updating Hornby class 91 and mk 4 stock

[Marcyg]

Mine's still got the original motor as I havn't got round to attacking it! It'll pull a full set of coaches OK. I got to be careful starting it off or it'll spin up, but it'll plod along quite fine with all the coaches. I have rewheeled the coaches to full metal ones, made sure they spin freely and have 3ft radius curves, but other than that, it's a standard Hornby issue unit

[Adamphillip]

will a bullant bogie work? and which one?

 

i need a new body for it because we fluffed up the holes for the lights!

[sub39h]

i was looking into BullAnt for replacing the bogie on my HST set. I have a full 225 rake too which needs updating but I want to work on the HST first.

 

I was told by a supplier that the BullAnt motor is quite noisy and not really very good at heavy haulage so a full rake of Mk3s on an HST was out of the question and I'd imagine that the same will apply to the 225. 

 

As mentioned I've got my sights elsewhere at the minute, but I have the 225 train set and a separate Class 91 "Sir Henry Royce". I figured I'd use the chassis from the train set Class 91 and put it in the DVT and remotor them both with newer 5 pole motors. Would that work? Edit: side by side comparison reveals that the bogies are different sizes. Will have to look into suitable replacement. 

[Adamphillip]

i was looking into BullAnt for replacing the bogie on my HST set. I have a full 225 rake too which needs updating but I want to work on the HST first.

 

I was told by a supplier that the BullAnt motor is quite noisy and not really very good at heavy haulage so a full rake of Mk3s on an HST was out of the question and I'd imagine that the same will apply to the 225. 

 

As mentioned I've got my sights elsewhere at the minute, but I have the 225 train set and a separate Class 91 "Sir Henry Royce". I figured I'd use the chassis from the train set Class 91 and put it in the DVT and remotor them both with newer 5 pole motors. Would that work? Edit: side by side comparison reveals that the bogies are different sizes. Will have to look into suitable replacement. 

you could fit the other motor into the trailing bogie then wire them together 

[Adamphillip]

I have just come back to this project but i am making an oddball train of mk3s and mk4s and a 91 or 92 pulling it.

[298]

Another option is an Athearn SD45. From memory the bogie centres are slightly short and the wheelbase a bit longer, but it all fits.

[sub39h]

you could fit the other motor into the trailing bogie then wire them together 

 

yep that's the new plan. but i would rather use 2 5-pole motors and they're impossible to find

 

the other problem is that i now want to run 2 Class 91s - one in a Mk4 rake and one in a Mk3 rake so I'll need 4 motors! 

[Adamphillip]

now said 91 has been repurposed as a european intercity loco for hauling european stock on my layout it is going through a revamp to make it look like a prototype loco that is in testing for the eurotunnel this will include class 92 pantograph, close coupling to match the SBB IC coaches and an altered livery.

[class"66"]

Interesting modeling!!! keep up the good work Adam.

 

Will follow this....

[Adamphillip]

to start with i have removed the front dummy light stripand drilled 4 holes

 

in these holes I'll mount fiber optic cable of the correct thickness

 

 

pantograph wise the class 92 pantograph will fit directly into the slots on the 91

 

 

and on the rear i'll be removing the Hornby coupler and replacing it with a nem socket on a close coupling.

 

when pictures are available i'll post them in the gaps

 

[sub39h]

Hi there mate,

 

Do you have any information or links to the fibre optics you'll be using?

 

Also a general question to the forum: has anyone used the Limby R3068 Warship motor bogies to remotor a Class 91? Kernow had cheap Bachmann Warships for ages and I was umming and erring about them but I seem to have missed out. Came across the Railroad Warship and figured if the motors can be supplied individually (and are as cheap as the VEP motors for example) then poppng 2 of those in may have enough haulage power for a full rake?

 

Thanks in advance

[GarrettTheThief]

It's a real shame that Hurst Models no longer have the Mk4/Class 91 detailing parts in stock.

 

Though it doesn't run in the region I want to model, I'm still quite fond of the train (I have a full rake too) so I might just keep it as a haulage train with a diesel towing it.  Since I might repaint the train into a more recent livery, I'll likely use a recent loco (like a Class 67) which tend to have powerful motors, which means I can remove the awful ringfield motor in Class 91 loco,

[Adamphillip]

It's a real shame that Hurst Models no longer have the Mk4/Class 91 detailing parts in stock.

 

Though it doesn't run in the region I want to model, I'm still quite fond of the train (I have a full rake too) so I might just keep it as a haulage train with a diesel towing it.  Since I might repaint the train into a more recent livery, I'll likely use a recent loco (like a Class 67) which tend to have powerful motors, which means I can remove the awful ringfield motor in Class 91 loco,

you can take the cogs out of the ringfield and disconnect the wires

[DavidBird]

 ... i now want to run 2 Class 91s - one in a Mk4 rake and one in a Mk3 rake so I'll need 4 motors! 

 

The 91 did actually run with Mk3s, on KX-Bradford trains before Leeds-Bradford was electrified.  The trains were actually simply a HST set with one PC replaced by the 91, and the remaing HST PC fitted with buffers.  They were hauled between Leeds and Bradford by Cl31s (and back - hence the need for buffers on the Cl43).  The original plan was for the 91 to provide haulage and the 43 just to provide ETS, but apparently with the engines on idle all the time, there were problems with oil build-up in the filters.  So both unit were used for traction power- amazing acceleration    

[sub39h]

The 91 did actually run with Mk3s, on KX-Bradford trains before Leeds-Bradford was electrified.  The trains were actually simply a HST set with one PC replaced by the 91, and the remaing HST PC fitted with buffers.  They were hauled between Leeds and Bradford by Cl31s (and back - hence the need for buffers on the Cl43).  The original plan was for the 91 to provide haulage and the 43 just to provide ETS, but apparently with the engines on idle all the time, there were problems with oil build-up in the filters.  So both unit were used for traction power- amazing acceleration  

 

Hi thanks for that. Yep I was aware that the 91s ran with surrogate DVTs of which I am making 43123 from a new Hornby Swallow HST and a Grand Central chassis. I didn't know that Class 31s hauled the train from Leeds to Bradford tho - I think on another thread someone asked why the HSTs were fitted with buffers in the first place when they already had coupling equipment at the front under the hatch from failures and now I know why! 

[Adamphillip]

The 91 did actually run with Mk3s, on KX-Bradford trains before Leeds-Bradford was electrified.  The trains were actually simply a HST set with one PC replaced by the 91, and the remaing HST PC fitted with buffers.  They were hauled between Leeds and Bradford by Cl31s (and back - hence the need for buffers on the Cl43).  The original plan was for the 91 to provide haulage and the 43 just to provide ETS, but apparently with the engines on idle all the time, there were problems with oil build-up in the filters.  So both unit were used for traction power- amazing acceleration  

oooh thats interesting, must model that now

[deltic79]

And don't forget that the Mk3 TGS was fitted with buffers at the guard's end of the coach to buffer up to the 91.

[SGJ]

This is one of my picks 31404 en rout out of Leeds

 

 

SGJ

 

[SGJ]

This could be helpful

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/70655-class-91s-with-mk3s/

 

SGJ

[Adamphillip]

now all i need is some correct length mk3s and a dummy class 43

[sub39h]

now all i need is some correct length mk3s and a dummy class 43

 

my advice (in regards to the Class 43) would be to get hold of a Grand Central HST set. They seem unloved and you can get them quite cheap. I've seen a mint boxed set go for £60 odd on eBay in the past. I bought a new set from Gaugemaster for £115ish before I realised. I sold the body shells for £35 which means you would end up with a power chassis and a dummy chassis for £25 which is bargain basement. The light units are worth their weight in gold so if you sold one of those on and the dummy chassis you'd probably get your powered chassis essentially for free. You could use the powered chassis and remove the motor from the 91. It should be up to the challenge of a full rake. 

[Adamphillip]

but i want to use the 91 with MK4s on occasion, may still buy a mk4 DVT

[sub39h]

Ah see I assumed you were going to be running two Class 91s. In my head I thought you could have taken the motor from the 2nd 91 and put it in the first so one is dual motored for the Mk4 rake and the other is a dummy propelled by the 43.  

[Adamphillip]

Ah see I assumed you were going to be running two Class 91s. In my head I thought you could have taken the motor from the 2nd 91 and put it in the first so one is dual motored for the Mk4 rake and the other is a dummy propelled by the 43.

 

that'll work as long as it works with a DCC chip

[GarrettTheThief]

How can I create a better light cluster on the loco and DVT?  Can I use the PH Designs Class 90 kit for that?  (I'll just create plasticard versions).  Could I do the same thing on a Mk3 DVT too?