RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted March 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2015 Even heavy duty security type gates across the road is not the answer as someone is bound to crash their car into the gates and still get injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 If you try to find a way to protect people from their own idiocy, the determined idiot will find a way past that protection or just find a new area to endanger themselves in. Survival of the fittest and all that, as a species we now seem to trying to protect and help the mentally unfittest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Yes over here you are waiting very short time at a level crossing as most trains are fairly short and most cases fast as well so you are soon off again. In the USA most of the trains are very long and a lot slower so will take a very long time to clear the level crossing so the drivers try to out run the train than wait for the train to clear. Nail + head = Hit!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2015 Even heavy duty security type gates across the road is not the answer as someone is bound to crash their car into the gates and still get injured. That is one reason why barrier protected crossings are statistically considerably safer than traditional gated crossings - the latter have long had a history of motorists colliding with the gates causing far higher overall casualty figures (not necessarily fatalities before anyone confuses the two) than was the case at a similar number of automatic barrier protected crossings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted March 19, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2015 There is more info on the crash here. The car was carrying 4 school students; those that died were 16 and 19 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted March 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Quite how you can "beat the train" at any speed on this crossing is beyond me. If you look at the Google maps you can see the road does a 90 degree through the crossing which IMHO can't be taken at any speed and the train would have been visible when there was still time to stand on the brakes. It would also be impossible not to see the flashing lights as there are two sets. Overhead: http://goo.gl/maps/HwRCw From road level: http://goo.gl/maps/2EJex Keith Edited March 19, 2015 by melmerby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) That is one reason why barrier protected crossings are statistically considerably safer than traditional gated crossings - the latter have long had a history of motorists colliding with the gates causing far higher overall casualty figures (not necessarily fatalities before anyone confuses the two) than was the case at a similar number of automatic barrier protected crossings. Generally speaking Mike you're right of course, but it certainly doesn't stop the odd loon trying to get through no matter what... a few years back a local woman taking her two little 'uns to school deliberately ploughed through both barriers at Bardon Hill crossing, completely destroying them in the process, she only stopped on the other side because the damage to her car made it undrivable! The barriers were fairly new at the time, having been 'attacked' by another local chump shortly before. (Needless to say both of them were done good and proper for their little bouts of vandalism). Edited March 19, 2015 by Rugd1022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) There is more info on the crash here. The car was carrying 4 school students; those that died were 16 and 19 years old. This is a surprising read, if I have read it correctly, apparently the train was carrying 400,000 tons on 100 railcars. Wow! That is 4,000 tons on each car! A cub reporter may make an error like that but it must have got past a sub editor or editor as well. I wonder where they got those figures and how "official" they are. Edited March 19, 2015 by Ohmisterporter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 This is a surprising read, if I have read it correctly, apparently the train was carrying 400,000 tons on 100 railcars. Wow! That is 4,000 tons on each car! A cub reporter may make an error like that but it must have got past a sub editor or editor as well. I wonder where they got those figures and how "official" they are. Probably been watching "Unstoppable" as well.... didn't they quote something like a million tons in that film??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) You both have just found the car driver guilty. There may have been other reasons for driving on to the crossing (eg brake failure etc). The only thing clear from the video is that the crossing was working. Nonsense. I said “charge” him. Then a Court of Law would decide. Sorry just read Kenton’s post #626 where he made the same point re: Charging vs Guilt. Thing is if the brakes were faulty it is still the drivers responsibility. Best, Pete. Edited March 19, 2015 by trisonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Nail + head = Hit!!! Surprised at you Jordan. They are not significantly slower than UK freight trains with a mainline speed of 70 mph (except crude oil shipments which are currently limited to 40 mph nationwide, I think). We’ve all been watching too many “shortlines” vids - which are slow.... Best, Pete. Edited March 19, 2015 by trisonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 That's an interesting similie Pete. Here's a video from my road trip in 2012 that sort of illustrates that. It's on the UP (Ex C&NW) main line somewhere in Iowa with an eastbound stack train from the west coast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll_7IPi8i4c It was certainly getting close to 70. Jamie Jamie with something so freaking big it is very difficult to figure out speed. This following video is interesting because the vehicle is tracking the train alongside, however I still think closer to 70 mph is more likely than 80mph... I’ve done the same on the BNSF southern Transcon in Arizona where it runs alongside I40 between Flagstaff and the border with New Mexico but didn’t film it, of course. Best, Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted March 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Jamie with something so freaking big it is very difficult to figure out speed. This following video is interesting because the vehicle is tracking the train alongside, however I still think closer to 70 mph is more likely than 80mph... I’ve done the same on the BNSF southern Transcon in Arizona where it runs alongside I40 between Flagstaff and the border with New Mexico but didn’t film it, of course. Best, Pete. Thanks for that Pete. Brings back a lot of good memories. My speed estimate for the K line train isn't at all scientific though I might be able to work it out by timing the number of cars that pass in a given time. It certainly tore through that little town. Just further along we stopped at another town and there was a rather poignant memorial of faded flowers tied to the crossing barrier poles. No doubt there are many others elsewehere in the US. Not to take away from the serious nature of this thread but does anyone remember the Hamlet cigar adverts. One of them featured a guy who pulled up at a crossing just as the barriers came down. Cue for Air on a G string and the Hamlet, while the endless train rolled past. Jamie Edited March 19, 2015 by jamie92208 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 This video shows a fast freight at Estrella - but is also significant in showing the sheer size and power. You really do not want to get in front of one of these unless you want to suffer a really bad day... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3KznlGKbxA&spfreload=10 Best, Pete. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I wonder how the driverless cars now being tested would deal with this situation. Will they be able to detect a level crossing in this sort of situation. Bottom line is they will need to or they will not be fit for purpose. I think this is a scenario where, assuming the technology works correctly, large safety benefits should occur when they get mandated... They already work with traffic lights. They probably already work with flashing red lights for railway crossings, though this programming would need to be tailored to local conditions. Short of all that, talking about a time with ubiquitous driverless cars, it would be very easy for the railway crossing to transmit an RF 'danger signal' that will stop all cars at the crossing as soon as the track circuits detect a train approaching. This would be much safer than relying on humans, including (sadly in the Kentucky case) a car full of high-school students. Radar might pick up the approaching train, audible sensors "ears" listen for the klaxon/bells, visual sensors "eyes" will see the flashing lights.The situation with completely unguarded, un-signalled crossings with nothing but a crossbuck is one that would need a solution for driverless cars. It's not impossible and could use Kenton's suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Sorry Colin have to disagree. If I had brake failure I think I would try to swerve away from the crossing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Although investigation may show something different, at face value the kentucky crash does appear rather likely to be a case of a young driver, with mates in the car, doing something stupid and failing to get away with it. Tragic, certainly, but not uncommon and not looking likely to become less common any time soon . As for the train driver (and other witnesses, most likely) suffering psychological trauma, they have all my sympathies. Even as a relatively disinterested observer, I suspect those videos will be weaving themselves into my nightmares for some time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Surprised at you Jordan. They are not significantly slower than UK freight trains with a mainline speed of 70 mph (except crude oil shipments which are currently limited to 40 mph nationwide, I think). We’ve all been watching too many “shortlines” vids - which are slow.... Best, Pete. Sorry Pete. "Nail/head/hit" was with reference to car drivers' eagerness to beat the train rather than wait at the crossing. It's a similar mentality to the "must get in front of the truck regardless" mentality car drivers have here. I love your analogy of Southend Pier at 70mph - sounds like something that would've been in The Goon Show..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.hill64 Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 I’ve done the same on the BNSF southern Transcon in Arizona where it runs alongside I40 between Flagstaff and the border with New Mexico but didn’t film it, of course. I drove that route last year on a San Francisco to New York drive (never again - it's boring in the middle). We spent an hour at 77mph running parallel to a train: never overtook it in that time. It was long - and fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 This is a surprising read, if I have read it correctly, apparently the train was carrying 400,000 tons on 100 railcars. Wow! That is 4,000 tons on each car! A cub reporter may make an error like that but it must have got past a sub editor or editor as well. I wonder where they got those figures and how "official" they are. It may be the reporter's got carried away with the zero's, (and yep, maybe a little too influenced by Unstoppable's "Million tons" nonsense - well it's not a film about maths is it... ) 4000 would be plausible if more than half were empties. Train weights can get well into 5 figures with block trains with every car loaded, but that train isn't a block train so will have a mix of loads and empties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted March 20, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2015 Sorry Colin have to disagree. If I had brake failure I think I would try to swerve away from the crossing And knock down the photographer!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gary H Posted March 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2015 This video shows a fast freight at Estrella - but is also significant in showing the sheer size and power. You really do not want to get in front of one of these unless you want to suffer a really bad day... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3KznlGKbxA&spfreload=10 Best, Pete. DPU's on the back of that last train sounded particularly nice I have to say! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gary H Posted March 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2015 It's a similar mentality to the "must get in front of the truck regardless" mentality car drivers have here. Oh yes, tell me about it!! Story of my bloody life!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 As for the train driver (and other witnesses, most likely) suffering psychological trauma, they have all my sympathies. Even as a relatively disinterested observer, I suspect those videos will be weaving themselves into my nightmares for some time to come. When I was commuting on the GO Train, one of the drivers I talked to had just come back after about 4 months off due to the psychological effects of a level crossing fatality. It can be very hard on the train crew, especially if they see it coming and know there is nothing they can do about it. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_Hatter Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 DPU's on the back of that last train sounded particularly nice I have to say! If that had been a level crossing where it was filmed, it would have taken approx 8 minuets for the train to clear so it to be open for road traffic again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now