QuoitsPlayer Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I have both a Bachmann Hall, 32-004 Sketty Hall, and a Bachmann 56XX Tank, 32-075, both are using Bachmann 36-553 Decoders on the Bachmann Dynamis control system. The engines run fine on DC but on DCC jerk and stutter and are basically useless unless i want them running at full speed! I've altered CV's as recommended by Bachmann and they still won't work . I was wondering if anyone had any advice please as I feel like going back to DC at the moment! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crocodile414 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I have also had issues with Bachmann steam engines on DCC. Which particular CV's have you changed? In my experience it really is trial and error. I have found that fiddling with CV49 (Back EMF) usually helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoitsPlayer Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Sorry forgot to add which CV's I've altered! CV 2, CV5, CV49 and CV's 54/55 which haven't improved running sadly. My Hornby steam loco's all run well with Bachmann Decoders as do Diesels from both Bachmann/Hornby just not Bachmann steam engines. Edited January 11, 2013 by QuoitsPlayer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crocodile414 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Those are all the ones I'd attempt to alter. Can't remember what values I've set them at though. Perhaps try doing a decoder reset and work on each CV individually (sorry if this sounds like teaching you to suck eggs!) Do you have any other decoders you could try? I have used the Hornby R8249 in a few locos and a good friend of mine uses them in all his Bachmann steam locos and they run fine. Best of luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2013 You need to set CV54/55 to the Bachmann-recommended settings - http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/decoder_settings.pdf These are not the default and will have to be re-entered if the decoder is reset. Alternatively use a better quality decoder such as a Lenz Standard+. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted January 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2013 I have both a Bachmann Hall, 32-004 Sketty Hall, and a Bachmann 56XX Tank, 32-075, both are using Bachmann 36-553 Decoders on the Bachmann Dynamis control system. The engines run fine on DC but on DCC jerk and stutter and are basically useless unless i want them running at full speed! I've altered CV's as recommended by Bachmann and they still won't work . I was wondering if anyone had any advice please as I feel like going back to DC at the moment! Try removing the motor suppression caps, that will stop the jerky behaviour immediately. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 You need to set CV54/55 to the Bachmann-recommended settings ... Alternatively use a better quality decoder such as a Lenz Standard+. My experience with the 36-553 decoder to drive a small motor such as in a Bachmann steam model is that the set up is very 'tweaky'. Use the Bachmann CV54/55 suggested settings as the start point, and then make small adjustments and re-evaluate, until you find an acceptable set up. Definitely remove capacitors too as already recommended by Andi. I would go straight to the suggested Lenz standard though, which will drive these motors beautifully. The Bach decoder will work very happily with a larger motor, and especially one with a flywheel. I have them in several centre motor diesel types, and with this load they are absolutely fine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 12, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2013 I would go straight to the suggested Lenz standard though, which will drive these motors beautifully. I would second that. Sketty Hall: Decoder fits neatly in the space provided by Bachmann in the boiler weight carrier. Does not need the caps removing (neither did a TCS M1) to run well. If you have access to some roofing lead (or similar) a small replacement weight can be fabricated to sit alongside the decoder restoring adhesion weight. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoitsPlayer Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 Many thanks to everyone for their advice. I'll try going down the Lenz route first, one's winging its way from Liverpool as I type, I really have despaired over the Hall so thanks and hopefully it'll work now. Just to say I have the 36-553 in my Hornby Castle and it works well just doesn't like Bachmann steam loco's. Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoitsPlayer Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Just to say thanks to everyone who contributed; Sketty Hall now runs beautifully with its Lenz decoder gone from being unusable to hauling 5 coach trains (my max limit) no problem! Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 23, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2013 Just to say thanks to everyone who contributed; Sketty Hall now runs beautifully with its Lenz decoder gone from being unusable to hauling 5 coach trains (my max limit) no problem! Matt Excellent. Glad you got it sorted. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Was it the Lenz Standard decoder you bought, Matt? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 This is an old common problem with the Bachmann decoders. The default values for Back EMF are suited to diesel locos with larger motors and maybe with flywheels too. They just do not suit Bachmann steam locos with their small motors, and maybe binding valve gear at all. Even Bachmanns own suggested values for individual locos do not work well. The defaults are CV54=32 and CV55=24. I've changed them drastically ! I have a Bachmann 3F which now runs nice and smoothly, but I've set CV54 to 1. and CV55 to 60. Of course, this loco has no valve gear to bind, but then neither does a Hall ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoitsPlayer Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share Posted January 25, 2013 Was it the Lenz Standard decoder you bought, Matt? Yes it was thanks, it was the Lenz Digital Standard the product code is: L10231. It really has improved the Hall, I even managed to shunt with it earlier! Judging by the success of the decoder in the Hall I will be upgrading all my steam locos to Lenz as the change is unbelievable. I have to say in fairness to Bachmann that their 36-553 decoder works perfectly in my Hornby Class 60 although it made my Hornby 73 sound like a bag of spanners! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) The Lenz decoders are so reliable in my opinion, I've tried most, but keep coming back to them. The slight problem is the size where limited space is available And at less than £16 for a Lenz Standard these days.....you cant go wrong. I get mine from this guy, great service, great price. http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/shop/dcc_digital_loco_sounds/lenz_roco_digital_control_part_2_digital_decoders/ Bob Edited January 25, 2013 by 250BOB 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 26, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2013 The Lenz decoders are so reliable in my opinion, I've tried most, but keep coming back to them. The slight problem is the size where limited space is available And at less than £16 for a Lenz Standard these days.....you cant go wrong. I get mine from this guy, great service, great price. http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/shop/dcc_digital_loco_sounds/lenz_roco_digital_control_part_2_digital_decoders/ Bob With price of Lenz kit stable and TCS having increased in price over the last couple of years there is little reason not to buy the (IMHO) superior Lenz product. Even if you cant fit a Standard+ in a loco a Silver Mini+ is (again IMHO) excellent value considering it's spec. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 With price of Lenz kit stable and TCS having increased in price over the last couple of years there is little reason not to buy the (IMHO) superior Lenz product. Even if you cant fit a Standard+ in a loco a Silver Mini+ is (again IMHO) excellent value considering it's spec. Keith It's not very often we are replying to these threads when it's a Lenz decoder problem.!!! I have a couple of the Lenz minis, I just have to solder an 8 pin plug onto the 4 required wires, that's the only slight downside of that decoder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 26, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2013 I have a couple of the Lenz minis, I just have to solder an 8 pin plug onto the 4 required wires, that's the only slight downside of that decoder. Strangely there seems to be two omissions in the Lenz range. A Standard Mini+ and a Silver Mini+ with plug! Maybe the first is not considered viable (It would presumably be more expensive, approaching the cost of a Silver), but the second is an odd omission. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted January 26, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) Strangely there seems to be two omissions in the Lenz range. A Standard Mini+ and a Silver Mini+ with plug! Maybe the first is not considered viable (It would presumably be more expensive, approaching the cost of a Silver), but the second is an odd omission. Keith You can get the Silver Mini+ with an NEM 6-pin plug (same price as the version with wires) and then use a 6-pin to 8-pin converter if you don't want to solder on a plug yourself, eg http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DCC-DECODER-CABLE-HARNESS-WITH-6-PIN-651-SOCKET-TO-8-PIN-652-PLUG-PART-NO-DCC17-/330726994847?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item4d00dd739f The other item missing from the range is a Standard21+ for those situations where you don't need the extra functionality. Edited January 26, 2013 by RFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 26, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 26, 2013 The other item missing from the range is a Standard21+ for those situations where you don't need the extra functionality. If you are thinking of a TCS 21pin (my original choice for Bachmann tender locos) the Lenz Silver + 21pin can be obtained for virtually the same price! A minimum function version would be nice though. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
liathach Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) Hello all, I eventually went DCC last year. I initially tried Gaugemaster and DCC Concepts...both very poor running. Tried Lenz: much better control albeit the big step from standing put me off them. Similar with ESU. Eventually settled on Zimo decoders. They have far more choice with the CV range. I was happy initially with the Bachmann Halls, but realised at medium to high speeds, just the Halls (not other Bachmann or Hornby locos) had an odd start-stop-start staccato wheel revolution. Formerly on DC they were silky smooth. After testing all sorts, I reduced the compensation far lower than with other locos. Also, Zimo gives the option to reduce compensation cut off (rather than switch off completely) at a set speed step. After experimentation with reducing compensation cut-off at a moderate speed to about a third of the low-speed compensation, the rhythm of the Hall loco movement looks much better. I've not yet tested if this gives satisfactory running when double-heading. Edited October 10, 2019 by liathach Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted October 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2019 Are there capacitors? I seem to recall back when they were first introduced to DCC the capacitors caused all sorts of issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
liathach Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 (edited) I've had a bit of time to look closely at the behaviour of one of my Bachmann Halls with the body off. Watching the rotation of the motor on DCC, the motor has a propensity to keep rapidly stalling. I believe this is due to the design: the three poles with relatively large gaps barely covered as they rotate between the two brushes. Tested on DC, the Hall motors worked well. Without the motor in the cradle, the chassis rolls smoothly. I do have a number of other Bachmann steam engines and none seem as jerky as the Halls (this is probably due to different gearing). I tried a number of different decoders. In the end I have settled for a Zimo MX633R. Having CV9 set in excess 100 improves smooth starting transition, at the expense of motor noise. As and when i get to a show, I might hunt for an alternative motor that might fit in the Hall cradle. Edited December 15, 2019 by liathach Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveannessant Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Hi, I'm also having problems with a non split chassis Bachmann Hall (32-001 6937 Conyngham Hall). It ran ok with a TCS decoder, but I've now fitted an ESU Loksound V5 decoder and double Ice Cube speaker. The model now runs very poorly, even after removing the capacitors, I've tried the ESU auto tune with CV54 and it ran worse, I've followed the ESU V5 manual, and altered CV's 51 to 56 and 116 to 119, and it still runs very poorly, I do think that the problem is with the 3 pole motor. I've removed the motor and it rolls along very smoothly, so I'm pretty sure that there's no mechanical faults. I've also used the same decoders in two other models equipped with Mashima 5 pole motors and got them to run quite smoothly, other Bachmann & Hornby steam loco's have Zimo sound decoders and they run silky smooth, and in my honest opinion are a much better decoder than the Loksound. Has anyone else had the same or similar problems with this model and decoder combination, and has anyone got a set of CV values that cured the problem? Before I commit to major surgery and fit a Mashima motor and Branchlines gearbox to this model......... I know that a Mashima 1424 (confusingly called a 1624) flat can fits in the Bachmann Std 5, so it might just fit the Bachmann motor mounting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Eveannessant said: I know that a Mashima 1424 (confusingly called a 1624) flat can fits in the Bachmann Std 5, so it might just fit the Bachmann motor mounting. What's a Mashima 1424? I've got 1624s which measure 16mm across the case and 24 long. Like this one with a High Level gearbox: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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