Level crossing stupidity...

[PhilJ W]

Another reason for the instalation of palisade fencing is cable theft.

[96701]

Please excuse the screen shot but what's going on here?

 

75 ton crane..jpg

 

 

I recall that the crane did overturn during the recovery, although I can't remember the circumstances.

See this post http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/56187-hixon-crash-1968/ It was Derby's crane.

[Reorte]

Another reason for the instalation of palisade fencing is cable theft.

Does it work? I can't see any realistically practical fencing deterring the determined, and thieves are presumably at the determined end. At present they might avoid the palisade fenced areas simply because there are still easier places to get to, which doesn't seem much of a win.It'll keep the casual idiot out at best I'd have thought (and that sort of security being the norm up and down the country instead of a few key locations is the sort of change that I find rather depressing). And I do wish that people were responsible for their own stupid actions. On the railway's responsibility front I've a lot of sympathy for the driver of the train that hits someone, and the people having to deal with the aftermath (wouldn't wish having to deal witht that on anyone), but that's where it stops.

[The Stationmaster]

Another reason for the instalation of palisade fencing is cable theft.

 

And I get the impression that in many places palisade fencing has been erected where trespass was previously a problem.

[Ohmisterporter]

We had palisade fencing around the textile mill where I served my apprenticeship and a hole had been dig underneath it in one place where a well trodden path across a neighbouring field led to it. It was a short cut for mill workers who lived in the village, it saved a quarter mile walk. One day our foreman told us two apprentices to take a wheelbarrow to the farm and bring back a load of cow shmanure to fill up the gap. The following day we heard that two of the blokes from the night shift were late for work; apparently they had to go back home to get changed. Usage of the short cut stopped.

[Reorte]

And I get the impression that in many places palisade fencing has been erected where trespass was previously a problem.

I was going to say "Then why all over Shap?" but I suppose the number of "enthusiasts" after a photo there could've caused issues.

[Mark Saunders]

Another reason for the instalation of palisade fencing is cable theft.

I suspect the real reason is “delay minutes” !

[phil-b259]

I was going to say "Then why all over Shap?" but I suppose the number of "enthusiasts" after a photo there could've caused issues.

 

Another possibility (and related to Mark Saunders post) is the frequency of collisions with wild animals such as Deer - which can easily jump over 'traditional' fencing / walling but will have trouble getting past a Passade fence.

 

Every minutes delay to trains on busy lines costs NR significant sums of money - and with larger animals there can also be significant derailment risks. As such NR are under a duty to consider all mitigating measures.

 

Not for the first time I remind people the national rail network is there to provide transport infrastructure to facilitate the transport of thousands of people and hundreds of tonnes of freight every day - it is not there to act as pretty backdrop to peoples photos, or indulge their desire to have specific steam locos running wherever they want (preferably with any diesel assistance it would seem). As such its only right that 'looking pretty' plays second fiddle to operational needs. True if both can be combined then that's great but if it comes down to a choice, then operational considerations MUST come first.

[jim.snowdon]

Another reason for the instalation of palisade fencing is cable theft.

Except that with the growth of contract labour on the railway, there is growing number of people, not always scrupulous and with no loyalty to the railway, who have keys to the many access gates, all the PPE to look inconspicuous and enough knowledge to recognise the worthwhile cables. Palisade fencing does little, if anything to stop them.

 

Jim

[jim.snowdon]

Another possibility (and related to Mark Saunders post) is the frequency of collisions with wild animals such as Deer - which can easily jump over 'traditional' fencing / walling but will have trouble getting past a Passade fence.

 

Every minutes delay to trains on busy lines costs NR significant sums of money - and with larger animals there can also be significant derailment risks. As such NR are under a duty to consider all mitigating measures.

 

Not for the first time I remind people the national rail network is there to provide transport infrastructure to facilitate the transport of thousands of people and hundreds of tonnes of freight every day - it is not there to act as pretty backdrop to peoples photos, or indulge their desire to have specific steam locos running wherever they want (preferably with any diesel assistance it would seem). As such its only right that 'looking pretty' plays second fiddle to operational needs. True if both can be combined then that's great but if it comes down to a choice, then operational considerations MUST come first.

True, but palisade fencing isn't the only choice in the Network Rail catalogue, even though it does seem to be everywhere. There are alternatives where the risks are lower and a standard for deciding what is appropriate.

 

Jim

[Coryton]

Not for the first time I remind people the national rail network is there to provide transport infrastructure to facilitate the transport of thousands of people and hundreds of tonnes of freight every day - it is not there to act as pretty backdrop to peoples photos, or indulge their desire to have specific steam locos running wherever they want (preferably with any diesel assistance it would seem). As such its only right that 'looking pretty' plays second fiddle to operational needs. True if both can be combined then that's great but if it comes down to a choice, then operational considerations MUST come first.

 

I think the worst effect of these fences is not on the people who like to watch trains or even look out of train windows - it's on people who leave near a railway line and have such monstrosities inflicted on them.

 

I used to live near a residential road which headed towards a railway line then turned parallel to it. All fairly unobtrusive until the palisade fencing went up, at which point looking down the road it seemed as if there was an industrial estate there. Not very pleasant for people living nearby. It wasn't even the green coloured stuff which goes up in select locations and looks marginally less hideous.

 

And just as the green stuff presumably costs more, I imagine that it is also possible - at a cost - to provide something easier on the eye that does as good a job.

 

So we're not just talking about operational considerations vs looking pretty, we're also talking about money (nothing wrong with that, of course - it's all taxpayers' and rail users' money after all).

[beast66606]

True, but palisade fencing isn't the only choice in the Network Rail catalogue, even though it does seem to be everywhere. There are alternatives where the risks are lower and a standard for deciding what is appropriate.

 

Jim

 

Indeed - or even none at all, leave the status quo.

 

My local station has had a single length of fencing installed, 6' high mesh type - the guys who installed it said it was to prevent trespassing. In the 6 years I've visited the station often several times per week I've never seen a single trespasser, in 35 years the guy who owns a house backing on to the fenced area has never seen a trespasser (this is the wilds of Norfolk) and even worse it doesn't even cover the whole length of where these apparent trespassers access the line, so they only need to walk an additional 10 yards and they are still on the track if they want to be. These was an adequate fence, in good order, before hand - so a total waste of money serving no operational (or other) purpose but I guess someone got to tick a box on a form.

[Reorte]

True, but palisade fencing isn't the only choice in the Network Rail catalogue, even though it does seem to be everywhere. There are alternatives where the risks are lower and a standard for deciding what is appropriate.

Some bits near me (not on a high speed line) have acquired some new wooden post and wire fencing, which I imagine is also an awful lot cheaper than palisade fencing, although won't last as long. Does the current standard require palisade fencing on electrified lines? It seems to appear along with some electrification work.

[Reorte]

Not for the first time I remind people the national rail network is there to provide transport infrastructure to facilitate the transport of thousands of people and hundreds of tonnes of freight every day - it is not there to act as pretty backdrop to peoples photos, or indulge their desire to have specific steam locos running wherever they want (preferably with any diesel assistance it would seem). As such its only right that 'looking pretty' plays second fiddle to operational needs. True if both can be combined then that's great but if it comes down to a choice, then operational considerations MUST come first.

Even painting the fencing green has a cost and no operational benefit, yet is often done.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Reorte

[kevinlms]

Even painting the fencing green has a cost and no operational benefit, yet is often done.

Surely such a fence is powder coated in a factory and can be done any (single) colour for the same price?

 

Edit to exclude multicolour fences, which would cost more.

Edited January 7, 2018 by kevinlms

[Reorte]

Surely such a fence is powder coated in a factory and can be done any (single) colour for the same price?

 

Edit to exclude multicolour fences, which would cost more.

I assume there's some extra cost otherwise why ever bother with the unpainted grey?

[peanuts]

I assume there's some extra cost otherwise why ever bother with the unpainted grey?

because an unpainted fence never had to be maintained it just stays grey or goes rusty a painted fence will deteriorate at some point and need repainting which is a cost

[jim.snowdon]

because an unpainted fence never had to be maintained it just stays grey or goes rusty a painted fence will deteriorate at some point and need repainting which is a cost

It is highly unlikely that a fence , whether plain galvanised or powder coated, will ever get painted. More likely is that it will simply be left until it starts to become too decrepit to do its job without excessive maintenance, at which point it will get replaced in entirety.

 

Jim

[luckymucklebackit]

Plain Galvanising will last by far the longest, Powder coating, unless applied over metal that has had electrophoretic treatment is worse than useless, and the electrophoretic treatment is expensive.

 

Jim

[Ohmisterporter]

Would it be permissible for a community that doesn't like grey palisade fencing to club together and paint the fence green, or any other colour they prefer? On the outside only of course, no reason for them to trespass on railway land. 

[Colin_McLeod]

If you could get a community to agree on the colour!

[martin_wynne]

Would it be permissible for a community that doesn't like grey palisade fencing to club together and paint the fence green, or any other colour they prefer? On the outside only of course, no reason for them to trespass on railway land. 

 

Ordinary paint on galvanised metal will peel off in a couple of years and look worse than unpainted. I see that on new works everywhere these days. To paint galvanised metal you must first use the proper zinc-based primer. Usually bright yellow zinc chromate, which is toxic and carcinogenic, so not much used nowadays. Generally nowadays galvanised grey is left unpainted (and will last by far the longest), or else painted instead. But not both.

 

Martin.

Edited January 8, 2018 by martin_wynne

[luckymucklebackit]

Ordinary paint on galvanised metal will peel off in a couple of years and look worse than unpainted. I see that on new works everywhere these days. To paint galvanised metal you must first use the proper zinc-based primer. Usually bright yellow zinc chromate, which is toxic and carcinogenic, so not much used nowadays. Generally nowadays galvanised grey is left unpainted (and will last by far the longest), or else painted instead. But not both.

 

Martin.

 

To be pedantic Martin you can paint certain fine grades of Galvanised steel (Corus marketed a sheet product under the Galvatite Brand) but yes, normal hot dip Galvanised steel is not to be painted.

 

Jim

[Rowsley17D]

 

Van driver gets his comeuppance.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-berkshire-42792441/van-crashes-through-level-crossing-barrier-in-berkshire

[caradoc]

Van driver gets his comeuppance.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-berkshire-42792441/van-crashes-through-level-crossing-barrier-in-berkshire

 

Can't believe this prat was not jailed; The justice system is still not treating these potentially catastrophic incidents seriously.