Whats on your 2mm Work bench

[martin580120]

13 hours ago, Ian Smith said:

Martin,

regarding supergluing the white metal axleboxes and their failing to stick - have you thoroughly washed off all traces of flux beforehand (and allowed the bogies to dry out too)? In my experience superglue and flux don’t mix!

Looking at the bogie photo, are you applying enough solder (and flux), and applying enough heat, as it looks like the solder is powdery certainly on the stack of washers. I assume that you are using solder paste? I have experienced a similar powdery solder paste situation myself in the past.  These days I generally use solder in wire format with plenty of phosphoric acid flux, and tin both surfaces prior to bringing them together with more heat and flux.

Ian

 

Hi Ian,

 

Thanks for getting back to me - I clean in a cheap jewellery cleaner filled with water, but I'm not hugely impressed with it, I may need to go for the cif/toothbrush method, or spend some money on a real ultrasonic cleaner.

 

I am using Carr's solder paint and Orange flux.  After reading your reply yesterday, I slathered on some flux and reapplied the soldering iron and it seemed to clean up a fair bit, so it could just be I've not used enough flux/heat.  I rewashed everything in hot soapy water with an old toothbrush and then cleaned with warm water in the jewellery cleaner.  I'll retry supergluing axle boxes tonight and see if it makes a difference!

[Jayk]

 

   Even glacial progress does eventually get places. Basic body is done with the first rough filling in of the cab roof areas and all the motorising bits I needed turned up immediately prior to the site going down for maintenance. So basically need to shove all those baggies in to the body in an organised manner. Turns out I made an error with the universal joints confusing myself with the images and instructions leading me to believe that the "each" quantity was for a sprue which contained a pair of joints. However, thinking and testing showed me that I was likely to need a bit of swing and that the clip fit joints probably wouldn't allow this to happen. I happen to randomly have some 1.5mm inside diameter brass tube knocking around so I'm intending to place an over-sized hole or slot in that and make a loop through it with the driveshaft and just have the UV at the motor to aid disassembly.

 

 

 

   This is the general arrangement I settled on (sorry for the image quality) for the gearing within the bogie. The skew cut gear will sit over the central spur gear which is slightly offset to the outer end. The long vertical line was where I'd worked out was the ideal location with the right-most short vertical lone (below the middle gear) being the bogie centre. If I had instead raised the second gear from the left up and used that for the skew cut gear then the bogie would interfere with the bulkhead at the rear of the cab. The other option would have been to add an extra spur gear further up as the location for the skew cut but doing so would have also required me to raise the motor higher up than I wanted to accept. So this was the best compromise I could find.

 

 

 

   After the head-scratching, the hmm-ing and the aaa-ing as well as much do a bit, test everything, do the next bit and so on I have this! The bearings all fit and everything turns. Well, mostly. I haven't been through and cleaned all the teeth on the gears yet resulting in there being a spot that I can't revolve past in either direction right now. But it's there, the complicated part of the bogie. I've decided that rather than using the incredibly thick 6.4mm spacer I'm just going to make some 8mm pieces from the same 0.8mm board I've used so far and instead of soldering it between the two frames I'll butt it against the ends. So the next part will be soldering and filing down the bearings then shape the bogie ends and attach the spacing plates before attacking the worm.

 

   But it's all progress!

 

Regards,

   -Jayk

[2mmMark]

On 21/03/2022 at 11:25, martin580120 said:

 

Hi Ian,

 

Thanks for getting back to me - I clean in a cheap jewellery cleaner filled with water, but I'm not hugely impressed with it, I may need to go for the cif/toothbrush method, or spend some money on a real ultrasonic cleaner.

 

I am using Carr's solder paint and Orange flux.  After reading your reply yesterday, I slathered on some flux and reapplied the soldering iron and it seemed to clean up a fair bit, so it could just be I've not used enough flux/heat.  I rewashed everything in hot soapy water with an old toothbrush and then cleaned with warm water in the jewellery cleaner.  I'll retry supergluing axle boxes tonight and see if it makes a difference!

Some "ultrasonic" cleaners are not what they seem!
http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/2022/03/testing-ultrasonic-cleaner.html

A proper ultrasonic cleaner does a really good job.

 

[Caley Jim]

55 minutes ago, 2mmMark said:

A proper ultrasonic cleaner does a really good job.

The transducers in a proper ultrasonic cleaner produce 'cavitations' in the fluid.  It's these imploding that creates the cleaning action. 

 

Jim

[martin580120]

Thanks all - without the forum to distract me, I was forced to go back to my roots as an experimental chemist and do some experiments of my own. I suspect that the jewelry cleaner I have is not up to the task - I tried varying the time the etch was in, adding cif, soap and eventually ball bearings to see if this helped. (It didn't).

 

In the end, I went for the classic cif, hot water and a toothbrush method and this has seemed to help. I've also bought a can of super glue activator which definitely helps.

 

That's let me pick up some momentum and I'm up to four coaches, a brake third, third, composite and brake composite, all from Worsley Works etches with Association wheels, bogies and buffers. I've got some 3mm brass rod on order to try and fashion some gas tanks, and some dummy screw-link couplers to finish them off.

 

They're not perfect, far from it in fact, but I'm pretty happy with the way they've turned out (so far). I'm definitely seeing improvements as I build more, which is handy as a package with another four coaches dropped through the letter box on Friday - this also included etches for my first loco (well, two locos, the CR 439 Class and a Jumbo) so I guess I have that to think about now...

 

 

[Nick Mitchell]

Recently I made up a couple of the Association buffer stop kits.

First up is an L&Y rail-built example.

The kit design in ingenious, the six layers folding up origami-like in stages.

 

 

Here's the completed item installed on a length of track. I soldered pads of thin double-sided PCB behind the beam to keep the two sides electrically isolated as an alternative to having the buffers on a separate dead section of track.

 

 

The kits for the pre-grouping designs are all WSL now, which is a shame, as I imagined many examples would be quite long-lived.

 

Next up is a more modern LMS example, the finished components of which can be seen below, ready for installation:

 

 

This will be sitting on a siding parallel to another example of the breed which I built some time ago:

 

 

I've also been digging some inspection pits. I've posed a tired-looking cleaner in the pit in the picture below... I'm wondering if they are slightly too deep? Or maybe the one I'm used to climbing in and out of at Embsay is unusually shallow?

In any case, the cleaner needs to set to stop lazing about in the pit and set to work on 10735 - she's looking decidedly dusty!

 

[A. Bastow]

18 hours ago, Nick Mitchell said:

Recently I made up a couple of the Association buffer stop kits.

First up is an L&Y rail-built example.

The kit design in ingenious, the six layers folding up origami-like in stages.

 

 

.............................

 

 

 

Nick, how did you extract it from the surrounding etch once complete? I bent mine to hell when I did one. 

I also didn't realise that they were WSL - might have to put an order in before they disappear! 

[Caley Jim]

3 hours ago, A. Bastow said:

Nick, how did you extract it from the surrounding etch once complete? I bent mine to hell when I did one. 

I used a heavy craft knife (X-acto) to chop through the tags, removing the surround of each layer as I went.

 

Jim

[Nick Mitchell]

3 hours ago, A. Bastow said:

Nick, how did you extract it from the surrounding etch once complete? I bent mine to hell when I did one. 

 

I just sliced through them with a curved scalpel blade. Because there is a full stack of the frame, the tags are well supported. With a sharp blade, there's no reason things should bend.

[A. Bastow]

21 hours ago, Nick Mitchell said:

 

I just sliced through them with a curved scalpel blade. Because there is a full stack of the frame, the tags are well supported. With a sharp blade, there's no reason things should bend.

 

I must have been a bit over-enthusiastic then when extracting mine. That or my blade has gone blunt. 

[2mm Andy]

1 hour ago, A. Bastow said:

 

I must have been a bit over-enthusiastic then when extracting mine. That or my blade has gone blunt. 

It should be possible to use a piercing saw and a fine blade to cut the tags although it will be somewhat slower than using a scalpel (but less likely to end in disaster).

 

Andy

[Caley Jim]

2 hours ago, 2mm Andy said:

It should be possible to use a piercing saw and a fine blade to cut the tags although it will be somewhat slower than using a scalpel (but less likely to end in disaster).

I would respectfully suggest that a scalpel blade is a little too light for that sort of job and is more likely to result in the blade breaking, which cold be rather dangerous for the user.

 

Jim

[2mm Andy]

43 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

I would respectfully suggest that a scalpel blade is a little too light for that sort of job and is more likely to result in the blade breaking, which cold be rather dangerous for the user.

 

Jim

Indeed Jim, and I have previously broken some blades in precisely that way, so  I now generally use a Swann Morton craft knife (the type with the orange plastic handle) with a curved blade to cut etch tags. It was Nick's post above which mentioned the use of a scalpel.

 

Andy

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, Caley Jim said:

I would respectfully suggest that a scalpel blade is a little too light for that sort of job and is more likely to result in the blade breaking, which cold be rather dangerous for the user.

 

 

Try a 3mm or 1/8" wood chisel:  https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-rider-bevel-edge-chisel-hornbeam-handle-3mm-103732

Use a flat bit of scrap hardwood or scrap hardboard to support the fret.

 

Martin.

[Michael Edge]

A piercing saw should cut this quickly and easily without any distortion - I wouldn't think of doing it any other way.

[Nigelcliffe]

12 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Try a 3mm or 1/8" wood chisel:  https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-rider-bevel-edge-chisel-hornbeam-handle-3mm-103732

 

Use a flat bit of scrap hardwood or scrap hardboard to support the fret.

 

 

I use an old chisel as well  - with a moderately careful sharpening of the blade.  My support is a bit of perspex offcut.  

Alternative would be an old flat file with the end ground to a blade, held in a small file handle.  

 

Sometimes I use a Stanley Knife for cutting tabs.   

 

 

- Nigel

[2mmMark]

On 04/04/2022 at 14:17, A. Bastow said:

 

Nick, how did you extract it from the surrounding etch once complete? I bent mine to hell when I did one. 

I also didn't realise that they were WSL - might have to put an order in before they disappear! 

Looks like I'll need to do the same.  Seems odd to be discontinuing a item that's quite tricky to scratchbuild and yet easy to get produced.

Perhaps it can be passed across to a retailer, as happened with DG couplings.

 

[Caley Jim]

1 hour ago, 2mmMark said:

Perhaps it can be passed across to a retailer, as happened with DG couplings.

Or better still, another case for the Association to obtain the rights to the artwork? 

 

Jim 

[justin1985]

It is starting to feel a lot like anything that Chris Higgs was involved in producing is just disappearing? 

 

I understand there has been some complications with Chris being located in the Netherlands, but surely there must be a better solution than just discontinuing all those products. All that work producing the artwork shouldn't be wasted ...

 

I always thought one of the main advantages of an Association shop is avoiding the "get it now or miss out" approach that increasingly characterises commercial model producers. The range of products, minus Chris' designs, does really start to look like it's gone back several decades (generic or nothing). It might even start to make the scale and the Association less compelling to those just beginning ...

[Chris Higgs]

12 minutes ago, justin1985 said:

It is starting to feel a lot like anything that Chris Higgs was involved in producing is just disappearing? 

 

I understand there has been some complications with Chris being located in the Netherlands, but surely there must be a better solution than just discontinuing all those products. All that work producing the artwork shouldn't be wasted ...

 

I always thought one of the main advantages of an Association shop is avoiding the "get it now or miss out" approach that increasingly characterises commercial model producers. The range of products, minus Chris' designs, does really start to look like it's gone back several decades (generic or nothing). It might even start to make the scale and the Association less compelling to those just beginning ...

 

Hmm, well I have remained silent until now. 

 

The Association has been ordering the mainstream items produced by me for them directly now, and you see these available (there are still an awful lot). Location in the Netherlands (don't mention Brexit to me) not an issue in this case. The items disappearing are largely (such as certain wagon underframes) those which were not originally Association items, but done by me as one-off edition sales. As such they were done on sheets of artwork that combined several types, which gave the maximum profit (I hope I shock no-one by mentioning that word). A previous chief shopkeeper (initials SS) asked as a favour if the shops could stock them temporarily, which I helped him with. The definition of temporary did become rather elongated shall we say. But temporary it remained.

 

The pre-group bufferstops now marked WSL were done in this way (multiple types on a sheet) as sales were expected (and turned out to be in many cases) rather low. And there were even rumblings in certain quarters as to why we were filling Shop 1 with such obscure items. Given they do not generate the kind of revenue that other items do - they use a larger amount of metal than a typical loco chassis but only sell for a couple of quid - the sales numbers required to produce a dedicated sheet for each type would run into multiple decades before the investment were returned, if ever.

 

But the most common reason for items disappearing is that Association members simply don't purchase them in anything other than insignificant amounts. The BR CCT, GWR Toads and GWR Mink vans as an example, the shop has the capability to produce and sell them, but does not do so. Their time has simply run its course. And the committee has indicated that shop items do have to pay their way. It seems it is only when the magical WSL appears next to items members discover just how vital they are to their (modelling) life. I am witness to this given I have still boxes of etches at home that no-one ever asks for any more, and yet if I were to announce their discontinuation doubtless there would be expressions of regret.

 

Chris

[PaulCheffus]

1 hour ago, Chris Higgs said:

I am witness to this given I have still boxes of etches at home that no-one ever asks for any more, and yet if I were to announce their discontinuation doubtless there would be expressions of regret.

Hi Chris

In my case a photo has come to light that shows a full rake of BR fitted Plate wagons which I wasn’t aware of when that particular etch was available in the shop. I have one but could do with another fifteen. In hindsight I should have bought more when they were available but didn’t think I needed more than one at the time.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[2mm Andy]

2 hours ago, justin1985 said:

The range of products, minus Chris' designs, does really start to look like it's gone back several decades

 

....apart from four types of Easitrac plain track, the new Finetrax point kits (and the Easitrac point kits before them), a wider range of rolling stock wheels than ever before, a new range of loco wheels, a range of 3d printed loco and wagon details, a wide range of cast brass wagon buffers, a range of conversion chassis and components and etches for N gauge locos, drop-in wheels for Farish diesels, a range of etched coach bogies, assembly jigs for turnouts and point rodding components (i'll stop there as this is starting to sound like a scene from a Monty Python film....😆)

 

Yes, the loss of some of the etched wagon chassis and items like the buffer stop etches is frustrating (I say that as committed wagon modeller and buffer stop aficionado), but I think you are doing a grave injustice to the products development teams and other volunteers within the Association by making sweeping statements such as that above.

 

Andy (ex-committee member, part-time wheel assembler and occasional product development volunteer)

[Yorkshire Square]

2 hours ago, justin1985 said:

It is starting to feel a lot like anything that Chris Higgs was involved in producing is just disappearing? 

 

I understand there has been some complications with Chris being located in the Netherlands, but surely there must be a better solution than just discontinuing all those products. All that work producing the artwork shouldn't be wasted ...

 

I always thought one of the main advantages of an Association shop is avoiding the "get it now or miss out" approach that increasingly characterises commercial model producers. The range of products, minus Chris' designs, does really start to look like it's gone back several decades (generic or nothing). It might even start to make the scale and the Association less compelling to those just beginning ...

 

I look forward to your nomination as Sales Officer at the next AGM...

[Yorkshire Square]

8 hours ago, 2mmMark said:

Looks like I'll need to do the same.  Seems odd to be discontinuing a item that's quite tricky to scratchbuild and yet easy to get produced.

Perhaps it can be passed across to a retailer, as happened with DG couplings.

 

 

I wouldn't get too excited. Based on the last twelve months sales there are two year's worth of MR buffer stops, nine year's worth of Cambrian and an infinite number of year's worth of both LBSCR and SECR. I'll let you do the maths on the last two...

[Kylestrome]

3 hours ago, 2mm Andy said:

i'll stop there as this is starting to sound like a scene from a Monty Python film...

 

That reminds me – it's the right time of year to watch "Life of Brian" again ("what did the 2mm Scale Association ever do for us?") 😀

Edited April 12, 2022 by Kylestrome