Porcy Mane Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I would think Hornby has got the blanked windows correct for a proportion of the CCTs. Quickest way to prove that would be to check out these links. http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10443238&itemw=4&itemf=0003&itemstep=71&itemx=119 http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10443239&itemw=4&itemf=0003&itemstep=71&itemx=120 Maybe it was just done for CCT's used in car carrying traffic? Porcy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Porcy Well spotted, It is very difficult to tell in my own photos http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercctc I wonder if the CCT © designation has anything to do with this. Did Hornby take the information from the conserved one at Monkwearmouth museum? Is anyone able to have a look at that one to see if these central windows are blanked? Although presumably they shouldn't be on a pre-Nat version it is unlikely to have been altered. http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=939 Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) Porcy Well spotted, It is very difficult to tell in my own photos http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercctc I wonder if the CCT © designation has anything to do with this. Did Hornby take the information from the conserved one at Monkwearmouth museum? Is anyone able to have a look at that one to see if these central windows are blanked? Although presumably they shouldn't be on a pre-Nat version it is unlikely to have been altered. http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=939 Paul Your mention of Monkwearmouths CCT has jogged the brain cells and sent me of in a scurry to rummage through my print collection. I think the CCT at Sunderland is near original and has fine mesh on the inside. I like your use of the word conserve as opposed to preserve but suspect Sunderland Museums (or whoever the guardian of the CCT is nowadays) don't know the difference. Found this pic on Flickr; 120626_Newcastle_9482f by routebus537, on Flickr In my print collection I have two 10" x 8" hand prints at different exposures reduced from the same York plate of Vehicle 1296. They are dated 16 & 24 August 1942. I think the different exposures are to show different detail due a white roof. It must have taken them 3 years to get round to doing the prints as the lift and paint dates are clearly visible as June 1939. I've attached a scan of the windows and although not conclusive in the scan, inspection of the original print using a 10x high quality loupe, the centre pairs of windows are definitely fine mesh. You can even see where the fixing nails/screws have distorted the mesh. The reason I started to look for the Science & Society pics was that on seeing the model it reminded me of a conversation I had with a retired railwayman many years ago as to why the centre windows were as they were. (It was at Monkwearmouth) He said he didn't know but reasoned that glass could have easily broke due to the sliding doors hitting their stops. That didn't explain why the outer right hand windows remained glazed. I also suspect ventilation had nothing to do with using mesh as the smaller pair of windows on the left hand side opened. Hinged centrally along the short side, if I remember correctly. Must look and see if there is a drawing next time I'm in search engine. P EDIT. Months after my original post. Rather than mesh I've just come across a document were the LNER describes the "mesh" as "Perforated Zink" Edited November 25, 2014 by Porcy Mane 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted September 10, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2014 There's a photo in LNER Passenger Trains and Formations, Banks & Carter, which shows CCT E1264. One of the end windows is slightly open, pivoted along its vertical centre (as per your post Porcy Mane). To me it appears to have glass windows throughout however there is a slight difference in the window edges which might just be the inside frame being visible through the glass on the outer windows and not visible through the mesh on the inner windows. Though this could also simply be light and shadow differences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwell Hall Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Does your York print of CCT No 1296 show the whole vehicle? If so could we see it please - I should like to do mine in as built in 1939. Hornby have produced a fine model but the lettering on the NE liveried vehicle looks a little over size - your photo may be the only record of these vehicles in original condition. It rather looks as though the 'toplights' have been plated over - or at least covered in mesh - and rather begs the question as to why motor cars would need additional ventilation? Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 There's a very clear works photograph at the foot of p526 of David Jenkinson's British Railway Carriages 1923-1953 (combined volume), Pendragon 1996 of NE LLCK 1296. The middle pairs of lights below the cantrail are very definitely glazed and fixed, meaning that as far as the LNER build was concerned they were all glazed. The pair to the left hand end are both opening lights (note the thicker framing) which Hornby has correctly reproduced. Next question is did BR make any modifications to its build or to the earlier LNER ones during the BR period? Certainly the moulding is incorrect for the LNER model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulwell Hall Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 This is exactly what I wanted to know. I do not have the Jenkinson book - most of my reference books have a distinct 'Western' bias - so a scan of the York photo would be most helpful. I presume by York photo it is a LNER official York Carriage Works photo and not something from the NRM? Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 David Jenkinson was employed at the NRM whilst he compiled these books and other material, which is why they happen to contain such a rich collection of drawings, photographs, and references to contemporary magazines... Officially unattributed (i.e. no named/known photographer) photographs up to 1943 are definitely out of copyright and since crown copyright was later invoked for the railway company and BR photographs, so will those be up to 1963. As an aside I note that the photographs of the 'Thompson' main line stock in the latest Bachmann catalogue are stated as copyright to an individual. They cannot be since they are clearly officials or works photographs, whoever the individual is just happens to have copies of them, and if they came from the NRM/Science and Society collection then they are not normally permitted to be used for commercial purposes. However having re-read Porcy Mane's post if he says that it's fine mesh under magnification then that is probably the case - no copyright reason why a detail scan of the relevant area from the original print should not be posted here - it is after all for research. The Jenkinson illustration will just become a large area of Moiré. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hamlin Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 Mine arrived within 5 days of ordering al the way over here in New Zealand! I decided to try and enhance the screen effect that Hornby have tried on the middle vents. I used some MIG productions dark wash followed by a little rubble dust powder from the same stable. I also use dark wash to highlight all the nooks and crannies on the bodyside My photo shows the bottom one with washes and a little detailing on the underframe before general weathering (not that you can see on the photo but I have added some brake rigging between the brake shoes and a safety wire). The upper is as new. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Is anyone aware of 4mm scale white lettered transfers for these vans with all the number / lengths details please ? I think the Canbridge ones are yellow?) Why would you need white transfers? The BR carmine and maroon liveries carried straw yellow lettering; the Rail Blue livery carried white lettering, but the letteringwas in a completely different letterform with both upper and lowercase characters. Regards, John Isherwood, Cambridge Custom Transfers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Hi John Sorry my statement wasn't very clear - I'm planning to repaint two into blue and need the white lettering. Regards, SM46 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted September 19, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2014 Mine arrived within 5 days of ordering al the way over here in New Zealand! I decided to try and enhance the screen effect that Hornby have tried on the middle vents. I used some MIG productions dark wash followed by a little rubble dust powder from the same stable. I also use dark wash to highlight all the nooks and crannies on the bodyside My photo shows the bottom one with washes and a little detailing on the underframe before general weathering (not that you can see on the photo but I have added some brake rigging between the brake shoes and a safety wire). The upper is as new. Very nice. Glad to see I'm not the only one who takes the trouble to remove the bulky NEM mounts and fit 'proper' Kadees. I've not got round to the weathering yet but I only have to do a couple more vehicles to make a session worthwhile. Incidentally, does anyone know of a chemical blackener that works on Hornby wheels? I've tried Birchwood Casey (steel and brass versions) and Carrs (for nickel silver) with absolutely no effect. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted September 19, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2014 I'm planning to repaint two into blue and need the white lettering. I think I'll wait for a blue one to appear RTR. Hornby is not helping - with the current flood of new items any reason to delay a particular purchase is welcome. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emperordalek Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 1974 RCTS Coaching Stock Book shows 177 LMS CCTs, in the number range 35582 to 37327. Apart from the LM, some were allocated to the Eastern and Western Regions. In 1976 there were still 173. Sorry, don't have any later RCTS books. Whilst my contribution is a little late, my RCTS 1983/4 stock book just gives just three LMS design vehicles surviving - 31030/31241/31289 all BGs - most of the 4 wheeled stock went 1981/2 with ending of the parcels collections service in May(the 8th?) 1981. I always though the LMS CCT was a most attractive vehicle. I didn't start taking coaching stock numbers until 1973 (and got some weird looks at the time!), sadly didn't have a decent camera. I remember M37311 well in clean rail blue livery at Barnsley Exchange Station - it had been shunted too far and the buffers were the other side of the buffer stop - never saw how it was retrieved but must it have been amusing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
emperordalek Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Worried about the Scousers nicking stuff? Bernard Aye aye... ther's nuttin down 'ere for you lah!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyKarl Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Anyone know why the sudden drop (or difference) in price between last years's Hornby extra long LNER/BR CCT van (RRP £19.99) and this year's price for the new releases (RRP £13.49 according to the Rails of Sheffield web site)? I note that Hornby's own web site is still selling at last year's RRP. J.K. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR Dave Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Possibly a mistake on Rails website. I've ordered a couple at £12.50. I'll let you know if it goes through, but I'm expecting a call to say they want more money ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyKarl Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Possibly a mistake on Rails website. I've ordered a couple at £12.50. I'll let you know if it goes through, but I'm expecting a call to say they want more money ! That's what I thought when I first saw £12.50 on the Hattons web site a few days ago. But having seen it now on two major web sites, I now wonder. Also, checking back to Andy's Hornby 2015 announcement in December, I see he quoted 13.49 as RRP for this year. See: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93576-Hornby-2015-announcements-now-made/ The previous LMS/BR CCT van was only £13.49 (in 2013?) and then the price shot up hugely for the extra long version (in 2014). It now seems to have gone down again. If the price has dropped so much, I feel slightly miffed at having paid over the odds even with a small discount. JK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Maybe they had overpriced them. Hornby had overpriced the LMS CCT's in 2013, I remember my original order with Hattons was £16.00 which then dropped to £12.00 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted February 11, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2015 Just been having a look at Hatton's website. Their prices for the extra-long ones seem to be all over the place too - varying between £12.49 and £20.30 depending on version. Having got both types, I think it only reasonable that the ex-LNER ones are more expensive than the ex-LMS type. They have a lot of extra detail (double steps under all six doors plus brake rodding and metal buffer heads, all separately applied and none of which feature on the LMS ones. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR Dave Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Rails have now updated the price to £18.50 and blamed Hornby for the price error Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Just had notification from Hattons... QuoteThis is an automatic notification to inform you that we have processed your order for the following items:1 * Hornby R6682B LNER Extra Long CCT Van '1247' @ £12.49 each = £12.491 * Hornby R6682C LNER Extra Long CCT Van '1238' @ £12.49 each = £12.49 though looking on their website R6682B is now priced at £17. R6682C, R6683B and R6683C are still priced at £12.49. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyKarl Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Ditto But surely this must be a pricing error? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyKarl Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 And not surprisingly they all sold out today at £12.49! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I picked up a midland region one in crimson at the Shipley show for £10. Havent decided if it will keep its crimson or be changed or weathered, it will run in a freight similar to this. Aintree by Kerry Parker, on Flickr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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