hangers also incorporate the brake shaft bracket. Again I have used a brass casting supplied by ragstone and modified it slightly to incorporate the spring. With all the spring/hanger assemblies now fitted, attention now turns to the brakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Very nice Christian... hopefully you didn't get too much playstation thumb. Much better soldering iron index fingers ! JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcazar Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 They do look very good, Christian, but it's a HECK of an expensive method, surely? To buy already pricey bits and start using them to chop up to build even better bits? You have the deatil bug bad, don't you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Pulham Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Well after a few recent distractions i.e. my Playstation, and the recent troubles with RMWeb along with waiting for parts to arrive, I have now been able to do a little more progress. As previously mentioned, I have been waiting for some castings to arrive for the driving wheel springs and hangers and at last they have all arrived. The picture below shows the four options. Top left is the white metal casting from hobbyhorse, Bottom left if the brass castings from Ragstone, Top right is the brass castings from Sanspareil and Botom right is the etched laminated supplied with the kit. I think the best option is the castings from Ragstone models (Bottom Left) however there is still the issue that they are about 6mm too long to fit the frames. So what I am going to do is use the hangers and make my own springs. The picture below shows the spring unit that I have made using 3mm phospher bronze strip and the brass hangers, followed by a shot of the completed spring/hanger assembly fitted to the frame. The front spring arrangement is a little different as the front hangers also incorporate the brake shaft bracket. Again I have used a brass casting supplied by ragstone and modified it slightly to incorporate the spring. With all the spring/hanger assemblies now fitted, attention now turns to the brakes. Those springs look superb Christian. MMP sell their phosphor bronze leaf springs separately from their kits, I wonder if they could be utilised to get the same effect. It would depend on the overall size, but food for thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share Posted February 26, 2010 MMP sell their phosphor bronze leaf springs separately from their kits, I wonder if they could be utilised to get the same effect. It would depend on the overall size, but food for thought. No doubt David will be along shortly to answer that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcazar Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Here's another question: Those four springs/hangers you've shown all purport to be the SAME part? How come there is so much discrepancy with the shape? Especially of the hangers. No-one would accept a CHIMNEY that was so different, so why these bits? And what does it say of OTHER castings? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scale7JB Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 How thick is the Phosphor Bronze strip that you used Christian ? I need to get some 0.6mm thick strip (although only 2mm wide) for some working leaf springs. JB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share Posted February 26, 2010 They do look very good, Christian, but it's a HECK of an expensive method, surely? To buy already pricey bits and start using them to chop up to build even better bits? You have the deatil bug bad, don't you? They were not that expensive and samples were sent to me for aproval or return. Yes the detail bug, well I could blame many people on here for that. I am bordering on being a rivet counter but then nothing would get done. If you try hard enough you can find fault with anything, that's not to say that there are any faunts with the Finney kit and when it comes to things like springs and hangers would anyone actually see them once the model is finished and painted, answer No. But I know that they are there. Anyway, who ever said that 7mm was anything but expensive? It costs me a furtune to fund my hobby and as much as I spend on kits, I would proberably spend the same on tools and materials. But it is all good fun. Here's another question: Those four springs/hangers you've shown all purport to be the SAME part? How come there is so much discrepancy with the shape? Especially of the hangers. No-one would accept a CHIMNEY that was so different, so why these bits? And what does it say of OTHER castings? Good question, somebody is obviously very wrong. I have no idea what the springs and hangers on a real A3 really look like and the option that I have chosen may well be wrong, again if I was counting rivets the frames would still be in pieces. How thick is the Phosphor Bronze strip that you used Christian ? I need to get some 0.6mm thick strip (although only 2mm wide) for some working leaf springs. For the springs I have used 3mm x 0.3mm strip to make up twelve leaves. 0.6mm sounds a bit thick for springs to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcazar Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 Christian: a further question or two, if I may? Having been over to "Building "O" Gauge online" to look in more detail at your latest mod, can you say how you decided how big the springs should be? Also, are they bolts that hold the springs to the hangers, soldered in place? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 Christian: a further question or two, if I may? Having been over to "Building "O" Gauge online" to look in more detail at your latest mod, can you say how you decided how big the springs should be? Also, are they bolts that hold the springs to the hangers, soldered in place? The width or length of the spring was determined by the rivet detail of the frames where they line up to the hanger, this resulted in the width or length of the springs. With regards to the height, I took an average height based upon the four samples. The bolts had their slotted heads filed flat before being soldered in place on the springs. The bolts then slide through the predrilled holes on the hangers and held with the nut before being soldered into its final position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrier mate Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 Christian, Only just found your blog. Great progress. You have achieved in 2 months what it has taken me over a year to complete. Very impressive quality. I need to start detailing Knight of Thistle this weekend (pot lubricators andpipework. Keep up the excellent work. Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Posted March 5, 2010 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 Only just found your blog. Great progress. You have achieved in 2 months what it has taken me over a year to complete. Very impressive quality. I need to start detailing Knight of Thistle this weekend (pot lubricators andpipework. Keep up the excellent work. Nigel Hello Nigel, Glad to see you back with us and I'm looking forward to the progress on Knight of Thistle. Your work has been an inspiration to me and I have very much enjoyed watching your build progress. Yes the initial progress of Spearmint has been done in no time at all really, but I have been fortunate to have some time and more importantly motivation. Progress for me shall start to slow down a little as I too have started a new job. I am currently working on the braking system for Spearmint and making new brake shoes and hangers, hopefully I can post some progress this weekend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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