Class 73s could they mutli with Thumpers DEMUs ?

[JamesB 34067]

Hi There,

 I am having a debate with someone  on the subject about  weather JAs Class 73/0s could work with thumpers I am  copying from  straight out of the Diesel and electric locomotives of the southern region book.. which says

'Finally an order for six electro-diesel locomotives was made in July 1959. These were initially designated class JA, subsequently under TOPS initially class 72 but 73/0 was the classification that was implemented. They were numbered E6001-6, subsequently 73001-6. These six were built at the SR's Eastleigh works and are capable of 1600hp (i.e. similar to the Southern's native diesel electric class 33) on straight electrical pick up and 600hp from its own diesel-electric generator set. In tune with the Southern's policy of standardisation and interchangeability of parts the diesel-electric generator set was from the same series as used in the DEMU units and the traction bogies (albeit with different pick up arrangements) as on contemporary EMU and DEMU stock. The class was designed to work in multiple with all other Southern MU stock - with other JAs, EMUs, DEMUs and subsequently JBs, 33/1s and 74s'. But this other person saying  that they never could work with thumpers so was just wondering which one of us is telling the truth?

 

 

Cheers
James

 

 

[40044]

My advice would be to listen to the chap who is telling you that they cannot multi

[Guest oldlugger]

I would say that they could; I think that book is pretty reliable. They share the same buck eye couplings and similar jumper cables, brake hoses, etc. I'm sure that Ian (Olddudders) will soon confirm it one way or the other.

 

Simon

[Lyddrail]

Due to Thumpers having a different controller and not Shunt/Series/Parallel/Weakfield etc like EMUs to control their diesel engine the 27 way jumper did not match. They could haul and operate the brakes but not full multiple working. The one refurbed Thumper was modifed to allow multiple working.

 

Cheers.

[keefer]

southern region (SW) sectional appendix issued 12/76 states:

 

"all types of DEMUs may work together in multiple. No attempt, however, must be made to connect the control jumper cables of a DEMU to any other type of unit, locomotive or vehicle."

 

there is also a table showing what can multiple with what (i.e. locos and EMUs). 73/0 locos are generally less flexible in that they cannot normally multiple with 73/1 or 74 and can only work on diesel power with 33/1. when 73/0 multiple with units, they must be on 'only electric power...no changeover to diesel' and 'only in an electrified area with the traction current switched on'. in addition they cannot be used with 4REP or 4TC

[Southernman46]

southern region (SW) sectional appendix issued 12/76 states:

 

"all types of DEMUs may work together in multiple. No attempt, however, must be made to connect the control jumper cables of a DEMU to any other type of unit, locomotive or vehicle."

due to the 90 volt control voltage used whereas everything else was 70 volts.

 

Interesting boring fact #37

 

"the high level brake pipe cocks between the coaches on Hastings line DEMU's were designed to couple at a far sharper angle than standard SR EMU/DEMU brake cocks"

[keefer]

the sec. app. referred to mentions that the cocks on the high-level pipes are closed when the handle is horizontal/ open when the handle is vertical EXCEPT for some cl.207 (3D) units, where it is the other way round - but that these will be altered to standard pattern as they pass through works

[roythebus]

ISTR the number of pins in the control jumpers on the DEMUS to prevent them being coupled to anything other than another DEMU. As others have said, all 73s and 33s could couple to DEMUS and work air brake only, as could all other air braked locos!  Terrier hauled Thumper maybe? Just remember the extension air pipe!

[Gwiwer]

Exactly as the others have said.  Multiple working could not take place and was explicitly prohibited.  Class 73 locos could however haul SR DEMUs of all classes with the air brake connected.

[John M Upton]

But if I recall correctly a Class 73/0 can not multiple work with a 73/1?

[keefer]

southern region (SW) sectional appendix issued 12/76 states:

 

there is also a table showing what can multiple with what (i.e. locos and EMUs). 73/0 locos are generally less flexible in that they cannot normally multiple with 73/1 or 74 and can only work on diesel power with 33/1

 

in the table mentioned, the multiple working between 73/0 and 73/1 or 74 is described as "prohibited unless otherwise specially authorised."

(but no mention is made of what that would involve)

[Gwiwer]

73/0 and 73/1, also the later 73/2 variant, had control differences and different top speeds.  Double-headed 73s were never common until very recent years when they have been used on heavy engineering trains so it seldom mattered.   With the modest 600hp available on diesel if that traction were required for any great load a 33 was normally rostered instead.

[SRman]

From memory, theoretically the 73/0 and 73/1 could work in multiple using the blue star coupling code connections as opposed to the SR 27 way jumpers.

[Gwiwer]

In theory Jeff that's correct but bear in mind they had different gearing and permitted maximum speeds.  What works on paper doesn't always do so on steel rails

[Xerces Fobe2]

 Double-headed 73s were never common until very recent years when they have been used on heavy engineering trains so it seldom mattered.  

 

I beg to differ- in the late 1980's on the Bournemouth Lines when the 4REP's were been withdrawn with their motors removed for re-use in the Class 442 5WES units. During this time double headed Class 73's were commom hauling 2X 4TC's with a buffet car added. I had one remarkable journey back from Bournemouth on one of these trains with lots of electical flasheing and a good turm of speed!

 

XF

[Gwiwer]

Agreed 2x73/1 were used at times for a period during the Rep / Wes changeover.  A single 73 was often all that was available and on a TCB duty (7 4TC vehicles with a Rep buffet) would drop time owing to the very smart semi-fast point-to-point bookings.  Woking also had a pair (again sometimes only one) rostered on stand-by at the time for what we would call "Thunderbird" duties now.

[eastwestdivide]

Multiple 73s also common enough in the early 80s on 30-wagon trains of HAAs with coal in Kent (made a nice arc on full power!). Pics if you want later, but we're drifting off-topic I suspect.

[Southernman46]

73/0 and 73/1, also the later 73/2 variant, had control differences and different top speeds.  Double-headed 73s were never common until very recent years when they have been used on heavy engineering trains so it seldom mattered.   With the modest 600hp available on diesel if that traction were required for any great load a 33 was normally rostered instead.

Not forgetting the double-headed Gatwick services during the 1984 period when we were regularly setting fire to the bogies until the arc protection was fitted to the bogies.................

 

No 205's involved though...............unless 73205 counts ??