Level crossing stupidity...

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

... Lifts ... don't incidentally require a station to be staffed provided they are linked to a remote supervisory location which can arrange technical attendance should they go wrong when occupied ...

... and if they go wrong when NOT occupied but someone who's unable to climb stairs wishes to cross the track ........... ??!?

[jcredfer]

3 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

... and if they go wrong when NOT occupied but someone who's unable to climb stairs wishes to cross the track ........... ??!?

 

Eer...  I guess they might work out that it could be beneficial to press the communication button [normally coloured red, to assist in identification].

 

[Wickham Green too]

YEP ! ........ the signaller - or whoever's manning the Mumbai call centre - will, at least, KNOW that someone requires assistance ............... .................

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, jcredfer said:

 

Eer...  I guess they might work out that it could be beneficial to press the communication button [normally coloured red, to assist in identification].

 

That's debateable.

A friend told me about a couple of foreign ladies, at a set of traffic lights, with a call button for the pedestrian lights.

Looking like this.

Apparently they spoke in their native tongue to each other, while pointing at the device. But then just ran across the road anyway!

This design, you press the circular button, the LED to it's top left comes on and the sequence starts. Note the arrow, also has a raised area to assist blind people and it gives different audible tones as well.

 

Not sure what can be done to make it clearer, as to it's operation.

[fulton]

6 hours ago, kevinlms said:

That's debateable.

A friend told me about a couple of foreign ladies, at a set of traffic lights, with a call button for the pedestrian lights.

Looking like this.

Apparently they spoke in their native tongue to each other, while pointing at the device. But then just ran across the road anyway!

This design, you press the circular button, the LED to it's top left comes on and the sequence starts. Note the arrow, also has a raised area to assist blind people and it gives different audible tones as well.

 

Not sure what can be done to make it clearer, as to it's operation.

A bit off topic, we came across a similar crossing in Poland, we waited for the green signal, which came, only problem was that the traffic did not stop, similarly there were black and white crossing markings, which I think meant "Try Crossing Here", you just had to take your chance!

[SM42]

12 minutes ago, fulton said:

A bit off topic, we came across a similar crossing in Poland, we waited for the green signal, which came, only problem was that the traffic did not stop, similarly there were black and white crossing markings, which I think meant "Try Crossing Here", you just had to take your chance!

 

Just for info on this.

 

When using a pedestrian crossing in Poland, you must wait for the green man signal. 

Crossing on red might get you a fine. 

 

Just because you have a green, it doesn't mean all traffic has a red.

 

Turning traffic at light controlled junctions may also have a green ( main aspect or free right turn signal) and must give way to crossing ( not necessarily thinking about crossing) pedestrians. 

 

This can be a bit of a culture shock for non native drivers and pedestrians.

 

Non light controlled crossings, also marked by black and white marking ( red and white at high risk crossings such as on high speed or busy roads) in   theory give the pedestrians already crossing priority. 

It can't be guaranteed but generally traffic will stop if you are waiting to cross.  

 

Andy

[phil-b259]

21 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Lifts are an interesting idea as an alternative to ramps but as you say they are not only expensive but carry a continuing cost for power use and servicing (which means they can't be used anyway at various times if they are in pieces).  They don't incidentally require a station to be staffed provided they are linked to a remote supervisory location which can arrange technical attendance should they go wrong when occupied - as is the case at certain Thames Valley stations. 

 

Agreed - but it seems sensible precaution (and NR policy) to not have them at unstaffed stations if at all possible.

[phil-b259]

21 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 And I would put good money on Farnborough North not having a sufficiently robust power supply to cater for lifts.

 

This is another consideration of course - and another reason why a sloped footbridge which does not require a robust power supply is more cost effective and reliable long term solution.

 

Given the railways are aledgedly costing the taxpayer far too much money, pandering to NIMBYs and going with a solution that is not only expensive to install but has significant ongoing costs (lifts) instead of something which can go decades with minimal expense (ramps) seems very wrong.

Edited May 2, 2023 by phil-b259

[fulton]

3 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

Just for info on this.

 

When using a pedestrian crossing in Poland, you must wait for the green man signal. 

Crossing on red might get you a fine. 

 

Just because you have a green, it doesn't mean all traffic has a red.

Thank you for the timely info, as we are driving to the Polish Baltic coast in two weeks, stopping at Dusseldorf and Hamburg on the way.

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

My point was that facilities provided to the general public do not generate any ticket income to justify the cost of better facilities.

 

If you have paid a goodly sum to the railway company to be delivered to Farnborough North, or anywhere else, you might hope for something a bit better in customer service on arrival. Which might encourage more folks to visit Farnborough North by train, which would generate extra income to pay for the facilities provided. We are supposed to be encouraging more use of public transport, and I don't see the current experience of using that side of Farnborough North station doing much towards that.

 

For example, a mug of hot soup on arrival would be very welcome. Someone to help with luggage. A warm waiting room with a log fire. The Town Band playing popular tunes in the car park... ...

 

Martin. 

Farnborough North, managed by GWR, is unstaffed (the crossing attendant doesn't count as station staff as the post is not part of the TOC) but has a ticket machine and departure information screens plus 5 car parking spaces and 20 bicycle stands.  Public transport links are shiwn on the station website as is the number to contact for information (which might also be shown on a poster or whatever at the station?

 

In other wirds it is about the same as countless other stations on the network and better than some in it at least hasa ticket machine and departure screens.

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Agreed - but it seems sensible precaution (and NR policy) to not have them at unstaffed stations if at all possible.

 

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

This is another consideration of course - and another reason why a sloped footbridge which does not require a robust power supply is more cost effective and reliable long term solution.

 

Given the railways are aledgedly costing the taxpayer far too much money, pandering to NIMBYs and going with a solution that is not only expensive to install but has significant ongoing costs (lifts) instead of something which can go decades with minimal expense (ramps) seems very wrong.

 

Nevertheless the RAIB Report indicates that a footbridge with lifts is the solution currently under consideration, paragraph 101:

 

Quote

Dialogue between Network Rail and Rushmoor Borough Council restarted in February 2021. In April 2021, Network Rail made a new pre-application submission for a proposed twin-tower footbridge with steps and lifts (figure 15). The principal planning officer’s response noted that this scheme was significantly more compact and would comprise the use of sympathetic materials as to not detract from the character and appearance of the Conservation Area. It also noted that if the lifts were not to be in operation when the station was closed, this would alter the current 24/7 access to the station. It stated that these factors must be balanced against the safety needs of the crossing closure and the harm that would result from an alternative ramped bridge.

 

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

 

Nevertheless the RAIB Report indicates that a footbridge with lifts is the solution currently under consideration, paragraph 101:

 

 

 

Indeed - but only because NIMBYS and others have objected to ramps and NR is under pressure to be able to shut the crossing.

 

You also cannot ignore the fact that had it not been for said NIMBYS the footbridge with ramps would be in place by now - the delay is simply because people grumbling over aesthetics and using the planning process to frustrate things.

 

Just because NR is now going for lifts does not alter the fact that at a station like North Camp, ramps are a far more sensible solution in principle than lifts.

[Compound2632]

37 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

You also cannot ignore the fact that had it not been for said NIMBYS the footbridge with ramps would be in place by now - the delay is simply because people grumbling over aesthetics and using the planning process to frustrate things.

 

The Report indicates that there is more to the delay than just that. One point highlighted is the turnover of people within NR meaning that the project has lacked continuity with much time wasted with re-learning what had already been learnt. NR's 5-year project cycles have also been a factor. Also, some objections have been from the Local Authority itself, owing to its legal obligations re. conservation areas. So it can't all be blamed on individual objectors; there's also institutional problems.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Compound2632

[The Stationmaster]

35 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Just because NR is now going for lifts does not alter the fact that at a station like North Camp, ramps are a far more sensible solution in principle than lifts.

As far as I'm aware there is no particular criteria applying as to whether ramps or lifts should be used.  The notmal solution appears to be ramps where space allows and lifts where there is a lack of space (and there are suitable power supplies available.

 

This also appears to betn case in respect of footbridges which serve an additional need as a public footpath even if it is only available whan a station is open (as at Twyford on the GWML where there was no space for ramps.  Twyford incidentally is one location where the lifts remain in operation when the station is unstaffed in order to retain step free access toand between, the platforms.

[big jim]

Disruption earlier in the week after the wires were damaged at Stanford le hope, this has appeared on Twitter as to how it happened! 

 

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

Now, if that had been a rail vehicle there would have been an interlock to prevent it moving 'til it was safe to do so ...........................................

[PhilJ W]

6 hours ago, big jim said:

Disruption earlier in the week after the wires were damaged at Stanford le hope, this has appeared on Twitter as to how it happened! 

 

 

 

With any luck it may have fried the vehicle electronics. Note the power flashing over to the rails beneath the lorry.

[melmerby]

17 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

With any luck it may have fried the vehicle electronics. Note the power flashing over to the rails beneath the lorry.

How on earth can you drive a tipper raised?

 

There are several videos on YT doing just that on Freeways in US, until they hit an overbridge or sign.

Edited May 19, 2023 by melmerby

[johnofwessex]

It seems an asylum is missing a lunatic

[uax6]

28 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

With any luck it may have fried the vehicle electronics. Note the power flashing over to the rails beneath the lorry.

 

Usually what happens is that the tyres blow out, but the lorry is capable of still moving. In the box you usually end up with failed track circuits, and a head ache for the rest of the shift...

 

Andy G

[Darius43]

8 hours ago, melmerby said:

How on earth can you drive a tipper raised?

Quite easy if the driver is a f-wit.  No shortage of them unfortunately…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Hobby]

So no interlock to prevent it? I'd have thought that would be mandatory, at least over a certain speed (I appreciate there may be a need for slow speed manoeuvring with it up)...

[big jim]

Tweet response from Lord Peter Hendy

 

[burgundy]

11 hours ago, uax6 said:

 

Usually what happens is that the tyres blow out, but the lorry is capable of still moving. In the box you usually end up with failed track circuits, and a head ache for the rest of the shift...

 

Andy G

... and, after a flash and bang like that,  the lorry driver needs a clean pair of trousers. 

Best wishes 

Eric 

[Wickham Green too]

..... then lock him up for flashing and banging in a public place ! 🙃