Hornby Star Class

[Gilwell Park]

Hi.  I think it is important that any discrepancies are highlighted on any model.  I am well aware of Star steam pipe variants but would probably never have noticed the wrong spokes in the bogie wheels. If this forum flags up these problems I can then make up my own mind to buy or not, to modify or not. I do wonder however what percentage of modellers are REALLY bothered about some of the details discussed on this forum, the 10% is probably not far out. What percentage of the total modelling fraternity are members of this forum? 

 

I am not surprised that SK can sound waspish at the end of a long day at an exhibition, some modellers go on at great length about minute details and completely ignore the fact that their rails are too close together.  Fair comment by all means but don't get carried away, it's only a hobby, not life and death.

 

Roger.

[Gruffalo]

...  Fair comment by all means but don't get carried away, it's only a hobby, not life and death.

 

Roger.

To paraphrase the late Bill Shankley, it's not life and death, its more important than that!

 

That should get me  banned!

[Ian Hargrave]

Hi.  I think it is important that any discrepancies are highlighted on any model.  I am well aware of Star steam pipe variants but would probably never have noticed the wrong spokes in the bogie wheels. If this forum flags up these problems I can then make up my own mind to buy or not, to modify or not. I do wonder however what percentage of modellers are REALLY bothered about some of the details discussed on this forum, the 10% is probably not far out. What percentage of the total modelling fraternity are members of this forum? 

 

I am not surprised that SK can sound waspish at the end of a long day at an exhibition, some modellers go on at great length about minute details and completely ignore the fact that their rails are too close together.  Fair comment by all means but don't get carried away, it's only a hobby, not life and death.

 

Roger.

 

 

 

Point one....did you read my posting accurately? Because you are repeating most of it.

Point two.....most members of this forum who care about RM are passionate about it,are knowledgeable and deserving of respect.They do not misuse or abuse this wantonly

If you are not,as you say,'really bothered about it',why are you posting in such a dismissive way...indeed why are you bothering with the '10 percenters' or electing to be one of them by posting ?

[Ozexpatriate]

The highly respected modeller John Cherry is poking fun at us GWR fanatics on MREmag and apparently the black five has had the wrong bogie wheels for 5 years.That's ok then.A good day.

 

http://www.mremag.com/news/bulletin.asp

If LMS modellers can't be bothered checking to see how many spokes wheels have, that's their own look out.

 

Does the twelve spoked wheel look "bad"? No.

Will it work properly? Presumably (though some people have indicated the front bogie can ride a little high and reduce haulage),

We just know that it happens to be wrong.

Can I live with it? I don't know, I haven't decided yet, but hopefully the fix is easily managed.

 

If this were 1979 and Hornby had only one kind of bogie wheelset for all steam engines we wouldn't care. But the fact is that they have made models of GWR 4-6-0 locomotives with ten-spoked wheels for donkey's years.

 

They got it right on Albert Hall (despite the "bonus" smoke box number).

 

Is such a simple detail really too much to ask in 2013?  We understand that it is a simple mistake - just like the bogies on the B-set coaches. Whomever reviewed the model missed it. OK, we all missed it too - until 'real' pictures arrived.

 

What I've learned about "us" is that to assess a model, we need, at a minimum, a photograph of an EP sample or the production item before lots of people give it careful scrutiny. (The corollary of this observation is that based on past experience we don't/can't trust what is in the catalogue.)

Edited November 7, 2013 by Ozexpatriate

[G-BOAF]

...

If this were 1979 and Hornby had only one kind of bogie wheelset for all steam engines we wouldn't care. But the fact is that they have made models of GWR 4-6-0 locomotives with ten-spoked wheels for donkey's years.

 

They got it right on Albert Hall (despite the "bonus" smoke box number).

 

Is such a simple detail really too much to ask in 2013?  We understand that it is a simple mistake - just like the bogies on the B-set coaches. Whomever reviewed the model missed it. OK, we all missed it too - until 'real' pictures arrived.

...

 

This is a further nub, and why I feel this is an important thread. We know Hornby can do a marvillous job, and that the modeller is prepared to pay top notch for a top model. When I was at school and as a university undergrad, if I improved, I got good feedback, if this level was maintained, fedback was directed at achieving further improvement, if I slipped back to a lower standard, the response was "I know you can do better, why have you not done so in this case?"

 

We know Hornby can get it right and do a good job. Hence the response over the Star. Not necessarily perfection, but at least maintaining past standards.

Edited November 7, 2013 by G-BOAF

[robmcg]

One wonders indeed why Churchward himself sought improvement when he could have simply copied Drummond....

..surely there was no need for further increase in power for West of England services... just run more trains more often, but no, Swindon had to go their own way .

(Two lovely Hornby models.)

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2013 by robmcg

[7013]

If anyone has changed or is about to change the wheels from 12 to 10 spoke wheels could I request some photos that show how you made the change? It would be useful for us who have not done this before to see a 'how to' so that we hopefully do not make a pigs ear of it. 

Thanks

Andi

[coachmann]

Someone asked if the 12 spoke wheel looked "bad" and decided no.  Twelve spoke bogie wheels were common on ex North Eastern and particular LNER standard locos and were associated with those locos. But fit them to other locos on the LNER and the other Big Four locos and they cry out "wrong", or at least they did at one time amongst railway enthusiasts and modllers. It is also said some people dont care, but what then do they care about?

Edited November 8, 2013 by coachmann

[Nimbus]

If this were 1979 and Hornby had only one kind of bogie wheelset for all steam engines we wouldn't care. But the fact is that they have made models of GWR 4-6-0 locomotives with ten-spoked wheels for donkey's years.

 

They got it right on Albert Hall (despite the "bonus" smoke box number).

 

The irony is that, I read, Hornby sought confirmation that LNER B17s were fitted with 12-spoke bogie wheels, as they were sceptical of their early researches' suggestion that the design departed from the standard 10-spoke pattern!

 

The Nim.

[The Stationmaster]

One wonders indeed why Churchward himself sought improvement when he could have simply copied Drummond....

 

..surely there was no need for further increase in power for West of England services... just run more trains more often, but no, Swindon had to go their own way .

 

(Two lovely Hornby models.)

 

T9_BR_30288_shed_2abcd_r1200_crop3.jpg

 

 

I would think a 'Star' could probably pull at least three of those things backwards!

[Miss Prism]

4018 did not have a left-hand side lubricator cover c 1923. 

[bobwyer]

Out of idle curiosity, while fiddling, I discovered that the inside pv cover from Tintagel Castle fits very nicely onto KOGC thus enabling the Kings of the Star class to be modelled without resource to extra lining on fireboxes of BR versions, freeing up the Star PV cover to be fitted to an early version without ejector and top feed.  Slight alteration to boiler fittings, carefull removal of top feed and probably wimping out with WW1 austerity finish, but that's the fun!!

[pete55]

If anyone has changed or is about to change the wheels from 12 to 10 spoke wheels could I request some photos that show how you made the change? It would be useful for us who have not done this before to see a 'how to' so that we hopefully do not make a pigs ear of it. 

Thanks

Andi

 

If you go to Alan Gibson homepage,  http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/  click on Downloads, and then R-T-R conversions, there are a number of down loadable PDF sheets on how to convert various Hornby locos with pictures and notes.....admittedly for EM gauge, but the principles are just the same for 00, just omit the spacing bushes, and use the shorter 00 axle supplied with the new wheels.

The Hornby Star will appear there in due course!

Edited November 8, 2013 by pete55

[7013]

Sorry pete55 but the site was not particularly helpful as it does not feature the Star or even a Castle, thanks anyway will hope that someone posts some photos

[pete55]

Sorry pete55 but the site was not particularly helpful as it does not feature the Star or even a Castle, thanks anyway will hope that someone posts some photos

 

I know there is no Castle there yet, nor the Star. I did say these would appear in due course.

 

If you look at the Hornby B17 sheet, there is a picture showing re wheeling of the bogie. For 00 you do not need the brass spacers.

The Star bogie is just the same principle.....the axles run in holes through the casting.

It is just a matter of removing one Hornby wheel on one side, pulling the axle with the other wheel still attached through the casting and discarding.

Mount one Gibson wheel onto its axle, thread this axle with  a wheel on one end through the axle hole in the casting, and pop the second wheel on the other end after its passed through the bogie casting.

Repeat for the second bogie axle.

 

Hope that makes it a bit clearer.

[rembrow]

Sorry pete55 but the site was not particularly helpful as it does not feature the Star or even a Castle, thanks anyway will hope that someone posts some photos

 

If its any help, I've ordered a Hornby Castle front bogie (latest version) spare from Trackside Cars of Eastleigh, via e-bay (*key in Q - Hornby Castle spares), couldn't find anything on Peters Spares site apart from the old style Castle bogie. This was £6.00 plus £1.80 p&p. I went down this route to try and ensure uniform appearance of tone and colour with the rest of the Star wheelset.

Another interesting development regarding availability of KOGC was that Kernow Models had sold out of their initial delivery (quoted earlier in this thread) and advised in last weeks newsletter that Hornby had indicated a December delivery for their next batch, however Kernow have now advised that that have received this week, the further stock that they were advised would not arrive until December. --- Will the last one out of Hornby at Margate please turn the light out

[7013]

Thanks Pete55 sounds fairly straightforward so when I get mine I will follow your advice.

[gwrrob]

Thanks Pete55 sounds fairly straightforward so when I get mine I will follow your advice.

 

Anyone going to the Warley show will be glad to hear that Alan Gibson has his stand [D39] for the correct bogie wheels,he might sell out ! and Steam Swindon will be there for us to ask when we are getting Lode Star.I won't be asking Mr Kohler.

[micklner]

Simon Kohler new nickname 12 spoke !!

[coachmann]

Simon Kohler new nickname 12 spoke !!

Simon should use his 'design clever' to save spokes. Afterall, he is Hornby's spokes person...

Edited November 8, 2013 by coachmann

[robmcg]

I would think a 'Star' could probably pull at least three of those things backwards!

 

(edit; With due respect to Churchward in his reply to directors), not with the rubber tyres on the T9!  At least, not the Hornby model.

 

Does anyone remember the Ringfield Motor test around 1960 when Hornby ran a Bristol Castle at speed continuously for, from memory, about 7 days non-stop in public to display the robust qualities of the product?  At least it was probably in the Meccano Magazine... 

 

Shades of the days ...  (sorry, the image of a Star hauling 3 T9s backwards got me thinking, it would make a good display)

Edited November 8, 2013 by robmcg

[robmcg]

Will people who sell 10-spoke converted Stars be offering bespoke models?

 

 

(groan)

 

 

take the pills Rob

 

p.s. the confusion over my pic of a T9  might be cleared up a little if read in the context of a reply to a preceding post about errors and improvement, and how the Star represented pretty much state-of-the-art steam engineering, and the T9 in its own way excelled too,  and the Hornby models can be seen the light of error accepted (or not) and fixed. The T9 had a few errors, a couple fairly major, and they were fixed. Engine ride-height and reversed tender frames mainly. I hope Hornby will fix the errors on the Star.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Rob

Edited November 8, 2013 by robmcg

[gwrrob]

I'm surprised Hornby aren't charging more for the twelve spoke bogied Star as there's more metal/material needed to make them.

[Nile]

Will people who sell 10-spoke converted Stars be offering bespoke models?

 

 

De-spoked models, surely?

 

[feel free to groan]

[Oldddudders]

I would think a 'Star' could probably pull at least three of those things backwards!

No info on that - but my T9s will happily pick up a dozen Hornby Maunsells with no slipping, so probably exceed the capability of the prototype. I wonder if the Star does, as well.