Level crossing stupidity...

[talisman56]

Did anyone notice the police car bottom left? It turned right into a side turning, reversed out again and then departed lights flashing bottom right.

 

Wouldn't it have been quicker to park up and walk across the board crossing? Or had he had his full share of Krispy Kreme that day?

[phil-b259]

More stupidity this evening - a lorry didn't want to wait at the red wig wags so tried to cross and ripped off BOTH facing barriers at Billingshurst. Not how Barnham + Three Bridges S&T wanted to spend the evening (trying to repair the damage that is)

Edited February 1, 2018 by phil-b259

[4630]

More stupidity this evening - a lorry didn't want to wait at the red wig wags so tried to cross and ripped off BOTH facing barriers at Billingshurst. Not how Barnham + Three Bridges S&T wanted to spend the evening.

Any chance of a successful prosecution with this one?

[phil-b259]

Any chance of a successful prosecution with this one?

Registration number obtained from a whiteness and OD crossings come with a excellent camera package for enforcement purposes, so hopefully the firm / driver involved will face prosecution.

 

Would much rather it didn't happen in the first place though....

[jim.snowdon]

Remembering your quote of 7.5 seconds between the the wig-wags starting and the barriers coming down - although it is something designed in by others, that is a very long time in comparison with normal traffic signals, as well as being a long time for anyone to mentally appreciate. From recollection of traffic signals in my days as a tramway engineer, the amber time was normally three seconds, and even then we routinely see drivers who will exploit the delay between the red coming up and the conflicting phase turning green. And, as it is predictable, regular users of signalled traffic junctions, and by extension, level crossings get to learn this, not always accurately.

It might be more appropriate for the designers of these crossings to select shorter times, with the barriers starting to come down close behing the wig-wags turning red.

 

Jim

[phil-b259]

Oh yes and all the time we were attempting to repair the crossing, Southern were busily announcing there were 'delays due to a failure of signalling equipment - Not that a 3rd party had collided with a level crossing and damaged it - apparently it was all the fault of the railways own internal equipment going wrong!

 

GRRRRR.

[Budgie]

Perhaps we could prevent people jumping level crossings by borrowing this idea from the Russians.

 

[phil-b259]

Remembering your quote of 7.5 seconds between the the wig-wags starting and the barriers coming down - although it is something designed in by others, that is a very long time in comparison with normal traffic signals, as well as being a long time for anyone to mentally appreciate. From recollection of traffic signals in my days as a tramway engineer, the amber time was normally three seconds, and even then we routinely see drivers who will exploit the delay between the red coming up and the conflicting phase turning green. And, as it is predictable, regular users of signalled traffic junctions, and by extension, level crossings get to learn this, not always accurately.

It might be more appropriate for the designers of these crossings to select shorter times, with the barriers starting to come down close behing the wig-wags turning red.

 

Jim

 

Don't forget level crossings must also cater for pedestrians - some of whom may not be particularly mobile.

 

In fact this is one of the problems at Polgate (also an OD crossing) where elderly residents get confused and attempt to turn back when it is activated (and get hit by the descending entrance / facing / nearside barrier) or take so long passing over the crossing the OD equipment briefly lowers then raises the exit barrier / trailing / offside barriers (meant as a kind of 'please hurry up and get off the crossing' message) which causes them to panic that they were in danger of being hit by a train*

 

 

*An OD crossing is fully interlocked with the railway signals and no signal can ever be set to proceed unless the Radar equipment has positively proved the crossing is clear 3 times AFTER all 4 barriers are lowered. As such anyone 'trapped' between the barriers is perfectly safe and remains protected at OD crossings - unlike those operated by signallers which still suffer from an alarming number of 'looked but did not see' incidents.

Edited February 1, 2018 by phil-b259

[Talltim]

Crazy Yanks !!!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUKZHEVEY5Y

 

Brit15

Did anyone notice the flashing lights set in the road marking the pedestrian crossing? Visible in the scene where the car jumps over the crossing and hits the post

[kevinlms]

Perhaps we could prevent people jumping level crossings by borrowing this idea from the Russians.

 

post-9897-0-90392900-1413615846.png

Not such a good idea. There is youtube evidence to suggest that these are fooled by people standing on the ramps. This lifts the barriers, encouraging drivers attempt to cross. The culprits then jump off, causing vehicles to hit the ramps.

Sorry can't find at present. Edit to add Here's an example

 

 

Note BMW driver was already on the wrong side of the road, ready to go. Won't do that again! The yobs had a great laugh.

 

 

Maybe this is the answer?

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by kevinlms

[rdr]

proper traffic lights and traffic cameras would go a long way to reducing the problems

[phil-b259]

proper traffic lights and traffic cameras would go a long way to reducing the problems

 

As has been repeatedly pointed out, at regular traffic lights, a Police officer may order you to ignore them, plus drivers of blue light emergency vehicles may treat them as 'give way' road junctions.

 

Also, Trains, military jets, movable bridges (or the bodies of water they span) are unable to take 'avoiding action' in the same way pedestrians or other motor vehicles can - which is why a distinctive form of road traffic signal is employed and why said signals CANNOT  be overridden by the word of a Police officer, nor treated as 'Give Way' signs by emergency vehicles.

 

Moreover if drivers are unable to understand that 4 large red flashing lights mean STOP NOW, they should not be in possession of a driving license. The fact that they are flashing and not vertically arranged along with a amber and green one makes NO FLIPPING DIFFERENCE. RED = STOP HOWEVER IT IS DISPLAYED.

 

There is also the little pate of the road sign on the approch to said flashing red lights that says, and I quote "STOP WHEN LIGHTS SHOW"

 

or to put it another way.

 

STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR BAD BEHAVIOUR - having a driving lenience is not a 'right' it is a privilege that is conditional on the motorist remains in full understanding of the traffic signals, signs, lane markings included in the highway code. Persons having trouble understanding such basic concepts such as red light (flashing or steady) = stop shouldn't be on the roads.

 

 

As for cameras, I have personally witnessed a large Police camera van covered in yellow high vis, camera symbols etc and with Police clearly visible, yet still see cars (and pedestrians - yes the flashing red lights also apply to you too as per the legislation that governs their use) not stopping when the red lights are flashing. It seems that a fine and points on your licence is a socially acceptable price to pay just so you can be at your destination a bit quicker.....

Edited February 1, 2018 by phil-b259

[PatB]

Not such a good idea. There is youtube evidence to suggest that these are fooled by people standing on the ramps. This lifts the barriers, encouraging drivers attempt to cross. The culprits then jump off, causing vehicles to hit the ramps.

Sorry can't find at present. Edit to add Here's an example

 

 

Note BMW driver was already on the wrong side of the road, ready to go. Won't do that again! The yobs had a great laugh.

 

 

Maybe this is the answer?

 

 

I like that prototype (Poland?). Short, loco-hauled passenger trains and "interesting" architecture and infrastructure.

[Talltim]

I like that prototype (Poland?). Short, loco-hauled passenger trains and "interesting" architecture and infrastructure.

Slovakia

https://goo.gl/maps/dhdTEbugbh12

Edited February 1, 2018 by Talltim

[big jim]

Remember this from last year....

 

http://media.btp.police.uk/r/15109/man_sentenced_for_climbing_over_level_crossing_ba

[Reorte]

proper traffic lights and traffic cameras would go a long way to reducing the problems

Why? The flashing wig-wags are more restrictive than traffic lights (as has been pointed out), and lessening the restrictions at level crossings would be a dreadful idea. If a driver doesn't know that they shouldn't be on the road. It's true of course that there are a lot of drivers on the road who shouldn't be there, so maybe it's time to bring back the public information film to emphasise the difference between wig-wags and lights. And some high profile prosecutions with a decent penalty. In any case are the people ignoring the lights at level crossings also ignoring traffic lights?

[synthnut]

Not such a good idea. There is youtube evidence to suggest that these are fooled by people standing on the ramps. This lifts the barriers, encouraging drivers attempt to cross. The culprits then jump off, causing vehicles to hit the ramps.

Sorry can't find at present. Edit to add Here's an example

 

 

Note BMW driver was already on the wrong side of the road, ready to go. Won't do that again! The yobs had a great laugh.

I don't think it's actually dropping the ramps that lifts the barriers, you can see a couple of guys forcing them up. There's no reason why they would need to interact that way really either. The issue is more that in order to stop people jumping the lights they would need to pop up before the barriers came down, so pretty hazardous.

[kevinlms]

I don't think it's actually dropping the ramps that lifts the barriers, you can see a couple of guys forcing them up. There's no reason why they would need to interact that way really either. The issue is more that in order to stop people jumping the lights they would need to pop up before the barriers came down, so pretty hazardous.

I don't think your right. Its the other way around, when the barriers come down, the ramps go up. I'm sure I've seen a description/video, where it stated that its a chain driven mechanism attached to the barriers.

 

Clearly if people tamper with the equipment, by standing on the ramp and/or& pushing the barrier arm counterweight, its going to stuff up. Certainly the barrier shouldn't be lifting, while the lights are still flashing. I suspect the group of Yobbos had done this before.

 

Says a lot for the place, where they have to consider ramps like that to prevent people running the barrier.

 

 

A number of years ago, in an attempt to prevent petrol drive-offs without paying, they trialled some similar retracting spikes, here in Melbourne. The idea didn't last long, Presumably, if for some reason the wrong vehicle got done, the cost of a set of tyres for the victim, would vastly exceed the cost of potentially stolen fuel.

[rdr]

Why? The flashing wig-wags are more restrictive than traffic lights (as has been pointed out), and lessening the restrictions at level crossings would be a dreadful idea. If a driver doesn't know that they shouldn't be on the road. It's true of course that there are a lot of drivers on the road who shouldn't be there, so maybe it's time to bring back the public information film to emphasise the difference between wig-wags and lights. And some high profile prosecutions with a decent penalty. In any case are the people ignoring the lights at level crossings also ignoring traffic lights?

there is another viewpoint to consider and that is very few people care whether they go through a railway crossing red flashing light, but most if not all will stop at a camera covered red traffic light.

[Budgie]

there is another viewpoint to consider and that is very few people care whether they go through a railway crossing red flashing light, but most if not all will stop at a camera covered red traffic light.

And some people will set the camera on fire, in a misguided attempt to "help" other motorists.

[The Stationmaster]

there is another viewpoint to consider and that is very few people care whether they go through a railway crossing red flashing light, but most if not all will stop at a camera covered red traffic light.

 

But little to do with the type of lights I am sure.  There were regular instances of abuse at an AOC(L) near us including several collisions between cars and trains - all the locals knew the lights had monitoring equipment, all the locals and anybody who else who used the crossing knew it had cameras (once they had been provided) but people still ignored the lights.  Perhaps a letter to our local 'paper illustrated why because the writer complained that you couldn't see the trains coming from one direction and that was dangerous.  So why did he think it was dangerous not to be able see an approaching train when confronted by 4 extremely obvious red flashing lights?  Simples - he obviously thought that whatever the lights showed he could cross if he couldn't see a train approaching; why else would he bother to write and complain there was no view of an approaching train?

 

And I think that is the case with many level crossing collisions and near misses - people seem to think it's a race between them and the train, just the way it is in umpteen films, and that it will be clever to beat the train.  Oddly that was also the case with old fashioned gated crossings where at one time the accident and fatality rates were far worse than it was at automatic crossings - people were simply trying to beat the gates and collided with them and/or an approaching train, but mainly with the gates.   Same sort of thing happens at crossings with booms as continuing examples show such as the one in the link below (Sunningdale).  It's got little to do with lights and a lot to do with vehicle driver bravado and sheer stupidity.

 

http://www.bracknellnews.co.uk/news/15904499.CCTV_released_of_van_smashing_through_level_crossing_barriers_at_Sunningdale/

[kevinlms]

there is another viewpoint to consider and that is very few people care whether they go through a railway crossing red flashing light, but most if not all will stop at a camera covered red traffic light.

So the answer is to provide a set of cameras at every set of traffic lights & level crossing? Its a ridiculous thought and even if implemented, wouldn't deter those that were for instance, driving a stolen vehicle.

[peanuts]

So the answer is to provide a set of cameras at every set of traffic lights & level crossing? Its a ridiculous thought and even if implemented, wouldn't deter those that were for instance, driving a stolen vehicle.

sadly with the current standard of driving and lack of responsibility for ones own personal saftey amongst the general public it appears to be the only way to deal with it and can only see it getting worse 

[The Stationmaster]

sadly with the current standard of driving and lack of responsibility for ones own personal saftey amongst the general public it appears to be the only way to deal with it and can only see it getting worse 

 

The question would then be what difference has resulted from providing cameras?  At the AOC(L) near us the main differeence it made was that it enabled abusers in motor vehicles to be identified or for their stupidity to feature in level c rossing safety videos. It wasn't so helpful in catching pedestrians and cyclists.

 

Judging by what I saw on the roads just today ona 30 mile journey there are plenty of motorists out there who either finfd it difficult to judge the speed the position/spreed of approaching vehicles or they are prepared to take a chance (hoping the approaching vehicle will slow down) or a mixture of the two.  The letter I quoted about the motorist who complained. that it was dangerous because he couldn't see the approaching trains would seem to indicate exactly that sort of mindset, and stupidity - with the big difference that the approaching train can't stop even if it is already braking.

[scouser]

Maybe better policing of the roads would help. If people knew they could lose the privilege and convenience of driving they might just start to Think!

As for level crossings, maybe all trains should be built like the clsss 20 that was modified for a Bond film?