Tyneside electrics

[New Haven Neil]

I'll post a shot of her in late NCB green tomorrow!

[jwealleans]

Some recent pics of a preserved parcels car here.

[Porcy Mane]

Some recent pics of a preserved parcels car here.

 

Them pics seen vaguely familiar...    

 

P

[Tin Turtle]

Yep, that's me again on the LNER Forum!

[Arpster]

Dunno if you found anything yet but a quick giggle turned up these.

 

Should have known Stafford Linsley would have something in his collection…

A very young Blackgill operator may just have been with him when he took this pic…

 

http://sine.ncl.ac.uk/view_image.asp?digital_doc_id=4536

 

Just catch a glimpse of its West end here: Ninth picture down::

 

http://wallsendhistory.btck.co.uk/Gallery/Wallsend%20Images

 

and finally from the Turners Collection in Tyne & Wear Archives.

So much to see in this phot. Howden Gasworks, the Ballast hills, to Shell/BP tankers being loaded. (probably for Consett plate Mill.  (Via Blackgill).

 

Turners Aerial Photography - Jarrow and Wallsend by Tyne & Wear Archives & Museums, on Flickr

 

Porcy

 

Aha! Excellent discoveries! I didn't realise that it was a tubular-legged steel affair like that. Probably why it was so hastily removed. We currently have the server full of the SINE image collection sitting in our office but nobody really knows what to do with them all any more. Any ideas?

 

That's a cracking aerial photo. The gasworks next to Willington Quay station really was a beast, wasn't it? And is it any wonder that the Riverside Branch was closed to passengers, given how closely it paralleled the old Newcastle and North Shields route for a lot of its length?

 

Arp

[Fat Controller]

Aha! Excellent discoveries! I didn't realise that it was a tubular-legged steel affair like that. Probably why it was so hastily removed. We currently have the server full of the SINE image collection sitting in our office but nobody really knows what to do with them all any more. Any ideas?

 

That's a cracking aerial photo. The gasworks next to Willington Quay station really was a beast, wasn't it? And is it any wonder that the Riverside Branch was closed to passengers, given how closely it paralleled the old Newcastle and North Shields route for a lot of its length?

 

Arp

You could contact my friend Liz Rees at Tyne and Wear Archives, and see if they're of interest- that's how the Turner photos survived.

[Arpster]

Thanks for the suggestion, Brian. The photos are safe; they're all in digital form stored on a server. It is just that there's no funding for doing anything further with them and the web interface is rather clunky at the best of times. I've always thought it would  be great to develop some kind of 'virtual tour' with them, so people could use their smartphones to explore these lost industrial relics, but I wouldn't know where to start with funding.

 

Back to the Tyneside electrics, one of the most fascinating stations on the system was, for me, the huge Manors complex. I'm sure it was a bit of an anachronism to have two stations so large and so close together on the same line as Newcastle Central and Manors (with its nine platforms and terminating services). It must have been an amazing place during electrified years; a huge, cavernous Gormenghast-like empire of multiple waiting rooms, trains every fifteen minutes, steam-hauled services to Northumerland terminating in its northern bays, holidaymakers heading for The Coast and shipyard workers coming home.

 

The photos on Disused Stations give an idea of its size and majesty: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/m/manors_north/index.shtml

 

If only I were old enough to remember it before its life as an unstaffed halt with a bus shelter on its single island platform...

[trisonic]

What was the differences between ES1's and EF1's like the one that ended up at Ilford on the old GER (as was)?

 

Best, Pete.

[Fenman]

What was the differences between ES1's and EF1's like the one that ended up at Ilford on the old GER (as was)?

 

Best, Pete.

 

ES was "Electric Shunter" (see avatar at left!); EF was "Electric Freight". 

 

The former were small machines designed to work over one very short route that was over a very steep gradient and mostly in a foul tunnel - they just plodded back and forth from the freight yard above to the quayside below.

 

The EFs were designed to haul heavy mineral traffic over long distances, and it was one of those that ended up at Shildon (ironically, for use as a shunter).

 

According to Wikipedia, ESs had a power output of 477kW, while the EFs had 820kW.

 

Paul

[Fenman]

PS: the "1" is the locomotive number. So my avatar is of ES1, the only one of the two in the class to survive, ES2 having been scrapped rather than given to me as a present.

 

 

Edit: Actually, I think I might have made that up. I'll do some homework tonight.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Fenman

[Tin Turtle]

Good pages for information on both;

 

EF1 - http://www.lner.info/locos/Electric/ef1eb1.shtml

 

ES1 - http://www.lner.info/locos/Electric/es1.shtml

 

Saw one of two numberplates from EF1 No 5 at Darlington today, not aware of any other surviving bits of the EF1's unfortunately

[Norm81]

Ch 3 in Ken Hoole's "Rail Centres: Newcastle" is dedicated to these, unfortunately only a few pages though.

[Armchair Modeller]

Methinks the EF1s should have been used double-headed to run trains over the Woodhead route. It would have given modellers a bit more variety

 

Was there any difference in the power supply between the Woodhead route and the NER electrification to prevent this - without modifying the locos themselves? Also, I guess the EF1s weren't equipped for operating in multiple?

[Clive Mortimore]

Methinks the EF1s should have been used double-headed to run trains over the Woodhead route. It would have given modellers a bit more variety

 

Was there any difference in the power supply between the Woodhead route and the NER electrification to prevent this - without modifying the locos themselves? Also, I guess the EF1s weren't equipped for operating in multiple?

Hi Armchair

 

The EF1 were 1500v dc the same as used on the Woodhead. After the closure of the Shildon electrics they were placed in storage and plans werer made to use them as bankers on the Woodhead. Only 26510 ( ex NER 11) was modified for the role. Single pantograph and internal alteraions incresing its powwer from 1,100hp to a wapping 1,256hp. They were withdrawn in 1950 as not required as bankers. Only No 11 survied as Pete has mentioned at Iilford car sheds.

[Tin Turtle]

PS: the "1" is the locomotive number. So my avatar is of ES1, the only one of the two in the class to survive, ES2 having been scrapped rather than given to me as a present.

 

 

Edit: Actually, I think I might have made that up. I'll do some homework tonight.

 

Fenman, it's the first i've heard of it. I recall ES1 is the class designation, can't remember by LNER or BR though. At first in NER service they both had 'CLASS ELECTRIC 1' on the bufferbeam but apparently this wasn't seen in any NER documentation. The writing was very small and faint and underneath the coupling, I can only notice it on a head-on shot of No 2 as built with the bonnet mounted bow collector so can't tell how long it lasted, so it appears the NER didn't actually name the Quayside electric class, or any of the other electrics. a quick flick through the Ken Hoole book doesn't show any of the three electrics referred to as ES1, EF1 or EE1 either

 

The best book is Ken Hoole's 'The Electric Locomotives of the North Eastern Railway', one of the first railway books I bought at a young age, believe it's out of print now. Some parts are incorrect, Bill Donald as mentioned previously has done a lot of research into the NER electrics, both locomotives and units, the most interesting thing to me that he has discovered is that the bonnet mounted bow collector was removed before they entered service in 1905.

 

There is an RTR of the ES1, made by ETS and also appears in a European livery, quite a nice model and if I had the money i'd pick it up as my only O gauge piece of stock!

 

http://www.ets-trains.com/detailzbozi.php?IDZbozi=802&PHPSESSID=2aaf0fa931dd9172dfdb5b54301f5af6

 

No idea why but i've got a major soft spot for the ES1, my earliest memory of it is having a side-on view sticker of one in a sticker book of locomotives when I was little sometime in the 90s and been an avid fan since. Maybe one day it will be brought back into operation - i've been told by an NRM member of staff that it would certainly be possible. I suppose it could be done like Harton 9 at the North Tyneside, with a battery in a towed wagon, I don't know if it would be possible to run it at places like Crich, Beamish etc? Well, when I win the lottery...

 

Regarding No 2 apparently there was an attempt to preserve it when withdrawn, i've no idea who by though, would have been nice to have 100% of the class preserved though! With all the replica steam and now diesel locomotive groups appearing, how about a replica of an EF1, or even Raven's express passenger electric? Imagine that on the East Coast mainline!

Edited April 2, 2013 by Tin Turtle

[Mallard60022]

Funny how the ES1s stuck in my memory too even though I lived in 83D and only visited Newcastle once a year for a week, up until 1962 en route to Consett to visit my paternal grandparents and uncle. I saw them whilst taking the loop to Whitley bay where an old army friend of my dad lived and we always went there for a day during our stay.

Maybe it was the bright green amongst an otherwise rather drab area that caught my eye? Who knows, happy days.

Quack

[New Haven Neil]

Mr Turtle, it's Harton 4 at North Tyneside - 9 is at Tanfield.  Photos earlier in the thread to identify

[New Haven Neil]

Looking back, I see I threatened to bore you some more with a shot of Harton 4 in her last green livery...sooo....

 

 

Here's her sister, 3, which never got repainted into green, I think she was scrapped not long after this photo was taken.  The white livery replaced dark blue in the late 60's/early 70's after a local boy was run over and killed.

 

 

Here's 9 on the same day.  Tiny 4 wheel number 2 sneaking in there too.

 

 

...and years later, just before she went to Tanfield, blue livery once again had appeared, but with wasp stripes and yellow bits.  We went with a pal (in the photo) who was a driver at Westoe for a last trundle up the headshunt, but the power was off by then, and she was off to Tanfield the next day.

 

 

the iconic winder tower behind was a landmark in South Shields, a sad day when they blew it up.

[Tin Turtle]

Ah, so it is! Impressive how four of the Harton locos survive - I saw No 9 a couple of days ago and looked rather worse for wear, No 10 is inside at Tanfield and looking good in green, and No 2 is outside at Beamish in black, not great but in better condition than No 9

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Neil

 

Anymore Harton loco photos? I would still like to have ago at modelling the Low Staiths.Sadly as a southerner I never got to see the Harton Electric Railway.

[62613]

I remember No.3 loolking like that. Several times I saw her on the bridges over Westoe Road on my way to or from Shields Tech.

[New Haven Neil]

I've a few more, but mostly not scanned - they're in the loft, and as I'm recovering from hip surgery, it'll be a while before they get scanned I'm afraid!

 

I'll look out what I have done, nothing very good I'm afraid.  It'll have to be tomorrow now.

 

If I was still in Geordieland I think I would be working on 9, she is part of my childhood and teen years.  When you can see these things every day from your bedroom window, they stick with you.

[trisonic]

Anyone have photos of #11 at Ilford where it was known as "Dennis"?

I still remember getting up as we passed the sheds at Ilford to see if it was moving around - I must have been infatuated with it when I was 9 or so...

 

Lovely machines!

 

 

Best, Pete.

Edited April 5, 2013 by trisonic

[New Haven Neil]

For Clive... some odds and ends of Harton photos, awful quality I'm afraid, but they may be of some interest.  My earlier ones are all in the loft as I said, inaccessible to me for several weeks yet.

 

This is number 2, a tiny 4 wheeler, 10 was identical.

 

Number 12, one of the first pair of English Electric/Baguley 500hp Bo-Bo's.  She and sister 11 had higher cabs, and weren't allowed down Erskine Road bank to Crossgates Yard and the staithes.

 

A view from the cab of 12, en route for a tour of the system with Freddie Bond, the electrical engineer in charge, he was very friendy towards young enthusiasts, and could easily be persuaded to go for a run if he wasn;t busy!

 

[New Haven Neil]

Ok, more rubbishy photos....

 

A view into the shed at Westoe, 10, 9 and I think 4, and a diesel interloper.

 

13, one of the trio of later EE/Baguley Bo-Bo's (13 - 15), at Crossgates yard, Billy Dunbar driving, another bloke that was always good for a cab ride.  13 was my personal favourite, together with 9.

 

A view from 13's cab at the staithes, sorry the windows were dirty.....the track layout here was complex, almost a spiral to gain height then the wagons were run down by gravity.  To get up the gradient, (to the right here as we look at it) the curve at the bottom as you emerged from a steep downgrade tunnel had to be taken at what felt like breakneck speed, actually about 25, with the controller full open in parallel.

 

This is another EE emerging from said tunnel, screeching around the ridiculous curve.....

Edited January 20, 2019 by New Haven Neil