Level crossing stupidity...

[Hobby]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Journalists & Press Officers ..............

 

And their Control, to be fair it just simplifies saying "no trains running either way because it's a single line" but also covers "no trains running either way on either line" for sections with multiple tracks! ;)

[corneliuslundie]

No, it's just done to give us a laugh.

Jonathan

[Budgie]

6 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

No, it's just done to give us a laugh.

Jonathan

It might do that the first time, but when it's every time ...

[StuAllen]

Not really where you want your tractor/tanker to break apart… https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/23556960.lewes-eastbourne-berwick-level-crossing-closed-tomorrow/

Edited May 31, 2023 by StuAllen

[Wickham Green too]

Oh Slurry ! 😕

[Michael Hodgson]

Good job that's not an automatic crossing or a private one, like where most agricultural traffic crosses he line.

[rogerzilla]

It's not a UK crossing, nor is it especially stupid, but the typically American reaction to the sight of Stuff Being Wrecked makes this worth 10 seconds https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-65859078

[Tom Burnham]

2 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

It's not a UK crossing, nor is it especially stupid, but the typically American reaction to the sight of Stuff Being Wrecked makes this worth 10 seconds https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-65859078

I get the impression that grade crossing accidents are common in the USA and are pretty much accepted as a fact of life.  Certainly the National Transportation Safety Board don't seem to carry out many detailed investigations into them, as far as their website goes - https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/Reports.aspx

Can anyone give an informed comment, please?

[rogerzilla]

I wonder how there was time to get an emergency vehicle to the scene but not stop the train.  I suppose the vehicle happened to be in the immediate vicinity and maybe US trains don't all have cab radio.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Tom Burnham said:

get the impression that grade crossing accidents are common in the USA and are pretty much accepted as a fact of life

It doesn't help that many crossings are "humped" unlike the UK where most are flat to the road.

Long vehicles and humped crossings make for plenty of stuck Semis.

[jcredfer]

42 minutes ago, melmerby said:

It doesn't help that many crossings are "humped" unlike the UK where most are flat to the road.

Long vehicles and humped crossings make for plenty of stuck Semis.

 

I have to wonder why they haven't shown any intention to solving such a simple problem, with longer approach ramps.   I struggle to avoid the cynical opinion that they consider that the loss of trucks and lives is a lesser cost to pay for, than  prevention.

 

[PhilJ W]

2 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

I wonder how there was time to get an emergency vehicle to the scene but not stop the train.  I suppose the vehicle happened to be in the immediate vicinity and maybe US trains don't all have cab radio.

Several thousand tons of train takes some stopping.

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, jcredfer said:

 

I have to wonder why they haven't shown any intention to solving such a simple problem, with longer approach ramps.   I struggle to avoid the cynical opinion that they consider that the loss of trucks and lives is a lesser cost to pay for, than  prevention.

 

They have too many crossings to do much about it.   The question would be who pays to make the level crossing level - the railway or the highway authority.  The accidents are not caused by the railway failing to observe the rules, and the highway authority would have to fund improvements out of taxation in a country which equates higher taxes with communism.

 

An accident involving a road vehicle and a train is generally not really a railway accident.  In nearly all cases it's just another road accident caused by error on the part of some road user the same as two cars colliding, but the third party happens in this case to be a railway and the bang tends to be more spectacular.  If you're worried about the loss of trucks, then it's road safety generally that you need to address, and yes, they're not prepared to pay more to prevent road accidents than they already do.

 

Our own railway accident investigations here are done aiming primarily to minimise potential risk to railway employees and passengers, recognising that a derailment can be the result, although obviously they will also consider the possibility that the railway may be at fault.  If memory serves the statistical reporting in the old HMRI annual reports used to exclude level crossing accidents and suicides.

[rogerzilla]

I think UK non-high speed lines are fairly unique in the world by being fully fenced.  Elsewhere, there is more of an onus on the public to keep off the tracks.

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, rogerzilla said:

I think UK non-high speed lines are fairly unique in the world by being fully fenced.  

 

Remembering that the relevant UK legislation applied in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and hence in the whole of Ireland to this day. 

[kevinlms]

Of note in the video is the delayed sound, illustrating that sound travels much more slowly than the speed of light. Check how long after the impact, it takes for sound to reach the camera.

[Michael Hodgson]

6 hours ago, rogerzilla said:

I think UK non-high speed lines are fairly unique in the world by being fully fenced.  Elsewhere, there is more of an onus on the public to keep off the tracks.

I think we're also unusual in making it a criminal offence to trespass on the railway.  Foreigners mostly don't seem to bother - they maybe erect keep out signs in places like tunnels and danger signs to warn those of limited intellect.  Overseas the public seem to just wander about at will and nobody bats an eye, especially in the sub-continent and far east generally.

[Artless Bodger]

I was surprised years ago to see photos of German railway lines with unfenced adjacent roads, including one with a young family cycling along mere metres from passing trains. On mentioning to a colleague with Austrian roots, his response was in the nature of, 'well who'd be stupid enough to go onto a railway line anyway, people don't wander in the middle of the road.' 

[Tom Burnham]

15 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Our own railway accident investigations here are done aiming primarily to minimise potential risk to railway employees and passengers, recognising that a derailment can be the result, although obviously they will also consider the possibility that the railway may be at fault.  If memory serves the statistical reporting in the old HMRI annual reports used to exclude level crossing accidents and suicides.

Although the RAIB seem to have done a number of investigations into level crossing accidents - and even more near misses - in recent years. One of their concerns is that of user worked crossings for access to farms and the like, which are being used by an increasing number of drivers who don't use that particular crossing regularly, such as delivery van drivers.

[Michael Hodgson]

Our ludicrous requirement to fence everything is a relic of our having invented the steam engine built the first railways.

 

We don't want these fire-eating smoke-belching monsters hissing and spitting at us.  They'll frighten the horses so we can't let them any nearer London than the Marylebone Road.  Who wants to travel any faster than a horse can gallop anyway?  As Dionysius Lardner (there's a name to conjure with) said, we'd be unable to breathe at higher speeds and would die of asphixiation - he told Brunel if the brakes were to fail in Box Tunnel a train would accelerate to 120 mph at which speed it would break up and kill everybody. 

 

So of course we have to fence the line to protect animals from this invention of Satan.

 

PS  There is of course a stronger case for fencing routes with the 3rd rail

Edited June 10, 2023 by Michael Hodgson

[Michael Hodgson]

2 minutes ago, Tom Burnham said:

Although the RAIB seem to have done a number of investigations into level crossing accidents - and even more near misses - in recent years. One of their concerns is that of user worked crossings for access to farms and the like, which are being used by an increasing number of drivers who don't use that particular crossing regularly, such as delivery van drivers.

The concern is not for the farm labourers or couriers.  White van man ignoring all the rules is expendable.  It's the risk to the train of a big truck or a heavy piece of modern agricultural equipment blocking the line.  It's the idea of another Upton Nervet that worries us; or this

https://www.railcar.co.uk/topic/accidents/details/chivers-crossing-1976

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/152

[33C]

Another problem with a level crossing is the driver who can  access the line to escape the police, and then drives along until he meets me coming the other way, as recently happened. By the time we met, his car was very badly damaged, across the line and vacated. I spotted his headlights in the distance and stopped short. We have thieves stealing vans by driving them along the line to access a level crossing or leaving plant in the 4 foot when it gets stuck. No deaths,.. so far...

[Michael Hodgson]

... and one or two who listen to the satnav telling them "Now turn left".

They've mostly go driving licencecs too.

[25kV]

The risks of occupation crossings became apparent to me back in the 1980s while sitting behind the driver in a 108 heading up between Clitheroe and Hellifield, back in the days when the line had no traffic on it except occasional diversions (and the monthly Dales Rail - which this train was).  A tractor and trailer drove up and onto the line in front of us without so much as a glance ... the horn sounds and the tractor's occupant must have had a moment because he stopped abruptly and had gravity assist him quickly back off the crossing. 

[rogerzilla]

On 10/06/2023 at 15:12, Michael Hodgson said:

The concern is not for the farm labourers or couriers.  White van man ignoring all the rules is expendable.  It's the risk to the train of a big truck or a heavy piece of modern agricultural equipment blocking the line.  It's the idea of another Upton Nervet that worries us; or this

https://www.railcar.co.uk/topic/accidents/details/chivers-crossing-1976

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/152

Hixon is the prime example of that.  You couldn't really block a crossing with anything worse than a giant transformer.