Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) I've now purchased one. Asda had three this morning and now have one, so I'm not alone! I haven't really looked at it, more than noting a paint blob on the rear (appears to be poor masking but quite easy to resolve). Sorting out the 'works' is a job for the near future. The list of models in the magazine contains the following still to come:- GWR 'King', LSWR 'T9', HST Power Car, 'Rocket', GWR Castle (next), BR 4MT 2-6-4T, SR 'N', 'Western', LMS Princess. (not the Trix Twin* or Tri-ang ones I trust!) and LNER J39. The MR compound is supposedly going to follow the 'Castle'. *Price almost certainly rules this one out! (It's very similar to the later Tri-ang model anyway). The 'T9', 'N' and 'J39' have to come from recent models so should be OK (assuming assembled Wills kits can be ruled out). EDIT As I said before, the Tri-ang chassis first appeared under their 3F, but is slightly short (2mm) in wheelbase (possibly to help it negotiate 13½" radius curves?). This has appeared under various other locomotives* in the following 60 years, but has seen numerous redesigns and modifications. *Including a so-called 08 diesel shunter, a BR 3MT 2-6-2T a 'Western' mogul, various 0-6-0s etc. The R.59 BR Standard 3MT 2-6-2 Tank Loco didn't use the Chassis from the R.52 "Jinty", just the driving wheels and coupling rods. These wheels were too small in diameter for the 3MT, but the alternative available at the time (1956) was the R.50/ R.53 (and R.54 TC Pacific) Princess Wheels, and these were a bit too big..... The R.857 LMS 2MT 2-6-0 Tender Loco also used the "Jinty" wheels, both the original and later types of wheel being used... By "Western Mogul", you would be referring to the R.358 Transcontinetal Series (TC Series) "Davey Crockett" Wild Western (USA) Mogul I presume, not something from the GWR? using the common 0-6-0 chassis, which had at least 3 versions, there were the R.52 "Jinty" (Various versions, including the various BR liveries, LMS maroon, GNSR "Brown", "2021" black and "Battlespace" Khaki versions.), R.153 Saddle Tank Loco (Electric) (Early and late BR crest versions.) Chassis used "backwards", R.152 Diesel Shunter (Electric) (BR Black, BR Green and BR Blue versions) Chassis used "backwards", R.251 "Deeley" 3f 0-6-0 Tender Locos (BR Lined Black and MR Maroon versions), R.358 Transcontinetal Series (TC Series) "Davey Crockett" Wild Western (USA) 2-6-0 Mogul tender loco, and R.252 LNER J83 0-6-0 Tank Locos. Edited July 24, 2014 by Sarahagain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I'm sure that the Hornby 0-6-0 chassis has used the same wheelbase since Triang days. Like Trigger's broom there is nothing left form the original design, but the dimensions have stayed the same. Gone from centre driven wheel to rear driven wheel then back to middle one. Latest ones do not have a traction tyre or a sprung rear axle and will run sweetly when tamed by a decent DCC decoder. The "Jinty" chassis originally had the centre wheels driven, with the motor filling the cab. To clear the cab, the motor was moved to drive the front wheels of a new chassis design. This had some problems, so a re-design was done and the drive moved back to the centre wheels of another new chassis design. This was the SSPP (Super Strong Pulling Power) design.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 >SNIPPED The wheelbase has stayed the same, even the part numbers for the coupling rods (X49 & X50) remained the same from the 1950s through to the 1980s when they used two piece ones. as Sarahagain will no doubt confirm, same wheelbase on Davy Crocket, Deeley tender loco, J13/52, J83, E2, Thomas... I'll get my coat (wait, am in an anorak already!) >SNIPPED The later locos used the "new" "Jinty" type chassis.... It must be warm in that Anorak.... I'm melting in mine! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) The R.59 BR Standard 3MT 2-6-2 Tank Loco didn't use the Chassis from the R.52 "Jinty", just the driving wheels and coupling rods. These wheels were too small in diameter for the 3MT, but the alternative available at the time (1956) was the R.50/ R.53 (and R.54 TC Pacific) Princess Wheels, and these were a bit too big..... My R59 is a 2721 pannier tank, using the same chassis (service sheet 113) as the R52 Jinty, complete with XO3 motor and "Magnadhesion" (wonderful!) Keith Edited July 24, 2014 by melmerby 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishmail Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I was in Claremorris this morning and had a bit of time to spare so thought I would have a quick look at the magazine section in Supervalu. They did not have the Jinty, but there sitting on the shelf was the Deltic. Did not look a bad example having read previous reports about it, but left it on the shelf as I have already have one waiting to be worked on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenBR Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Dashed back out yesterday (Wednesday) ended up in Sainsbury's they had 3 on the shelves bought the best 2 SWMBO is not happy (still nothing new there) needless to say the next few days are going to be DIY days as ordered hey ho. regards 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The best way to remove the numbers is cotton bud and white spirit it took about half an hour to remove all the numbers and lettering on both sides. the only other way is to repaint the whole locomotive but there is a risk the number will still show through. Prehaps a very fine sanding stick would do the job? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Well, we shall see what comes after the Castle tomorrow.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I weakened, mostly because the first one I picked up in Smith's was a cracker. No overspray or stray glue, no bits missing or leaning cab. Cute. What WM didn't mention were things like the delicately moulded lamp irons, which make a big difference from the crude lumps on some earlier locos and the fine detail on the tank tops, which is excellent. But my subscription copy will go out for swapsies. In addition I got this email today: Dear Customer, We would like to apologise for sending you the same gift twice recently. This was caused by a technical error that has now been fixed. As a good will gesture please retain the gift with our compliments. Please stay assured that you will receive the correct gift with your next delivery. Kind Regards The Publisher So the N gauge locos left over from the last partwork which they're sending out as 'free gifts' ought to be different every time. Hmm. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Hi, 69843 my friend 'Castle tomorrow'? - bit confused by this comment as its not out till two weeks yesterday. Or have I lost some days - if so i'd better get the review finished pretty quickly !. Regards. They seem to put out the info on the next locomotive in the series on a Friday, though can't quite remember if it'll be tomorrow or next week Edited July 24, 2014 by 69843 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Yes I know - I don't think you were fulsome enough about the delicacy of the mouldings! And given that I've been struggling with some etched lamp irons this week (threw the instructions away...) I felt they deserved a little Oscar moment all of their own! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercoMad Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The list of models in the magazine contains the following still to come:- GWR 'King', LSWR 'T9', HST Power Car, 'Rocket', GWR Castle (next), BR 4MT 2-6-4T, SR 'N', 'Western', LMS Princess. (not the Trix Twin* or Tri-ang ones I trust!) and LNER J39. ---------- Thanks, Il Grifone, Apart from the Compound, we must not forget the V2 still mentioned on the back of the card sheet! Or do we assume that might not happen? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 That's very understandable. We used to get Reprimand - verbal, Reprimand - On Record, Suspension (Gardening Leave), Leaving to take advantage of a great new challenge... I used to get 'Head rolls eyes, sighs and gazes at the ceiling until I leave his office...' But - false dawns and all of that - is the JInty a sign that the assemblers are getting a bit better at their job? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The list of models in the magazine contains the following still to come:- GWR 'King', LSWR 'T9', HST Power Car, 'Rocket', GWR Castle (next), BR 4MT 2-6-4T, SR 'N', 'Western', LMS Princess. (not the Trix Twin* or Tri-ang ones I trust!) and LNER J39. ---------- Thanks, Il Grifone, Apart from the Compound, we must not forget the V2 still mentioned on the back of the card sheet! Or do we assume that might not happen? It will be interesting to see where they source the T9 from. If it's Hornby's current offering (and I can't think where else they could get it from) they might find the lawyers queuing up at their door! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) My R59 is a 2721 pannier tank, using the same chassis (service sheet 113) as the R52 Jinty, complete with XO3 motor and "Magnadhesion" (wonderful!) Keith Aha....Your Pannier Tank is R.059, GWR 2721 No. 2744, made 1981-1983. The last R.59 3MT Locos were made in 1972.... For a long time, Rovex re-used the R. Numbers....a whole subject in itself! Actually, R.59 is not so complicated. Only 3 versions up to 1994! R,59 BR Early Crest Lined Black 3MT 2-6-2T 82004 1956-1959 (Last ones with late crest and MkIII Couplings in 1959) R,59 BR Late Crest Lined Green 3MT 2-6-2T 82004 1959-1972 R.059 GWR Green "Great Western" 2721 0-6-0 PT 2744 1981-1983 The 2721 is a nice loco. I have a couple, including the recent "Railroad" version... EDIT: Beaten to it by WM above! I hadn't thought about what chassis was under "James"...it does make sense to use the "New" Jinty chassis under a loco that originated on the"Old "Jinty" Chassis though. Thanks for the information... Edited July 24, 2014 by Sarahagain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 R,59 BR Late Crest Lined Green 3MT 2-6-2T 82004 1959-1972 Of course, with such a long production run, it does mean a large number of variations - double lining, single lining, large crest, smaller crest, Smoke, Synchrosmoke, Magnadhesion added, the very last version with plated wheels........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Of course, with such a long production run, it does mean a large number of variations - double lining, single lining, large crest, smaller crest, Smoke, Synchrosmoke, Magnadhesion added, the very last version with plated wheels........ In Order...(Assuming the change from Double lining to Single lining took place C1963/4 as it did for the R.259 Britannia Locos...) Double Orange Lining. Large Late Crest. Old chassis using "Princess" top-mounted Cylinders. No Smoke Unit. 1959-1961 (Some of these would have been Black, with Red and White Lining.) Double Orange Lining. Large Late Crest. New chassis taking custom cylinder block, top mounting with a hole for the Seuthe Smoke Unit. New "See through" wheels and fluted valve gear and rods. Magnahesion. 1961-1962 (Smoke fitted models were R.59S) Double Orange Lining. Large Late Crest. Modified chassis (Axles in holes through the chassis block, instead of "Drop-in" Wheel and Axle assemblies) taking custom cylinder block, top mounting with a hole for the Seuthe Smoke Unit. "See through" wheels and fluted valve gear and rods. Magnahesion.1962-1963 (Smoke fitted models were R.59S) Single Orange Lining. Large Late Crest. Modified chassis (Axles in holes through the chassis block, instead of "Drop-in" Wheel and Axle assemblies) taking custom cylinder block, top mounting with a hole for the Seuthe Smoke Unit. "See through" wheels and fluted valve gear and rods. Magnahesion.New Pattern Brass Safety Valves. 1963-1967 (Smoke fitted models were R.59S) Single Orange Lining. Smaller Late Crest. New chassis taking custom cylinder block, top mounting still with a hole for the Seuthe Smoke Unit. Fitted with the "Jinty" size Synchrosmoke unit, with an extra long channelled outlet! "See through" wheels and fluted valve gear and rods. Magnahesion.1969-1971 (Smoke fitted models were R.59S) Single Orange Lining. Smaller Late Crest. Chassis taking custom cylinder block, top mounting still with a hole for the Seuthe Smoke Unit. Fitted with the "Jinty" size Synchrosmoke unit, with an extra long channelled outlet! Plated "see through" driving and Pony Truck Wheel Tyres 1972. (Smoke fitted models were R.59S) EDIT: Not exactly Off Topic.....more in advance of the GBL 3MT Tank Loco.....It may be the Bachmann type.....or else....one of these! Well, then again GBL might make a 4MT Tank! Just for luck... A Bachmann Jinty.... Edited July 25, 2014 by Sarahagain 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted July 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 24, 2014 Hi, Sorry Keith but you are wrong. The 2721 (or at least one version of it) was not R59 - it was R059. This was made between 1980 and 1984. Numbered 2744 and carrying full 'Great Western' on the tank sides. Regards What's the difference? Why the "0" I have seen it quoted as both, same with R 52 and R 052 (Jinty) Somebody's been misleading us! Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 What's the difference? Why the "0" I have seen it quoted as both, same with R 52 and R 052 (Jinty) Somebody's been misleading us! Keith Rovex introduced the "leading 0" when they introduced their first computer system. Computers can do strange things to a list of numbers without the leading 0! 4-figure numbers came in in 1996, when Rovex (Hornby) at last decided to stop re-using R. Numbers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMartin90125 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 A few posts ago I said that the situation being suffered by subscription holders seemed to indicate a less than efficient organisation. Cannot help but add that Dick's letter from the publisher seems very much to confirm that view. Regards It's when customer services lie about something that really get's my back up, that and preformatted text replies which have little, if anything, to do with what was enquired about in the first place. Is this why they don't put full (or real) names on enquires, to make it hard to complain about? I had to insist that one of the magazine customer service people have no involvement as she was so bad at her job, sending me details of someone else's enquires about insurance mergers. One just waffled on without addressing the issue and can't even spell his name properly Q: How hard is it to reply to "I haven't received my parcel yet. When am I likely to receive it?" My wife was considering a subscription to the same company's Great Bakes" but changed her mind after seeing the utter crap that flowed from customer services and the irregular and very late delivery of GBL. Back to normality although I do like looking at these silly little emoticon things! The list of models in the magazine contains the following still to come:- GWR 'King', LSWR 'T9', HST Power Car, 'Rocket', GWR Castle (next), BR 4MT 2-6-4T, SR 'N', 'Western', LMS Princess. (not the Trix Twin* or Tri-ang ones I trust!) and LNER J39. ---------- Thanks, Il Grifone, Apart from the Compound, we must not forget the V2 still mentioned on the back of the card sheet! Or do we assume that might not happen? Will we see a Lima King or Hornby 1978 version without the boiler being undercut? Never seen a Lima King in the flesh, so to speak. Margate HST and Western (easier to come by than Lima perhaps), 80s Princess is my reckoning. Have a Hornby Western from Childhood days that I rebuilt from bits. Don't want another one, it was not one of Margate's finest diesels although the Class 25 was rather good and looks more like one than Bachmann's, not refereing to the finer detail and printing but Hornby capture the look better. With a few brands having a go at it over the years and only recently Dapol seem to have got it right (must be made by someone else then!!!) Hi, Re 'Jinty' quality : different factory and assembly team, same as first two and Schools I reckon. Prepare for a rough pull up when a 'Castle's' on the front!. Regards. A big steaming pile of Deltic quality then. As I mentioned earlier, the Castle just doesn't look right at all, obviously not expecting perfection. It's just a pity the way things panned out that Jinty wasn't my final subscription model. Maybe I'll look to Barry for inspiration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Hi, The difference is that R59 is a BR Standard 2-6-2T and R059 is the GWR 2721. As Saraagain has said Rovex restarted the R series numbers and the use of the zero was to prevent any confusion between old models and those with reused numbers - I think this was with particular reference to internal factory paperwork, especially works orders and parts store inventories. Regards Hi. Not quite correct, see above. The factory tended to use a name for internal use, that is the main reason for the naming of the R.54 Transcontinental Series "Pacific" Loco (What a mouthful! ) "Hiawatha". Parts had their own numbers, S.0000 (ST.0000 for TT Parts) Sub-assemblies were X.0000 (XT.0000 for TT Sub-assemblies) Whole Models were R.000 (R.0000 from 1996) (T.000 for TT Guage models) (RT.000 for models which could be used with both TT and OO/HO Gauges. Particularly contollers, and the colour light signal RT.405!) Edited July 25, 2014 by Sarahagain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Our local newsagents in Chatteris had at least 3 Jintys in stock this morning. Good as they are, I resisted, I have no need for one on my NW Norfolk layout. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 At the time of the change to three digit 'R' numbers, Hornby had quite a few models with suffix letters (so, for example, the aforementiooned R59 was, in fact, R59S in it's later incarnations). In the case of the Jinty, BR non-smoke was R52, the version with smoke was R52S and the later LMS red one was R52RS (which as a deluxe version always came with smoke). For the last couple of years of production this became R052 (BR) and R452 (LMS). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) The R.59 BR Standard 3MT 2-6-2 Tank Loco didn't use the Chassis from the R.52 "Jinty", just the driving wheels and coupling rods. These wheels were too small in diameter for the 3MT, but the alternative available at the time (1956) was the R.50/ R.53 (and R.54 TC Pacific) Princess Wheels, and these were a bit too big..... The R.857 LMS 2MT 2-6-0 Tender Loco also used the "Jinty" wheels, both the original and later types of wheel being used... By "Western Mogul", you would be referring to the R.358 Transcontinetal Series (TC Series) "Davey Crockett" Wild Western (USA) Mogul I presume, not something from the GWR? using the common 0-6-0 chassis, which had at least 3 versions, there were the R.52 "Jinty" (Various versions, including the various BR liveries, LMS maroon, GNSR "Brown", "2021" black and "Battlespace" Khaki versions.), R.153 Saddle Tank Loco (Electric) (Early and late BR crest versions.) Chassis used "backwards", R.152 Diesel Shunter (Electric) (BR Black, BR Green and BR Blue versions) Chassis used "backwards", R.251 "Deeley" 3f 0-6-0 Tender Locos (BR Lined Black and MR Maroon versions), R.358 Transcontinetal Series (TC Series) "Davey Crockett" Wild Western (USA) 2-6-0 Mogul tender loco, and R.252 LNER J83 0-6-0 Tank Locos. Agreed the 2-6-2T didn't exactly use the chassis from the 'Jinty', but I covered that under "modifications and likewise 'Davy Crockett'. It would have been better to have modelled an LMS 2-6-2T rather than the BR 3MT - it wouldn't have needed stretching to fit the wheelbase. Unfortunately, Tri-ang didn't do a GWR Mogul but, on second thoughts, seeing the hash they made of the 'Hall', it's probably just as well. EDIT The 2721 uses the later chassis driving on the leading axle, the centre axle driven chassis appeared under the 8750*. Both look wrong as the GWR wheelbase is 7' 3" + 8' 3" not 7' 9" + 8' 3". I intend to make my 2721 into one of the double framed tanks, ignoring that these had 5' 2" wheels, The strangely shaped chimney has to go too! *I detailed up one of these with proper handrails and buffers, repaint, heavy weathering, etc. Then the Mainline model appeared...... (it's in a box somewhere - still with a 'shirt button' one side and a starving lion on the other....). Edited July 24, 2014 by Il Grifone 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Hi, Just a quick thought but it might be usefull for anyone thinking of using a Hornby chassis to motorise a GBL 'Jinty'. This is based on our experience of operating our ' Thomas' layout at exhibitions. My advice would be to avoid the SSPP version of the chassis with the tyre fitted centre wheels and sprung rear axle. We have had many problems with the locos fitted with this chassis, particularly with the locos jumping up and down at the rear due to the springing and a deffinate lack of pulling power plus poor pickup. Our 'Diesel' was so bad that I removed the tyres from the middle wheels - he is marked up for replacement of those middle wheels. Hope that might be of interest to someone. Regards Springing of anything other than the centre axle (which is good practice) is a recipe for failure* as are traction tyres on the centre axle. *This is not to say that it can't be made to work, but setting up becomes a tricky operation.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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