East West rail, Bletchley to oxford line

[Tony Teague]

1 minute ago, Ray H said:

We appear to have inherited some extra bus routes between Milton Keynes and Aylesbury.

 

We now seem to have the 100 operated by Red Rose plus the 150 and X60 operated by Arriva, all three having been around for at least a few years. New kids on the block are Arriva routes X4 and X6, the latter like the X60, running via Buckingham.

 

I doubt too many people will routinely make the full journey but I wonder if the introduction of the newest two are a precursor to the rail link?

...or perhaps seeing an opportunity in the absence of any news whatever as to whether the rail link will ever be built?

[Bernard Lamb]

8 minutes ago, Ray H said:

We appear to have inherited some extra bus routes between Milton Keynes and Aylesbury.

 

We now seem to have the 100 operated by Red Rose plus the 150 and X60 operated by Arriva, all three having been around for at least a few years. New kids on the block are Arriva routes X4 and X6, the latter like the X60, running via Buckingham.

 

I doubt too many people will routinely make the full journey but I wonder if the introduction of the newest two are a precursor to the rail link?

That helps to explain why we now have an X5.

There seems to be quite a few changes of late, with several old route numbers appearing in different forms.

Bernard

[Pete the Elaner]

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

Looks like it:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/gb-nr:BLY/to/gb-nr:BDM/2024-02-19/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=LM

 

Hourly each hour for most of the day too. That is good.

IIRC, they used to be about 1 hour & 10 minutes apart, so you could not just remember "x minutes past the hour" because it changed every hour, which made the service a bit annoying & therefore less useable.

[KingEdwardII]

10 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Hourly each hour for most of the day too. That is good.

A lesson learned a long time ago - which makes it very strange that it was not adopted before. Was it deliberate, I wonder?

 

Yours, Mike.

[Metropolitan H]

On 16/02/2024 at 19:45, Ray H said:

We appear to have inherited some extra bus routes between Milton Keynes and Aylesbury.

 

We now seem to have the 100 operated by Red Rose plus the 150 and X60 operated by Arriva, all three having been around for at least a few years. New kids on the block are Arriva routes X4 and X6, the latter like the X60, running via Buckingham.

 

I doubt too many people will routinely make the full journey but I wonder if the introduction of the newest two are a precursor to the rail link?

The 150 has become the Arriva X4, while the X60 has become the Arriva X6.

 

The Stagecoach X6 route is completely different being the direct bus from MK through Grafton Regis and Roade to Northampton.

 

There is also now an Arriva X5 from Aylesbury which runs south to Hemel Hempstead - it is completely UNrelated to the Stagecoach X5 from Bedford to Oxford via MK, Buckingham and Bicester.

 

Regards

Chris H

[cctransuk]

12 minutes ago, Metropolitan H said:

The 150 has become the Arriva X4, while the X60 has become the Arriva X6.

 

The Stagecoach X6 route is completely different being the direct bus from MK through Grafton Regis and Roade to Northampton.

 

There is also now an Arriva X5 from Aylesbury which runs south to Hemel Hempstead - it is completely UNrelated to the Stagecoach X5 from Bedford to Oxford via MK, Buckingham and Bicester.

 

Regards

Chris H

 

So much for co-ordination with a view to avoiding customer confusion!

 

CJI.

[62613]

19 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

So much for co-ordination with a view to avoiding customer confusion!

 

CJI.

The world of unregulated (mostly) privatised bus services, where it's almost possible to remove, add, or alter a bus route with very little notice

[Ryde-on-time]

Good to see a full reopening of the Marston Vale line today with all buses finally replaced with class 150’s. London Northwestern are also offering £1 fares to encourage passengers to return and there seemed quite a few on each train. (not sure all the car drivers in the area were so enthusiastic!). A video of trains:

 

 

 

[melmerby]

7 hours ago, 62613 said:

The world of unregulated (mostly) privatised bus services, where it's almost possible to remove, add, or alter a bus route with very little notice

However in Metro areas the bus services are regulated, whoever operates it.

[melmerby]

35 minutes ago, Ryde-on-time said:

Good to see a full reopening of the Marston Vale line today with all buses finally replaced with class 150’s. London Northwestern are also offering £1 fares to encourage passengers to return and there seemed quite a few on each train. (not sure all the car drivers in the area were so enthusiastic!).

 

 

I wonder how many passengers it carried?

I couldn't see many getting on or off and the vehicles didn't seem particularly well filled.

Maybe it'll take a while for news to get around.

Edited February 19 by melmerby

[Nearholmer]

They’ll need to build-up faith in it, which I guess is what the three months is about, because it was forever being bustituted even before the trains evaporated completely.

[Edwin_m]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

However in Metro areas the bus services are regulated, whoever operates it.

Currently only in London, which was exempted from deregulation in 1986, and a franchise system just starting up in Manchester under recent devolved powers.  Several other cities are looking seriously at doing the same, but haven't done yet.  

[melmerby]

22 minutes ago, Edwin_m said:

Currently only in London, which was exempted from deregulation in 1986, and a franchise system just starting up in Manchester under recent devolved powers.  Several other cities are looking seriously at doing the same, but haven't done yet.  

Wrong

TfWM has been regulating buses for some time. They set the fares and have even got some franchised routes with their own branding.

Edited February 19 by melmerby

[phil-b259]

8 hours ago, melmerby said:

Wrong

TfWM has been regulating buses for some time. They set the fares and have even got some franchised routes with their own branding.

 

It depends how you define 'some time'.....

 

Do not confuse the ability for regional transport bodies to subside routes or enter agreements with commercial bus companies to provide multi-mode / multi operator based ticketing schemes within their areas with the ability completely organise all aspects of bus operation as has long been the case in the Capital.

 

The legal powers needed to do the latter and effectively copy the London / TfL setup were only granted in 2023 IIRC which is not exactly a long time ago.

 

 

 

Edited February 20 by phil-b259

[melmerby]

11 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

It depends how you define 'some time'.....

 

Do not confuse the ability for regional transport bodies to subside routes or enter agreements with commercial bus companies to provide multi-mode / multi operator based ticketing schemes within their areas with the ability completely organise all aspects of bus operation as has long been the case in the Capital.

 

The legal powers needed to do the latter and effectively copy the London / TfL setup were only granted in 2023 IIRC which is not exactly a long time ago.

 

 

 

Not talking about Manchester.

TfWM has the power to run bus services, which carry the West Midlands Bus branding and livery and are franchised out to two operators, TfWM control the whole operation and it currently extends to (IIRC) 4 routes which have been running for some time. The tickets on these routes carry the WM bus branding, unlike other tickets in the region, which have the actual carrier's branding.

 

(They also own, operate and maintain the West Midlands Metro, no private involvement at all, unlike TfGM.)

 

The situation in the West Midlands is, unlike GM with a multiplicity of operators seemingly all doing there own thing, (pre BEE) as 93% of bus services are run by just one operator (National Express), with most of the rest with one other (Rotala), there are minor presences with Arriva and (a recently increased) Stagecoach and a few locals running one or two routes.

 

 

Edited February 20 by melmerby

[Edwin_m]

West Midlands has a statutory enhanced bus partnership.  This offers funding to operators in return for taking agreed measures, but differs from franchising in that it requires the agreement of the operators in question.

 

Quote

The LTA has formal responsibility for making the scheme, but at set points in the process they can only proceed with their proposals if they have the support of a defined proportion of local bus operators.

 

Enhanced partnership guidance

[Nearholmer]

Worth a read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_transport_executive

[phil-b259]

5 hours ago, melmerby said:

Not talking about Manchester.

TfWM has the power to run bus services, which carry the West Midlands Bus branding and livery and are franchised out to two operators, TfWM control the whole operation and it currently extends to (IIRC) 4 routes which have been running for some time. The tickets on these routes carry the WM bus branding, unlike other tickets in the region, which have the actual carrier's branding.

 

(They also own, operate and maintain the West Midlands Metro, no private involvement at all, unlike TfGM.)

 

The situation in the West Midlands is, unlike GM with a multiplicity of operators seemingly all doing there own thing, (pre BEE) as 93% of bus services are run by just one operator (National Express), with most of the rest with one other (Rotala), there are minor presences with Arriva and (a recently increased) Stagecoach and a few locals running one or two routes.

 

 

I did indeed initially confuse which ex PTE area you were talking about but that doesn’t really matter.
 

Under  and Thatcher's bus de-regulation legislation of the mid 1980s the bulk of what you you talk about was illegal for at least 3 decades!

 

Its only in the past couple of years that authorities like TfWM have been able to carry out the actions you describe.

 

Hence 2 or so years against a backdrop of deregulation being in place for 30+ doesn’t sit well with the phrase ‘some time’

Edited February 20 by phil-b259

[melmerby]

The idea of a single brand for West Midlands buses was started in 2021.

I must confess it's not true franchising as in the TfGM model (as I incorrectly said at first) but a sort of precursor.

 

TfWM got the co-operation of two operators (National Express & Rotala) to run a service jointly to the Authority's specification.

I.E the timetable is designed by TfWM, the buses are nominally* operated by West Midlands Buses, the fare structure is set by TfWM and the buses are branded "West Midlands Buses".

After the initial roll out this has expanded to cover more routes, which now total about 9.

They were chosen as the two operators have garages close to the area served by the routes and keep a dedicated fleet especially for the services.

 

I was reading about the setting up of the "Bee" network and I know Rotala made an official objection to it but it was overuled, however Rotala are prepared to accept full franchising in the West Midlands without objecting. Which is expected within the next couple of years.

Another possible player is Stagecoach, who surprisingly won several supported routes around Solihull, Coventry & parts of Warwickshire at a recent round of bids.

There is talk of them wanting a garage in the WM area as the buses currently travel from Rugby to the services. A lot of dead mileage.

 

I think the situation in the WM has developed as it has due to the vast majority of services being with National Express who have a good relationship with TfWM, as do Rotala that have many of the rest.

 

*It's shown as the operator in the timetables

 

I think we have drifted a long way from Bletchley😄

Edited February 20 by melmerby

[Pannier Tank]

On 21/11/2023 at 14:15, Phil Parker said:

 

True. I'll lock the thread and do a clean up eventually.

 

Just a gentle reminder that this thread was previously locked due to 'off topic" posts.

[lmsforever]

Glad the first section is coming together well but the arguments around the last section  are worrying it seems that the relevant people in charge are unable to make a decisi on  this is a bad time for the project.  Its a real shame that the DFT  did not pursue the project twenty years ago but hindsight is a wonderful thing  as costs obviously would have been lower and there was a need then for the line. I hope that the Aylesbury extension is built but I am not filled with hope. There seems to be a view within Daft that its not a project they should promote ,typical where Aylesbury is concerned . Over the years a bypass has put on hold and other nescary works have been pushed back ,if the line to MK is opened and promoted in an energtic way passengers would be forthcoming .But with the attitude of Daft we are going to be waiting for a long time  and I have a feeling that they are not really interested in a scheme that could take many cars off the road and also add many more journey options for the people of Aylesbury ,but dont hold your breath !!!

[2750Papyrus]

East-West have reported 75% of people polled supported a Bedford-Cambridge link.

 

BBC headline: Bedford poll suggests strong support for East West Rail - BBC News

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, 2750Papyrus said:

East-West have reported 75% of people polled supported a Bedford-Cambridge link.

 

BBC headline: Bedford poll suggests strong support for East West Rail - BBC News

 

You can load such a survey though.

If you poll people from places, in particular those in Bedfordshire villages on the line like Stewartby, Ridgmont & Lidlington, asking them first if they would like better access to Cambridge & Oxford, then I am sure you will find many in favour.

If you asked only people who will be on the proposed new route but not have access to a station & also ensure you include all those who will have their houses compulsory purchased, then you will get a very different result.

 

Naturally you would not disclose exactly who you polled for the survey.

[IWCR]

I  would  ignore  all  polls.  they  will  justify  the  opinion  of  those  paying  for  them.

Some  years  ago  where  I  live  there  was  a  planning  application  for  two  very  large  wind  turbines,  the  applicant  had  an  telephone  poll  carried  out  to  produce  a  report  showing   general  public  support  for  these.

I  was  one  of  those  contacted,  on  going  through  address  and  post  code  details  I  was  told  my  opinion  was  not  wanted  and  would  not  be  recorded  as  they  already  had  enough  results  from  my  post  code.  The  post  code  in  question  covers  a  total  of  3  properties  all  of  which  were  less  than  400  yards  from  the  Turbine  site.

Fortunately  there  is  also  the  largest  roost  in  europe  of  a  rare  bat  type  less  than  200  yards  from  the  site!

 

Pete 

[Davexoc]

Looks like the Bletchley - Bedford service has fallen over for today. RTT showing some VST moves and the 15.28 to Bedford cancelled due to staffing issues...