Finney A3 - Spearmint

[Ian G]

I have a small lathe that i have not got round to using due to studying, over the last few years I have picked up all i need including a vertical slide and a small rotary table as a poor mans version of a dividing head, I have a few patterns to make for casting, so looking forward to the end of my course in a months time.

 

Ian G

[alcazar]

I. too, have a small lathe, an Emco Compact 5. It's gets little use, mainly because a) I don't know how, and B) I can't ever seem to afford the tools etc. I STILL don't have aprting-off tool:rolleyes:

 

I was lucky to buy it ex HMP and it came with it's own milling machine on a proper co-ordinate table with a full set of 25mm collets free.

 

Any advice as to how to LEARN to use it, gladly accepted.

[PhilH]

Books such as this can be very helpful. That sounds like a cracking set up, you're a lucky man, it's a good little lathe.

[Christian]

I'm intrigued - why did you opt for a milling machine before a lathe? A milling machine is on my list of things I'd like to acquire but a lathe was higher priority. Most of the milling jobs I can think of could be done on a lathe with a vertical slide (the next item on my shopping list!) but it's probably harder to use a milling machine as a lathe. So what do you use the milling machine for?

 

I was originally looking for a drill press. I had a requirement for a previous project where I needed to accurately drill a series of 0.5mm holes spaced 1mm apart in some 1mm x 1mm square brass stock. In my search for suitable tools I came accross a drill press made by Proxxon, they also did a seperate table for the press. By the time you add the prices together I was not far off buying their small bench top milling machine so that's what I ended up going for. As a drill press it is great, the table has a vise attached to it to hold your work and the x and y axies are in increments of 0.1mm which is more than accurate enough for my requirements.

As a mill it has also come in handy, on Spearmint I have used it to make rebates in the cast brass spring hangers so that they sat flush with the frames. It was also used to make the brake shoe hangers shown earlier in this thread, and also to cut the holes in the brass smoke box for the double cast chimney to name but a few.

I have never really had the use for a lathe, certainley nothing which have have not done with other methods, but recently I have thought of various uses for one.

I shall give it some more thought and do some research. I know little about metal working lathes and it would seem that besides a lathe there is much additional tooling required for a lathe.

[alcazar]

I know little about metal working lathes and it would seem that besides a lathe there is much additional tooling required for a lathe.

 

Neither do I, (took biology at school instead of metalwork), and yes, lots of bits to buy for a lathe.

[Pugsley]

Ah, but once you've got them, as long as you look after them, you'll never need to get them again! I just spread the purchase of the bits out over time as and when I could afford them - I've now got just about everything I need, but it's taken over a year.

[Mike Boucher]

I. too, have a small lathe, an Emco Compact 5. It's gets little use, mainly because a) I don't know how, and I can't ever seem to afford the tools etc. I STILL don't have aprting-off tool:rolleyes:

 

I was lucky to buy it ex HMP and it came with it's own milling machine on a proper co-ordinate table with a full set of 25mm collets free.

 

Any advice as to how to LEARN to use it, gladly accepted.

 

For help on learning how to use your lathe, You could do a lot worse than this book:

 

http://www.sherline.com/bookplug.htm

 

Its obviously written towards sherlines, but there's a ton of generic and useful information. I've got one, and found info that was useful for my 10" South Bend. My father was a professional machinist for 40+ years, and he occasionally refers to his copy. At one point, the Model Engineering club I'm in made a group purchase of 50, and they lasted 2 meetings before they were all gone.

 

As for tooling, there's not a lot you NEED to have. With a faceplate and a 4 jaw chuck you'll be able to do quite a bit, just not as easily as having a full set of collets, 3 jaw, steady rest, etc) So buy tooling as you need it, and you'll have a well tooled lathe eventually. (as an example, I don't have a quick change toolpost for my lathe, but I haven't NEEDED one yet. On the project list is a set of castings for a steady rest, which I will need soon...)

[Horsetan]

Any hope for beginner users on a Unimat 4?

[Adrian]

Any hope for beginner users on a Unimat 4?

 

Gerald Wingrove produced an excellent book - beginners guide to the Unimat with ten useful projects. It was intended for the Unimat 3 but just as applicable for the Unimat 4. There are a couple on ebay at the moment

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...t-/170499606333

 

Adrian

[Horsetan]

Thanks, Adrian

[ozzyo]

I. too, have a small lathe, an Emco Compact 5. It's gets little use, mainly because a) I don't know how, and I can't ever seem to afford the tools etc. I STILL don't have aprting-off tool:rolleyes:

 

I was lucky to buy it ex HMP and it came with it's own milling machine on a proper co-ordinate table with a full set of 25mm collets free.

 

Any advice as to how to LEARN to use it, gladly accepted.

 

 

You could try your local college and see if they have any night school classes on model engineering. Then you could learn about the mill and the lathe as well.

 

OzzyO.

[richard_t]

You could try your local college and see if they have any night school classes on model engineering. Then you could learn about the mill and the lathe as well.

 

OzzyO.

I hit a bit fat blank with this locally: the nearest two courses where 50 miles away, one was fully booked and the other didn't run due to the lack of numbers.  This link might help in finding the courses, but I note the course that didn't run (at Oaklands college), is still listed. The trouble is that a lot of schools/colleges engineering departments have closed, so the machinery just isn't there. Going a little OT: I attended a woodworking class several years ago locally, that isn't running anymore as the school has sold off it's equipment.

 

So... I'm buying a lathe next week (before the budget), and I'm going to work through several workshop practice books. I've got a couple of projects I'd like to do that I've drawn up to get me going.

[alcazar]

That was my problem: I enrolled, did one week and the course was cancelled due to lack of numbers.

[Ian G]

Oaklands still have an engineering work shop as I see the kids in there when im at college, but not sure about the evenings, I never stay there that late.

 

Ian G

[3 link]

I was lucky enough to buy a lathe a while back for the grand sum of £20, I actually asked the gent if he was sure and he said yes as he was fed up with it being in the way !!! OK it is not the latest masterpiece of engineering but it has already came in useful a few times ie:- turning down bushes,making bushes, and track gauges, etc. The lathe dates back to 1948 and made by a firm in Shrewsbury called Grindturn, it came with a 4 jaw chuck,face plate and a full set of collets (result !!). She has been well used and a bit tired and the beds a bit slack, but hey we are talking £20 here so I'm over the moon. If your in no hurry just keep a lookout at car boots or Ebay, there are some bargains to be had.

 

ATB, Martyn.

[Ian G]

There is a series starting in Model Engineering Workshop on how to use a lathe.

 

Ian G

[alcazar]

Thanks for that, will go to the local library, ( WHSmith), tomorrow and peruse.

[Christian]

So... I'm buying a lathe next week (before the budget), and I'm going to work through several workshop practice books. I've got a couple of projects I'd like to do that I've drawn up to get me going.

 

So what lathe are you going to buy and what tools are you getting to go with it?

[Ohmisterporter]

All this talk about lathes and milling machines is detracting from the O.P. Would we not be better with a separate section for Machine tools?

 

Geoff.

[3 link]

What a great idea Geoff, I am one of the guilty members that have hijacked poor Christians thread and although now a lathe owner there are many grey areas that I do not have the slightest knowledge about .

 

ATB, Martyn.

[Western Star]

Work has continued on Spearmints tender and the outer frames. The assembly has gone together very well as with the rest of the build with little problems to note appart from the buffers.

 

I have not fitted the buffer heads yet as they shall need some work. The problem is that the outer frames interfere with the holes for the buffer heads, a picture highlighting the problem follows below. I believe that someone else on this forum has experienced simular problems with a Finney tender for an A4 but I can't find the posts at the moment as they are burried deep within the depth of the forum pages. I would be curiuos to know how they got on.

 

The clearance between the wheels and the frames is very tight indeed and washers have been added to greatly limit the side play of the wheels so that they don't foul the frames. This surely would be challenging in scale 7.

 

Hi Christian,

 

I suspect that your reference to a Finney A4 tender and buffers is alluding to the build of Merlin by my son. After asking here, there and other places the decision has been taken although not yet implemented. The Finney buffers are going to be assempled with self-contained springing - this will require drilling through the buffer stock to hold a pin which passes through a slot to be cut in the buffer ram. Such an approach will allow the back of the complete buffer assembly to be flush and for the buffer base to be located in the correct position.

 

As Merlin is being built to S7 standards there is indeed a minimal amount of clearance between the face of the tender wheels and the inside face of the outer frames. So that the tender can be "sprung" the Finney inner frames have been used as tmeplates for new frame plates which can accomodate the hornguides of Slater's sprung axleboxes. At this time the Slater's product has an axlebox with 3/16" bore so the wheelsets are the "finescale" version with 3/16" dia. axle and socket head screw fixing. After re-profiling of the flanges the overall wheel thickness was adjusted to a "prototypical" value and that was sufficient to allow for the wheels to fit inside of the outer frames. I suspect that the standard wheel on S7 axles will not between the outer frames without reducing the thickness of the boss / tyre.

 

The jury is still out on whether the use of screw fixings for the wheels provides any benefit towards removable wheels / axles for the brake pull rods may well prevent removal of wheels from axles.

 

regards, Graham

[alcazar]

Hi Western Star, has your son stopped his build? I haven't seen any updates for ages.

[Western Star]

Hi Western Star, has your son stopped his build? I haven't seen any updates for ages.

 

Aplogies to Christian for replying here.

 

My son has not stopped the build of Merlin, just other things get in the way occasionally, like:-

 

* he is building a JLTRT Star, a Scorpio Pannier and a Connoisseur Tram at the same time;

* Gresley coaches beckon at regular intervals;

* our S7 layout is making progress and might be needed for the club open day this year;

* F1 is in full swing;

* TT is (just) over for another year;

* World Cup has priority.

 

However, there are some photos of the work on the inner frames of the tender - to spring same - and I shall ask him to post those to the A4 thread.

 

regards, Graham

[Adrian]

I suspect that your reference to a Finney A4 tender and buffers is alluding to the build of Merlin by my son. After asking here, there and other places the decision has been taken although not yet implemented. The Finney buffers are going to be assempled with self-contained springing - this will require drilling through the buffer stock to hold a pin which passes through a slot to be cut in the buffer ram. Such an approach will allow the back of the complete buffer assembly to be flush and for the buffer base to be located in the correct position.

 

I was looking through an old (1952) copy of the Model Railway Constructor and there was a construction article for a 7mm live steam loco with another idea for a self contained sprung buffer so the rear of the buffer is flush. In this case the buffer head is rivetted to the shank after assembly in the body of the buffer although I dare say it could be modified with a threaded bolt behind the buffer head. Anyway just another idea to throw into the ring.

 

 

Regards

 

Adrian

[Christian]

All this talk about lathes and milling machines is detracting from the O.P. Would we not be better with a separate section for Machine tools?

 

 

I have not minded this slight detour to the original thread as for me it still relates to the building of Spearmints tender and me contemplating buying a lathe.

 

I suspect that your reference to a Finney A4 tender and buffers is alluding to the build of Merlin by my son. After asking here, there and other places the decision has been taken although not yet implemented. The Finney buffers are going to be assempled with self-contained springing - this will require drilling through the buffer stock to hold a pin which passes through a slot to be cut in the buffer ram. Such an approach will allow the back of the complete buffer assembly to be flush and for the buffer base to be located in the correct position.

 

 

Hello Graham, yes it was your son's build of Merlin I was refering to. I could not find the thread at the time but recalled seeing that you experienced the same problems.

Self contained buffers certainly seam the way forward.

 

I was looking through an old (1952) copy of the Model Railway Constructor and there was a construction article for a 7mm live steam loco with another idea for a self contained sprung buffer so the rear of the buffer is flush. In this case the buffer head is rivetted to the shank after assembly in the body of the buffer although I dare say it could be modified with a threaded bolt behind the buffer head. Anyway just another idea to throw into the ring.

 

Great find Adrian, yes yet another option for the self contained buffers gives me plenty to think about.