Great British Locomotives

[Il Grifone]

The awnings and chimneys are often missing - they break/fall off and get lost.

(My station building lacks both these parts.)

A replica chimney is available here (under 'oddments').

 

http://www.model-supplies.co.uk/

 

There are also some Hornby* and Dublo** items those most parts are for Dinky and Corgi.

 

* Proper 0 gauge Hornby

** Including the elusive horse for the SD6 horse box (and Dublo Dinky pony trailer), which is almost invariably missing, in a choice of colours. (The doors too, as long as you want them in green.)

 

(No connection - I keep meaning to order bits.......)

 

 

My Tri-ang gatekeeper's hut was missing its chimney, but a piece of cotton bud tube solved that. (Actually better than the original, as it's not solid.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Il Grifone

[Hroth]

...

 

My Tri-ang gatekeeper's hut was missing its chimney, but a piece of cotton bud tube solved that. (Actually better than the original, as it's not solid.

I recently knocked the chimney off my Dapol signalbox and I was going to use some brass tube (which otherwise would have gone to some more important use) to replace it.  Cotton bud tube!

 

Why didn't I think of that? 

[Hroth]

A quartet of GBL "runners"

 

 

Clockwise (from the back)

 

J39, on a Hornby 0-6-0 chassis.  Might get a DCC chip if its lucky!

Mallard, on a Triang-Hornby Flying Scotsman chassis.  Needs its front buffer beam gluing back on and lives on a Super 4 layout.

Western, All GBL (inc cast chassis) on genuine Lima motor and trailing bogies.

Brush Type 4/Class 47.  Fitted to Hornby TTS Class 47 chassis, replacing their Blue Large Logo body.

 

 

(edited to reposition picture)

Edited November 11, 2015 by Hroth

[railroadbill]

The awnings and chimneys are often missing - they break/fall off and get lost.

(My station building lacks both these parts.)

A replica chimney is available here (under 'oddments').

 

http://www.model-supplies.co.uk/

 

There are also some Hornby* and Dublo** items those most parts are for Dinky and Corgi.

 

* Proper 0 gauge Hornby

** Including the elusive horse for the SD6 horse box (and Dublo Dinky pony trailer), which is almost invariably missing, in a choice of colours. (The doors too, as long as you want them in green.)

 

(No connection - I keep meaning to order bits.......)

 

 

My Tri-ang gatekeeper's hut was missing its chimney, but a piece of cotton bud tube solved that. (Actually better than the original, as it's not solid.

Also have the Triang station buildings, think i must have been given them as part of a set some Christmas in the childhood times of the  long ago, since I've got some platforms and fences.  As I was a Hornby Dublo chap, getting a triang station probably seemed a bit strange at the time, but I've seen through the tyranny of branding since then (unless you're collecting stuff of course!).  Actually I think the triang and Hornby platform heights were different? 

 

The cotton bud chimney tube idea is brilliant, thanks for that, have several Metcalf buildings "not quite finished" that need chimney pots, so a quick fix,  me thinks. Have a used bud after using it to take the cab numbers off GBL J39 with meths.

Edited November 12, 2015 by railroadbill

[rowanj]

Photos show progress on the Tony Wright inspired conversion of a Hornby Railroad D49 to a more prototypically correct Shire from a Hunt. For those without the article who fancy a go a this, I've shown a before/after of the loco sides to illustrate the major changes.

 

The tender chassis is white metal and a lot needs removing, to both narrow and shorten it to allow the GBL D11 to fit.(its a force fit). I wouldn't have fancied doing this without a Dremel and even then its a long job and needs care, There is still some white metal visible but I've decided to quit while I'm ahead and resort to black paint. The tender will be BR Black anyway so it should be reasonably concealed.

 

The smokebox door is a NE one on the model and this was replaced by a GN one by BR days. If I can find a replacement in the spares box I'll use that. But otherwise I'll stick with the original.

Edit Thanks Sarahagain. I can't tell my Shire from my Huntsbow. In the meantime I tracked down a smokebox door.TW used a Jamieson washer behind his replacement and though I've had several in the past, they have all vanished. With care, the Dremel cut out the Hornby door leaving the outer ring, into which the new door has been glued.

Edited November 12, 2015 by rowanj

[Il Grifone]

A bit OT, but... (Should really be in Collectibles/vintage)

 

Dublo, Trix and Tri-ang platforms are different heights to match the track bases (2 rail Dublo plastic platforms are lower than the die-cast 3 rail ones as well). I solved this by cutting recesses in the underlay, which also kept them in place without damage.

 

I can remember thinking that Tri-ang's curved platforms were  a good idea. Luckily the local toy shop (remember those?) was out of stock, as the radius would not have matched my Dublo....

 

Glad to be of assistance with the cotton bud idea. One of my pet hates is solid chimneys. I usually drill them out, as a spot of black paint always looks fake. I was disappointed when Dublo copied Tri-ang's idea of a locomotive body fixing screw down the chimney. I couldn't understand the necessity of a screw through the roof of their Diesels either.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Il Grifone

[cypherman]

Hi all,

A couple of thoughts here on the 2 above topics. I believe the placing of the bolts holes in H-D engines was simply for ease of construction. Plus down the chimney hid the bolt from view.And yes I agree putting the bolts on the roof of the diesels was not a good idea

The other thing is I already have a the Hornby Cheshire, So is there enough of a difference right out of the box to make it worth buying the Hornby Hunt.

Edited November 12, 2015 by cypherman

[rowanj]

Re using the Hornby tender-drive Cheshire body it will actually be an easier job as it doesn't have the Lentz valve gear rodding and outside cylinder pipes to remove. On my copy, there are 2 "boxes" on the footplate which just unclip -were they cylinder lubricating access points? - and this leaves a simple filling-in job on the footplate. "Cheshire" 's body will fit on the newer Railroad chassis - it looks like it should just go straight on, but mine would need a very small piece of filling to clear the motor. The other advantage is the brake lever is already present on Cheshire.

I prefer loco -drive all things being equal, and would not have fancied all the metal work on a tender containing the motor. I also suspect the GBL tender body would not have fitted a tender with the tall Hornby motor. But I imagine it could be done by the usual bodge of cutting out the tender top where it fouls the motor top and "over-coaling" the loco tender to conceal it - much as Hornby did on the A3/4 tender-drives.

John

[Il Grifone]

Hi all,

A couple of thoughts here on the 2 above topics. I believe the placing of the bolts holes in H-D engines was simply for ease of construction. Plus down the chimney hid the bolt from view.And yes I agree putting the bolts on the roof of the diesels was not a good idea

omis

 

Undoubtedly so, but a captive nut and screw from underneath (or even a self tap screw) would have not been much more costly. They did it with the wagons and coaches (as did Tri-ang - granted not always as visible screw heads are quite common on Tri-ang products).

[railroadbill]

A bit OT, but... (Should really be in Collectibles/vintage)

 

Dublo, Trix and Tri-ang platforms are different heights to match the track bases (2 rail Dublo plastic platforms are lower than the die-cast 3 rail ones as well). I solved this by cutting recesses in the underlay, which also kept them in place without damage.

 

I can remember thinking that Tri-ang's curved platforms were  a good idea. Luckily the local toy shop (remember those?) was out of stock, as the radius would not have matched my Dublo....

 

Glad to be of assistance with the cotton bud idea. One of my pet hates is solid chimneys. I usually drill them out, as a spot of black paint always looks fake. I was disappointed when Dublo copied Tri-ang's idea of a locomotive body fixing screw down the chimney. I couldn't understand the necessity of a screw through the roof of their Diesels either.

Not too OT as this thread has had a lot about mounting GBL bodies on older chassis, thus giving rise to a lot of info about vintage models. In fact influenced me into digging out my old H-D 3 rail stuff. Having put some track down, cleaned rails and loco wheels, oiled locos etc I found they  ran surprisingly  well.

Thanks for the point about  H-D 3 and 2 rail platforms, I'd forgotten that.

 

Just looked at my 5 H-D locos and found I have:

 

Mallard  open chimneys, body  secured by nut underneath

0-6-2T  open chimney but fixing  screw head on footplate in front of smokebox (also holds on coupling)

Castle   open chimney, screw fixing underneath chassis

8F    fixing Screw down chimney

type 1 diesel   screw on top of body

 

so that  covers most variations, I guess.

 

An advantage of open chimneys on cast metal bodies, back in the day,  was that you could prop a bit of smouldering joss stick in it to give the effect of smoke. This was in the pre hippy era of course.

B)

 

Off to look at collectible/vintage, then.

And some buildings  now have ex-cotton bud chimney pots...

Edited November 12, 2015 by railroadbill

[rowanj]

Here is a pic of a very shiny D49 made worse by the overhead light. However I'm happy that, after lining, satin varnish and light weathering should tone things down, As always photos show things needing adjustment which the eye misses - the draincocks and upper lamp bracket need straightening for a start - but we're getting there.

[cypherman]

looking good,....Will look forwards to seeing he finished item

[cypherman]

Ah well,

GBL has ended and now is the time to take stock of what we will be doing in the future.

I will continue to help my friend in building the garden railway as we have nearly finished the latest extention And i will press on with updating my rather old collection of engines to a more modern appearance. Anyway here a couple of pictures of what we have been upto in the garden railway dept.I know that there are more than a couple, But it is a wet and dismal Saturday afternoon and there is not a lot else going on......

A new extention for the station was built and this was attached by a lifting bridge at one end on a causeway to allow for a continous curcuit and for us to get in and out of the railways center area.. One of the nice things about this new station is that the run round comes off a turntable and not a point in typical narrowguage style.

We even got to include a small canal basin which we had worried over not having enough room for it. So we now have 2 ternii and a canal basin at one and a fishing/ferry prot at the other ,Lots of scoep for operations as we have a railway wagon roll on/roll off ferry at the main port.

There is still some work to be done around the new dock ,but as the weather has turned unpleasant it may have to be left till next year.One of the problems of outdoor railways.......LOL

Edited November 14, 2015 by cypherman

[Il Grifone]

Not too OT as this thread has had a lot about mounting GBL bodies on older chassis, thus giving rise to a lot of info about vintage models. In fact influenced me into digging out my old H-D 3 rail stuff. Having put some track down, cleaned rails and loco wheels, oiled locos etc I found they  ran surprisingly  well.

Thanks for the point about  H-D 3 and 2 rail platforms, I'd forgotten that.

 

Just looked at my 5 H-D locos and found I have:

 

Mallard  open chimneys, body  secured by nut underneath

0-6-2T  open chimney but fixing  screw head on footplate in front of smokebox (also holds on coupling)

Castle   open chimney, screw fixing underneath chassis

8F    fixing Screw down chimney

type 1 diesel   screw on top of body

 

so that  covers most variations, I guess.

 

An advantage of open chimneys on cast metal bodies, back in the day,  was that you could prop a bit of smouldering joss stick in it to give the effect of smoke. This was in the pre hippy era of course.

B)

 

Off to look at collectible/vintage, then.

And some buildings  now have ex-cotton bud chimney pots...

 

The Duchesses and Cities also have open chimneys, though Duchesses have a square headed bolt (now a valuable collector's item! or take a file to a brass screw...*) in front of the smokebox. The West Countries and diesel shunters also have obvious screws. Just don't try the joss stick idea with Tri-ang.

These things go on for ever, I doubt the same will be said about today's models in fifty years time.

 

* You could use a Meccano screw, but more work would be needed as they are steel. Note the body fixing screws are Meccano parts and replacements cost much less if bought as such.

[Northroader]

That garden railway looks really good, cypherman, with a pile of work going into great detail, but, looking out of my window right now at the weather, the scene will be very different from your great pictures! That was Summer, that was.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Northroader

[46256]

What summer!

[46256]

Love garden railways....if I was going to have one though....6 winning lottery numbers......and a different spouse permitting.......dearest please be careful how you hold that latest creation....ok nothing that can't be fixed by epoxy....where was I ..garden railways...in my case got to be O gauge. As an eleven year old in my village... The railway part of which is now modelled in 4 MM. In my loft.....anyway went up this private driveway connecting some garages to their houses. I was astounded to see a 94xx pannier and goods train depart the rear of a shed there...over a trestle bridge...travel around a garage perimeter .the other side of the driveway...back mover another removable bridge section and back into the garden of the said house...in the garden was a model of Hatton station. I stood and watched a fine array of GWR locos and stock complement a fine sunny afternoon back in 1969. I was spotted by the railway and therefore property owners, and rather than being told to .....go away. They instead noticed my knowledge of the loco type....and interest ...no even then obsession with railways. There followed one of those idyllic periods in life..meeting owners of the house ...their two sons...both of whom were ....the eldest was some way older..his younger brother...late teens to my early. In any event treated with considerable kindness and support for my interest in their models.In time ...we all.know...anyway some years later visiting my old village to visit my now widowed...beloved mum..went up the driveway again....track and model gone.

 

In recent times my model based on my home village station was featured in BRM...I was contacted some weeks later by the asst editor...wold I mind receiving correspondence from someone who had lived in my village...bout had since emigrated to Vancouver Canada. I agreed...it turned out to be the younger brother of the family. In addition he had created the same model in 7 MM in Vancouver!,...He and his wife visited my home on a visit to the uk...he was most complimentary about my model.....perhaps the best you can hope for....I stood there...I saw that from that wall......its just like being there......sorry for this indulgence, but he and his mum dad, and older brother cannot appreciate the debt I have to them for my love of railways.....even if their passion was GWR whilst living like me nest to a fantastic midland railway mainline....

[railroadbill]

The Duchesses and Cities also have open chimneys, though Duchesses have a square headed bolt (now a valuable collector's item! or take a file to a brass screw...*) in front of the smokebox. The West Countries and diesel shunters also have obvious screws. Just don't try the joss stick idea with Tri-ang.

These things go on for ever, I doubt the same will be said about today's models in fifty years time.

 

* You could use a Meccano screw, but more work would be needed as they are steel. Note the body fixing screws are Meccano parts and replacements cost much less if bought as such.

Never had a city or duchess, sadly. Perhaps I should look for one. Pity there wasn't a GBL one, but I did get the GBL princess issue. Interesting, and logical that H-D used meccano screws. Better system than those tiny little screws that hold Bachmann diesel bodies on and have a habit of getting lost.   :-)

[Il Grifone]

Dublo Duchesses are quite common and reasonably priced*, the Cities less so, especially 3 rail ones (Liverpool) or the Wrenn versions (which are all 2 rail anyway). I find they tend to be faster than the A4s despite having basically the same mechanism - perhaps it's just mine.

 

* One for running - mint boxed examples tend to be expensive. Check the front end as the buffer beam tends to droop (from falling on the floor probably) and the steps are often  broken. The tender may suffer from rust and/or dents being tinplate and the plastic 'coal' has invariably shrunk/warped. The City tenders are plastic on a die-cast underframe (the same as used on the 8F).

 

My plan is to fit the GBL 'Coronation' body* on a Dublo chassis. So far It has got as far as taking the GBL model to pieces......

 

* I'll have to rename and renumber her as she should be blue or fitted with a headlamp for touring the States, which would also require her train and I have too many unfinished projects already! (I did consider repainting some Dublo coaches, but thought better of it!)

Edited November 15, 2015 by Il Grifone

[cypherman]

Hi folks,

I have both the H-D Duchess of Atholl (converted to 2 rail) and the Wrenn City of Stoke on Trent. For some reason the H-D engine is a much smoother runner. I also have the H-D Silver Link repainted and renamed Wild Swan(again converted to 2 rail). I also have 2 Wrenn A4's and again the H-D engine is the better runner. Could be that they are just better run in with age.I was going to fit the GBL A4 with a Hornby A3 chassis as has been mentioned earlier by Hroth, But on checking my engine stable I found i already have 8 A4's. So have put that on hold for the moment. No use being too greedy.

I must admit the worst H-D engine I have for running is the Bristol Castle both before and after it has been converted to 2 rail(which has now been repainted and named Cardiff Castle). And still is a poor runner. i have never had a Wrenn castle so I cannot compare the 2 to see if the performance is the same.

Edited November 15, 2015 by cypherman

[rowanj]

One very scruffy D49/1  _Hornby Railroad Hunt with a GBL D11 tender body. I based the colour on a photo of 62730 Berkshire in Darlington just after withdrawal in 1958. If anything, at that stage it was even scruffier. Just waiting nameplates and smokebox door plate.

[railroadbill]

Hi Il Grifone and Cypherman,

I missed out getting the streamlined GBL Coronation. On reflection that would have looked good motorised. My GBL A4 is on a Hornby tender drive A4 chassis, so far.

Because  HD 3 rail kept coming up on this thread I unpacked the locos, controller and a length of track and gave them a run. I was surprised how well they ran, really, with clean track and rails. Except for Bristol Castle which doesnt run at all. Have to take that one down to see why.

I've mused about converting one or two to 2 rail and running them on the main layout, but thinking about it is  as far as I've got!  Perhaps because they are so old I should leave them as part of a 3 rail system. Being heavy locos probably helps running.

 

I took the tender body off my 3R 8F (held on with a meccano screw) and it's actually diecast, but it's the first release, LT25, pre ringfield.

 

Back when HD was still being made, there was a shop that converted triang locos to 3 rail, think there was a pannier, and railcar, possibly an electric unit? So I have wondered about using GBL bodies on HD chassis, like David, or indeed fitting 3 rail pickups to a 2 rail chassis etc.  I've got a couple of HD style pickups off ebay, to fit to a Lima chassis for the Western diesel. Unfortunately, I found my old Lima chassis needed a broken and missing  edge replacing, which I've still to do. I'll get back to that one day.

 

 

Bill

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I have both the H-D Duchess of Atholl (converted to 2 rail) and the Wrenn City of Stoke on Trent. For some reason the H-D engine is a much smoother runner. I also have the H-D Silver Link repainted and renamed Wild Swan(again converted to 2 rail). I also have 2 Wrenn A4's and again the H-D engine is the better runner. Could be that they are just better run in with age...

 There is a reason, but that isn't it. H-D's mechanical parts machining was not to a high degree of precision, sadly very typical of most contemporary British light goods manufacturing at the time. This was overcome  - so far as the end product was concerned - by the traditional approach of matching for good fit at assembly from the many, many, well filled parts bins. None of this 'just in time' manufacturing technique, H-D had a huge parts inventory, a contributory factor to their business failure with piles of cash spent on inventory that wouldn't find a place in sold product for a year or three.

 

That parts inventory came into the hands of Wrenn, and was used in production - at a reduced rate compared to H-D - for years to come. The parts were assembled, but the only matching concern in assembly was failure: either 'no go' or 'not functional'. If the parts fitted and the resulting mechanism ran, job done. Same designs and parts, but bung in a few slack and tight fits and suddenly it doesn't run as sweetly as the same mechanism assembled from carefully matched components.

[Il Grifone]

Hi folks,

I have both the H-D Duchess of Atholl (converted to 2 rail) and the Wrenn City of Stoke on Trent. For some reason the H-D engine is a much smoother runner. I also have the H-D Silver Link repainted and renamed Wild Swan(again converted to 2 rail). I also have 2 Wrenn A4's and again the H-D engine is the better runner. Could be that they are just better run in with age.I was going to fit the GBL A4 with a Hornby A3 chassis as has been mentioned earlier by Hroth, But on checking my engine stable I found i already have 8 A4's. So have put that on hold for the moment. No use being too greedy.

I must admit the worst H-D engine I have for running is the Bristol Castle both before and after it has been converted to 2 rail(which has now been repainted and named Cardiff Castle). And still is a poor runner. i have never had a Wrenn castle so I cannot compare the 2 to see if the performance is the same.

 

Both mine run well, though they are not as fast as the vertical motor locos. The Castle shares a motor with the 8F (and the R1 tank), so they should run equally well apart the speed due to different gear ratios and wheel size. Wrenn Castles and 8Fs all have the ringfield motor so can't really be compared. Check for crud partially seizing the axles and gears and around the brushes and commutator. The insulated sleeve on the brush spring sometimes doesn't make good contact with the brush. One of mine was intermittently shorting to the spring.

 

The Castle and 8F tender bodies are die-cast. I assume this is so that the weight keeps the pickups in contact with the track, though it doesn't help haulage. They changed to plastic for the Cities.

 

The two fastest Dublo locos I have are also two of the oldest - a horseshoe magnet Atholl* and a SR livery N2. Both still have the original magnets. The last owner of the Atholl had started repainting and detailing her and fitted scale size drivers. These have been replaced with proper Dublo wheels, but she is still faster than any of the others. I intend to rename her Duchess of Abercorn. (When I get around to it....... I did print out some names, but they look rather rubbish.)

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Hi Il Grifone and Cypherman,

I missed out getting the streamlined GBL Coronation. On reflection that would have looked good motorised. My GBL A4 is on a Hornby tender drive A4 chassis, so far.

Because  HD 3 rail kept coming up on this thread I unpacked the locos, controller and a length of track and gave them a run. I was surprised how well they ran, really, with clean track and rails. Except for Bristol Castle which doesnt run at all. Have to take that one down to see why.

I've mused about converting one or two to 2 rail and running them on the main layout, but thinking about it is  as far as I've got!  Perhaps because they are so old I should leave them as part of a 3 rail system. Being heavy locos probably helps running.

 

I took the tender body off my 3R 8F (held on with a meccano screw) and it's actually diecast, but it's the first release, LT25, pre ringfield.

 

Back when HD was still being made, there was a shop that converted triang locos to 3 rail, think there was a pannier, and railcar, possibly an electric unit? So I have wondered about using GBL bodies on HD chassis, like David, or indeed fitting 3 rail pickups to a 2 rail chassis etc.  I've got a couple of HD style pickups off ebay, to fit to a Lima chassis for the Western diesel. Unfortunately, I found my old Lima chassis needed a broken and missing  edge replacing, which I've still to do. I'll get back to that one day.

 

 

Bill

 

The 8f tender bodies were indeed die-cast, as are the Wrenn 8f tender bodies. The same cast chassis was used for the plastic moulded bodies on the later HD "Cities".

 

Hornby made versions of the LNER 8-wheel tender from "Flying Scotsman" for Wrenn to use with the A4 locos, instead of the HD tin-plate type. Wrenn did not make much in tin-plate at all....

 

Hattons used to advertise such converted locos. The Pannier Tank was the Gaiety / Castle Arts body, mounted on a Tri-ang 2-Rail chassis, or a Hornby Dublo R1 chassis (2 Rail). Possibly they also did a 3-rail conversion?

 

The advert advised that genuine Hornby Dublo 3-rail piick-up parts in their conversions of Tri-ang locos...possibly including the Tri-ang S.R. EMU.