Level crossing stupidity...

[Guest]

I certainly don't think additional signs are any kind of answer, certainly as long as some folk aren't capable of acting on the basic common-sense ones that are already in place. I'm convinced that with too many signs, many drivers will just mentally blank them all out (see below). Changing human nature probably is the ideal solution but as that's not going to work either, why not just accept that accidents and the occasional tragedy will continue to happen? Guarantees the longevity of this thread, at least...

 

 

 

[jwealleans]

I know that top one... I had a mate used to live in Bridge. Been up there many a time.

 

And yes, it is all a bit offputting, all that signage in a very short space of road.

[Titan]

There are ways and means....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4YkzeSW6v8

[PhilJ W]

I certainly don't think additional signs are any kind of answer, certainly as long as some folk aren't capable of acting on the basic common-sense ones that are already in place. I'm convinced that with too many signs, many drivers will just mentally blank them all out (see below). Changing human nature probably is the ideal solution but as that's not going to work either, why not just accept that accidents and the occasional tragedy will continue to happen? Guarantees the longevity of this thread, at least...

 

01.jpg

 

02.jpg

I know of some stretches of roads that are similar, even worse some of the signs are so placed that they obscure others.

[avonside1563]

I found that Southampton clip on YouTube last night. Incredible footage but one thing that really amazed me was the fact that the bus passengers just sat there! In seats right in the trains path. Nobody, driver included, seemed to think that getting off that bus pronto might just have been a good idea.

I read, when this was first posted on a forum, that the railwaymen in Southampton are used to this crossing being blocked like it was in the video and approach it with caution accordingly. However, that doesn't excuse or condone the road users from incorrect and dangerous use of a box junction.

[avonside1563]

I was having a discussion about road driving standards with SWMBO yesterday and we reached the conclusion that some form of regular re-test wouldn't be out of order. After all, people in many safety critical roles are expected to renew/refresh their competence regularly and what is more safety critical than being given a licence to drive a road vehicle?

[BoD]

In that Southampton clip (or other similar circumstances) what is the correct procedure for the train driver?

Do they just proceed as if nothing has happened or do they have to make some sort of stop/report later?

[SHMD]

Is it actually a criminal offence to stop on a level crossing?

Or is it even a civil offence?

A By Law perhaps?

If not - why not?

 

Speed cameras are hated by (a lot) of motorists and there are many (amusing) reasons given as to why they hate them so.

Car speeds have come down - especially - around where the cameras are installed.

They do enforce what they are designed to do - even if only locally AND THAT is all a Level Crossing Camera needs to do. Enforce the law locally around the Level Crossing.

 

A few envelopes through the post WILL modify peoples behaviour far quicker than any amount of education/signage.

(Some people look for cameras far more than they look for hazards!)

 

 

Kev.

(Should I already know the answer to the first 3 questions? I suppose so but as I never enter a crossing that does not have a clear exit (escape) route, it does not matter.)

 

[The Stationmaster]

In that Southampton clip (or other similar circumstances) what is the correct procedure for the train driver?

Do they just proceed as if nothing has happened or do they have to make some sort of stop/report later?

I would presume - sorry, that's not very clever so I have checked and confirmed that both Canute Road and Chapel Road crossings are AOC(L) so if the white (train) Driver's light is illuminated that means the train can quite legitimately proceed over the crossing.  Line speeds will inevitably be low so in extremis a Driver could no doubt stop the train if they saw something in breach of the law such as that 'bus; but that does not make it right.  The 'bus Driver broke the law - plain and simple and in my view should have been prosecuted, pour encourager les autres if for no other reason.

 

The simple, and very widespread, fact is that unless traffic laws are enforced motorists will continue to ignore them.  It's noticeable in out part of the country that when the police are out with their mobile unit catching those who speed the observance of speed limits becomes far better (although possibly not for too long?).  Equally round here illegal parking is commonplace and little or nothing is done to tackle it - so it simply carries on.

 

PS Stopping on a level crossing is a criminal offence and BTP say it is one for which they will prosecute.

Edited May 27, 2015 by The Stationmaster

[ejstubbs]

Until the crossing is eliminated, people will try to get through before the train. The DESIGN cannot prevent it, as a road vehicle isn't easily stopped, due to its mass & inertia

 

The type of rising metal barrier shown in these clips seems to stop a fair proportion of road vehicles quite well:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPt7bASfsGs

 

Looks like a similar idea to the rising bollards that are used to protect some bus only roads in some UK towns.

[Trevellan]

I was having a discussion about road driving standards with SWMBO yesterday and we reached the conclusion that some form of regular re-test wouldn't be out of order. After all, people in many safety critical roles are expected to renew/refresh their competence regularly and what is more safety critical than being given a licence to drive a road vehicle?

 

Another angle is that when traffic increases on any form of public transport, standards of regulation tend to rise in proportion. If anything, private road transport has gone the opposite way. Similarly, accidents and serious incidents in the aviation, maritime and rail sectors are investigated by AAIB, MAIB and RAIB so that lessons can be learned. When it comes to private motoring, there seems to be an assumption that holding and using a driving licence is an inalienable birthright, rather than a privilege whgich carries responsibilities.

[BoD]

I would presume - sorry, that's not very clever so I have checked and confirmed that both Canute Road and Chapel Road crossings are AOC(L) so if the white (train) Driver's light is illuminated that means the train can quite legitimately proceed over the crossing.  

 

Thanks Mike, but I was thinking more what would happen after the incident.

It would appear that the driver just continued after the bus had moved on.

Did this driver just continue his journey and say nothing or would he have to report it at some point?

[SHMD]

PS Stopping on a level crossing is a criminal offence and BTP say it is one for which they will prosecute.

 

I did not accurately describe by what I meant "Is it actually a criminal offence to stop on a level crossing?"

 

Bringing the vehicle to a halt and getting out/taking photos/making a phone call/etc seams to be far more clear cut than if entering a crossing and finding that the car in front is preventing you from clearing the crossing.

 

Is it a criminal offence if your wheels stop rotating whilst you are on the crossing?

(Sorry to be pedantic.)

 

Kev.

(Even on London's Red Routes you are not penalised if the car stops in front of you!)

[Welly]

Will self-driving cars be safer on level crossings? Will they be able to recognise a level crossing, of any type, in front of them and act accordingly?

[newbryford]

I did not accurately describe by what I meant "Is it actually a criminal offence to stop on a level crossing?"

 

Bringing the vehicle to a halt and getting out/taking photos/making a phone call/etc seams to be far more clear cut than if entering a crossing and finding that the car in front is preventing you from clearing the crossing.

 

Is it a criminal offence if your wheels stop rotating whilst you are on the crossing?

(Sorry to be pedantic.)

 

Kev.

(Even on London's Red Routes you are not penalised if the car stops in front of you!)

 

My bold.

 

In simple terms. You shouldn't enter the crossing unless your exit is clear. Following a car in and finding that the guy in front stops, meaning you stop on the crossing, is illegal. Following the vehicle in front too closely - simples.

I would say that if your wheels stop rotating on a crossing, then yes - it's a penalty.

 

Red routes mean no stopping at the roadside. Basically no waiting/loading/unloading/boarding/alighting. Blue badges and taxi/private hire have certain exemptions. Bus stops are usually marked.

 

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited May 27, 2015 by newbryford

[Ozexpatriate]

Will self-driving cars be safer on level crossings?

Yes.

Will they be able to recognise a level crossing, of any type, in front of them and act accordingly?

Yes, otherwise they are non-functional. They handle traffic lights just fine - railway crossing lamps are no different.

 

Once we submit to the rise of the machines and have self-driving cars, I predict the rate of level crossing incursions by road vehicles will drop dramatically.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Ozexpatriate

[Ozexpatriate]

The type of rising metal barrier shown in these clips seems to stop a fair proportion of road vehicles quite well:

They can be circumvented too.

 

See the end of the video (at 50s) here:

There are ways and means....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4YkzeSW6v8

Edited May 27, 2015 by Ozexpatriate

[duncan]

the car is escaping from the crossing, it could not have gone the other way into the crossing

 

edit, I was also thinking of the car in post 855, but didn't know how to attach

Edited May 28, 2015 by duncan

[melmerby]

Yes.

Yes, otherwise they are non-functional. They handle traffic lights just fine - railway crossing lamps are no different.

 

Once we submit to the rise of the machines and have self-driving cars, I predict the rate of level crossing incursions by road vehicles will drop dramatically.

In the year 2525 etc.

 

Keith

[bodmin16]

 

Have you seen this one then?

[kevinlms]

There are ways and means....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4YkzeSW6v8

And as we have seen previously, such 'preventative measures' can still be bypassed, with groups of youths standing on it, encouraging people to drive through, then stopping off while half way across.!

[Ozexpatriate]

In the year 2525 etc.

Regulatory issues aside it could be quite a bit earlier than that!

[Guest]

I'm an "average" driver. No "advanced" motoring qualifications... I don't drive for a living... I drive an average annual mileage. Am I safe? I think so, but of course I'm not perfect (who is?)... That said, the day I climb into a "driverless" car, Hell will have frozen over and Satan will be sucking on a Strawberry Cornetto. No thanks...

[Jonboy]

 

 

Kev.

(Even on London's Red Routes you are not penalised if the car stops in front of you!)

 

No but try it on a London yellow box junction as our company van driver found out a few years back....

Edited May 28, 2015 by Jonboy

[Neil]

Could I ask those in the know how often a train crosses the Southampton level crossing?

 

I might be minded to take a more charitable view of the actions of the bus driver. I doubt that many drivers set out thinking that 'today I'm going to drive in a risky manner which may endanger me and my passengers'. In the normal course of events driving onto a yellow box junction and then being stuck there causes inconvenience to others and embarrassment to oneself but little in the way of peril. I would guess that many/most of us don't cross into one only when there's a clear space for our vehicle at the far side but will proceed or not depending on how the traffic ahead seems to be flowing. Most times this works fine but there will be the odd occasion when one becomes becalmed in the middle; annoying but in the grand scheme of things no harm done. From streetview the crossing in question lacks some of the visual clues that it's a railway crossing, is gated across the railway, which looks itself to be a bit overgrown. I would guess that it won't be uncommon to see traffic straddling that junction.