A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[2ManySpams]

Don't know if this is good morning or good evening but I've been up about five hours!

 

Railways-Stonehouse-30207.jpg

 

Another guessing game, rarish picture on a little used line - the last one was at Shaugh Bridge platform, but you knew that anyway!

 

Brian.

Stonehouse.

[brianusa]

There can't be many pictures of this line considering the usage it got.  Presumably it was busy at the time of the short lived boat trains.  That's it for the SR on this GW site unless there are running powers!

 

Brian.

[The Stationmaster]

Possibly either term was learned in short trousers at the end of the platform.  Certain railway terms were absorbed, perhaps not understood and then spread around similarly garbed underliners in ABCs until we all thought we were all potential enginemen.  Banking was the most widely used along with double headers.  Piloting was virtually unheard of.

 

Brian.

I think there's a lot in that Brian - plus various magazines and books haven't helped over the years.  It is sometimes very difficult to convince people that a term isn't correct when it's been splattered all over the place for very many years.  Equally it can be fascinating how a particular local name for something has somehow or other got into common currency and come to be regarded as 'the' nickname or whatever for that particular item or activity when in fact it was originally very limited and restricted in use.  One example which I first came across on here was the use of the term 'the beds' to describe the Penzance sleeper - something I had never heard anywhere on the Western between Plymouth and Paddington (and I worked on most of that during my railway career) so perhaps a particular local expression somewhere?

 

There is also no doubt that in some cases official terminology changed over the years - 'catch point' being one example which can lead to considerable confusion but which had changed in several ways between 1900 and the mid 1930s (but hasn't changed since).

 

As far as 'pilot engine' is concerned I shall have to have a delve in Ahrons to see if he might have used the term - alas I've got no copies of 'The Railway Magazine' dating from before the 1930s so that would really be too late a source; I'm fairly sure it was incorrectly used by LTC Rolt more than once and no doubt some folk picked it up from there.

 

'Pick up goods' is one which I long attributed to C.J Freezer as I have never seen it used in working or service timetables however I did come across it in 'Memoirs of A Stationmaster', written I think in the 1860s (I can't check at present) so it might be that its origin lies there and it somehow crept into widespread use to become an accepted term for a freight trip or local freight train - strange how old terms linger on

[NHY 581]

In order to address the lamentable lack of L&SWR images as of late.....Here's one from the S&DJR....

 

Rob

[Mallard60022]

Someone needs to tell Brian........it's not fair that we all know the answers!

I saw an M7 on the Stonehouse Line just once although I had seen the same emerging from the tunnel into the King's Road Yard a few times.
There's not a lot of pics of DKR but the Station was impressive as it had been a Terminus.

Apologies for the blue thing on the Royal Train (stabled); the Yard tunnel entrance/exit can be seen far left.

This view from 1958 until 1963/4 is what I saw almost every morning and afternoon; it was far more interesting then. here it just looks really sad.

 Quackers

 

Edited September 5, 2015 by Mallard60022

[2ManySpams]

In order to address the lamentable lack of L&SWR images as of late.....Here's one from the S&DJR....

Rob

Nice three set of Maunsell coaches, the sort with the long brake compartments. And a LSWR 4F?! ;-P

[Mallard60022]

In order to address the lamentable lack of L&SWR images as of late.....Here's one from the S&DJR....

 

Rob

Dear Mr Cardiff. This is a very good picture, however it would be much better if the locomotive was not one of those weird machines built somewhere dark and far away in the midlands. It is no excuse that it had once been blue and was right hand drive. I shall be contacting Mr Grayson at my earliest convenience and you should be prepared to receive the appropriate punishment when he calls to see you. 

Sincerely, 

Molly Midford.

[NHY 581]

Dear Mr Cardiff. This is a very good picture, however it would be much better if the locomotive was not one of those weird machines built somewhere dark and far away in the midlands. It is no excuse that it had once been blue and was right hand drive. I shall be contacting Mr Grayson at my earliest convenience and you should be prepared to receive the appropriate punishment when he calls to see you. 

Sincerely, 

Molly Midford.

 

I have donned my leather pants and await Grayson in my study.

 

Rub.

[mattingleycustom]

Well I've succumbed to the Bachmann Standard tank when a highly regarded follower of this thread offered me his spare lined green version.A deal was done at a very decent price and here is soon to be 82006 sat at Tigley Junction shed waiting for the weekends work.

 

DSCN6961.jpg

 

DSCN6964.jpg

 

DSCN6965bw.jpg

 

DSCN6968.jpg

 

DSCN6966.jpg

I too have fallen for the charms of the Bachmann Standard Class 3 Tank.

 

I renumbered one and listed it for sale for a while, but once I realised it was the only one I had left, I removed it from my website and have retained 82024 as one of my own ... going soft in my old age.

 

Glenn 

[Mallard60022]

Dear Mr Portsmouth. I understand that you have a BR Standard Class T for sale at a very reasonable price. If I tell Grayson not to call around would you be interested in doing something more healthy and striking a deal on said locomotive.

Yours sincerely,

Willy Riddles.

[Mallard60022]

Don't use the doors unless you put them on a frame they will bow like he11 otherwise.

Not according to the other thread they won't, when supported adequately.

Quackers.

[mattingleycustom]

Dear Mr Portsmouth. I understand that you have a BR Standard Class T for sale at a very reasonable price. If I tell Grayson not to call around would you be interested in doing something more healthy and striking a deal on said locomotive.

Yours sincerely,

Willy Riddles.

No, shan't !!!

[coachmann]

Good morning scholars, Nice shot of the 3P Set behind a 4F on the slow & dirty. This is Afon Wen in 1964, my final visit in steam days. The rot was already set in with Mk.I coaches and neglected BR Std. Class 4's of 2-6-4T and 4-6-0 variety......

[Mallard60022]

Don't argue with me I'm an expert   

OK then I give in. However it is me that is warped, not the carefully made in Korea cardboard doors!

P

[Mallard60022]

Sorry......good mooving.

nice and at Swindon so allowed on here.

 not so nice and somewhere that I thought was Nine Elms but there is a weird shaped thingy in the background but is actually Nine Elms. What was that other thing doing there?

 

Quackers.

Edited September 5, 2015 by Mallard60022

[Edwardian]

Fascinating line of enquiry has opened up on nomenclature.  Clearly these misnomers are more widespread than I had ever imagined. It would be intriguing to learn when and how some of this incorrect usage came about.

 

If, for example, "piloting" isn't the right term for assisting locomotives at the front of a train, how and why and when did that usage come about?

 

There may be at least 3 degrees of correctness/incorrectness: (i) officially sanctioned terminology, as found in the rule book; (ii) what contemporaries actually called things, trickier to pin down as everyone alive in the periods that interest me were either not old enough to know or are gone; (iii) modern misapplications.

 

A consensus seems to be building in favour of (iii) with regard to piloting, which, if correct, shows how pervasive and influential incorrect usage can be.   

[The Stationmaster]

Morning all,

 

Now for something completely different and as Larry doesn't seem over-keen on Mk1 coaches he might like to see how one of my Shunters treated them.  So apologies for the dieseasal nature of this view and all that yellow paint but this shows what can happen if you propel a train of Mk1s into the side of an HST.

 

 

 

I've done a bit of quick delving into Ahrons writings and he appears to use the expression 'pilot' in reference to an engine based somewhere for that purpose - without saying what purpose but also refers to 'piloting' in connection with an additional engine attached to a train (again the exact purpose is not made clear) so these are his terms dating from 'Railway Magazine' articles c.1913.

 

The GWR June 1891 and May 1901 Service timetables both have references to 'Bank Engines' and make it clear that they are provided to give assistance to 'goods trains' when the load and weather etc warrant - all such engines are consistently listed as 'Bank Engines (note - not 'banking').  Judging by a note in the June 1891 STT providing an assistant engine for a passenger train would seem to have been frowned on.

 

In Section 1 in both the 1891 and 1901 books 'Shunting Engines' are referred to as such but interestingly the May 1901 book refers to the trains between Reading West Jcn and Reading Central as 'Pilot Service' - because they were worked by a yard pilot although the same engine is shown elsewhere as a 'Shunting Engine'.

 

But what I can find no reference to at all in any of my GWR Service TTs which I have looked at is a mention of a 'Pilot Engine' (or 'piloting') to assist a train and, as previously noted, that term was very definitely not used in respect of assisting front on the GWR in 1920.  Overall the earliest reference I have to use of the term 'Pilot' is in respect of yard/station pilots in the 1866 STT I have.  However I have not checked every section of my June 1891 STT although it does appear possible that the terms 'Shunting Engine' and 'Pilot' were interchangeable depending on which office was responsible for a particular section of the Service TT before it was later standardised on 'Pilot' (or when STT production was centralised perhaps?).

 

As already mentioned I also have the relevant Minute Books (although not both levels of the committees involved) and there is a reference in a 1912 minute to 'Bank Engines' providing assistance in the rear of 'goods trains'.  Th eonly appearance of the word pilot' is in its proper context relating to a Pilotman.

 

So 'bank engine' can readily be seen to have become 'banking' as the colloquialism/shorthand for assistance to the rear of train but I can find nothing at all which gives any reason whatsoever to connect the term pilot or pilot engine with assistance at the front of a train (based on RCH information from the immediate 1914 period and GWR sources going back to 1866.  What lesser Railways did might of course be something else but as far as the S&D JtR was concerned their 1933 Instruction refers to 'bank and assisting engines' obviously thus distinguishing between assistance rear and assistance front.

Edited September 5, 2015 by The Stationmaster

[Mallard60022]

Ah so doors will remain in garage then.

Thanks.

[Mulgabill]

Sorry......good mooving.

82030SwindonWorks18-10-59.jpg nice and at Swindon so allowed on here.

82019NineElms14-3-67.jpg  not so nice and somewhere that I thought was Nine Elms but there is a weird shaped thingy in the background but is actually Nine Elms. What was that other thing doing there?

 

Quackers.

This is a class that holds fond memories for me. They were regulars on the Bristol - Bath midland line services in the last years of that service. As a boy in about 64 or 65 I used to go from Mangotsfield to Bristol TM for 10d child day return, when the only steam left was that working working those trains, or so it seems.

 

82001 and 82004 were regulars, especially 82004 which always seemed to take me on that adventure. However neither were anywhere near as clean as these photos, in fact 82004 would be considered to be black, apart from a small area around the cabside numbers, which were just heavily weathered (i.e. a hint of green).

 

Oh what I would give to be able to afford one of those Bachman versions, to replace the Triang version that I had for Christmas in about 1962. (This was heavily weathered by myself as a youth, having first experimented with candle soot, which in turn produced a slight say in the top edge of one tank - oops!)

 

Regards TONY

[The Stationmaster]

Ah so doors will remain in garage then.

Thanks.

Hence what I said about storing them flat - I think the slightly warped one we have in the house now suffered from incorrect storage in the way Bob mentions.

[Captain Kernow]

Maroon is this week's colour...

Did someone say maroon?

[Mallard60022]

Did someone say maroon?

DSCN7170.JPG

Now that actually looks rather nice.

P

[gwrrob]

The trouble with buying a loco from out of my preferred time period is I have no freight suitable to run behind it so I going to compromise as usual.

[Nick Gough]

Is 5542 shrinking or is the GWR growing?

[Neal Ball]

Is 5542 shrinking or is the GWR growing?

 

The Roundel on this loco was always too big and too yellow