Old Photos from 1920s (?) found in a secondhand book

[PGH]

Many years ago, so the story goes, a friend of mine purchased a secondhand book and found within it an envelope containing 14 negatives.  As he had no interest in photography he passed the negatives on to me, which were duly printed then filed away.  There was no indication with the negatives on where, when or by whom they were taken although some were obviously taken shortly after the 1923 Grouping.  I have recently done digital scans from these negatives and thought the results might be of interest to RMweb members and may possibly produce suggestions on where some of the photos were taken.  What is fairly remarkable about these negatives is the range of subjects covered, they include an industrial loco and locos from the following pre-grouping railways: Cleator & Workington Junction, Furness, L&NWR, Midland, Highland, North Eastern and Great Northern.

 

 

 

MILLGROVE was built by Peckett & Sons of Bristol in 1919 for the Cleator & Workington Junction Railway as their number 9.  It followed a similar loco supplied by Peckett in 1907, No.8 HUTTON HALL, and both were to the maker's standard Class Q design although modified with vacuum brake and Ramsbottom safety valves.  After the Grouping it was allocated the number 11567 by the LMS as shown in the photo.  MILLGROVE had a relatively short life, as I believe it was withdrawn by the LMS in 1928 and scrapped.

In the photo it appears to be at the end of a station platform with the end of an overall roof spanning the tracks just in view to the left - you can just make out the decorative cast support and glass roof panels.  The end of the wall supporting the roof has a circular opening with decoration in the brickwork above.  There is a platform awning on the far side, presumably on another platform outside the overall roof.  Just in view on the right is the end of a signal cabin (?) with an unusual end window comprising 4 panes but with an additional circular pane in the centre.  There can't be many places that fit all these details so any ideas where this photo was taken ?

 

 

 

The second view is from a rather better negative with the crew posing for the photographer, but appears to be at the same location with the same earth bank behind the loco as the previous photo.

 

 

 

LMS 11100 was the first of the 5 handsome Baltic tank locos built by Kitson in 1920/21 for the Furness Railway and used on express and mail trains between Carnforth and Whitehaven.  The loco is standing on the ex Furness line at the north end of Carnforth Station in front of the 1903 Carnforth Station Junction signal box.  The buildings on the right are on the far side of a road behind the wall and are still standing today (or they were when Google street view passed that way !) but the chimney of Carnforth Ironworks behind has disappeared.

 

 

 

Furness Railway No.66, one of 55 similar locos built for the railway by Sharp Stewart between 1866 and 1884.  I believe No.66 was built in 1871 and scrapped in 1916, and if this is correct the photo was taken considerably earlier than the previous one, although the chimney behind appears to be the same Carnforth Ironworks chimney, in which case the location would be Carnforth Yard just south of the main loco shed.

 

To be continued……….

[coachmann]

Thanks for sharing Phil. First impression when looking at the Furness Baltic Tank 11100 was the LMS had taken the lower lining in a straight line, however, it appears the lower side tanks and bunker may have been repaired, or were these strengthening plates?

[PGH]

Thanks for sharing Phil. First impression when looking at the Furness Baltic Tank 11100 was the LMS had taken the lower lining in a straight line, however, it appears the lower side tanks and bunker may have been repaired, or were these strengthening plates?

 

No Larry, its actually a line of rivets along the bottom of the tank and continued in a straight line through the cab side and bunker.  The lower lining is above the rivets along the bottom of the tank but drops to run parallel with the edge of the footplate.

 

 

[coachmann]

Hey, they must be good photos to enlarge to show that kind of detail. Thanks for making it clear.

[PGH]

 

LMS 8015 an ex LNWR Special DX 0-6-0, the initials LMS are just visible on the lower cab side.

 

 

 

LMS 6956 an ex LNWR 4-6-2T, sometimes referred to as tank version of the Prince of Wales 4-6-0s but actually introduced some months before the tender locos and with significant differences such as smaller diameter wheels and a belpaire instead of round top firebox.

The location is unusual.  The building on the right is passenger accomodation but on a platform virtually at track level.  Inside the doorway is a sign pointing to 'Ladies Room' and next to the doorway outside is an oval plate with the number 99.  The actual platform is under and beyond the overbridge and situated on a fairly sharp curve to the right.  The platform has oil lamps, a nameboard and a seat, also some loose drainage pipes, but is devoid of any shelter.  Any ideas where this could be ?

 

 

 

LMS 7953 a Beames 0-8-4T, originally intended for South Wales but I believe sometimes used for heavy shunting elsewhere.  To the right of the loco is a wall with the tops of a couple of vans visible on the other side, so there are other lines between that wall and the high retaining wall.  

[SHMD]

Hi PGH,

 

First of all thanks for sharing - I just love these pics.

 

The photo with 6590, (unkown location), is just wonderful.

Another interesting point, about this photo, is that the signal posts appear to be fixed to the bridge! Is this unusual/common or are my eyes playing up again?

 

 

Best regards,

Kev.

 

 

Edit: That should read 6596 - I'm as blind as a bat, and twice as daft! 

[pointstaken]

Hey, they must be good photos to enlarge to show that kind of detail. Thanks for making it clear.

 

Excellent I would say, considering the standard and weight of the equipment I would imagine the photographer had to lug around at that time. Or am I overestimating these factors ?

 

Also the length of the boiler on the Beames 0-8-4T puts me in mind of the Raven "Skittle Alleys" !

 

Dennis

[SHMD]

I think I've just worked  the signals. 

There not attached to the bridge at all but are on a gantry mounted from a post on the end of the platform.

 

 

Kev.

[SHMD]

That 6956 photo,

 

The signals show that the turn to the right is the main route, (the one the locois taking), and when you look at the rails, the straight on route already looks unused.

 

 

Kev.

[t-b-g]

Lovely stuff. Many thanks for sharing them with us.

 

Tony

[bigd]

I think 6956 is at Lowton St Mary's.

It has come from Golborne and is taking the line towards Newton le Willows.

[LMS2968]

I think 6956 is at Lowton St Mary's.

It has come from Golborne and is taking the line towards Newton le Willows.

Nearly right: Lowton St Mary's was on the GCR Glazebrook Jct to Wigan Central and St Helens Central line. This is Lowton Junction, looking north. The lines on the left are from Parkside West Jct (L&M to Liverpool) and those on the right to Parkside East Jct (L&M to Manchester). These latter were the original lines from the Wigan Branch Railway to the L&M; the west facing Junction didn't come until later. At Earlstown, the spur from the Warrington and Newton Railway originally faced west only, so through trains from Warrington and the south needed two reversals to reach Preston and the north.

 

The Bridge was demolised in the early 1960s to allow overhead wires from the Liverpool direction and the spur to Manchester currently has the masts in place, but not yet wired. The platforms still survive. See 'The Wigan Branch Railway' by Dennis Sweeney, Triangle Publishing, 2008 ISBN 978 9550030 35.

[PGH]

More photos:

 

 

 

LMS 1659 an ex Midland Railway Johnson Class 1 0-6-0T probably still in a rather worn MR livery and with a comparison of LMS/MR wagon livery in the background.

 

 

 

LMS 14418 "BEN MHEADHOIN" an ex Highland Railway 'Large Ben' 4-4-0 with its original 6 wheel tender replaced by a 8 wheel tender originally fitted to an 0-6-0.  I assume the device on the cab side is a single line tablet catching apparatus.  It is at the head of a mixed train comprising an open wagon covered by a tarpaulin, a 6-wheel van with end doors and ventilated sides, another two or possibly three open wagons also covered by tarpaulins, a couple of full brakes or parcel vans - the first a bogie and the second possibly 6-wheel, followed by a number of coaches.  In the distance is a steel lattice footbridge followed by a lattice girder overbridge.  There is a small shelter on the near platform but the main building is on the far side - the roof and chimneys can be seen above the train behind the near signal post.  The roof of a signal cabin can be seen above the loco tender.  Note the two sidings in the foreground laid with flat bottom rail spiked directly to the sleepers.

 

I think this is Georgemas Junction on the Far North Line.  Comparing the scene with photos I took there in 1988 and allowing for the passage of time just about everything fits, down to the small plate (or whatever) fixed to the lattice in the centre of the footbridge.  The overbridge beyond has been replaced by a new reinforced concrete structure.  The only curious thing is the signal in the foreground, which I thought could be a junction signal although it does have lower 'S' (shunt ?) arms.  However the junction for the Thurso line is further back beyond the signal cabin for which the bracket signal in the distance presumably applies.

[petethemole]

On enlargement, the LMS wagon on the left appears to have had the LMS repainted over existing paint. The M of MR has been painted over in two shades of grey as a base for the L, and the R has been painted over in dark grey. The M of LMS is painted on the existing MR grey on the door. Some of the ironwork appears to have been retouched in the dark grey.

Pete

[Armchair Modeller]

Georgemas definitely seems likely. The signals would surely be for the main line and the loop behind the platform, rather than a junction signal?

 

The flat-bottomed rail in the foreground is intriguing. I was once assured by a Highland expert that the HR never used flat-bottomed track - except on some minor lines it worked but did not own.

[Blandford1969]

fantastic images, and due to the area incredibly rare

[PGH]

The final four photos:

 

 

NER 1020 a BTP 0-4-4T on an auto train with coaches front and rear.  It appears to be at a fairly major station.

 

 

 

LNER 1242 an ex North Eastern R1 class 4-4-0 with early LNER lettering including the '&'.  The building behind visible on the right appears to be a loco shed.  Partly visible behind the tender is a large tank loco with a trailing bogie (NER D/LNER H1 Class 4-4-4T perhaps ?), beyond another loco with its drain cocks open and yet another behind the row of three lamps, so presumably the location is a loco depot.

 

 

 

LNER 3986 an ex Great Northern C1 (LNER C2) Class. 

 

 

 

Finally a real mystery.  I assume that the proximity of this rather neglected looking building to the track would indicate some former railway use. 

Any ideas as to what it was and where it was ?

[coachmann]

The North Eastern coach attached to the NER 0-4-4T shows that such vehicles were not a spick and span in pre-grouping and early grouping days as we might lead ourselves to believe. There looks to be part of a gas tank wagon in the foreground, used to fuel carraiges with gas lighting.

[Fat Controller]

I'd suggest the trackside building was either a dormitory (for engine crew on lodging turns) or even housing for railway workers and their families. For those who who doubt the latter would be so close to the trackside, I'd suggest a look at the cottages (now modernised, and sold, doubtless advertised as having 'period charm', on the Up side at Severn Tunnel Junction. When Undy Yard still functioned, I recollect there was only a narrow roadway between their front doors and the line.

[PhilJ W]

The first 'wagon' behind 14418 looks more like a carriage truck than an ordinary wagon going by the wheelbase/size of wheels. I think that this is probably a 'perishables' train. Given the mixed nature of the stock and the way in which the wagons are covered I would suggest that it is carrying fish.

[bigd]

Could the neglected building be the remains of Parkside station?

It is less than half a mile from the Lowton picture posted earlier.

It does look like the building here http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/p/parkside/index10.shtml

[Shadow]

Could the neglected building be the remains of Parkside station?

It is less than half a mile from the Lowton picture posted earlier.

It does look like the building here http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/p/parkside/index10.shtml

 

Looks correct. The second photo down, signal matches, telegraph pool matches, signal box matches, steps down with post at top. Look like Parkside.

[LMS2968]

I'll go with that too. This (second) Parkside station was some distance from the A573 Parkside Lane and accessed by a footpath along the top of the cutting, which is still there. The tracks on the left are those from Lowton Jct in the photo of Superheater Tank 6956.

[DVLR Dave]

The coaling Stage to  the rear of 1242 is very North Eastern Railway, being similar to that at Malton, with a steam crane and lamps, the shed also has similarities to the one at Malton, but the track layout , and the position of the chimney on the shed do not match the (somewhat later) photos that I have. There were, however factories behind Malton shed, and the large chimneys behind the shed could be their chimneys....but that doesn't explain the R1 with a full tender, not a loco you would expect to find at Malton.

[Shadow]

Just read on another site that the "L&NER" style naming was only valid for a few months in 1923.

 

March 1923 L.&N.E.R.   ( Full stops )

May 1923   L&NER       ( No full stops )

June 1923  LNER        ( No '&' )

 

If this is true, then D21 1242 was photographed around May/June 1923.