Class 08 Questions

[boeing757]

Hello,

 

Can anyone tell me when the nose end ladders were removed from the 08s?

 

Secondly, what colour were the cab and bonnet roofs in the BR green livery.? I have seen models both all over green and with grey cab roofs ie the original HD model, and grey bonnet and cab roofs. Which are correct.

 

Any help/ pointers to original photos confirming would be appreciated.

 

Bob

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Bob

 

The ladders were removed from the early 60s, starting with the LMR and ER locos that were allocated to areas with overhead electric equipment. Some WR and SR locos carried them up about 1970. The work involved a bit more than removing the ladders, the radiator filling cap was on the top of the radiator when they were built, hence the ladders to get to it. It was moved lower down so that the guys filling the radiator would not get zapped. The ladders were then removed to prevent crew members from climbing too high.

 

The livery when in green was a grey cab roof and a green top to the engine compartment.

[Rugd1022]

A handful lasted a little further into the '70s with the ladders still fitted, one example was St.Blazey's 3526, which also had it's BR logo on the cabside below the number. There's a photo of it in the Bradford Barton 'Diesels On Cornwall's Mainline' book ;-)

[boeing757]

Thank you both for your replies. I am modelling ex GER area late 50s so it looks like green/grey and ladders attached.

 

B

[clecklewyke]

Thank you both for your replies. I am modelling ex GER area late 50s so it looks like green/grey and ladders attached.

 

B

Or blackberry black - lovely.

 

When painted black what was the colour of the coupling rods - red or bare metal? Unfortunately most pictures of this period are in black and white and there is no obvious difference.

 

Ian

[Clive Mortimore]

Thank you both for your replies. I am modelling ex GER area late 50s so it looks like green/grey and ladders attached.

 

B

Hi Bob

 

Spanner in the works time.

 

Where on the GER?

 

First. There were no 350 hp shunters east of a line from Harwich to March.

 

Second. The ER had quite a large number of LMS designed Class 11 350hp shunters and the Blackstone engined Class 10 locos west of that line.

 

Third. Most locos under (about) D3350 were painted black and many could still have their 13xxx numbers.

 

Fourth. Darlington built locos, of which quite a few were ER locos, were painted differently to the other works. They had black radiators (that do not show up readily in black and white photos), varnished wood on the cab doors and unpainted coupling rods. Another Darlington quirk was the BR emblem on the engine room doors not the battery box. Doncaster and Stratford repaints also had this feature.

 

Fifth. Stratford was experimenting with wasp stripes at this point in time. Quite a few had them applied to the lower half of the cab rear. Some had downward facing chevrons on their radiators.

 

If only the life of the humble 350 hp shunter was that easy.

[boeing757]

Hello Clive,

 

Yes certainly a small spanner.

I am modelling the Braintree - Bishops Stortford branch at Felsted late 50s. I can recall 350 hp shunters at Braintree though not exactly when, could have been 60/61. They were certainly green, I don't think they had stripes and the coupling rods were buried inches under grot so could have been any colour.

I bought a 7mm MMP kit off ebay, half done as a way of getting back into modelling. It was a very bad move, the kit has been poorly started and I suspect more than 1 modeller has had a go. It is nearly there now, still a few issues with the brake rodding and some of the minute detail. My kit has etched chevrons on the ends, I think I may struggle to hide them and the ladders are very flimsy and my predecessors have busted the mounting brackets. So I can try and build it to 50s condition, ladders/no stripes or stretch my era to satisfy stripes and ladders removed. Decisions decisions.....

Incidentally, no critiscism of the MMP kit, in fact the opposite, I just wish it had been unstarted.

I should have mentioned I have the Diesel Shunter by Marsden, but was disappointed at the lack of photos in the green era for the 08.

 

Thanks for your interest, any other comments welcomed.

 

Bob

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Bob

 

West of the magic line

 

I would go for a Darlington machine with its black radiator, varnished wood cab door, and number it as a Stratford based Class 10 just to be different.

 

What combination of cab doors, engine room doors and vacuum exhauster does the MMR model have? This could have a bearing on the livery. If it is an early loco with wood door frame, external hinges on the engine room doors and vacuum exhauster boxes both sides then it could well still be in black in the late 50s. If it has only a single vacuum exhauster on the left hand side, with or without the external hinges to the engine room doors then it would be green. Some with external hinges and single exhauster were black. If it has no external hinges on the engine room doors and twin exhauster boxes with a wooden door it would have been green when new, it was during this phase that the wasp ends were applied to new locos so the later numbered ones in this group were not plain green. If it has a metal cab door it would have had wasp stripes from new. The humble 350hp shunter had quite a complicated life even from birth.

 

As for Felstead, I live quite near in Little Waltham. I had two girlfriends who came from Felstead before I got married.

[boeing757]

Clive,

 

Well, the loco has wooden cab doors, two exhaust boxes and external hinges. I would like it to be green as all my other  stock is steam and black so it would be a little bit different. As I said, one problem is the etched chevrons and the other the flimsy ladders. I think I will be forced to go with the stripes and omit the ladders which means moving out of my self imposed era.

Before I finally decide, I will try the ladders and see if they will stand up to handling. If so, I may try and hide the stripes and so get back to 50s post black state.

Not as easy as I thought having delved into this topic a bit.

As a lad I grew up in Felsted, I seem to recall a couple of good pubs in Lt Waltham. Sadly not been back for nearly 5 decades. Happy memories though.

 

All the Best

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Bob

 

No problem with it being green, just need to find a photo of an early ER repaint....that might be a problem as early photos of the biggest class of locomotive to run on BR seem very hard to find.

 

Now down to one pub and that is not so good these days.

[45125]

Hi Bob

 

The ladders were removed from the early 60s, starting with the LMR and ER locos that were allocated to areas with overhead electric equipment. Some WR and SR locos carried them up about 1970. The work involved a bit more than removing the ladders, the radiator filling cap was on the top of the radiator when they were built, hence the ladders to get to it. It was moved lower down so that the guys filling the radiator would not get zapped. The ladders were then removed to prevent crew members from climbing too high.

 

The livery when in green was a grey cab roof and a green top to the engine compartment.

All the 08,09 and 10 had the ladders removed and the dosing flap welded up as part of the modification. Three metal stips where also weded to the side grills to prevent people using the holes to climp up to the dosing flap. They already had the fillers fitted at the lower point when built. The class 11s had no lower filler (the two pipes coming from the top of the rad) these were added to some 11s later on, suspect the radiator units came from withdrawn 08s etc. 

 

The idea of the two filler pipes came about with reference to staff complaning that it was hard in poor conditions to climb up with a hose pipe and top the radiator up in yards. These lower filler you can push a hose pipe on it and wait till it flows from the other filler indicating its full.

 

Al Taylor

[ChrisH]

Hello,

 

Can anyone tell me when the nose end ladders were removed from the 08s?

 

Secondly, what colour were the cab and bonnet roofs in the BR green livery.? I have seen models both all over green and with grey cab roofs ie the original HD model, and grey bonnet and cab roofs. Which are correct.

 

Any help/ pointers to original photos confirming would be appreciated.

 

Bob

The details of green diesel shunters depended on which workshop had built or last repainted the loco, despite the years of 'standardisation'

 

The Eastleigh standard finish was black cab and engine compartment roof, with the badge on the engine room door. The side rods were not painted, just greased, although the outside cranks were red.

 

Chris

[Clive Mortimore]

All the 08,09 and 10 had the ladders removed and the dosing flap welded up as part of the modification. Three metal stips where also weded to the side grills to prevent people using the holes to climp up to the dosing flap. They already had the fillers fitted at the lower point when built. The class 11s had no lower filler (the two pipes coming from the top of the rad) these were added to some 11s later on, suspect the radiator units came from withdrawn 08s etc. 

 

The idea of the two filler pipes came about with reference to staff complaning that it was hard in poor conditions to climb up with a hose pipe and top the radiator up in yards. These lower filler you can push a hose pipe on it and wait till it flows from the other filler indicating its full.

 

Al Taylor

Cheers Al

 

I knew that the ladders were removed to stop BR staff from coming in contact with the live wires when going up to fill the radiator. I didn't know they were already fitted with low level fillers. Thanks for the further information.

 

When were the covers fitted over the lower slots on the side of the radiator? I cannot recall seeing a photo of a wasp end painted one without them but early green and black ones did not have them.

 

 

The details of green diesel shunters depended on which workshop had built or last repainted the loco, despite the years of 'standardisation'

 

The Eastleigh standard finish was black cab and engine compartment roof, with the badge on the engine room door. The side rods were not painted, just greased, although the outside cranks were red.

 

Chris

Hi Chris

 

I have seen this livery variation on some Class 12 locos but not on a BR standard 350hp, I would be interested in seeing a photo.

[45125]

Clive,

 

I presume the cover you are talking about is the one over the lower holes in the side cover. These pre date the removal of the ladders, there is a photo of D3843 in green with no wasp stripes at Patricroft , on Rail-Online.

 

Al Taylor.

[Enterprisingwestern]

First. There were no 350 hp shunters east of a line from Harwich to March.

 

There were some in Holland

 

Mike.

[ChrisH]

 

There you go Clive.  (assuming it works)

 

Chris

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Al

 

I am enjoying going through the Rail-Onlaine photos. I have just come across D3541,D3544, D3546 and D3550 without these covers, no ladders, and in plain green. At Ferryhill and Perth in 1962.

 

D3667.m.jpg

 

There you go Clive.  (assuming it works)

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris

 

Thanks.

 

Warning 350 shunter minefield ahead, tread carefully.

[kevinlms]

There were some in Holland

 

Mike.

And Victoria, Australia - so the most southerly, too!

[Enterprisingwestern]

And Victoria, Australia - so the most southerly, too!

 

Did they have Magnedhesion to keep them on the track?

 

Mike.

[kevinlms]

Did they have Magnedhesion to keep them on the track?

 

Mike.

Yes of course, otherwise they'd fall away, duh! Makes the wagons hard to push too.

 

Just as well no toilets came with them, otherwise they'd have to replace them with ones where the water goes the right way round.