How do you pronounce them?

[69843]

Ok, for a while now I have been wondering if there is a proper way to pronounce British locomotive numbers.

 

With the numbers, how are they pronounced/spelt (eg. six-oh-one-six-three or sixty-one-six-three (60163))? And does the same rule apply to Grouping numbers (eg. four-four-six-eight or fourty-four-sixty-eight (4468))?

 

The reason I ask is speaking to an englishman on the weekend, we couldn't settle on a definitive answer. He goes by the latter method (grouping the numbers), whereas I've always said the numbers individualy.

 

Any light (or shadows) that can be spread on this would be greatly appreciated.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

When steam was still regular service traction it was customary among the enthusiasts I knew (and still know) not to use the BR region number. So 60163 in my experience could be any of 'one hundred and sixty three', 'hundred and sixty three', 'one sixty three' or 'one six three'. Variation in colloquial usage in expression of numbers is such that there is no authority: don't believe anyone who states adamantly 'only this way'.

[Oldddudders]

I'm with the digit-by-digit crowd, and always included all 5. Mine typically began with a 3, so Regional variations may have applied. But then, that was true within BR itself, even before you got to the "Scotland is different" claims..............

[Katier]

Yep Dig-by-Dig here too.

[martin_wynne]

And is it "oh", "nought" or "zero"?

[Ron Ron Ron]

Do you say "oh" or "zero" ?

 

IMHO "oh" is a letter not a number.

[Katier]

oh of course

[eastwestdivide]

And for diesels? In the TOPS era, I usually heard (and used) first two digits, i.e. the class, as a number then last three individually:

47123 = forty-seven one-two-three

or with a "double""

47001 = forty-seven double-oh-one

except for 0-prefixed shunters"

08123 = oh-eight one-two-three

 

But a few people used four-seven-one-two-three for the first example - always sounded odd to me.

Any variations?

[37255]

Speaking primarily as an industrial man, it's not an issue, "6" or "Florence" are pretty straightforward! When it comes to BR stuff, I'd probably be inclined to go for "45-407" (for example), but this is probably more down to having diesels as an interest above main line steam, and so subconsciously derived from the TOPS system.

 

EDIT: 45407 probably not the best example, as that'd naturally come to me as "5-4-0-7", having grown up familiar with it in LMS guise, but in principle!

 

EDIT 2: Beaten to it with the TOPS point then! 

[The Lurker]

Do you say "oh" or "zero" ?

 

IMHO "oh" is a letter not a number.

you may be correct - but I always say "oh" unless speaking to someone on the phone for a credit card or phone number - but even then I use "oh" for the issue date ....

 

the only other time is talking to my youngest who is on the autism spectrum - and then it is definitely a case that zero is the number and "oh" is the letter!

[Guest Natalie Graham]

Do you say "oh" or "zero" ?

 

IMHO "oh" is a letter not a number.

Does it make a difference if the loco in question is a model in double zero gauge?

 

I don't think there is a standardisation. For example I doubt you would hear Flying Scotsman being referred to as Four Thousand Four Hundred and Seventy Two, while equally you would be unlikely to find anyone calling the preserved Midland Compound 'One Zero Zero Zero' 

[martin_wynne]

In the year twenty thirteen, the loco is forty-four seventy-two.

[HillsideDepot]

Then there are things like "Deltic nine" instead of D9009 or 55009. We used to use the names of the 50s rather than the number, and 47901 was always known as "Super Duff". As for numbers, in TOPS era I'd use "forty-seven one, two, three" and with earlier era numbers would tend to use the pairs of numbers for four digit examples "ten fifteen" for D1015 - although in this particular case a nickname,"The Mule" is more likely.

 

So, expanding the topic slightly, what about reporting numbers (headcodes)? I try to use the correct word for the letter i.e. Alpha, Charlie etc, but the last two digits, is it "forty five" or "four five"? Or does it depend on regional variation where the code is a route rather than the train?

 

Adrian

[Nick Holliday]

Somewhere I have a DVD on which the very formal voice-over describes a BR Standard 2-6-4T as "Eighty thousand and twenty three" which sounds completely alien to me!

[Physicsman]

oh of course

 

 

Do you say "oh" or "zero" ?

 

IMHO "oh" is a letter not a number.

 

"Oh" my goodness - what a discussion. I think we need to ask for "Zero" tolerance on this issue.....  

 

Jeff

[Ron Ron Ron]

Does it make a difference if the loco in question is a model in double zero gauge?

 

  

 

 

Funnily enough though, that's how I've heard non-British modellers describe 00, either as double zero, or zero zero (e as in eh and not as in ee).

 

 

.

[clecklewyke]

In my days as a (spotty) spotter in Hull in the fifties and early sixties, nearly all the engines except the dub dees (never double u dees!) were prefixed by "6" so we only used the last four numbers.

 

So, for example,

 

J39 64940 became forty nine forty

 

B1 61309 became thirteen oh nine, and 

 

B16 61444 became fourteen forty four

 

etc.

 

This was endemic among the spotters but I have no idea what the professionals used.

 

Ian

[eastwestdivide]

So is it OO or 00 gauge? 

(a questi0n which might 0nly make sense in s0me f0nts)

 

As for oh or zero, I'll only use zero where there's a chance of ambiguity.

oh-eight-oh-five still sounds like a departure time, and oh-two-oh-eight the dialling code for bits of London after all.

 

I can see this thread going wildly off-topic...

[Guest Natalie Graham]

Funnily enough though, that's how I've heard non-British modellers describe 00, either as double zero, or zero zero (e as in eh and not as in ee) 

 Yet I would bet those same modellers don't refer to 'aitch zero' gauge

[28XX]

Gauge 3

Gauge 2

Gauge 1

Gauge 0

Gauge 00

[Guest Natalie Graham]

So is it OO or 00 gauge? 

(a questi0n which might 0nly make sense in s0me f0nts)

Presumably as 0 gauge and, subsequently, 00 and 'half 0' were a downward progression of the designations of the larger 1, 2 and 3 gauges the number 0 is correct rather than the letter O. 

[Stubby47]

Ok, for a while now I have been wondering if there is a proper way to pronounce British locomotive numbers.

 

With the numbers, how are they pronounced/spelt (eg. six-oh-one-six-three or sixty-one-six-three (60163))? And does the same rule apply to Grouping numbers (eg. four-four-six-eight or fourty-four-sixty-eight (4468))?

 

The reason I ask is speaking to an englishman on the weekend, we couldn't settle on a definitive answer. He goes by the latter method (grouping the numbers), whereas I've always said the numbers individualy.

 

Any light (or shadows) that can be spread on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

I hope you weren't really expecting any clarification, sense or agreement on your question...

[Tiptonian]

Do you say "oh" or "zero" ?

 

IMHO "oh" is a letter not a number.

 

How about regional variation?

On an archive video I have, a driver would refer to (for example) 9F number "nine-two-ort-nine-seven".

[bluebottle]

In my days as a (spotty) spotter in Hull in the fifties and early sixties, nearly all the engines except the dub dees (never double u dees!) were prefixed by "6" so we only used the last four numbers.

 

Here in South Yorks we had to be multi-lingual, with ex-LNER and LMS, Austerities (never “Dub Dees”) and Standard 9Fs, and it was always digit-by-digit.

The pronunciation of the digit “0”? (here he goes with the OED again): “oh, n.²: The Arabic zero, 0; nought. Usually in combination with other numerals.”

 

Gordon

[Dungrange]

I doubt that there is any consistently followed standard be it regionally, or professionally.

 

Personally, for diesel and electric traction, I'd use the TOPS class, followed by the three digit number within the class, generally on a digit by digit basis.  For steam locomotives, I'd tend to say the number digit by digit, but this would to some extent depend on the number.

 

For example, I'd tend to pronounce the steam locomotive number 60163 as six - oh - one - six - three, but if it was a class 60 diesel with the same number (although not that many were produced) I'd definitely pronounce it as sixty - one - six - three.

 

However, for a number such as 60007 (Sir Nigel Gresley), I'd be tempted to say sixty thousand and seven rather than say six - oh - oh - oh - seven.  I would however say sixty - double oh - seven for the Class 60 locomotive with the same number.

 

I therefore think that a lot depends on the number.  Interestingly, I always say zero when quoting my credit card number, but wouldn't when refering to a locomotive number, even although I know it is technically correct.

 

As for the last two digits of train reporting numbers, I would read these as the number: 1A23 would be one - A - twenty three on the basis that it is a sequential number up to 99.

 

Regards

 

David